- May 3, 2007
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and McDonald at the swans is decent too.
Opinion Does WA underperform in producing AFL talent?
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Apologies. He was raised in Country WA, and I assumed he played his rep footy here too.
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Father Kevin Kropinyeri is a Croweater, his deceased mother was a Sandgroper, Kosi was born and raised in Boulder WA.
Shifted to SA as a 15 year old to live with his Uncle Byron to further his schooling and footy.I think it's fair enough to claim him as a Sandgroper.
Mundy and Gaff are both from VIC
Fair enough. Dave was probably lucky to make the bench anyway.
It will work in WA and be more viable than GC, GWS & tassie. Eagles have a huge waiting list & market North of the River to tap into. Both clubs are raking in the cash, if you add a third club to generate money that goes back into junior footy, you will then have more development.
Name it Perth & you'll even have local based fans of Vic teams that decide to bite the bullet and get in on the ground floor rather than watching maybe 0-2 games live a year of their team.
Taylor
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- #32
The Western Australian Football Commission doesn't want a third WA team. The WAFC didn't want Fremantle either and I can see why, it's double the cost to scoop very few extra fans into the AFL system and the AFL aren't interested in paying for that, they just wanted West Coast to not have access to all the WA players seeking to return home and their sponsors looking after the players outside of football.
A third one is just another $25,000,000 to extract from a system that won't be adding many new AFL eyeballs at all. Freo haven't ever had a full stadium worth of members, WC does but that's a lot of rusted on - what WC do have is the casual support of about 70% of the population here, similar to Adelaide in that regard. They were there first, they established households and family traditions and then the expansion side came in with a focused geography and struggled for membership financial support. I believe there is about $20,000,000 difference in membership revenue between Fremantle and St Kilda. There is already an open opportunity for those people not currently involved to do so - but they are sitting on their money. I don't think a new club will change that.
Now that WC aren't doing so well the AFL discussion has dropped right off, the casual fans don't have an interest in their team anymore. The chit chat in public has disappeared and they don't want to talk footy at all now that their side isn't on top and the other side isn't doing so poorly.
Given how much WC fund the WAFL and the development pathways included, to the tune of multiple millions a year, they should probably get to prelist a WAFL talent every year before the draft. Fremantle pay millions in royalities to fund that system too, but not to the same degree - so they should get second pick. Perhaps whichever WA team is the lowest on the ladder gets first choice of prelisted WA talent and the other gets the second prelist pick.
A third one is just another $25,000,000 to extract from a system that won't be adding many new AFL eyeballs at all. Freo haven't ever had a full stadium worth of members, WC does but that's a lot of rusted on - what WC do have is the casual support of about 70% of the population here, similar to Adelaide in that regard. They were there first, they established households and family traditions and then the expansion side came in with a focused geography and struggled for membership financial support. I believe there is about $20,000,000 difference in membership revenue between Fremantle and St Kilda. There is already an open opportunity for those people not currently involved to do so - but they are sitting on their money. I don't think a new club will change that.
Now that WC aren't doing so well the AFL discussion has dropped right off, the casual fans don't have an interest in their team anymore. The chit chat in public has disappeared and they don't want to talk footy at all now that their side isn't on top and the other side isn't doing so poorly.
Given how much WC fund the WAFL and the development pathways included, to the tune of multiple millions a year, they should probably get to prelist a WAFL talent every year before the draft. Fremantle pay millions in royalities to fund that system too, but not to the same degree - so they should get second pick. Perhaps whichever WA team is the lowest on the ladder gets first choice of prelisted WA talent and the other gets the second prelist pick.
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Without being bothered to look too far into it, wa seems to produce far more key position players than most other states.
There's always some highly rated talls from wa each draft
There's always some highly rated talls from wa each draft
In West Australia, if you're too tall to work in the mines you play football.
Fairly simple explanation.
- May 3, 2007
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Its off topic...
But in the right situation, South Australia can Produce a 3rd SA side in the AFL.
Its where. East side unlikely. Unless its south East to Attract the Norwood and Sturt and south adelaide fans. North East, well maybe unless you want a following with Norwood, Centrals and North Adelaide.
Western Suburbs: Port Adelaide Magpies are there. But if they dislike Port then West Adelaide, Woodville west torrens and Glenelg (south west) can be converted.
Southern Areas: It could work. Marion has 90-100,000 people living there, its also close to Glenelg oval too. South Adelaide and Sturt are both in the southern areas and produce local talent.
Northern Suburbs. Yes I know North Adelaide play at Prospect oval (I would of loved them to have a gather round game this year). Centrals has the Northern Areas of support. Elizabeth have 100-150,000 people there. You also have Salisbury and Gawler too.
To be honest, A southern Suburb side would work. Training at either Unley oval (Sturts home ground) is only a couple of kms from the City. Glenelg oval is only 5 or 6 kms away as well
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I would like to a see north Melbourne move here. Amalgamate with the Perth demons.
The Perth kangaroo
..
Wa has a lot of kanga supporters, they would get a lot of new supporters plus Perth demon supporters.
The population is there and that stadium needs to be used more.
And more cash for colts.
The Perth kangaroo
.. Wa has a lot of kanga supporters, they would get a lot of new supporters plus Perth demon supporters.
The population is there and that stadium needs to be used more.
And more cash for colts.
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- #37
The only thing is that so much time has passed since the Crows have come in that the majority of Norwood, Sturt supporters have already moved into supporting the Crows first, and their SANFL side second.
I could not imagine in any world where the old Norwood, Sturt, Glenelg supporters would revert back from the Crow. The Crows are too ingrained into SA sporting culture.
Then you would have to rely on creating a whole new supporter group from within SA, which would be just too hard.
Maybe if the AFL had of brought in three teams within quick succession, The Crows, Port and a Norwood/Sturt composition side it might have worked, but not now.
- Thread starter
- #38
It's actually interesting that some states produce certain types of players. For a long while SA produced alot of good smaller mods just when the AFL decided that you needed to be 6 foot 3 to play in the midfield.
Was looking into this before finding the thread and I think the short answer is yes. Definitely appears to be some weaknesses in development at junior levels.
The reason for it would be pretty complex:
1) Population distribution and funding the to the regional areas would be expensive.
2) Quality of leagues outside Perth and exposure to quality development programs prior to playing WAFL.
3) The funding system is complex in WA and AFL more focused on NSW/QLD.
4) Cost of scouting and relocating players would be more expensive for everyone except WA teams.
5) Higher perceived risk of go home factor.
6) $60k draft contract vs $100k mine apprenticeship with every other week off.
The talent is definitely there - in the last 15yrs 33% of Brownlows won by and 2 of the top 5 career goalkickers are sandgropers. That’s a lot better than what SA has produced despite similar numbers of players.
I feel it is an opportunity that the WA sides in particular should be tapping into more. Fixing the funding and improving development needs to be figured out.
The reason for it would be pretty complex:
1) Population distribution and funding the to the regional areas would be expensive.
2) Quality of leagues outside Perth and exposure to quality development programs prior to playing WAFL.
3) The funding system is complex in WA and AFL more focused on NSW/QLD.
4) Cost of scouting and relocating players would be more expensive for everyone except WA teams.
5) Higher perceived risk of go home factor.
6) $60k draft contract vs $100k mine apprenticeship with every other week off.
The talent is definitely there - in the last 15yrs 33% of Brownlows won by and 2 of the top 5 career goalkickers are sandgropers. That’s a lot better than what SA has produced despite similar numbers of players.
I feel it is an opportunity that the WA sides in particular should be tapping into more. Fixing the funding and improving development needs to be figured out.
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You've ignored the fact that the WA side is miles better than anything SA could put together which has been the case for as far back as I can remember.
In what time period?
I think in the last 3 years maybe, in the last 20 years they have been as good as anywhere.
Brownlows- Cripps Fyfe x 2 Priddis Cousins Mitchell
Coleman Medalists- Franklin 4 Kennedy 2
Star players at clubs in last 20 years from WA
Adelaide- Eddie Betts star of the club
Brisbane- Daniel Rich 250 games all australian C Cameron Star
Carlton- Cripps and Betts (captain brownlow best small forward conversation ever.)
Collingwood- Mitchell (played 15-18 in wa which are crucial years brownlow medal)
Essendon- Myers had a very good career at the dons at one stage had close to 10 players playing from WA off the top of my head Myers Hooker Jetta Gumbelton Kommer Lee Colyer.
Fremantle- Fyfe Brownlow x2 at one stage the best in the AFL. At the moment Luke Jackson is a top pick that has had a great start for his career.
Geelong-Harry Taylor Mitch Duncan has been a star for geelong for 10-15 years, jordan clark was a good pick from wa in recent times that ended up going home.
Gold Coast- David Swallow has been the #1 pick and the rock of gold coast.
GWS- Coniglio similar to swallow a great career so far also a top 3 pick from memory.
Hawthorn- Stratton- Captain and 3x premiership player as mature pick B Hill- very good player at hawks.
Kangaroos- Wells - a top pick that was a success at north.
Melbourne- Brayshaw top 3 brownlow premiership player.
Port- Powell Pepper atm he is playing like a star theres probably been better players in the last 20 but he looks to be building into a star.
Richmond- Rance one of the best players in the last 20 years full stop. Bolton a star of the comp.
St Kilda-
Sydney- Franklin- Best forward in last 30 years number 4 in goal kicking all time, best player taken in the last 20 years.
West Coast- Priddis Cousins brownlows, Nic Nat Mcgovern huge careers.
West Dogs- Naughton English Johannisen- Norm Smith and Star forward and Ruckmen
Best Team of last 20 years drafted from WA
Rich Rance Stratton
Mcgovern Taylor Duncan
Wells Mitchell Swallow
Bolton Kennedy Fyfe
Betts Franklin Le Cras
Sandilands Priddis Cripps
Best of Current players
Rich Barrass Baker
Mcgovern S Taylor Duncan
Swallow Coniglio Bolton
Fyfe Naughton SPP
C Cameron Allen Walters
English Cripps Warner
overall a great output by WA in my opinion.
I think in the last 3 years maybe, in the last 20 years they have been as good as anywhere.
Brownlows- Cripps Fyfe x 2 Priddis Cousins Mitchell
Coleman Medalists- Franklin 4 Kennedy 2
Star players at clubs in last 20 years from WA
Adelaide- Eddie Betts star of the club
Brisbane- Daniel Rich 250 games all australian C Cameron Star
Carlton- Cripps and Betts (captain brownlow best small forward conversation ever.)
Collingwood- Mitchell (played 15-18 in wa which are crucial years brownlow medal)
Essendon- Myers had a very good career at the dons at one stage had close to 10 players playing from WA off the top of my head Myers Hooker Jetta Gumbelton Kommer Lee Colyer.
Fremantle- Fyfe Brownlow x2 at one stage the best in the AFL. At the moment Luke Jackson is a top pick that has had a great start for his career.
Geelong-Harry Taylor Mitch Duncan has been a star for geelong for 10-15 years, jordan clark was a good pick from wa in recent times that ended up going home.
Gold Coast- David Swallow has been the #1 pick and the rock of gold coast.
GWS- Coniglio similar to swallow a great career so far also a top 3 pick from memory.
Hawthorn- Stratton- Captain and 3x premiership player as mature pick B Hill- very good player at hawks.
Kangaroos- Wells - a top pick that was a success at north.
Melbourne- Brayshaw top 3 brownlow premiership player.
Port- Powell Pepper atm he is playing like a star theres probably been better players in the last 20 but he looks to be building into a star.
Richmond- Rance one of the best players in the last 20 years full stop. Bolton a star of the comp.
St Kilda-
Sydney- Franklin- Best forward in last 30 years number 4 in goal kicking all time, best player taken in the last 20 years.
West Coast- Priddis Cousins brownlows, Nic Nat Mcgovern huge careers.
West Dogs- Naughton English Johannisen- Norm Smith and Star forward and Ruckmen
Best Team of last 20 years drafted from WA
Rich Rance Stratton
Mcgovern Taylor Duncan
Wells Mitchell Swallow
Bolton Kennedy Fyfe
Betts Franklin Le Cras
Sandilands Priddis Cripps
Best of Current players
Rich Barrass Baker
Mcgovern S Taylor Duncan
Swallow Coniglio Bolton
Fyfe Naughton SPP
C Cameron Allen Walters
English Cripps Warner
overall a great output by WA in my opinion.
- Thread starter
- #43
It's the raw numbers, and the average performance at National level.
It's not a knock on WA football, it's that I think there is untapped potential in WA that isn't getting exposed.
My main thought is that its a funding and development issue.
The same somewhat in SA as well, but WA has a way bigger population than SA.
If the AFL matched its funding of Vic jrs on a prorated basis, that would be a start.
It’s been great to see south aus latest talent for sure, but they had some lean years so it’s only natural, in the future next 5-10 years I think WA has undoubtedly the best ruckman and maybe the best KPF prospect atm as well, English and Allen. Taylor is also probably one of the best young KPD as well. Bolton is a Star and will be for the next 5 years as wel.It’s been quite lean in terms of quality on ballers last few years though, only Warner that I can think of, be interesting to see if players like Erasmus Robertson Ginbey turn into these types of players.
Thinking back it seems as though between 2008-2015 area there were a lot of top 3 picks from West Aus but not many the last 5 years.
I can think off the top of my head Coniglio Swallow Martin Natanui Omeara S Hill Bennell
Jackson is the only top 3 pick since 2014 I think.
Sure, and it may change but the WA side for a while has been significantly better than SA's and almost to a point where it would challenge a Vic side.
And I should note I'm from SA so I'm not presenting an anti-SA viewpoint.
Your point was more about numbers of draftees not quality so it's valid nonetheless. But I do think for a while there has been a distinct lack or lack of consistent production of A-graders out of SA.
Obviously JHF as expected looks great (ceiling hard to determine as he was developed physically already when entering the AFL) and Phillipou arguably looks even better, your Ben Hart clone looks great and quite a few others so as you say it may be swining back in SA's favour (v WA). Would be for the first time since the mid to late 90's I reckon when the SA side was better (on paper). It's not there yet though and it probably should't be due to the population disparity.
- Oct 31, 2016
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Given WA has about 12% of afl players, would expect a team to be better then most premiership line ups.
Colts are a bit sub-standard compared to other under 18s comps but there's zero incentive for the clubs to properly invest in them, just to see the top prospects go elsewhere whilst there's clubs over East who can pretty much freely pick their best prospects.
SEN’s 2022 South Australia State of Origin team
Kane Cornes and Andrew Hayes have made their selections.
www.sen.com.au
SEN’s 2022 Western Australia State of Origin team
Scott Cummings and Tim Gossage have named their team.
www.sen.com.au
There would be a few changes to both sides though I'd imagine now. But that was what SEN put together last year.
- Thread starter
- #50
Yeah, SA went through a really lean period. We had alot of undersized mids, no really tall talent, and a heap of half back flankers.
I think the SANFL has really put more into the development.
There is an issue of, "why should we bother?" with both SANFL and WAFL league teams. Why should they spent their own funds, when they are all living off the smell of an oily rag, to develop talent in their zones, when the reality is the really good talent will never play for them. These clubs now rely more on recruiting mature talent than bringing up the local kids like the old days.
The AFL has taken on the role of developing Vic kids, because they know that the VFL clubs won't do a good job at it. Why should SA and WA be any different?
In the coming years SA will put a good state team together.
The big thing for me is that with the population difference between WA and SA, we should be seeing two times the amount of talent and draftees coming out of there vs SA.
As a parochial South Australian, I want to see as many SA kids playing at the highest level, and I want to see more SA kids on the Crows list. I would assume that WA peeps would feel that same way about WA kids.
So, what needs to be done to get that result?
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