List Mgmt. Draft Discussion 2016

[Barrels]

Looks likely between Bolton , Pepper Powell or Cox with our pick 23 .
Who from those three is more likely to play our style of footy ?

Not so much about that, more about what we want out of them now that we're a ways along the rebuild.

IMO it works out somewhat like this;

1. Sam POWELL-PEPPER: most likely to play the aggressive 'Saints Footy'-type style we like and certainly the best 'plug-and-play' prospect, but is the poorest by foot of the three and still needs to work on his consistency and decision making.

Is arguably the least required with our additions of Steele and Stevens, the improvement of Ross and Acres and the presence of Armitage and Dunstan. Adds a point of difference to that lot however with his pace.

List comparison: Maverick Weller

2. Shai BOLTON: the most dynamic of the trio with his dash and agility, but can be a bit laconic and sloppy with his disposal when he's 'off'.

Likely to start as a small forward like Lonie and Gresham, and like them is smaller than would be preferable, but he absolutely puts in a solid shift with respect to forward pressure.

List comparison: Jack Lonie

3. Cedric COX: could be absolutely anything. Still bothered by the pace of the game a bit, but that's attributable to being a latecomer to the elite system.

At this stage he's still very raw and only shows flashes of what he could become, but the guts to move from Halls Creek to Camperdown to have a genuine crack at footy can't be undervalued and he's got buckets of class.

Has the most upside, but also the biggest bust potential.

List comparison: Shane Savage

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Its easy just expect something to happen that you weren't expecting. If you are expecting something to happen it probably won't.
Like if the Veronica's were to walk into the draft wearing glitter body paint and carry Gill out to have their way with him.
That would have been unexpected. But now that i've mentioned it , its expected so it probably won't happen.

I was taking that all in untill i got to the Veronicas body paint bit.
And then it all went

 

[hayes]

post by jaxons » Thu 24 Nov 2016 9:26am
First bit I will give is let's hope North don't take Florent with their first pick.
It is a long shot but he may sneak through if Kangas take a slider from the top 10.

 

[Fyfe2Shenton]

Exactly, the Kangaroos might take Brodie or Scrimshaw if they slide.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Did anyone in the media have us getting Gresh last year, or Dunstan and Acres, or D-Mac? I remember they all had us linked to Mason Wood in 2012 as well, only for us to pass on him 3 times!

I rate Twomey's phantom quite strongly.

Last year he successfully picked the top 15, his positions were within 2 places of where they were actually drafted, successfully naming 6 in the exact position. I think that's about as good as you get in a Phantom.

The remainder of his first round was a lot more variable though.
He didn't expect Himmelberg, Doedee, Lovell or Cunningham to go first round.
He was thereabouts ( within 4 draft positions ) for Gresham , Burton, Fiorini, McKay, Tucker and Keays.
He expected Balic, Collins and Hibberd to be in the first round.

He picked Gresh to go the pick after StKilda's, while Knightmare picked him a few picks after. So its not like Gresh was not on the radar round our pick.

 

[dougiemac]

Its easy just expect something to happen that you weren't expecting. If you are expecting something to happen it probably won't.
Like if the Veronica's were to walk into the draft wearing glitter body paint and carry Gill out to have their way with him.
That would have been unexpected. But now that i've mentioned it , its expected so it probably won't happen.

It's a quote from Oscar Wilde, who would no doubt have been a Saints supporter.

 

[crasha301]

I'd be very happy with Zac fisher, to have him and gresh at the feet of acres, steele, fyfe ect would be amazing.

Only negative is his hight but if you're good enough you're tall enough.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I was taking that all in untill i got to the Veronicas body paint bit.
And then it all went
View attachment 312861

They were on the Aria awards. It was sort of more scary than sexy.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's a quote from Oscar Wilde, who would no doubt have been a Saints supporter.

His Majesty is Like Bats Piss.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

He does drugs, his dad is a hells angel, he likes Donald Trump, he's responsible for Justin Beiber getting a recording contract.

ammidoinitright?

 

[pebblesofsand]

Not so much about that, more about what we want out of them now that we're a ways along the rebuild.

IMO it works out somewhat like this;

1. Sam POWELL-PEPPER: most likely to play the aggressive 'Saints Footy'-type style we like and certainly the best 'plug-and-play' prospect, but is the poorest by foot of the three and still needs to work on his consistency and decision making.

Is arguably the least required with our additions of Steele and Stevens, the improvement of Ross and Acres and the presence of Armitage and Dunstan. Adds a point of difference to that lot however with his pace.

List comparison: Maverick Weller

2. Shai BOLTON: the most dynamic of the trio with his dash and agility, but can be a bit laconic and sloppy with his disposal when he's 'off'.

Likely to start as a small forward like Lonie and Gresham, and like them is smaller than would be preferable, but he absolutely puts in a solid shift with respect to forward pressure.

List comparison: Jack Lonie

3. Cedric COX: could be absolutely anything. Still bothered by the pace of the game a bit, but that's attributable to being a latecomer to the elite system.

At this stage he's still very raw and only shows flashes of what he could become, but the guts to move from Halls Creek to Camperdown to have a genuine crack at footy can't be undervalued and he's got buckets of class.

Has the most upside, but also the biggest bust potential.

List comparison: Shane Savage

That's the really intriguing thing about this draft from a Saints perspective - the evenness of the draft after the top 10 which is then complicated by our first pick being 23.

If we were talking pick 10 - you would just say - "best available" - done deal but pick 23 seems to me to be more into the "best for our needs" territory and that opens up so many options.

Need
inside grunt - Powell-Pepper

Outside run and flair - Shai Bolton

speculative star - Cedric Cox

versatile tall - Ridley/Himmelberg

third defender - Rotham/B Cox

Forward - Battle

the list goes on and on!!!

 

[gringo2011]

Not so much about that, more about what we want out of them now that we're a ways along the rebuild.

IMO it works out somewhat like this;

1. Sam POWELL-PEPPER: most likely to play the aggressive 'Saints Footy'-type style we like and certainly the best 'plug-and-play' prospect, but is the poorest by foot of the three and still needs to work on his consistency and decision making.

Is arguably the least required with our additions of Steele and Stevens, the improvement of Ross and Acres and the presence of Armitage and Dunstan. Adds a point of difference to that lot however with his pace.

List comparison: Maverick Weller

2. Shai BOLTON: the most dynamic of the trio with his dash and agility, but can be a bit laconic and sloppy with his disposal when he's 'off'.

Likely to start as a small forward like Lonie and Gresham, and like them is smaller than would be preferable, but he absolutely puts in a solid shift with respect to forward pressure.

List comparison: Jack Lonie

3. Cedric COX: could be absolutely anything. Still bothered by the pace of the game a bit, but that's attributable to being a latecomer to the elite system.

At this stage he's still very raw and only shows flashes of what he could become, but the guts to move from Halls Creek to Camperdown to have a genuine crack at footy can't be undervalued and he's got buckets of class.

Has the most upside, but also the biggest bust potential.

List comparison: Shane Savage

Yeah I was a huge Shai Bolton fan until the all star game, he was flat and looked lazy and disinterested. I know he's got better in him but he looked like he could be a bit likely to back off if your team aren't front running. SPP was the opposite and showed he'd be a play maker and not someone who stands by and watches the game go past.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That's the really intriguing thing about this draft from a Saints perspective - the evenness of the draft after the top 10 which is then complicated by our first pick being 23.

If we were talking pick 10 - you would just say - "best available" - done deal but pick 23 seems to me to be more into the "best for our needs" territory and that opens up so many options.

Need
inside grunt - Powell-Pepper

Outside run and flair - Shai Bolton

speculative star - Cedric Cox

versatile tall - Ridley/Himmelberg

third defender - Rotham/B Cox

Forward - Battle

the list goes on and on!!!

Is that being a bit one dimensional regarding Powell-Pepper though. He's also been described as being able to play line-breaking off the backline, and as a forward.
Has he got an outside game?

Here is Quigley's write up.
_______________________________________

Lets deal with the two big perceived negatives first. The first is his kicking. I think a lot of the negativity about his kicking this year probably comes from game against Metro where he could not hit the side of a barn. He missed target after target that day. I acknowledge people should be worried by that game but for me that is an anomoly and is not reflective of how far he has come. He was very raw last year with his kicking and I think he has made great progress over the last 12 months ironing out the flaws. Now I think he has a well-balanced, uncomplicated kicking style that generally works well. There are still off days but there has been definite improvement and that was very evident in the All Star game where I thought his kicking looked very tidy. There is still room to improve but he is trending in the right direction and he is already better than most appreciate. I think the big weakness with his disposals is not with his kicking but with his handballing. He is very untidy by hand and it is something which still needs a lot of work. The kid will work though and I think he gets there.

The bigger issue for me is the simple fact that he does not find enough of the ball. For someone with his physical gifts he should find more of the ball. At the Champs he only averaged about 15 disposals a game and it was not like he was stuck in a pocket. He was on a flank mostly with significant time onball and on the wing. He improved on that a bit in the Colts and the WAFL but not enough to give me comfort that his feel for where to run to receive has gotten good enough. Most of his disposals are hard won and he does not get out and link up enough or find space for the cheap and easy possessions. There is going to need to be a fair bit or work done on his running patterns but if they can teach Tom Bell where to run I am sure SPP can be taught as well.

What SPP does better than anyone else in this draft is hit a pack at pace and come away with the ball. He is a big unit (already 90kgs) and opponents are reluctant to get between him and the ball. He is powerful, well balanced and has explosive pace and that makes him difficult to contain when he gets it. He also has a devastating sidestep which is going to be as effective at AFL level as it is at junior level. It is a big sidestep and he executes at pace which makes him very difficult to tackle even if he was not as big as he is. Unless you get your shoulder behind the tackle he will just brush through and come out the other side. Teams are going to want to get him the ball more than he is now as he can turn teams around. He might not have fantastic top end speed but he is not slow and he has recorded a 15.5 beep previously (he only managed 14.5 at the Combine where I think he was carrying a bit of extra poundage).

Speaking of the Combine, he was one of the stars there and certainly reminded teams of what he can do. In addition to the beep test he was also top 10 in the agility test with an 8.24 which is excellent for such a bulky guy. His 10m 28sec in the 3km was good and 3.00 for the 20m very solid. I am generally not the biggest fan of the skills test but it is worth mentioning that SPP lead the way in the goal kicking test with a perfect score and was in the top 10 in the clean hands. The one negative he had for the weekend was the repeat sprint which was quite poor for some reason. Overall it is hard not to be impressed with his performance given how many of those who played the week before in the All Star game, like he did, did not have good performances at the Combine.

Whether SPP succeeds at AFL level could very well come down to where he plays. If he is played in defence I think he could very well flop. In defence he tightens up with his kicking and turns it over a lot. He also tends to curb his natural attacking game and gets too conservative. Where he needs to be played is on a forward flank with some time on the wing. He is not the best mark of the ball but with the ball in hands he will attack a defence and can find a seam. He is a pretty good kick of the ball into 50 and can create opportunities. He has good penetration on his kicks and can kick them from outside 50 if needed. With the ball on the ground I think he has pretty clean hands (maybe not elite but good for a forward) and he can finish. He has been a consistent goal kicker in the west this year. He is particularly dangerous in contested situations up forward as he can use his big body to clear the way and create opportunities and his attack on the ball makes things happen.

SPP might be the best tackler in the draft this year. He tackles hard and often and opponents know when he is about and this can make things happen as they make sure they get it away quickly. To finish the year SPP had 7 tackles in the Colts GF and another 5 in the All Star game. He influences games with his defensive work and coaches will like that from a forward / midfielder. Speaking of the All Star game, I thought he was very influential in that one and looked like one of the better prospects out there. He again only managed 18 disposals but he was certainly an impact player. He is likely to start his career as an impact player off the forward flank but hopefully he learns to find more of it and he moves into the midfield. If he learns to find more of the ball he could be a very important player for a team.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Article on Essendon and their picks in today's HUN and they have a quote on what they're looking for with each of their picks and Dodo said they have a couple in the mix for pick 20 that they had in their top 5 early in the year. So who would they be? I'm guessing one is Marshall. Anyone else coming to mind for anyone?

 

[crasha301]

Article on Essendon and their picks in today's HUN and they have a quote on what they're looking for with each of their picks and Dodo said they have a couple in the mix for pick 20 that they had in their top 5 early in the year. So who would they be? I'm guessing one is Marshall. Anyone else coming to mind for anyone?

SPP, was spoken about as a top 8.

 

[gringo2011]

Is that being a bit one dimensional regarding Powell-Pepper though. He's also been described as being able to play line-breaking off the backline, and as a forward.
Has he got an outside game?

Here is Quigley's write up.
_______________________________________

Lets deal with the two big perceived negatives first. The first is his kicking. I think a lot of the negativity about his kicking this year probably comes from game against Metro where he could not hit the side of a barn. He missed target after target that day. I acknowledge people should be worried by that game but for me that is an anomoly and is not reflective of how far he has come. He was very raw last year with his kicking and I think he has made great progress over the last 12 months ironing out the flaws. Now I think he has a well-balanced, uncomplicated kicking style that generally works well. There are still off days but there has been definite improvement and that was very evident in the All Star game where I thought his kicking looked very tidy. There is still room to improve but he is trending in the right direction and he is already better than most appreciate. I think the big weakness with his disposals is not with his kicking but with his handballing. He is very untidy by hand and it is something which still needs a lot of work. The kid will work though and I think he gets there.

The bigger issue for me is the simple fact that he does not find enough of the ball. For someone with his physical gifts he should find more of the ball. At the Champs he only averaged about 15 disposals a game and it was not like he was stuck in a pocket. He was on a flank mostly with significant time onball and on the wing. He improved on that a bit in the Colts and the WAFL but not enough to give me comfort that his feel for where to run to receive has gotten good enough. Most of his disposals are hard won and he does not get out and link up enough or find space for the cheap and easy possessions. There is going to need to be a fair bit or work done on his running patterns but if they can teach Tom Bell where to run I am sure SPP can be taught as well.

What SPP does better than anyone else in this draft is hit a pack at pace and come away with the ball. He is a big unit (already 90kgs) and opponents are reluctant to get between him and the ball. He is powerful, well balanced and has explosive pace and that makes him difficult to contain when he gets it. He also has a devastating sidestep which is going to be as effective at AFL level as it is at junior level. It is a big sidestep and he executes at pace which makes him very difficult to tackle even if he was not as big as he is. Unless you get your shoulder behind the tackle he will just brush through and come out the other side. Teams are going to want to get him the ball more than he is now as he can turn teams around. He might not have fantastic top end speed but he is not slow and he has recorded a 15.5 beep previously (he only managed 14.5 at the Combine where I think he was carrying a bit of extra poundage).

Speaking of the Combine, he was one of the stars there and certainly reminded teams of what he can do. In addition to the beep test he was also top 10 in the agility test with an 8.24 which is excellent for such a bulky guy. His 10m 28sec in the 3km was good and 3.00 for the 20m very solid. I am generally not the biggest fan of the skills test but it is worth mentioning that SPP lead the way in the goal kicking test with a perfect score and was in the top 10 in the clean hands. The one negative he had for the weekend was the repeat sprint which was quite poor for some reason. Overall it is hard not to be impressed with his performance given how many of those who played the week before in the All Star game, like he did, did not have good performances at the Combine.

Whether SPP succeeds at AFL level could very well come down to where he plays. If he is played in defence I think he could very well flop. In defence he tightens up with his kicking and turns it over a lot. He also tends to curb his natural attacking game and gets too conservative. Where he needs to be played is on a forward flank with some time on the wing. He is not the best mark of the ball but with the ball in hands he will attack a defence and can find a seam. He is a pretty good kick of the ball into 50 and can create opportunities. He has good penetration on his kicks and can kick them from outside 50 if needed. With the ball on the ground I think he has pretty clean hands (maybe not elite but good for a forward) and he can finish. He has been a consistent goal kicker in the west this year. He is particularly dangerous in contested situations up forward as he can use his big body to clear the way and create opportunities and his attack on the ball makes things happen.

SPP might be the best tackler in the draft this year. He tackles hard and often and opponents know when he is about and this can make things happen as they make sure they get it away quickly. To finish the year SPP had 7 tackles in the Colts GF and another 5 in the All Star game. He influences games with his defensive work and coaches will like that from a forward / midfielder. Speaking of the All Star game, I thought he was very influential in that one and looked like one of the better prospects out there. He again only managed 18 disposals but he was certainly an impact player. He is likely to start his career as an impact player off the forward flank but hopefully he learns to find more of it and he moves into the midfield. If he learns to find more of the ball he could be a very important player for a team.

I agree, he looks like one of those guys who loves to create the tempo around him like Milne etc. He seems to love the game and makes stuff happen around him. If they chuck those types back they often seem to lose the will to play AFL. I'm not worried about his kicking he seems to kick like a mule but not actually create turn overs particularly. I watch Fyfe and think he doesn't deserve to be so good because he's a rough kick as is Dangerfield but they play first at the ball footy and make good stuff happen regardless. Players become conscious of them and they tend to set the tempo. I'm not saying he's at their level but he's got something very nice about him that's hard to work out exactly what it is. He seems to have a bit more of the intangible X factor stuff than some around his expected draft range.

 

[gringo2011]

SPP, was spoken about as a top 8.

I think that might have been Petrevski-Seton that was top 8, I would be surprised if he's been in too many top 10s SPP. He's more that 10 to 25 type. Battle is probably more the type they would like. Perhaps someone with some rebound run for life post Kelly.

 

[crasha301]

I think that might have been Petrevski-Seton that was top 8, I would be surprised if he's been in too many top 10s SPP. He's more that 10 to 25 type. Battle is probably more the type they would like. Perhaps someone with some rebound run for life post Kelly.

SPS was pick 1 at the start of the year

 

[pebblesofsand]

Is that being a bit one dimensional regarding Powell-Pepper though. He's also been described as being able to play line-breaking off the backline, and as a forward.
Has he got an outside game?

Here is Quigley's write up.
_______________________________________

Lets deal with the two big perceived negatives first. The first is his kicking. I think a lot of the negativity about his kicking this year probably comes from game against Metro where he could not hit the side of a barn. He missed target after target that day. I acknowledge people should be worried by that game but for me that is an anomoly and is not reflective of how far he has come. He was very raw last year with his kicking and I think he has made great progress over the last 12 months ironing out the flaws. Now I think he has a well-balanced, uncomplicated kicking style that generally works well. There are still off days but there has been definite improvement and that was very evident in the All Star game where I thought his kicking looked very tidy. There is still room to improve but he is trending in the right direction and he is already better than most appreciate. I think the big weakness with his disposals is not with his kicking but with his handballing. He is very untidy by hand and it is something which still needs a lot of work. The kid will work though and I think he gets there.

The bigger issue for me is the simple fact that he does not find enough of the ball. For someone with his physical gifts he should find more of the ball. At the Champs he only averaged about 15 disposals a game and it was not like he was stuck in a pocket. He was on a flank mostly with significant time onball and on the wing. He improved on that a bit in the Colts and the WAFL but not enough to give me comfort that his feel for where to run to receive has gotten good enough. Most of his disposals are hard won and he does not get out and link up enough or find space for the cheap and easy possessions. There is going to need to be a fair bit or work done on his running patterns but if they can teach Tom Bell where to run I am sure SPP can be taught as well.

What SPP does better than anyone else in this draft is hit a pack at pace and come away with the ball. He is a big unit (already 90kgs) and opponents are reluctant to get between him and the ball. He is powerful, well balanced and has explosive pace and that makes him difficult to contain when he gets it. He also has a devastating sidestep which is going to be as effective at AFL level as it is at junior level. It is a big sidestep and he executes at pace which makes him very difficult to tackle even if he was not as big as he is. Unless you get your shoulder behind the tackle he will just brush through and come out the other side. Teams are going to want to get him the ball more than he is now as he can turn teams around. He might not have fantastic top end speed but he is not slow and he has recorded a 15.5 beep previously (he only managed 14.5 at the Combine where I think he was carrying a bit of extra poundage).

Speaking of the Combine, he was one of the stars there and certainly reminded teams of what he can do. In addition to the beep test he was also top 10 in the agility test with an 8.24 which is excellent for such a bulky guy. His 10m 28sec in the 3km was good and 3.00 for the 20m very solid. I am generally not the biggest fan of the skills test but it is worth mentioning that SPP lead the way in the goal kicking test with a perfect score and was in the top 10 in the clean hands. The one negative he had for the weekend was the repeat sprint which was quite poor for some reason. Overall it is hard not to be impressed with his performance given how many of those who played the week before in the All Star game, like he did, did not have good performances at the Combine.

Whether SPP succeeds at AFL level could very well come down to where he plays. If he is played in defence I think he could very well flop. In defence he tightens up with his kicking and turns it over a lot. He also tends to curb his natural attacking game and gets too conservative. Where he needs to be played is on a forward flank with some time on the wing. He is not the best mark of the ball but with the ball in hands he will attack a defence and can find a seam. He is a pretty good kick of the ball into 50 and can create opportunities. He has good penetration on his kicks and can kick them from outside 50 if needed. With the ball on the ground I think he has pretty clean hands (maybe not elite but good for a forward) and he can finish. He has been a consistent goal kicker in the west this year. He is particularly dangerous in contested situations up forward as he can use his big body to clear the way and create opportunities and his attack on the ball makes things happen.

SPP might be the best tackler in the draft this year. He tackles hard and often and opponents know when he is about and this can make things happen as they make sure they get it away quickly. To finish the year SPP had 7 tackles in the Colts GF and another 5 in the All Star game. He influences games with his defensive work and coaches will like that from a forward / midfielder. Speaking of the All Star game, I thought he was very influential in that one and looked like one of the better prospects out there. He again only managed 18 disposals but he was certainly an impact player. He is likely to start his career as an impact player off the forward flank but hopefully he learns to find more of it and he moves into the midfield. If he learns to find more of the ball he could be a very important player for a team.

All two words descriptions tend to leave a bit out.

Hope you didn't get down to Battle who I managed to get down to a one word description - "forward"

 

[aussierulesrules]

SPP is certainly a bigger body but you need to discount his performances because of that fact.

WTF? No offense, but that's one of the silliest things I've read.

How many "bigger bodied" players dominate under age but can't progress much further in the AFL?

This is something that some trot out each year, but it's not based in any truth and statistics actually show that it's the more inside, strong, contested types who are a FAR less chance of not making it at AFL level than the skinny, uncontested, outside types. Hence Knightmare for instance generally rating them so much higher.

They looked into this on AFL Future Stars a couple of years ago with regards to those taken top 10 for instance and they found that the bigger-bodied, contested, inside types had about an 80% success rate, compared to the skinny, outside uncontested types, who only had about a 30% success rate.

Guys with big strong bodies who were generally much bigger than their opponents at junior level who seem to be going OK at AFL level include Dangerfield, Bontempelli, Dusty Martin, Cripps, Wines, Stringer, Petracca, Oliver, Hopper and that's just a few off the top of my head. Some of course said the same thing about Paddy going into his draft and it was said about guys like Hawkins and Boyd as well, by those who are ignorant to the facts.

 

[StCicatriz]

WTF? No offense, but that's one of the silliest things I've read.

This is something that some trot out each year, but it's not based in any truth and statistics actually show that it's the more inside, strong, contested types who are a FAR less chance of not making it at AFL level than the skinny, uncontested, outside types. Hence Knightmare for instance generally rating them so much higher.

They looked into this on AFL Future Stars a couple of years ago with regards to those taken top 10 for instance and they found that the bigger-bodied, contested, inside types had about an 80% success rate, compared to the skinny, outside uncontested types, who only had about a 30% success rate.

Guys with big strong bodies who were generally much bigger than their opponents at junior level who seem to be going OK at AFL level include Dangerfield, Bontempelli, Dusty Martin, Cripps, Wines, Stringer, Petracca, Oliver, Hopper and that's just a few off the top of my head. Some of course said the same thing about Paddy going into his draft and it was said about guys like Hawkins and Boyd as well, by those who are ignorant to the facts.

how many of those were effectively under an AFL teams development system for 12 months atleast?

 

[aussierulesrules]

how many of those were effectively under an AFL teams development system for 12 months atleast?

Probably none of them, but what does that have to do with the fact that him having a big strong body in no way means we should discount his prospects, because year after year we hear this sort of thing said about the Petracca/Ollie Wines/McCartin types, by the ignorant, and time after time they go on to push others around at AFL level as well.

If SPP doesn't make it, it sure as shit won't be because he's a big strong, powerful, explosive unit!

 

[StCicatriz]

Article on Essendon and their picks in today's HUN and they have a quote on what they're looking for with each of their picks and Dodo said they have a couple in the mix for pick 20 that they had in their top 5 early in the year. So who would they be? I'm guessing one is Marshall. Anyone else coming to mind for anyone?

witherden would be my guess

 

[StCicatriz]

Probably none of them, but what does that have to do with the fact that him having a big strong body in no way means we should discount his prospects, because year after year we hear this sort of thing said about the Petracca/Ollie Wines/McCartin types, by the ignorant, and time after time they go on to push others around at AFL level as well.

If SPP doesn't make it, it sure as shit won't be because he's a big strong, powerful, explosive unit!

i dont disagree with you on the size thing

my comment is more in regards to his ceiling and what is holding him back from being a more consistent player that can have more of an impact as a midfielder. his size and development isnt

for a bloke thats under-developed you consider them to have a higher ceiling as you can see what a full time afl development system could do to them

and thats the query i have on SPP. i love him and would be wrapt with him but i question what more we can do that the eagles have already done via east perth and what his ceiling will be

 

[pebblesofsand]

WTF? No offense, but that's one of the silliest things I've read.

This is something that some trot out each year, but it's not based in any truth and statistics actually show that it's the more inside, strong, contested types who are a FAR less chance of not making it at AFL level than the skinny, uncontested, outside types. Hence Knightmare for instance generally rating them so much higher.

They looked into this on AFL Future Stars a couple of years ago with regards to those taken top 10 for instance and they found that the bigger-bodied, contested, inside types had about an 80% success rate, compared to the skinny, outside uncontested types, who only had about a 30% success rate.

Guys with big strong bodies who were generally much bigger than their opponents at junior level who seem to be going OK at AFL level include Dangerfield, Bontempelli, Dusty Martin, Cripps, Wines, Stringer, Petracca, Oliver, Hopper and that's just a few off the top of my head. Some of course said the same thing about Paddy going into his draft and it was said about guys like Hawkins and Boyd as well, by those who are ignorant to the facts.

Nice list of "big bodied" mids all of whom (other than Cripps) went top 10.

That to me might suggest they are were better than average footballers but hey who an I to argue since I'm apparently ignorant of the facts.

So you're comparing top 10 against some one who we reckon will last to the mid twenties in an even but not spectacular draft.

SPP is not gonna get any bigger so there is no real upside on that side of his game, you would be stupid not to factor that in when considering him the draft.There lies the reason why we are talking about him at 23 no 3.

Against the big bodied muscle of SPP's 90 kg's it makes me wonder why any side is even considering drafting any of the top 15 mids in the draft. McCluggage (75kg) McGrath (79kg) Taranto (82KG) Ainsworth (75KG) Setterfield (80kg) SPS (76KG) Scrimshaw (80 kg) Brodie (82KG) Bowes (78 kg) Sympkin (71KG) Perryman (75) Florent (75) Berry (80) Galluci (75) Hayward (76) Witherden (79).

Heaven forbid we actually consider talent when drafting.