List Mgmt. Draft thread - 2025 (remaining picks: 29, 34)

[Keys]

Live draft hand
R1: 1 (Duursma), 4 (CDT), 19 (Lindsay)
R2: 29, 34
RD: 1

Draft picks pre-draft
R1: 1, 2, 13
R2: 34, 41
RD: 1

List spots available
Main list: 2 (includes Duursma, CDT, Lindsay)
Cat A Rookie list: 1 (expecting Robertson, Macrae and Schoenberg to join as SSP signings)
Cat B Rookie list: 1

Draft order

Spoiler

Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)

Rookie Me Central 2025 Draft Guide

2025 AFL Draft Guide

online.fliphtml5.com

Matthew Clarke on Gettable 17/11

Spoiler

Cal Twomey’s Phantom Draft

Spoiler

 

[txbyhull]

The draft order is a live beast once the draft starts with picks constantly moving up and down as bids are made and matched

I’ll use a bid on Uwland at pick 2 as an example and assume it’s matched by Gold Coast

• Pick 2 becomes Zeke Uwland and all the following picks move back one spot (2 becomes 3, 3 becomes 4 and so on)
• Gold Coast need 2233 points to match. The picks they hold before the bid was lodged are 15,18,24 which have a combined value of 2430 points - an excess of 197 points which is equivalent to pick 43
• So picks 15,18,24 are deleted and the order resets - so our pick 34 for example goes up to 35 with Uwland added in then down to 32 with the three matching picks removed
• Gold Coast are then given pick 43 which slots into the revised order and each pick after that gets pushed back one place

That process is repeated each time a bid is made.

It’s important to note that whatever points value clubs hold at the start of the draft will change each time a bid is matched as the draft picks have whatever value they shift to. So again using pick 34 as an example, it will have a higher points value after the Uwland bid than it did prior because it’s now pick 32 and not 34

I hope all that makes sense

Thanks mate,

I mostly understand how it all works but I've previously been told otherwise, that the DVI is tied before the draft starts and if say, Carlton use pick 11 @ 1205 that no further pick in the draft can take on that value.

For example, if Gold Coast were to match a bid on Uwland with 2577 points using (in this world) 18, 21, 24, and 27 for a surplus of 344, in would be the case that both:

A. Gold Coast are returned the equivalent of a pick ahead of Pick 34 (338), and

B. Picks originally behind 18, 21, 24, and 27 are able to be recalculated with the value of those picks.

For example Geelong holding pick 19 right behind Gold Coast. That pick, post-bid and matching on Uwland, would then take on the 796-point value that 18 has once Uwland at 2 has been added to the order and subsequently got used up?

I've also been told that surplus points are not returned as a free pick, but instead are a cost incurred and slide back the next of a club's picks by that amount? This is absolute hogwash afaik?

 

[maverick001]

If we trade up to Carlton’s pick 9 and ignoring academy players:

1. Willem Duursma - WCE
2. Cooper Duff-Tytler - WCE
3. Sullivan Robey - Richmond
4. Sam Grlj - Richmond
5. Sam Cumming - Essendon
6. Aidan Schubert - Essendon
7. Xavier Taylor - Melbourne
8. Lachy Dovaston - Melbourne
9. Dyson Sharp - WCE

Now before anyone pipes up to say that’s unrealistic, the only change I’ve made to the names in the top 8 from the ESPN phantom published today is to elevate Schubert such that Sharp slips from 7 in theirs to 9 here (I’ve also slightly rearranged which order players are picked from 3-8)

The key is Richmond picking Grlj as he isn’t linked as strongly to Essendon and Melbourne as he seems to be to Richmond. If Richmond pick Robey and Taylor for example, Grlj may slip out of that top 8

Probably then need Essendon or Melbourne to take a tall (Schubert) and both of them to prioritise outside types over Sharp - Melbourne have Langford so might pass on Sharp

It’s unlikely, but there is a path that sees Sharp slide to the first Carlton pick.

How we get that pick is another matter but 13,34,41 for 9,43 should go close along with a silent nod to forget Dean exists

If Grjl was there at 9 and we had it I'd be happy to take him too

 

[rebel23]

If we don't bid on Patterson at pick one.. and uwland at two we are beyond dumb and deserve mediocrity.
Press home the draft advantage we have... Duursma won't give a toss whether he goes 1 or 3 or 4.

If there's even a small chance to get Patterson then bloody hell go for it!... It'll also bring our later picks in

Patterson and duursma is a way better combo for our first two picks than anything else suggested..

 

[Priddis Is Done]

A brilliant round 1 game demonstrated CDT's elite talent, and he's essentially remained the standout tall in the draft pool since that point. His movement for a 200cm kid is absolutely elite, the eye test backed up by top 10 finishes in the 2km time trial and 20m sprint at the combine, and his coordinated skills and level of competitiveness complete an undeniably attractive package. CDT is likely to be a slower burn for whichever team picks him on draft night, but he has all the tools to pay off that patience in spades in the coming years.

So what exact role would we be devolping him in, expect him to play?

Reporter: congratulations WCE, how do you see CDT developing?

• Well we aren't quite sure yet, but he's a super athlete.
• Look he may pinch hit in the ruck but he's not a ruckman
• Yeah look he's not your normal power forward
• We dont this he's a CHB
• he could be that big midfielder but we dont know yet

But my god he's a unicorn and a super athlete, we'll figure this out down the track

 

[txbyhull]

So what exact role would we be devolping him in, expect him to play?

Reporter: congratulations WCE, how do you see CDT developing?

• Well we aren't quite sure yet, but he's a super athlete.
• Look he may pinch hit in the ruck but he's not a ruckman
• Yeah look he's not your normal power forward
• We dont this he's a CHB
• he could be that big midfielder but we dont know yet

But my god he's a unicorn and a super athlete, we'll figure this out down the track

Genuinely think he could do well putting on the kg’s and playing CHB. The chest marking habit is a real concern as a forward prospect but surely if you just say “mate flog the ball away, just sock the ****er towards boundary” he’ll do alright given his athleticism and kicking.

 

[JADED]

I understand that, don't get me wrong, but are we saying these draft watchers are getting it wrong for our team too? Everyone is rating CDT above Sharp, for example. At pick 2, should we be drafting for need instead of clear best available? Well, clearly better than Sharp, anyway.

Most draft gurus are Victorians, so perhaps there's some agenda there. Maybe they don't want to see us get better by taking the leadership and inside mid qualities that Sharp has shown for years.
He was rated pick 1 til it was obvious we still sucked.
Now where does he slide to?
Vic clubs.

I doubt he gets past Melbourne's picks. How would they not want the best inside mid after offloading Petracca & Oliver's grunt work?

 

[Selurs]

Man, the melting on draft night is guaranteed going to be epic. So many lines in the sand being drawn, but what I'm hearing now is that Sharp could last to our third pick.

Could he last to our third pick and we...don't pick him?

Would this board survive?

 

[rfarlz]

If we can get 9 I think 2,9 for 5,6 is very much in play. Using your trade net result being:

2,13,34,41 for 5,6,43.

Yes I’d do it after Richmond tell us they are taking two of Robey, Taylor and Grlj.

I've been thinking that 2+9 should be able to get Essendon to move from 5+6, they move up three spots on one pick and slide three spots on the other. Might be able to do a three-way trade with them and Carlton so Essendon contribute a little bit of the points gain for Carlton. Maybe something like:
WCE give
2,13,41
WCE receive
5,6
Ess give
5,6,30
Ess receive
2,9,43
Carl give
9,43
Carl receive
13,30,41

• Carlton get a 215 point boost and both WCE and Ess can commit to staying away from Dean
• We give up some points, but end up with 5 and 6 which puts us right where the SA guys should be rather than reaching at pick 2. We pretty much guarantee ourselved 2 of Sharp, Cumming, Schubert.
• Essendon make a 112 point surplus and can also guarantee themselves one of Robey or CDT

I feel like this is pretty fair all around, and the whole deal builds a little bit of intangible value for Carlton due to involving two clubs who can commit to not bidding on Dean.

 

[Shueygod]

Most draft gurus are Victorians, so perhaps there's some agenda there. Maybe they don't want to see us get better by taking the leadership and inside mid qualities that Sharp has shown for years.
He was rated pick 1 til it was obvious we still sucked.
Now where does he slide to?
Vic clubs.

I doubt he gets past Melbourne's picks. How would they not want the best inside mid after offloading Petracca & Oliver's grunt work?

Sharp and Langford would be a very slow midfield, I can see Melbourne not being keen.

 

[JADED]

Sharp and Langford would be a very slow midfield, I can see Melbourne not being keen.

I saw Oliver and Petracca in a race with Harley Reid once...
You're right, Melbourne don't want to get any slower.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Yes. You can dismiss the experts all you want but no one is taking Sharp above Robey. The fact that Sharp was better as an underager is irrelevant.

The biggest group think is the stiffys on here for Sharp. I don’t think anyone would be unhappy if Sharp slid to our third pick (very possible) but pick 2 is a reach. Alternatively split pick 2 and grab Sharp plus something else but we bang on about taking the best talent at 1 & 2 so a split seems counterintuitive now, especially if we can move up to Carlton’s pick and get another decent kid… maybe even Sharp!

Experts you say.

Cal isn't an expert. The guys at ESPN are barely out of nappies.

The experts are the recruiters clubs have in place all across the country. Some coach Coates, some VFL, some employed to watch vision all day every day. None of these guys do the rankings you see at rookie me ESPN or the AFL. The "media" rankings are based on 'intel' and conversation with the real recruiters.

I know the list manager of one of the AFL teams very well, and he keeps his cards so close to his chest I ain't got Nada off him. He will throw cookies and tidbits, but nothing about who his team rate for there picks. This is a game of sucks and drakes. Clubs flag interest and non interest to throw off the scent of other recruiters. People ask haw do the cats pluck some of these players out of obscurity....BC they don't tell anyone there true ratings or intentions.

 

[eaglevision]

I've been thinking that 2+9 should be able to get Essendon to move from 5+6, they move up three spots on one pick and slide three spots on the other. Might be able to do a three-way trade with them and Carlton so Essendon contribute a little bit of the points gain for Carlton. Maybe something like:
WCE give
2,13,41
WCE receive
5,6
Ess give
5,6,30
Ess receive
2,9,43
Carl give
9,43
Carl receive
13,30,41

• Carlton get a 215 point boost and both WCE and Ess can commit to staying away from Dean
• We give up some points, but end up with 5 and 6 which puts us right where the SA guys should be rather than reaching at pick 2. We pretty much guarantee ourselved 2 of Sharp, Cumming, Schubert.
• Essendon make a 112 point surplus and can also guarantee themselves one of Robey or CDT

I feel like this is pretty fair all around, and the whole deal builds a little bit of intangible value for Carlton due to involving two clubs who can commit to not bidding on Dean.

This is a good post and exactly the kind of trade that will be spoken about between the clubs. Good thinking

 

[Boots73]

If we go with CDT will that mean we don't have a go at Van Rooyen and Axel who are genuine ruckman in the next 2 drafts ?
Surely we will have to try and pick up and experienced ruckman somewhere next year as Flynn could be cooked.

Also if we try to move up the order by packaging up some picks ,can't see us having the craft capital for T Williams ?
From our nga would like T Williams, Banfield and Evans nothing on Walley

 

[Eastern Rangers]

If we go with CDT will that mean we don't have a go at Van Rooyen and Axel who are genuine ruckman in the next 2 drafts ?
Surely we will have to try and pick up and experienced ruckman somewhere next year as Flynn could be cooked.

Also if we try to move up the order by packaging up some picks ,can't see us having the craft capital for T Williams ?
From our nga would like T Williams, Banfield and Evans nothing on Walley

No, and the same applies to tall forwards. Cooper Duff-Tyler isn't going to stop us from needing to recruit a tall forward in the near future.

 

[eaglevision]

If we go with CDT will that mean we don't have a go at Van Rooyen and Axel who are genuine ruckman in the next 2 drafts ?
Surely we will have to try and pick up and experienced ruckman somewhere next year as Flynn could be cooked.

Also if we try to move up the order by packaging up some picks ,can't see us having the craft capital for T Williams ?
From our nga would like T Williams, Banfield and Evans nothing on Walley

Selling the rights to CDT and taking mids instead then trading our 2027 1R to Tassie for pick 1 in the mini draft next year and selecting Axel makes more sense than anything that list management has done in the last 10 years.

 

[Forward Press]

I'm in here for the melts if Sharp slides to our third pick - and we still don't pick him.

A criticism of Sharp is that he's slow. Is this what we want from our great inside mid hope? Clubs have been delisting highly rated but slow inside mids this off-season (not saying that Sharp would be one of them, btw).

Most draft gurus are Victorians, so perhaps there's some agenda there. Maybe they don't want to see us get better by taking the leadership and inside mid qualities that Sharp has shown for years.
He was rated pick 1 til it was obvious we still sucked.
Now where does he slide to?
Vic clubs.

I doubt he gets past Melbourne's picks. How would they not want the best inside mid after offloading Petracca & Oliver's grunt work?

Perhaps. I guess we'll never know really until a few years down the track when Sharp has been in the system for a while.

I would still be happy with him at 2, he ain't lasting past the first few picks and everyone agrees on that, I know he's highly rated by all, just was curious as to why he's consensus number 2 here but a fair bit out with Twomey and others.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

If we don't bid on Patterson at pick one.. and uwland at two we are beyond dumb and deserve mediocrity.
Press home the draft advantage we have... Duursma won't give a toss whether he goes 1 or 3 or 4.

If there's even a small chance to get Patterson then bloody hell go for it!... It'll also bring our later picks in

Patterson and duursma is a way better combo for our first two picks than anything else suggested..

There's no chance they won't take both. But if bid at early enough they won't have anything for Addinsall. Clubs will know this, watch him go in the first round!

 

[Wooshaaaa]

I've been thinking that 2+9 should be able to get Essendon to move from 5+6, they move up three spots on one pick and slide three spots on the other. Might be able to do a three-way trade with them and Carlton so Essendon contribute a little bit of the points gain for Carlton. Maybe something like:
WCE give
2,13,41
WCE receive
5,6
Ess give
5,6,30
Ess receive
2,9,43
Carl give
9,43
Carl receive
13,30,41

• Carlton get a 215 point boost and both WCE and Ess can commit to staying away from Dean
• We give up some points, but end up with 5 and 6 which puts us right where the SA guys should be rather than reaching at pick 2. We pretty much guarantee ourselved 2 of Sharp, Cumming, Schubert.
• Essendon make a 112 point surplus and can also guarantee themselves one of Robey or CDT

I feel like this is pretty fair all around, and the whole deal builds a little bit of intangible value for Carlton due to involving two clubs who can commit to not bidding on Dean.

Love it.

Eagles duursma
Dons CDT
Tigers Robey
Tigers Taylor/grjl
Eagles sharp
Eagles cumming/dovaston/grjl

 

[mattyc75]

Genuinely think he could do well putting on the kg’s and playing CHB. The chest marking habit is a real concern as a forward prospect but surely if you just say “mate flog the ball away, just sock the ****er towards boundary” he’ll do alright given his athleticism and kicking.

If he's seen as a CHB then it should be a hard pass

 

[eaglevision]

If he's seen as a CHB then it should be a hard pass

IF we take him I’d be happy developing him at CHB as he gets big enough to ruck but suspect we think he’s a midfielder.

 

[bzparkes]

Genuinely think he could do well putting on the kg’s and playing CHB. The chest marking habit is a real concern as a forward prospect but surely if you just say “mate flog the ball away, just sock the ****er towards boundary” he’ll do alright given his athleticism and kicking.

The comments about him preferring chest marking seem a bit OTT, tbh.

Yeah, he takes a lot of chest marks but that seems to be his preference when he's in the open. Took plenty of overhead marks in games.

 

[Weshi]

Experts you say.

Cal isn't an expert. The guys at ESPN are barely out of nappies.

The experts are the recruiters clubs have in place all across the country. Some coach Coates, some VFL, some employed to watch vision all day every day. None of these guys do the rankings you see at rookie me ESPN or the AFL. The "media" rankings are based on 'intel' and conversation with the real recruiters.

I know the list manager of one of the AFL teams very well, and he keeps his cards so close to his chest I ain't got Nada off him. He will throw cookies and tidbits, but nothing about who his team rate for there picks. This is a game of sucks and drakes. Clubs flag interest and non interest to throw off the scent of other recruiters. People ask haw do the cats pluck some of these players out of obscurity....BC they don't tell anyone there true ratings or intentions.

Exactly who the F go into a negotiation with their draft order open to the opponent unless their is an advantage to try to flush something out! Anything the media gets are titbits the clubs want them to know, you may get a more accurate assessment from say the team with pick 18 as too who they think is pick 1 or 2!

 

[pantskyle]

Spoke to a club recruiter about CDT. His athleticism and ground ball stands out, will be a 20 disposal a game ruck once developed and a mobile forward/ruck, very much in the mould of a Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

24

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

.

Think he'll be a great pick up for whoever takes him, whether he is right for us is the big question.

 

[Obeanie1]

So what exact role would we be devolping him in, expect him to play?

Reporter: congratulations WCE, how do you see CDT developing?

• Well we aren't quite sure yet, but he's a super athlete.
• Look he may pinch hit in the ruck but he's not a ruckman
• Yeah look he's not your normal power forward
• We dont this he's a CHB
• he could be that big midfielder but we dont know yet

But my god he's a unicorn and a super athlete, we'll figure this out down the track

He plays forward.

He pinch hits and develops his ruck craft.

There are 5 on the bench in 2026.

There's your answer.

He starts in the WAFL and earns a game.

 

[Suma Magic]

We desperately need a good ruck. I’m keen for CDT, even if he only becomes a second ruck.