Drafting in the 'naughties.

[Macjoe]

There is a thread on the Main Board called “Disappointing top 3 draft picks”.

We’re not in it, of course, because we haven’t had any.

It is a debate about which of the top three draft picks in the last decade are the most disappointing. A poster described it as a “usual BigFooty slag fest” because most supporters were justifying their own picks, and slagging others. Bit silly, ‘cos when you look at the lists there are better and worse picks, but no real duds.

Same poster suggested a Geelong supporter was needed to referee, and that got me thinking and looking: Which team has had the LEAST POOR RESULTS in the last decade?

…and the winner is… AD-EL-LAIDE!

How so, you ask?

In the 10 years from 2000 to 2009, this is how many top 6 picks all clubs have had:
(I picked top 6, because in 4 of those years there were 3 Priority Selections before the draft proper began, allowing those teams with PSs to double dip in the top 6)

With 7 top 6 picks: Carlton
With 6: Hawthorn, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs
With 5: St Kilda and West Coast Eagles
With 4: Essendon, North Melbourne and Richmond
With 3: Collingwood, Fremantle and Port
With 2: Brisbane and Sydney

The only 2 teams which have not had any top 6 picks are Geelong, which had 3 pick 7s and a pick 8; and Adelaide with 1 pick 7 (which we wasted on Angwin! ) and 2 pick 10s.

Says a hell of a lot about our recruiting and development staff looking at our list now.

Also makes Geelong's achievements even more impressive, and Carlton and Melbourne's inability to make headway less than impressive.

 

[spexau]

If you judge it from a results standpoint then you'd have to say that Carlton, Melbourne, Richmond would be the worst. You could say that North Melbourne, Essendon and Port are tied with the next lot. North came 4th a couple years ago, Essendon would have a better list if not for injuries and Port made the grand final a couple years ago as well. Admittedly Port and North ranked highly in a pretty uncompetitive year for AFL standard which was polarized by Geelongs huge GF win. The rest would be on par you'd think when you consider how many top 6 picks they have had compared to their results.

What you can draw from that is that a losing culture is really hard to shake no matter how many "elite" players you have.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

No doubt we've developed some good players from low draft picks, the preseason draft and the rookie list too. Geelong lucked out with a few father son picks - players that would have been taken very high up otherwise.

 

[amer]

Geelong secured Ablett and Scarlett through the F/S. Nuff said.

 

[NikkiNoo]

But as others will no doubt point out that Gary Ablett Jnr wasn't thought of that highly. It was a bit of a risk by Geelong and was in no way guaranteed to show the abilities he now does.

 

[weneverland]

Also makes Geelong's achievements even more impressive, and Carlton and Melbourne's inability to make headway less than impressive.

Although you could argue that Geelong were also blessed with some recruits that should have been classed as top 6 drafts but were obtained through the father/son rule.

 

[fartass]

But as others will no doubt point out that Gary Ablett Jnr wasn't thought of that highly. It was a bit of a risk by Geelong and was in no way guaranteed to show the abilities he now does.

agreed. however isint that the case with any draft pick...? unless your recurting a nik nat...

 

[Vader]

Scarlett was drafted back in 1997, well outside the 'naughties' window.

They also had a VERY good draft year in 1999 (also outside the 'naughties') when they picked up Joel Corey, Paul Chapman, Cameron Ling, Corey Enright and Cam Mooney. Remove those players from their list and they don't win either of their flags.

Their other big year was 2001, which DOES fall in the 'naughties' - Jimmy Bartel, James Kelly, Steve Johnson and Gary Ablett. Bartel was taken at #8.

They haven't gone close to replicating the success they had with these two drafts in the 8 years since that time.

They did well with their one & only #7 selection - Selwood is arguably the best performed player from his draft.

Ablett might have been taken as a 3rd rounder under the F/S rule, but that's around about where he was rated as a junior anyway. It's highly unlikely he was ever going to go in the top 10 even he were available to all 16 clubs.

 

[WALL-e]

I remember one year Geelong had a lot of troubles resigning players, including one Jimmy B, I was just praying he'd be a Crow. Oh well.

Ablett was taken roughly where he would have gone anyway.

Hawkins was stolen, but so far hasn't done anything.

 

[neddy36]

I plan on putting together a table of the numbers of priority picks, father-son selections and Top 5 National Draft selections together for each of the clubs. It will show a big fat 0 for the AFC and reflect what a great list we have without the benefits of high selections, "freebies" and biased football family traditions.

 

[Huntercrow]

Reading other team boards the Crows are respected for their list management and reluctance to bottom out (No Tanking).

 

[Coopers]

Geelong secured Ablett and Scarlett through the F/S. Nuff said.

Argh. Gibbs rule.

GIBBS RULE!

YOU SHAFTED US HITLER!

 

[James23]

Sorta glad we didnt get Gibbs now.

1. We wouldnt have David Mackay

2. If we win another flag, other teams have no choice but to 100% respect it, as we used no father son selections, and barely any top 10 draft picks

 

[Elder van Berlo]

I'm very happy with Mackay rather than Gibbs. Not saying he's a better player,or will be (I don't watch much footy besides the Crows so it's hard to make a judgment on Gibbs) but Mackay is a gun and he's ours - you grow to love your own players, especially gun youngsters and I wouldn't trade him for anything.

On topic, I did a bit of analysis a few years ago (maybe 06) and worked out that Kris Massie was the only top 10 draft pick on our list. I think at the moment, we have a couple of top 10ers in Danger and Davis, but no single figure draft picks.

 

[blueborl]

If you judge it from a results standpoint then you'd have to say that Carlton, Melbourne, Richmond would be the worst. You could say that North Melbourne, Essendon and Port are tied with the next lot. North came 4th a couple years ago, Essendon would have a better list if not for injuries and Port made the grand final a couple years ago as well. Admittedly Port and North ranked highly in a pretty uncompetitive year for AFL standard which was polarized by Geelongs huge GF win. The rest would be on par you'd think when you consider how many top 6 picks they have had compared to their results.

What you can draw from that is that a losing culture is really hard to shake no matter how many "elite" players you have.

I think carlton have done very well with our high draft picks.
livingston.........shocker
walker....... ok hopefully comes good.
kennedy........ good player getting better.....sucks that hes gone now.
murphy.........star
gibbs.......... turning into a star
kreuzer........ turning into a star
yarran......... i think will be very good.

Most of the blues high draft picks have been in the last few years. You cant say weve had poor results with our high draft picks when weve just made the finals for the first time in years . And if we happen to make the finals again this year are they still failures? I think not. Take into account all those draft picks we lost for "cheating" i reckon we have done as good as anybody with drafting if not better.

 

[crowman_23]

I think carlton have done very well with our high draft picks.
livingston.........shocker
walker....... ok hopefully comes good.
kennedy........ good player getting better.....sucks that hes gone now.
murphy.........star
gibbs.......... turning into a star
kreuzer........ turning into a star
yarran......... i think will be very good.

Most of the blues high draft picks have been in the last few years. You cant say weve had poor results with our high draft picks when weve just made the finals for the first time in years . And if we happen to make the finals again this year are they still failures? I think not. Take into account all those draft picks we lost for "cheating" i reckon we have done as good as anybody with drafting if not better.

Pretty easy when your players you've labeled of 'star' or 'turning into star' are all number 1's.

 

[blueborl]

Pretty easy when your players you've labeled of 'star' or 'turning into star' are all number 1's.

Well we are talking about top 6 draft picks mate and ours happen to be number ones.

Do you disagree with me?

 

[crowman_23]

Well we are talking about top 6 draft picks mate and ours happen to be number ones.

Do you disagree with me?

Not at all. But I could be a successful drafter if I had pick 1 each season. I don't see it as any great feat that the three players you have listed as or to become stars are players that anybody and everybody knew were the best in their draft.

 

[blueborl]

Not at all. But I could be a successful drafter if I had pick 1 each season. I don't see it as any great feat that the three players you have listed as or to become stars are players that anybody and everybody knew were the best in their draft.

All players have been picked in different drafts in different years all over the place. Getting high draft picks is no guarantee of picking up stars.
It just increase your chances of getting stars. 4 or 5 top picks doesnt guarantee premierships but it pretty much guarantees gun players. But you gotta draft really well 2nd round onwards which adelaide have done really well. But in saying that success goes by winning premierships not just making finals year after year. Like a lot of teams do. Adelaide have a really good side no doubt about it. But do they have a premiership look about them? Carlton definately dont but our best is still a couple of years away .adelaides best is probably this year and next.

 

[crowman_23]

All players have been picked in different drafts in different years all over the place. Getting high draft picks is no guarantee of picking up stars.
It just increase your chances of getting stars. 4 or 5 top picks doesnt guarantee premierships but it pretty much guarantees gun players. But you gotta draft really well 2nd round onwards which adelaide have done really well. But in saying that success goes by winning premierships not just making finals year after year. Like a lot of teams do. Adelaide have a really good side no doubt about it. But do they have a premiership look about them? Carlton definately dont but our best is still a couple of years away .adelaides best is probably this year and next.

Adelaide's best still really is unknown. Outside of the club there is such a large perception that we must win one while the big 3 are still playing. The way some of are young guys 'look' to be coming on, our best could span over any number of years. Saying that, as could a lot of clubs. All these young guys that we're so excited about are still a few years off from being at their prime, there's no reason why is we continue to draft reasonable kids, the development continues on, that we couldn't build a very strong side for a long time.

With Fev gone Carlton are now where we were for so long, without a definitive key forward. Everything was looking to go in the right direction for the Blues in the last couple of seasons, but with the loss of Fev, (on the field a lot more so than off) you have taken large steps backwards. You now have a not so great defense (blokes like Thornton battle, Waite is good but will his body be right, does he play forwrad or back?), a lack of forward options (Henderson may yet be good, but still looks a fair way off from taking games by the scruff of the neck), and a bloody good midfield.

I know my perceptions are bias, but Rutten and Bock will still be around for 5 odd years, Tippett is know beginning to look like a dominant forward, we all know the hype on this board about Walker. And then Dangerfield, Mackay, Vince are all starting to look like they can take over the reigns of the midfield.

To me our list looks a lot better now and in to the future.

 

[blueborl]

Adelaide's best still really is unknown. Outside of the club there is such a large perception that we must win one while the big 3 are still playing. The way some of are young guys 'look' to be coming on, our best could span over any number of years. Saying that, as could a lot of clubs. All these young guys that we're so excited about are still a few years off from being at their prime, there's no reason why is we continue to draft reasonable kids, the development continues on, that we couldn't build a very strong side for a long time.

With Fev gone Carlton are now where we were for so long, without a definitive key forward. Everything was looking to go in the right direction for the Blues in the last couple of seasons, but with the loss of Fev, (on the field a lot more so than off) you have taken large steps backwards. You now have a not so great defense (blokes like Thornton battle, Waite is good but will his body be right, does he play forwrad or back?), a lack of forward options (Henderson may yet be good, but still looks a fair way off from taking games by the scruff of the neck), and a bloody good midfield.

I know my perceptions are bias, but Rutten and Bock will still be around for 5 odd years, Tippett is know beginning to look like a dominant forward, we all know the hype on this board about Walker. And then Dangerfield, Mackay, Vince are all starting to look like they can take over the reigns of the midfield.

To me our list looks a lot better now and in to the future.

Your list is marginally better than ours now that fev is gone. While the crows defence is better carltons has a lot more improvement in i reckon. it is getting less goals getting kicked against it as each year passes. And that is without jamison and waite in it for half the year. Youse will lose a couple of great players in the next couple of years with goodwin and mcleod(my cousin). And the crows only won one more game than the blues did last season but in saying that we just lost a 90 odd goals a season with fev going. With fev going it doesnt mean our midfield doesnt kick it in the f50 anymore. They have to kick it to someone. if we could get 50 to 60 goals out of kreuzer,henderson,ohailpin and robinson and our defence improves by a goal a game that should make up for fev.Wishfull thinking probably but you never know.

 

[Crow-mo]

Can't See much of an argument for why we did best?

 

[relapse]

There is a thread on the Main Board called “Disappointing top 3 draft picks”.

We’re not in it, of course, because we haven’t had any.

It is a debate about which of the top three draft picks in the last decade are the most disappointing. A poster described it as a “usual BigFooty slag fest” because most supporters were justifying their own picks, and slagging others. Bit silly, ‘cos when you look at the lists there are better and worse picks, but no real duds.

Same poster suggested a Geelong supporter was needed to referee, and that got me thinking and looking: Which team has had the LEAST POOR RESULTS in the last decade?

…and the winner is… AD-EL-LAIDE!

How so, you ask?

In the 10 years from 2000 to 2009, this is how many top 6 picks all clubs have had:
(I picked top 6, because in 4 of those years there were 3 Priority Selections before the draft proper began, allowing those teams with PSs to double dip in the top 6)

With 7 top 6 picks: Carlton
With 6: Hawthorn, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs
With 5: St Kilda and West Coast Eagles
With 4: Essendon, North Melbourne and Richmond
With 3: Collingwood, Fremantle and Port
With 2: Brisbane and Sydney

The only 2 teams which have not had any top 6 picks are Geelong, which had 3 pick 7s and a pick 8; and Adelaide with 1 pick 7 (which we wasted on Angwin! ) and 2 pick 10s.

Says a hell of a lot about our recruiting and development staff looking at our list now.

Also makes Geelong's achievements even more impressive, and Carlton and Melbourne's inability to make headway less than impressive.

Dont forget that Geelong also were aided by father son recruiting which meant they also got to pick up good players for next to nothing whilst still having their higher selections available for other players. Matthew Scarlett, Tom Hawkins, Garry Ablett Jr and Mark Blake (all four played in the 2009 premiership side). So while Geelong have had no actual top 6 picks, they managed through the father son rule to pick up players that would have been drafted in the top 6.

 

[Vader]

Dont forget that Geelong also were aided by father son recruiting which meant they also got to pick up good players for next to nothing whilst still having their higher selections available for other players. Matthew Scarlett, Tom Hawkins, Garry Ablett Jr and Mark Blake (all four played in the 2009 premiership side). So while Geelong have had no actual top 6 picks, they managed through the father son rule to pick up players that would have been drafted in the top 6.

As previously stated...

• Scarlett was drafted in 1997 and is irrelevant to a discussion about drafting in the naughties.
• Ablett was selected under the F/S rule, yes, but he would never have been a top-6 draftee even if he wasn't tied to the cats. His draft position pretty closely matches where he was rated at the time.
• Blake was never a top-6 draftee either.
• Hawkins I will give you - he may well have gone #1 if not already tied to the Cats. He's the reason why the bidding system was introduced.

 

[spexau]

I think carlton have done very well with our high draft picks.
livingston.........shocker
walker....... ok hopefully comes good.
kennedy........ good player getting better.....sucks that hes gone now.
murphy.........star
gibbs.......... turning into a star
kreuzer........ turning into a star
yarran......... i think will be very good.

Most of the blues high draft picks have been in the last few years. You cant say weve had poor results with our high draft picks when weve just made the finals for the first time in years . And if we happen to make the finals again this year are they still failures? I think not. Take into account all those draft picks we lost for "cheating" i reckon we have done as good as anybody with drafting if not better.

I never critisised the players Carlton drafted. Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer are all very good players. They probably aren't "stars" yet, because that word gets thrown around a lot these days. I was just judging the drafting from a results point of view. If Carlton didn't throw away their finals game versus Brisbane last year then it would've been a good season for them, I think that loss limits it to a slightly above average year. Sadly with out Fev I think your mob will just miss out on the 8 this year. With no likely target in your forward 50 and a suspect defense your going to have to rely on those "stars" you mentioned. If one of them has a bad season or gets injured it will go pear shaped.