Drafting

[Markfs]

i just looked at the pie site for some height information about liam mcmahon..... of course it wasn't there... the only thing there was a few lines about him..

" After years of resisting drafting a key forward, Collingwood pulled the trigger with its second-last pick in the 2020 NAB AFL Draft. "

So the people associated with the actual club refer to resistance to drafting a key forward? Are they kidding? Are they having a go at the club? And then it goes on to call McMahon a long-term prospect... so it will be a few more years of not having enough key forwards on the list. I suggest a rewrite....

"After years of ignoring the blatant lack of key forwards on the list, Collingwood has pulled the trigger and belatedly thrown a late pick in the draft into trying to cover up its mistake. But don't hold your breath magpie fans"

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Its interesting to hear commentators applaud Beveridge, Hardwick and Longmire for integrity of selection. In that they are prepared to drop players irrespective of who they are for poor form or discipline reasons, and to promote players who are in form
Collingwood do neither....
It used to be reported that the hardest thing in sport was a NSW player to be dropped from the Australian Test side... hoever the Test side has nothing on Collingwood...
Both Brown's, WHE, Thomas, Mayne and Sidebottom have had poor periods over the past 18 months. Yet....
Should one get dropped they are recalled without having any form behind them...
We keep picking the same players and continually get the same results (whilst expecting something different). Lets start picking for the future. Lets start picking players on exposed form. Lets make an example of the undisciplined. If they cant get a game, move them on!!!!

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Gee, you've beaten me to the punch. Exactly my thoughts. It's not the drafting that's an issue for me. I think Hine is doing a good job. It's more that we've been giving away too many high draft picks for little reward. Then when we find a good young player we find excuses for not playing him. The usual one is he's not ready. And he'll play one game then get dropped. That happened to both Keane and Henry. This is all happening while senior players have been gifted games while others like Varcoe and Reid went an two extra years when it was obvious they were finished as AFL footballers. We're doing the same this year with Greenwood and Mayne who both should have finished up last year. How are we going to get better when we're playing the same footballers who have been letting us down? Since 2018 we're been sliding down the ladder. Expect another 4-5 teams to go past us this season. Unfortunately we're too well coached to bottom out this season so don't expect too many high draft picks coming (except for Nick Daicos) at the end of this season and even if we get them don't be expecting any of them to play before their 22nd birthday.

 

[Maggie5]

List of players (according to Footywire) whose contracts are due for renewal at the end of this year. How many would you renew from this list (excluding newbies)? Noble, Cameron, Cox, Sier? Magden? Depending on Pendlebury's body and form, most likely another year. Not very exciting.

 

[Gone Critical]

The lack of quality young talent is the big hole in our list and too many posters are being overly optimistic re the chances of the 2019-20 class making big inroads into solving our list issues

The basic problem I see is that we have very few players form the last 6 drafts who currently project to a strong AFL career. Daicos and Quaynor are the only two who you would rate at this level. Its not a surprise because we have drafted very little top end talent in the last 6 drafts. It's very hard to develop a list with minimal input from the top end of the draft. We are really asking Hine to be a wizard.

Look at our current list. If I was to nominate a top 10 it would be

Pendles
Sidey
Moore
De Goey
Howe
Daicos
Crisp
Adams
Grundy
Maynard

with IQ as the only other young player projecting to be in that group currently. 3 top 10 picks and 7 of that 11 are from top 10 or teen picks. Flip side is WHE is the only one who was drafted in that range ( not considering 2020group) who isn't a top 10 player.

From the last 6 drafts we have 2 locked in best 22 players, a few on the edge of the 22 (Browns, Sier, Kelly) and a lot of unknown.

In the last 6 drafts we currently have 3 players who were picked 13, 17 and 19 as our 3 highest draft picks left at the club. We have squandered then discarded our top end picks.

Just for comparison Carlton have 6 top 10 picks from that time and 9 from picks 1-20. Essendon 6 top 10 picks, Sydney 4 top 10 and 6 top 20. Adelaide 3 top 10 and 9 top 20. GWS 5 top 10 and 15 top 20. Gold Coast 11 top 10 picks and 13 top 20. Freo 6 top 10 and 8 top 20. I could do the full list but it's depressing.

 

[Gone Critical]

List of players (according to Footywire) whose contracts are due for renewal at the end of this year. How many would you renew from this list (excluding newbies)? Noble, Cameron, Cox, Sier? Magden? Depending on Pendlebury's body and form, most likely another year. Not very exciting.

View attachment 1097780

I would think Pendles gets another year no drama. Mayne, Thomas and Greenwood probably go. Lynch surely in the gun after 5 years. Ruscoe, Bianco and Rantall will need to show a little bit to be sure of staying. I suspect not all of that group will make 2022. Of the various type of rookies Tohill, Chugg and Ginnivan are all speculative and can be moved on easily.

How many can we afford to drop off the list at end of 2021? After Nick D and maybe Dib we will be left at the back end of the draft again so unless we can entice some Free Agents we will struggle.

 

[Markfs]

why is this forum so forgiving of derek hine? I thought he was doing ok about 5 or 6 years ago. I thought he was in sync with the malthouse philosophy of contested possessions followed by big kicks down field.

However, the last few years he's been recruiting for an era that is gone...

As for the explanations that he hasnt had high draft picks, does he get paid for providing the names of established champion schoolboy footballers? Have a look at West Coast who haven't been near the bottom of the ladder for 15 years. They have drafted exceptionally well.... skilful players, players who can kick... They dont get any draft concessions.

I dont believe in bashing club officials and coaches for collective decisions...and I'm sure other people have had a hand in draft decisions, but Hine hasn't delivered much in the last half dozen years. As I said to a family member last night, if I had the choice of seeing Hine or Buckley go, I would pick Hine.

 

[Markfs]

Here are the drafts for West Coast between 2013 and 2017. I pick that team and years because we met them in 2018 and since then, West Coast has regenerated and improved and we haven't.

They haven't had high draft picks and they haven't hit the mark on every occasion. However in Ryan and Oscar Allen

4

Oscar Allen

Age

26

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

, they've picked top 5 pics and you could arguably put McGovern in that bracket. They also added Barass who is probably a top 10 to 15 pick. They've also done well with their high draft picks with Duggan and Sheed. Of the 24 players drafted in those drafted, 15 are still on their list....

I'd do a comparison with the Pies but I'd get too depressed. This mob makes us look like amateurs.


2017

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	1​	13​	Jarrod Brander​	West Coast​	12​
National​	2​	21​	Oscar Allen​	West Coast​	41​
National​	2​	26​	Liam Ryan​	West Coast​	58​
National​	2​	32​	Brayden Ainsworth​	West Coast​	12​
National​	2​	38​	Jack Petruccelle​	West Coast​	31​

2016

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	1​	13​	Daniel Venables​	West Coast​	21​
National​	2​	37​	Josh Rotham​	West Coast​	17​
National​	3​	52​	Willie Rioli​	West Coast​	38​
National​	6​	77​	Jake Waterman F​	West Coast​	39​

2015

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	2​	28​	Luke Partington​	​	6​
National​	2​	36​	Tom Cole​	West Coast​	59​
National​	4​	57​	Kurt Mutimer​	​	4​
National​	4​	62​	Matthew Allen​	​	0​

2014

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	1​	11​	Liam Duggan​	West Coast​	105​
National​	2​	32​	Tom Lamb​	​	1​
National​	3​	51​	Jackson Nelson​	West Coast​	73​
National​	4​	66​	Damien Cavka​	​	0​
National​	5​	76​	Alec Waterman F​	Essendon​	0​

2013

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	1​	11​	Dominic Sheed​	West Coast​	122​
National​	2​	31​	Malcolm Karpany​	​	7​
National​	3​	43​	Tom Barrass​	West Coast​	86​
National​	3​	49​	Dylan Main​	​	0​
National​	4​	61​	Jamie Bennell R​	​	30​
National​	5​	74​	Jeremy McGovern R​	West Coast​	141​

 

[Buckley is my hero]

How would you know if any of our draftees are any good if none are getting any games? Take Rantall for instance. Henry is another who some people have made their minds up after one game.

 

[Gone Critical]

How would you know if any of our draftees are any good if none are getting any games? Take Rantall for instance. Henry is another who some people have made their minds up after one game.

For a bit of perspective for those worrying Collingwoood are bucking a trend by not playing their youngsters consider this

In 2019 our draft picks were 40, Rantall, 45 Bianco and 55 Ruscoe. Kids picked in this range don't play early and a fair number hardly play at all. We need to be patient

Currently of the 16 players picked between 40 and 55 or Rantall to Ruscoe 4 of them have debuted. The games totals for these 4 is 1, 2, 5 and 6 respectively. Trey Ruscoe has played more games than any player picked form pick 40-55 in the 2019 draft with a total of 6. They will play when and if they become ready. Collingwood are not holding our youngsters back even if the press is trying to create an issue with it.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

The lack of quality young talent is the big hole in our list and too many posters are being overly optimistic re the chances of the 2019-20 class making big inroads into solving our list issues

The basic problem I see is that we have very few players form the last 6 drafts who currently project to a strong AFL career. Daicos and Quaynor are the only two who you would rate at this level. Its not a surprise because we have drafted very little top end talent in the last 6 drafts. It's very hard to develop a list with minimal input from the top end of the draft. We are really asking Hine to be a wizard.

Look at our current list. If I was to nominate a top 10 it would be

Pendles
Sidey
Moore
De Goey
Howe
Daicos
Crisp
Adams
Grundy
Maynard

with IQ as the only other young player projecting to be in that group currently. 3 top 10 picks and 7 of that 11 are from top 10 or teen picks. Flip side is WHE is the only one who was drafted in that range ( not considering 2020group) who isn't a top 10 player.

From the last 6 drafts we have 2 locked in best 22 players, a few on the edge of the 22 (Browns, Sier, Kelly) and a lot of unknown.

In the last 6 drafts we currently have 3 players who were picked 13, 17 and 19 as our 3 highest draft picks left at the club. We have squandered then discarded our top end picks.

Just for comparison Carlton have 6 top 10 picks from that time and 9 from picks 1-20. Essendon 6 top 10 picks, Sydney 4 top 10 and 6 top 20. Adelaide 3 top 10 and 9 top 20. GWS 5 top 10 and 15 top 20. Gold Coast 11 top 10 picks and 13 top 20. Freo 6 top 10 and 8 top 20. I could do the full list but it's depressing.

Our lack of young quality is astounding.

We're essentially behind Essendon, Sydney, Adelaide, Fremantle, Gold Coast & Melbourne on the rebuild scale. These are teams who'll all be there-abouts in years to come

We rely so heavily on aging stars, I've got a feeling we're in for a world of hurt moving forward.

 

[Robroy22]

Here are the drafts for West Coast between 2013 and 2017. I pick that team and years because we met them in 2018 and since then, West Coast has regenerated and improved and we haven't.

They haven't had high draft picks and they haven't hit the mark on every occasion. However in Ryan and Oscar Allen, they've picked top 5 pics and you could arguably put McGovern in that bracket. They also added Barass who is probably a top 10 to 15 pick. They've also done well with their high draft picks with Duggan and Sheed. Of the 24 players drafted in those drafted, 15 are still on their list....

I'd do a comparison with the Pies but I'd get too depressed. This mob makes us look like amateurs.


2017

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	1​	13​	Jarrod Brander​	West Coast​	12​
National​	2​	21​	Oscar Allen​	West Coast​	41​
National​	2​	26​	Liam Ryan​	West Coast​	58​
National​	2​	32​	Brayden Ainsworth​	West Coast​	12​
National​	2​	38​	Jack Petruccelle​	West Coast​	31​

2016

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	1​	13​	Daniel Venables​	West Coast​	21​
National​	2​	37​	Josh Rotham​	West Coast​	17​
National​	3​	52​	Willie Rioli​	West Coast​	38​
National​	6​	77​	Jake Waterman F​	West Coast​	39​

2015

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	2​	28​	Luke Partington​	​	6​
National​	2​	36​	Tom Cole​	West Coast​	59​
National​	4​	57​	Kurt Mutimer​	​	4​
National​	4​	62​	Matthew Allen​	​	0​

2014

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	1​	11​	Liam Duggan​	West Coast​	105​
National​	2​	32​	Tom Lamb​	​	1​
National​	3​	51​	Jackson Nelson​	West Coast​	73​
National​	4​	66​	Damien Cavka​	​	0​
National​	5​	76​	Alec Waterman F​	Essendon​	0​

2013

Type	Round	Pick	Player	Current Team	Games Since Drafted *
National​	1​	11​	Dominic Sheed​	West Coast​	122​
National​	2​	31​	Malcolm Karpany​	​	7​
National​	3​	43​	Tom Barrass​	West Coast​	86​
National​	3​	49​	Dylan Main​	​	0​
National​	4​	61​	Jamie Bennell R​	​	30​
National​	5​	74​	Jeremy McGovern R​	West Coast​	141​

Markfs I'm glad you brought this up because I agree that Dekka has been getting less and less able to pick winners in the mid range like he once used to do but MORESO because I want to highlight some of the tactics being used to HIDE players from the draft.

I haven't looked too closely at all of the players you've highlighted in your WCE comparison but for instance Liam Ryan and Willie Rioli didn't play any underage interstate footy (U/18 or TAC) but were shielded from sight playing in the WAFL as rookies. Oscar Allen being a local Perth boy would have been groomed to play for the Eagles since he was kid, all they had to do was convince him to give up basketball. Yes he won a Larke medal but WCE are well known to tell their local kids that "even if they get drafted to a Victorian team, they'll get them back in 2-3 years" so Eastern state recruiters have been shying away from the WA boys for a while now (except when they're exceptional like Logan McDonald.)

Geelong (the team I've done a lot of work with) have kids "hidden" in the private and catholic schools systems down here that they are pretty keen on drafting. These kids often hail from the NT or from low socio-economic backgrounds but suddenly turn up playing for Joeys or Grammar and no-one bats an eyelid.

What I'm saying is that the downturn in recruiting finances has adversely affected the ability to "find" and track talent right across the country. So CFC has tried to partner the Oakleigh Chargers and get their talent stream....but the Eagles and Sydney and Geelong et.al are able to tap into much larger pools of talent to identify and nurture their talent and then to hide them before the draft.

It's happening all over the place too. Sydney, GWS and Gold Coast are very well served by their academies and extra draft bonuses. The clubs that bottom out and then pick up 3-4 gun picks ... things CFC hasn't done and therefore we don't get the picks in the top 10.

WCE has a distinct geographical advantage over CFC and will continue to "mine" the best players in WA because it can. The East coast and more particularly the Melbourne Clubs can only hope to bottom out quickly to replenish via the draft.

I wouldn't mind a fresh pair of eyes doing the looking for us though. A clean sweep through the club seems on the cards.

 

[Markfs]

Markfs I'm glad you brought this up because I agree that Dekka has been getting less and less able to pick winners in the mid range like he once used to do but MORESO because I want to highlight some of the tactics being used to HIDE players from the draft.

I haven't looked too closely at all of the players you've highlighted in your WCE comparison but for instance Liam Ryan and Willie Rioli didn't play any underage interstate footy (U/18 or TAC) but were shielded from sight playing in the WAFL as rookies. Oscar Allen being a local Perth boy would have been groomed to play for the Eagles since he was kid, all they had to do was convince him to give up basketball. Yes he won a Larke medal but WCE are well known to tell their local kids that "even if they get drafted to a Victorian team, they'll get them back in 2-3 years" so Eastern state recruiters have been shying away from the WA boys for a while now (except when they're exceptional like Logan McDonald.)

Geelong (the team I've done a lot of work with) have kids "hidden" in the private and catholic schools systems down here that they are pretty keen on drafting. These kids often hail from the NT or from low socio-economic backgrounds but suddenly turn up playing for Joeys or Grammar and no-one bats an eyelid.

What I'm saying is that the downturn in recruiting finances has adversely affected the ability to "find" and track talent right across the country. So CFC has tried to partner the Oakleigh Chargers and get their talent stream....but the Eagles and Sydney and Geelong et.al are able to tap into much larger pools of talent to identify and nurture their talent and then to hide them before the draft.

It's happening all over the place too. Sydney, GWS and Gold Coast are very well served by their academies and extra draft bonuses. The clubs that bottom out and then pick up 3-4 gun picks ... things CFC hasn't done and therefore we don't get the picks in the top 10.

WCE has a distinct geographical advantage over CFC and will continue to "mine" the best players in WA because it can. The East coast and more particularly the Melbourne Clubs can only hope to bottom out quickly to replenish via the draft.

I wouldn't mind a fresh pair of eyes doing the looking for us though. A clean sweep through the club seems on the cards.

You make good points that I agree with. The local WA kids are motivated to stay here - not just by their families - but by the career prospects that open up because of the connections that the weagles have.

I would say that the downturn in finances was in the last year and some of the recruiting lethargy has been evident for several years.

People make claims that Hine and his team cant get good players because they dont have the high draft picks. My post was to address that issue. It can be done and West Coast has done it, either by hook or by crook. I would argue that fremantle, adelaide and port have all recruited well locally and this has meant that they have rebounded pretty quickly.....so yes, we are at a disadvantage but it shows that it can be done.

I have argued that Hine hasn't picked good players for other reasons as well. He has steered clear of indigenous players and local african kids, in preference to high maintenance development with the irish. He seems to have maintained his favourite hard working contested player with good families etc etc model, during the whole journey and after years and years and years and years, we still seem to have problems hitting teammates on the chest.

So yes, I agree, the situation isnt simple but I'm still amazed that Hine has escaped the type of scrutiny that buckley gets.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Just on Randall,why isn’t he getting a game by now?We’ve seen Bianco and Ruscoe,but Randall hasn’t even played in a pre season game as far as I know.He’s supposed to be a running machine isn’t?He’s been winning the time trials in the preseason,so why hasn’t he been given a go yet?He’s never even been named in the emergencies.It doesn’t augur well for his career prospects.

Never seen bianco

 

[stormskye]

The lack of quality young talent is the big hole in our list and too many posters are being overly optimistic re the chances of the 2019-20 class making big inroads into solving our list issues

The basic problem I see is that we have very few players form the last 6 drafts who currently project to a strong AFL career. Daicos and Quaynor are the only two who you would rate at this level. Its not a surprise because we have drafted very little top end talent in the last 6 drafts. It's very hard to develop a list with minimal input from the top end of the draft. We are really asking Hine to be a wizard.

Look at our current list. If I was to nominate a top 10 it would be

Pendles
Sidey
Moore
De Goey
Howe
Daicos
Crisp
Adams
Grundy
Maynard

with IQ as the only other young player projecting to be in that group currently. 3 top 10 picks and 7 of that 11 are from top 10 or teen picks. Flip side is WHE is the only one who was drafted in that range ( not considering 2020group) who isn't a top 10 player.

From the last 6 drafts we have 2 locked in best 22 players, a few on the edge of the 22 (Browns, Sier, Kelly) and a lot of unknown.

In the last 6 drafts we currently have 3 players who were picked 13, 17 and 19 as our 3 highest draft picks left at the club. We have squandered then discarded our top end picks.

Just for comparison Carlton have 6 top 10 picks from that time and 9 from picks 1-20. Essendon 6 top 10 picks, Sydney 4 top 10 and 6 top 20. Adelaide 3 top 10 and 9 top 20. GWS 5 top 10 and 15 top 20. Gold Coast 11 top 10 picks and 13 top 20. Freo 6 top 10 and 8 top 20. I could do the full list but it's depressing.

Lack of talent falls squarely on trading/drafting and throwing out first rounders . Another reason why our entire club needs a refresh.

 

[cityslick1]

Its interesting to hear commentators applaud Beveridge, Hardwick and Longmire for integrity of selection. In that they are prepared to drop players irrespective of who they are for poor form or discipline reasons, and to promote players who are in form
Collingwood do neither....
It used to be reported that the hardest thing in sport was a NSW player to be dropped from the Australian Test side... hoever the Test side has nothing on Collingwood...
Both Brown's, WHE, Thomas, Mayne and Sidebottom have had poor periods over the past 18 months. Yet....
Should one get dropped they are recalled without having any form behind them...
We keep picking the same players and continually get the same results (whilst expecting something different). Lets start picking for the future. Lets start picking players on exposed form. Lets make an example of the undisciplined. If they cant get a game, move them on!!!!

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Funny isnt it. Can almost foresee it in the media write-up if Buck's is forced to depart at season end... "including an unwillingness to be creative at the selection table, which led to de-motivation within the younger playing group..."

 

[cityslick1]

Just on Randall,why isn’t he getting a game by now?We’ve seen Bianco and Ruscoe,but Randall hasn’t even played in a pre season game as far as I know.He’s supposed to be a running machine isn’t?He’s been winning the time trials in the preseason,so why hasn’t he been given a go yet?He’s never even been named in the emergencies.It doesn’t augur well for his career prospects.

disposal... which is also ironic in a way

 

[cityslick1]

You make good points that I agree with. The local WA kids are motivated to stay here - not just by their families - but by the career prospects that open up because of the connections that the weagles have.

I would say that the downturn in finances was in the last year and some of the recruiting lethargy has been evident for several years.

People make claims that Hine and his team cant get good players because they dont have the high draft picks. My post was to address that issue. It can be done and West Coast has done it, either by hook or by crook. I would argue that fremantle, adelaide and port have all recruited well locally and this has meant that they have rebounded pretty quickly.....so yes, we are at a disadvantage but it shows that it can be done.

I have argued that Hine hasn't picked good players for other reasons as well. He has steered clear of indigenous players and local african kids, in preference to high maintenance development with the irish. He seems to have maintained his favourite hard working contested player with good families etc etc model, during the whole journey and after years and years and years and years, we still seem to have problems hitting teammates on the chest.

So yes, I agree, the situation isnt simple but I'm still amazed that Hine has escaped the type of scrutiny that buckley gets.

some great comments in this thread, including this one. WA kids do often scare off Vic recruiters due to the 'go home' factor / risk, but your Irish and 'great character' points are v important, and hasnt been fleshed out enough. Richmond have proven that you can turn great talent into great footballers, with the right environment. Whereas we seem hellbent on kids who would deliver an apple pie to your grandma... dressed up as "will take instruction well". Sounds good in theory, but Callum Brown, Mayne, Lynch, Tohill, Bianco, Appelby and WHE are / were all great and hard-working lads, though none have helped us win many games. WHE the only one with pace too.

Cant discount the lack of early picks in the past few years though. Two reasons for this... the club trading away so many picks (obvious), but also the fact that we have over-achieved in ladder position, and been left with minimal high picks. Which... we haven't been able to off-set with great trades (2020 debacle) and signing high end free agents. Poor list management and contractual decisions being the cherry on top. Perfect storm for Hine & Bucks to have to contend with, so i still dont completely blame those two. Not that they are without fault...

 

[nahnah]

All I will say is Poulter and McMahon better be bloody good players because right now we have given the giants pick 6 and that's after 4 games with a healthy list

 

[mike123]

Pick 57 - Tyler Brown (another gift wrapped player)

And not a particularly good one

 

[mike123]

Hine hasn't really had the picks to work with. The hits we've had we just needed to trade because we stuffed up our contract management, not because of bad drafting. My biggest criticism of Hine is his approach to drafting key position forwards. I feel he undervalues them. But otherwise I think Hine and our drafting is a strength of our footy department.

My problem with most of those picks is the lack of variety and the lack of X factor. Why are we taking vanilla soldiers late in the draft? Surely take a risk on someone with potential then a solid citizen that will amount to nothing.

 

[sr36]

I haven't looked too closely at all of the players you've highlighted in your WCE comparison but for instance Liam Ryan and Willie Rioli didn't play any underage interstate footy (U/18 or TAC) but were shielded from sight playing in the WAFL as rookies.

Liam Ryan isn't a good example. He wasn't hidden. For some reason he was on the nose with recruiters - incliding WCE. He kicked over 50 goals in the WAAFL with speckies galore and not even West Coast drafted him. The following year, he kicked over 70 and then WCE drafted him with a second rounder. He must have had an appalling attitude.

 

[mike123]

Liam Ryan isn't a good example. He wasn't hidden. For some reason he was on the nose with recruiters - incliding WCE. He kicked over 50 goals in the WAAFL with speckies galore and not even West Coast drafted him. The following year, he kicked over 70 and then WCE drafted him with a second rounder. He must have had an appalling attitude.

I don’t remember Rioli being hidden either he was just fat

 

[loki04]

disposal... which is also ironic in a way

Is it really that bad? I know its a extremely limited subset but the one game I have seen him in last years preseason match, his disposal was pretty good. Also got it outside the contest enough and broke from the pack well too.

 

[loki04]

I don’t remember Rioli being hidden either he was just fat

I wanted us to rookie him in his draft year, my argument is weight and work ethic can be taught speed, skill, game sense and xfactor traits cant be.

 

[Maggie5]

Not sure why I did this but looking at our list, doesn't look too hopeful for the future when this is half our list. (Games played under 40).
Sure there are a couple of 'gems' in Daicos and Quaynor but unless there are a couple more, I am pretty much prepared for disappointment in the next three years no matter who is coach.