Dud Pub Sold.

[Bay Pie]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pies-lose-5-million-on-pub-sale-20110806-1igsr.html

COLLINGWOOD Football Club has dumped its toxic investment in Albert Park's Beach Hotel for $2 million, after former chief executive Eugene Arocca paid $7 million for the underperforming business in in 2006.


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...on-pub-sale-20110806-1igsr.html#ixzz1UKSqcgp5

Not concerned with the headline. We had already written the business value back in the last few years. I think we owed a remaining $3M on the initial Pub deals. That should now be $1M and will get cleaned up this year and we still own the other better performing Pubs.

Happy Days from a dud investment.​

 

[HFF]

So who was responsible for this, Euge or Swann?

Ironic that we have gone from strength to strength with both of them gone.

 

[Antz]

Good news. So whats our financial position like now? How are our other pubs going?

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

So who was responsible for this, Euge or Swann?

Ironic that we have gone from strength to strength with both of them gone.

Eddie McGuire.

Dud pubs have cost the club over $10mil of members money

 

[kevind]

Eddie McGuire.

Dud pubs have cost the club over $10mil of members money

Spot on.

Arocca and Swan are easy targets now that they work elsewhere. Eddie would have had to be the person who signed off on the deal and so should shoulder the blame.

After a long barren period, though, everything seems to be coming up roses.

 

[jerry springer]

well it got a fair bit of business this week thats for sure

 

[Bay Pie]

So who was responsible for this, Euge or Swann?

Both were heavily involved.

I doubt very much it was Eds' soul fault. Many people involved with deals of this size and nature. I'd say it would have required board sign off.

After where we were in 1999 when Ed come on board as President and where we are now, I think we can forgive him for being involved in this one.

 

[kevind]

Both were heavily involved.

I doubt very much it was Eds' soul fault. Many people involved with deals of this size and nature. I'd say it would have required board sign off.

After where we were in 1999 when Ed come on board as President and where we are now, I think we can forgive him for being involved in this one.

Like all club Presidents, he should be praised for his good work, and there are lots of examples of that. But he should also be held to account for his mistakes, like the pubs debacle.

Too many supporters are too willing to lay the blame at the feet of Arocca and Swan and overlook Eddie's obvious involvement.

It is one of only a few blemishes in what has been a very successful presidency.

 

[Heater39]

Good news, now lets never speak of this again.

 

[mattys123]

Good news, now lets never speak of this again.

Hear, Hear.

We as a club ****ed up, and we as a club cleaned up our own mess, eventually.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Like all club Presidents, he should be praised for his good work, and there are lots of examples of that. But he should also be held to account for his mistakes, like the pubs debacle.

Too many supporters are too willing to lay the blame at the feet of Arocca and Swan and overlook Eddie's obvious involvement.

It is one of only a few blemishes in what has been a very successful presidency.

If Eddie McGuire is largely responsible for us having $10 million in the bank, then it seems churlish to criticise him for a partial involvement in a bad investment suggested by our CEO and CFO - One would hope the board would be willing to trust the recommendations of those employed to do such things.

One would think that it might suggest a gap in the business acumen of our board members - Maybe we need to get a real-estate mogul on the board who could have recognised The Beach Hotel as a money pit.

 

[Geelong_Bisons_#36]

Not surprising that this pub failed badly.

I went there a few years ago and everyone there was on drugs. Hard to make much money when all u sell is bottled water to the pill-heads.

 

[fabulousphil]

If they buy pubs, they should be buying pubs that connect the club to the area, where the name and soul of the club comes from.

Aviary, The 271 Victoria Street Abbotsford
Bakers Arms Hotel 355 Victoria Street Abbotsford
Carringbush Hotel 228 Langridge StreetAbbotsford
Good Head BeerBC 176 Hoddle StreetAbbotsford
Idgaffm 160 Hoddle StreetAbbotsford
Laird Hote 149 Gipps StreetAbbotsford
Park Hotel 191 Nicholson StreetAbbotsford
Retreat Hotel 226 Nicholson StreetAbbotsford
Terminus Hotel 605 Victoria StreetAbbotsford
Vic, The 281 Victoria StreetAbbotsford
Yarra Hotel 295 Johnston StreetAbbotsford
Yorkshire Hotel 48 Hoddle StreetAbbotsford

A Bar Called Barry 64 Smith StreetCollingwood
Acoustic Cafe 187 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Baden Powell Hotel 61 Victoria ParadeCollingwood
Barley Corn Hotel 177 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Bendigo Hotel 125 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Blue Tile Lounge 95 Smith StreetCollingwood
Blue Velvet 60 Smith StreetCollingwood
British Crown o 14 Smith StreetCollingwood
Cavallero 300 Smith StreetCollingwood
Caz Reitop's Dirty Secrets 80 Smith StreetCollingwood
Fox Hotel 351 Wellington StreetCollingwood
Gasometer Hotel 484 Smith StreetCollingwood
Gem, The 289 Wellington StreetCollingwood
Glasshouse Hotel 51 Gipps StreetCollingwood
Grace Darling Hotel 114 Smith StreetCollingwood
Leinster Arms Hotel 66 Gold StreetCollingwood
Peel, The 113 Wellington StreetCollingwood
Prince Patrick Hotel o 135 Victoria ParadeCollingwood
Punters Palace Hotel 314 Smith StreetCollingwood
Robert Burns Hote 376 Smith StreetCollingwood
Suede 284 Smith StreetCollingwood
Templebar 98 Smith StreetCollingwood
Tote Hotel 71 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Vine Hotel 59 Wellington Street Collingwood

Lets face it, some of those pubs, are not going to work, but some of these pubs have great connections with club, the Yarra Hotel, was where the players ran from in Collingwoods first ever game, the club was hatched at the Grace Darling.

After reserves games at Vic Park, awards etc could be held at one of the local pubs.

If done right, could be a good money spinner.

 

[MarkT2]

Staggeringly inept this whole episode. We've been told for 3 or 4 years now this pub had been sold. We should have another $10m in the kitty and the scapegoating that has gone on is pretty poor as well.

This will all be washed into a massive profit on the back of the flag and a great season on the field but make no mistake this was terrible management from plan to execution to exit.

Eddie and co have done a lot right but they have done a fair bit wrong over the years as well. Have to accept the bricks as well as the bouquets.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Curious, what's a Football Club doing in the business of running a pub?

Fair enough if it's got something to do with the core business of running a footy club, or if being a footy club offers a business advantage (Pie in the Sky Travel being a great example of an aligned business that makes sense).

Fair enough too if there's some heritage value (good call FPhil).

But what did the Beach Hotel offer? (Or even the Diamond Creek hotel or Caroline Springs, etc, etc?)

Hmmm.

And while we're at it, do any of the members here feel they have a good sense of what the Victoria Park development is all about? Great idea having this heritage venue for our VFL side to play at, and the headline of having community centre there seems like a good idea - but there's been precious little detail of what it's actually all about.

 

[standingroomonly]

Curious, what's a Football Club doing in the business of running a pub?

Diversifying revenue.

All those venues have gaming machines which deliver a consistent stream of income. The problem with The Beach was that they bought a the top of the market and the venue already headed downhill when they took over, also the amount of machines was reduced without the rent being reduced so the potential earnings plummeted which resulted in the write downs.

 

[Pie eyed]

When the Pub went bad, Eddie etal copped their share of bricks.
To say they have not is myopic in the extreme.
When the various sales mooted fell through, same, bricks were copped.
Now we have them off the books I think it's fair to abstain from further bricks, while acknowledging the FU.

I'm no accountant, but it would seem to me any loss would be a sizable tax write-off anyway....no?

I'll be happy to regard the entire Hotels Saga as something which occurred pre-Machine II era and focus on Mick and Bucks crumbling relationship and the urgent need for a new Captain, since we are struggling so much of late.

 

[MarkT2]

When the Pub went bad, Eddie etal copped their share of bricks.
To say they have not is myopic in the extreme.

Two points which bother(ed) me.

Firstly, a lot of the criticism they did cop was hysterically defended by a lot of serial hysterical defenders. These people are great for pushing revenue our way but terrible for keeping the club accountable. There are actually reasons we haven't won flags over the last half century. Now we have positioned ourselves to win some we need to keep the foot down. It's easy to get complacent.

Secondly, Eddie etal did not really accept responsibility. Some token words at an AGM, blame of the dpeparted and a 3 year sale process.

In the end we'll make a bucket load this year and we've worn a lot of the loss in previous financials which will mask the impact but this has been the worst off field financial foray in our entire history. The school was a costly exercise but it would actually have made money had we been able to hang on long enough to develop the property. Problem was the club was so poorly run at the time we had little hope of hanging on.

 

[lgarth80]

In the end we'll make a bucket load this year and we've worn a lot of the loss in previous financials which will mask the impact but this has been the worst off field financial foray in our entire history. The school was a costly exercise but it would actually have made money had we been able to hang on long enough to develop the property. Problem was the club was so poorly run at the time we had little hope of hanging on.

Not so sure. Reckon the debt of the 1980s (New Magpies) which was footy related but still irresponsible was worse. Luckily it led to the youth driven (Keith Burns) 1990 premiership and solvency returned.

Similarly the Viatel sponsorship and Cooper on Eddie's first board were two huge issues - I reckon probably just as big as the pubs, however the club has slowly moved forwards and improved on both counts.

Eddie has through his contacts got the Pies the best CEO and footy department heads in the business. Pert can stand up to McGuire, and often does which is a healthy thing in business - he's not a fanboy like Arocca. Geoff Walsh has never taken a backward step in his life, and is a huge reason for the 2010 flag, and our current dominant footy department.

Eddie enquired on both of these two while probably in contract, then when they were poised to leave their clubs, they were appropriately brought to Collingwood - when both are equivalent CEOs.

Eddie is equally to blame for the pubs as these decisions (and others like the cheersquad debacle). I think he's earned enough credits to avoid continual cheap shots from the sidelines, from bitter and twisted individuals.

That said, I'm really happy we have some very strong bulls at Collingwood in all areas that can tell everyone to pull their heads in when required.

That's what makes a strong footy club.

 

[lgarth80]

A quick history lesson from the Herald Sun in 2002 via a very decent alternate magpies forum. It's a bit fanboy written but shows just how much trouble we were in pre-Eddie. That comment at the Carlton game in the article sums it all up.

http://nick.magpies.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4616

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Eddie is equally to blame for the pubs as these decisions (and others like the cheersquad debacle). I think he's earned enough credits to avoid continual cheap shots from the sidelines, from bitter and twisted individuals.

What is the cheersquad debacle?

 

[Pie eyed]

Two points which bother(ed) me.

Firstly, a lot of the criticism they did cop was hysterically defended by a lot of serial hysterical defenders. These people are great for pushing revenue our way but terrible for keeping the club accountable. There are actually reasons we haven't won flags over the last half century. Now we have positioned ourselves to win some we need to keep the foot down. It's easy to get complacent.

Secondly, Eddie etal did not really accept responsibility. Some token words at an AGM, blame of the dpeparted and a 3 year sale process.

In the end we'll make a bucket load this year and we've worn a lot of the loss in previous financials which will mask the impact but this has been the worst off field financial foray in our entire history. The school was a costly exercise but it would actually have made money had we been able to hang on long enough to develop the property. Problem was the club was so poorly run at the time we had little hope of hanging on.

Personally I see Eddie as being "where the buck stops by default", the pubs deal being done while he was at Channel Nine, in Sydney. Sure he has a share of the blame and he has taken it. Swann and Arrocca were the two key persons responsible so I think it's fair they share some of the blame...don't you?

If you insist on pulling his pants down and giving him a public spanking and some harsh words then I'm afraid you'll have to tee that up with Eddie.

Some times in life we all make mistakes and errors of judgement.

A lot of people forget that the President is an unpaid job and that financially the buck actually stops and emanates from the CEO's office.

 

[MarkT2]

Not so sure. Reckon the debt of the 1980s (New Magpies) which was footy related but still irresponsible was worse. Luckily it led to the youth driven (Keith Burns) 1990 premiership and solvency returned.

I guess that was the end result of a strategy that lead to a number of poor decisions on players rather than one big one. Either way a fair call on your part - a completely disasterous period.

Similarly the Viatel sponsorship and Cooper on Eddie's first board were two huge issues - I reckon probably just as big as the pubs, however the club has slowly moved forwards and improved on both counts.

Moved forward to a point. Still always fill board positions with casual vacancies and drive through uncontested elections. Eddie doesn't actually prevent elections but there isn't any point standing when retirements are replaced a year or so out and anyone wanting to stand is treated as hostile.

Eddie has through his contacts got the Pies the best CEO and footy department heads in the business. Pert can stand up to McGuire, and often does which is a healthy thing in business - he's not a fanboy like Arocca. Geoff Walsh has never taken a backward step in his life, and is a huge reason for the 2010 flag, and our current dominant footy department.

Eddie enquired on both of these two while probably in contract, then when they were poised to leave their clubs, they were appropriately brought to Collingwood - when both are equivalent CEOs.

Eddie is equally to blame for the pubs as these decisions (and others like the cheersquad debacle). I think he's earned enough credits to avoid continual cheap shots from the sidelines, from bitter and twisted individuals.

Don't know if you think I am one of those individuals but I have nothing to be bitter about. I've waited a long time for the club to be where it is now and I am happy that we are where we are. I've often acknowledged what Eddie has achieved and in the end all I have ever been after is for the club to set up to win premierships and then deliver. I do hate that so many of our fans get so uptight if anything negative is said though.

That said, I'm really happy we have some very strong bulls at Collingwood in all areas that can tell everyone to pull their heads in when required.

That's what makes a strong footy club.

That and accountability but you always need some level of tension from inside and outside. Football clubs, like many organisations get complacent.

 

[bradrowe#32]

A quick history lesson from the Herald Sun in 2002 via a very decent alternate magpies forum. It's a bit fanboy written but shows just how much trouble we were in pre-Eddie. That comment at the Carlton game in the article sums it all up.

http://nick.magpies.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4616

Great article, cheers for posting that.

 

[lgarth80]

Moved forward to a point. Still always fill board positions with casual vacancies and drive through uncontested elections. Eddie doesn't actually prevent elections but there isn't any point standing when retirements are replaced a year or so out and anyone wanting to stand is treated as hostile.

Yeah it is hard to see him handing over in a good way which is a shame because good succession planning involves being man enough to allow for refreshment of the board through the members.

For what it's worth I don't like Kennett's running of the Hawthorn Football Club but believe his approach on succession planning is bang on the mark. Keeps people fresh and doing what they do best, and frees him up to do other things.

If Eddie can think through a smart succession plan to his role, after already doing so for the coaching, and CEO role, it will be a feather to his cap, but in order to do that, he needs to not altogether encourage dissent, but work out a way that the entire club can handle differences well. Not many organisations sort this sort of stuff out (it takes years) but those who do become "built to last" sort of successes.

Don't know if you think I am one of those individuals but I have nothing to be bitter about. I've waited a long time for the club to be where it is now and I am happy that we are where we are. I've often acknowledged what Eddie has achieved and in the end all I have ever been after is for the club to set up to win premierships and then deliver. I do hate that so many of our fans get so uptight if anything negative is said though.

Mark I reckon often you are one of the voices of reason on this site, and it's refreshing hearing your viewpoints.

Just reckon Eddie gets some credits in the bank. Don't worry, if his board makes a few more stuff ups that he's not prepared to admit, that he covers over, doesn't make amends, etc, I will join you in the ranks of those giving choice advice.

TBH Collingwood is strong now, but like a young 10 year oak, not quite with the roots to handle the success. If Eddie matures in his leadership and learns how to be calm when a crisis comes (e.g. like Gary Pert), and learns how to handle differences well (something sadly I don't think he will learn), along with Buckley/Malthouse, they can build a second phase of Magpie dominance on and off the field - something all of us are keen to see happen.