O
Old Spice
Guest
Seconded, a terrific read.
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- Thread starter Bay Pie
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Seconded, a terrific read.
We are in a very interesting place. With a team capable of winning a few flags so long as it is handled well and the list is well managed going forward, we could make enough money to secure our future for a long time to come. IMO Eddie is a great money maker but not a great money user/keeper. Hopefully the CEO and finance team can play a strong role there.
The landscape will change though. There will be enourmous pressure mounting when our financials show how much we make in the next few years and how much we spend on the football department. Ultimately the AFL will look at a revised distribution formula which itself won be enough. They will look at equalising other revenues and capping football department spending. The noises have already been heard and ignored but this postseason will see the start of the building pressure. If we manage to win a couple of flags we'll be making $10m profits AFTER spending $5m more than most on the footy department.
O
Old Spice
Guest
It's one thing to redistribute tv rights money and gate receipts, but merchandise, memberships, sponsorship etc I wouldn't think would be touchable.
But worth making hay while the sun is shining and trying to make big investments into some valuable fixed assets and the money generating departments.
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Ultimately the AFL could do just about as it pleases so long as there aren't enough clubs to vote the Commission out. Most mechandising is already AFL revenue. We get a retail margin at our outlet but if you buy a jumper at an AFL outlet at the G it is AFL revenue. The AFL could take a bigger cut of memberships and justify it for a number of reasons. The pressure will mount soon IMO.
O
Old Spice
Guest
Limiting footy department spending would be the final frontier and clubs may as well under that situation dissolve themselves. There would be no point attempting to raise money / grow memberships and supporters if spending on players and football departments ends at 25 million or so.
I really can't see that happening.
^ To stop Collingwood dominating, I wouldn't put it past them.
O
Old Spice
Guest
There's no doubt they love to get their tentacles across as much as they can, but I think even the AFL recognise that this would effectively efface what is unique in terms of clubs being independent and adversarial.
Straight off the top you'd have Collingwood, Essendon, WC and Hawthorn opposing it from a purely material standpoint. But in terms of those hoping to go above the breadline and into profit making - which buys your club much more independence, home games etc - almost every other club you'd think would oppose it.
It's hard enough trying to keep players under the salary cap, but can you imagine the same thing with your coaching panel or fitness staff.
Straight off the top you'd have Collingwood, Essendon, WC and Hawthorn opposing it from a purely material standpoint. But in terms of those hoping to go above the breadline and into profit making - which buys your club much more independence, home games etc - almost every other club you'd think would oppose it.
It's hard enough trying to keep players under the salary cap, but can you imagine the same thing with your coaching panel or fitness staff.
Anyone see an of the footy shows last night? They all mentioned the "inequity" of spending. Trust me pressure is mounting quickly and when our financils are released there will be a lot more noise. If we happen to win the flag with the highest spending and a big profit (take the latter 2 for granted) there will be hysteria.
^ Exactly. This is the issue. The AFL will bow to pressure, even if it isn't the right thing to do.
If they try it, the big 4 clubs should look at legal avenues to stop it happening (not sure if that is possible)- and if that fails, they should take other action which will affect the AFL financially.
If they try it, the big 4 clubs should look at legal avenues to stop it happening (not sure if that is possible)- and if that fails, they should take other action which will affect the AFL financially.
The site of a legendary, improptu party after the 1990 GF. Would be a great addition
Buck stops with president.
If Eddie signs off on a new investment strategy which includes purchases of pubs without proper due dilligence then he is at fault for the problems encountered.
In the end the buck stops with him. No doubt about it.
The buck also stops with him being the man who engineered the club's resurgence from the previous administration who while possessing a great(er) love for the club and its heritage, were not able to translate this into business acumen.
Every person is not all good, nor all bad, but a healthy mix of both. Given that mix, I'm pretty happy we have people at Collingwood who know their roles and play them.
It's great when you can be sure that Pert is responsible for the business, Walsh is responsible for the footy, McGuire is responsible for the brand, and they on the whole don't step on each other's feet.
That delineation of roles is what's making the Malthouse "director of coaching" so difficult to create without hurting the impact Walsh has at the club.
I think it will take the best of all management to arrange the best handover of the club from one successful era to another, and so far, I think Eddie has the right to build this.
As for whether he and his board and the "casual vacancy fillers" are the only people who can do this, I'm not certain.
A shade more humility and teamwork from Eddie, and I can see him removing his main blindspot.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
Couldn't agree more. I've always been more worried about the Malthouse v Walsh issue than the Malthouse v Buckley issue.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
It's a smart idea to have succession planning for all the operational roles within the club, but I do think the President is different. That's a political role and the law of the jungle applies there.
If the President had a succession plan for himself, we'd probably end up with one of two things: Either a useless lackey who isn't going to be a threat to him, or an Eddie disciple who is going to simply maintain his legacy. Neither of these things would be healthy for the club. (No offence intended to Eddie, that's just the way I think politial succession plans work).
Pie eyed
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Just for arguments sake...
Nominate a successor to Eddie adding why.
I may actually start a thread on this...
I have done this.....
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21880551#post21880551
Nominate a successor to Eddie adding why.
I may actually start a thread on this...
I have done this.....
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21880551#post21880551
If they buy pubs, they should be buying pubs that connect the club to the area, where the name and soul of the club comes from.
Aviary, The 271 Victoria Street Abbotsford
Bakers Arms Hotel 355 Victoria Street Abbotsford
Carringbush Hotel 228 Langridge StreetAbbotsford
Good Head BeerBC 176 Hoddle StreetAbbotsford
Idgaffm 160 Hoddle StreetAbbotsford
Laird Hote 149 Gipps StreetAbbotsford
Park Hotel 191 Nicholson StreetAbbotsford
Retreat Hotel 226 Nicholson StreetAbbotsford
Terminus Hotel 605 Victoria StreetAbbotsford
Vic, The 281 Victoria StreetAbbotsford
Yarra Hotel 295 Johnston StreetAbbotsford
Yorkshire Hotel 48 Hoddle StreetAbbotsford
A Bar Called Barry 64 Smith StreetCollingwood
Acoustic Cafe 187 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Baden Powell Hotel 61 Victoria ParadeCollingwood
Barley Corn Hotel 177 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Bendigo Hotel 125 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Blue Tile Lounge 95 Smith StreetCollingwood
Blue Velvet 60 Smith StreetCollingwood
British Crown o 14 Smith StreetCollingwood
Cavallero 300 Smith StreetCollingwood
Caz Reitop's Dirty Secrets 80 Smith StreetCollingwood
Fox Hotel 351 Wellington StreetCollingwood
Gasometer Hotel 484 Smith StreetCollingwood
Gem, The 289 Wellington StreetCollingwood
Glasshouse Hotel 51 Gipps StreetCollingwood
Grace Darling Hotel 114 Smith StreetCollingwood
Leinster Arms Hotel 66 Gold StreetCollingwood
Peel, The 113 Wellington StreetCollingwood
Prince Patrick Hotel o 135 Victoria ParadeCollingwood
Punters Palace Hotel 314 Smith StreetCollingwood
Robert Burns Hote 376 Smith StreetCollingwood
Suede 284 Smith StreetCollingwood
Templebar 98 Smith StreetCollingwood
Tote Hotel 71 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Vine Hotel 59 Wellington Street Collingwood
Lets face it, some of those pubs,are not going to work, but some of these pubs have great connections with club, the Yarra Hotel, was where the players ran from in Collingwoods first ever game, the club was hatched at the Grace Darling.
After reserves games at Vic Park, awards etc could be held at one of the local pubs.
If done right, could be a good money spinner.
Further to this, and being a history buff, i have found a website that lists 101 Hotels that were within Collingwood/Abbotsford and Clifton Hill, with only five being in Clifton Hill.
Must have been quite a place, and of course they do not list all the sly grog shops.
http://www.collingwoodhs.org.au/index.php?p=1_16_Hotels
They have maps and a write up about each Hotel, great website, and BTW there is simply no reason why if a Collinwood pub came on the market close to Vic Park the club should not buy it, for after Vic park functions/ reserves games etc.
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If they buy pubs, they should be buying pubs that connect the club to the area, where the name and soul of the club comes from.
Aviary, The 271 Victoria Street Abbotsford
Bakers Arms Hotel 355 Victoria Street Abbotsford
Carringbush Hotel 228 Langridge StreetAbbotsford
Good Head BeerBC 176 Hoddle StreetAbbotsford
Idgaffm 160 Hoddle StreetAbbotsford
Laird Hote 149 Gipps StreetAbbotsford
Park Hotel 191 Nicholson StreetAbbotsford
Retreat Hotel 226 Nicholson StreetAbbotsford
Terminus Hotel 605 Victoria StreetAbbotsford
Vic, The 281 Victoria StreetAbbotsford
Yarra Hotel 295 Johnston StreetAbbotsford
Yorkshire Hotel 48 Hoddle StreetAbbotsford
A Bar Called Barry 64 Smith StreetCollingwood
Acoustic Cafe 187 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Baden Powell Hotel 61 Victoria ParadeCollingwood
Barley Corn Hotel 177 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Bendigo Hotel 125 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Blue Tile Lounge 95 Smith StreetCollingwood
Blue Velvet 60 Smith StreetCollingwood
British Crown o 14 Smith StreetCollingwood
Cavallero 300 Smith StreetCollingwood
Caz Reitop's Dirty Secrets 80 Smith StreetCollingwood
Fox Hotel 351 Wellington StreetCollingwood
Gasometer Hotel 484 Smith StreetCollingwood
Gem, The 289 Wellington StreetCollingwood
Glasshouse Hotel 51 Gipps StreetCollingwood
Grace Darling Hotel 114 Smith StreetCollingwood
Leinster Arms Hotel 66 Gold StreetCollingwood
Peel, The 113 Wellington StreetCollingwood
Prince Patrick Hotel o 135 Victoria ParadeCollingwood
Punters Palace Hotel 314 Smith StreetCollingwood
Robert Burns Hote 376 Smith StreetCollingwood
Suede 284 Smith StreetCollingwood
Templebar 98 Smith StreetCollingwood
Tote Hotel 71 Johnston StreetCollingwood
Vine Hotel 59 Wellington Street Collingwood
Lets face it, some of those pubs,
After reserves games at Vic Park, awards etc could be held at one of the local pubs.
If done right, could be a good money spinner.
Whilst I understand your logic in posting this i would have to respectfully disagree.
I work in finance specifically investments and diversification accross all asset classes is the golden rule to sustainability and capital security.
This same rule typically applies to property, you want to spread your assets (or properties in this instance) accross as much area as possible, this protects the portfolio against uncertainty such as property prices dropping in one particular area. If this happens, you dont want your entire property portfolio to take a hit. The area is nice, and seems to be growing with some promising new developments, makes sense to buy there, a shame it didnt work. I feel pretty safe as they seem to know what they are doing, we arent exactly a poor club!
Whilst I understand your logic in posting this i would have to respectfully disagree.
I work in finance specifically investments and diversification accross all asset classes is the golden rule to sustainability and capital security.
This same rule typically applies to property, you want to spread your assets (or properties in this instance) accross as much area as possible, this protects the portfolio against uncertainty such as property prices dropping in one particular area. If this happens, you dont want your entire property portfolio to take a hit. The area is nice, and seems to be growing with some promising new developments, makes sense to buy there, a shame it didnt work. I feel pretty safe as they seem to know what they are doing, we arent exactly a poor club!
Future investment in pubs will not happen. CFC already over exposed in that area that cost the club dearly. I can understand some support for considering an historic/emotional purchase of the 'Grace Darling' for example, however this would only work if the club was still operating & playing out of Vic Park & could be used as a supporters pub. A CFC pub near the MCG might work, however even then, supporters would only visit on match day for a few hours pre & post game, leaving the business to operate in a very competitive market for the other 6 days a week.
The club is better off spreading 'spare' funds into a mixture of short term & long term investments (stocks & bonds, high yield investment properties etc).
The club should always have a strong balance sheet going forward & should guarantee (it's members) to always have a 'particular' amount of cash on hand ($10 million) to cover any unforeseen circumstances.
nb maybe they could one day consider a strategic purchase of an NRL club (with solid poker machine earnings) & use as an additional revenue source (created by economies of scale - operating costs) & also use as a means of developing alternative talent for CFC.
I agree
Unfortunatly bonds are pretty ordinary at the moment and you are almost better off putting your capital into a fixed interest dealio. returns are arguably the same over a 5-10 year period with obvious benefits for the club and its members with capital retention.
Equities should never happen though because of the volitity of the foreign and domestic markets, It's just too easy to lose it all in a heart beat even if you take a conservative approach. The club is loaded enough atm to not have to worry about high risk high reward tactics like that imo.
The nature of the organisation is that property is probably king because you can attract physical customers (members,fans) in, I guess they feel they have more control over this than say the asx.
MWith all the talk of selling the pubs and proprty investment I think its important to reiterate that this was not a property investment - we did not buy the pubs only the leasehold and onoing business (and then got screwed on the lease terms when things turned down.)
Had we bought the freehold we arguably would have had a lot more options than we did and would definitely have been able to exit earlier (as any sale was subject to approval by the owner, who refused because he had us over a barrel).
Another salutary lesson that has hopefully been learned - investment in different property classses is one thing, particularly where you are dealing with reasonably liquid assets, but when effectively buying an income strem with associated open ended liabilities such as this in an area outside your core business you need to be even more vigilent on downside protection and ease of exit. The problem with investment in pub leaseholds is you have all the disadvantages of derivarive investments with the added problem of high initial capital costs. Whoever did the due diligence on this purchase was either incompetent or corrupt, and it speaks of a board who at least at the time was not properly applying principles of risk management appropriate to the nature of the organisation.
As much as I would like to see some grilling on this at the AGM, my primary concern would be to drill down on the question of what have we learned and how are we going to avoind this in future - and if there are not some changes to the risk assesment and audit committee then Ill be pissed off.
Had we bought the freehold we arguably would have had a lot more options than we did and would definitely have been able to exit earlier (as any sale was subject to approval by the owner, who refused because he had us over a barrel).
Another salutary lesson that has hopefully been learned - investment in different property classses is one thing, particularly where you are dealing with reasonably liquid assets, but when effectively buying an income strem with associated open ended liabilities such as this in an area outside your core business you need to be even more vigilent on downside protection and ease of exit. The problem with investment in pub leaseholds is you have all the disadvantages of derivarive investments with the added problem of high initial capital costs. Whoever did the due diligence on this purchase was either incompetent or corrupt, and it speaks of a board who at least at the time was not properly applying principles of risk management appropriate to the nature of the organisation.
As much as I would like to see some grilling on this at the AGM, my primary concern would be to drill down on the question of what have we learned and how are we going to avoind this in future - and if there are not some changes to the risk assesment and audit committee then Ill be pissed off.
Just for interests sake Ladies and Gents.
Hotel applications in Chirnside Park have been raised and defeated for years in the outer east including submissions from Wally Elmes, the founder of the Dorset Gardens hotel and The York on Lilydale Resort.
None have come close until this.
http://www.vcgr.vic.gov.au/CA256F800017E8D4/WebObj/6E9CE7D84EB0A59ECA25789B0023F4C7/$File/EastRidgeClubdecision25May2011.pdf
http://lilydale-yarra-valley-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/chirnside-park-beer-barn/
All the best.
Well the Victorian commission for gambling regulation decision can no longer be reproduced, but i have had it saved for a while, and i would keep an ear out for the East Ridge developement if i was a Collingwood supporter
The Yarra hotel would be a better pub to buy, very close to Vic Park, and over the years thousands upon thousands of fans have drank there, the pub could be run as both a normal pub, catering for locals and walk by traffic, and in football season as a function pub for after reserves games etc.
And as a function centre for small, book ahead parties/coteries before MCG games.
The players changed in the Yarra, and ran up the road to Vic park before Collingwoods first game at the ground in 1892.
In fact funny i should bring that up now ...... it appears it is actually for sale ..
http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-hotel+leisure-vic-abbotsford-5793569
AFAIK the pub is only open a few days a week now, and never that late.