End compulsory voting

[Power Raid]

If people don't want to vote they shouldn't be made to.

If you have the position of not wanting or not being motivated to vote you clearly have little interest in politics or the nation as a whole. Less disinterested people making uninformed votes the better. Might weed out some people manipulated by newspaper and free to air TV news headlines.

if you don't want to vote you don't have to.

I have only voted once in my life. For practical reasons, I just asked to come off the electoral roll and the electoral commission complied with my request.

 

[samFFC]

I don't get how this is remotely comparable to lack of political knowledge or being informed about who you are voting for.

How many people do you see and hear of who opening brag about donkey voting, ticking random boxes and who state they have no idea who the PM is and have no idea which party the PM belongs to? It is scary how common this is, and often it is from otherwise reasonably intelligent people. We have a substantial amount of uninformed voters, many of them willingly so, who only vote to avoid being fined.

Schools do not do enough work educating kids on politics (and many other real world things.) and adults are too quickly influenced by headlines.

100% agree with you.
But that doesn't mean less people should vote, or that voting should be made harder.

We already do a good job of getting representation by voting on a Saturday, having widespread polling stations, strong postal/absentee system, voting in hospitals etc.. We need to do a similar job of understanding the details of policies and politicians.

 

[Chief]

If they ended compulsory voting we would be a one party State with Howard declared King for life

So cynical at such a young age.

 

[HairyO]

Agree that opt-in electoral roll is an issue. Big and unnecessary barrier to youth participation.

Go to a website. Apply.

If additional info is required they send you a SSA envelope.

If that is too much then I dont want them voting.

No wonder the Greens do so well early then lose voters as they age.

 

[ShanDog]

There's good arguments for both compulsory and voluntary voting. It's a tricky one that I go back and forth on a bit, but I think I've settled on compulsory voting being the best.

I agree that disengaged voters who donkey vote or show up and simply tick some boxes and leave are a problem associated with political disengagement. It seems silly to ask someone who either doesn't know or doesn't care about the result to vote.

However, the fact that it is compulsory and (at least notionally) attracts a fine for not complying means that:
1. The election has a higher level of legitimacy associated with the result (putting aside the myriad other electoral system factors that influence outcomes)
2. Those who are disinclined to vote but are prodded by the threat of fine will go out and vote, adding to point 1.
3. By ensuring the 'barely engaged' majority vote, it somewhat reduces the risk of the most vocal and aggressive campaigners (lol) having an undue influence on election results.
4. It forces the big political parties to target the swinging middle and therefore means they are less radical with policies, leading to greater ideological stability.
5. If as close to 100% of the eligible public votes, then each vote is as close to representative of one person's views as possible.

None of the above points are perfect and don't produce an infallible system at all. However, on the balance of things, I think it better than the alternative.

Feel free to pick it apart

 

[Taylor]

Compulsory voting might be horrible, but it's the best system we can have.

 

[quotemokc]

If you want to eliminate donkey votes then how about changing the paper so that you can't simply put 1,2,3 etc.

Make it a little bit more involved.

 

[Rob R]

Your point is a good one, which is why pre polling and postal voting has to be protected here.

That would be an important way of reducing the risk.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

There's good arguments for both compulsory and voluntary voting. It's a tricky one that I go back and forth on a bit, but I think I've settled on compulsory voting being the best.

I agree that disengaged voters who donkey vote or show up and simply tick some boxes and leave are a problem associated with political disengagement. It seems silly to ask someone who either doesn't know or doesn't care about the result to vote.

The donkey vote issue can be mitigated by using Robson Rotation or similar, ensuring candidates are spread in different positions across the ballot paper. It means a few different ballot papers in each electorate, and not having one candidate with the small advantage if being listed first on every paper.
Due to the number of candidates and parties, it would be more difficult in the Senate than the Reps - although Tasmania does it with multi-member electorates.

 

[The Passenger]

Surely one easy way to minimise donkey voting bias is to have multiple different voting sheets per electorate, each in different orders and write a macro which prints an equal amount of sheets accordingly.

That's not anything of significant difficulty.

EDIT: beaten by Howard Littlejohn

 

[ShanDog]

If you want to eliminate donkey votes then how about changing the paper so that you can't simply put 1,2,3 etc.

Make it a little bit more involved.

Reckon that would increase the number of ineligible (wrongly filled in) and donkey (deliberately ****ed up) votes.

 

[CatFan79]

If you want to eliminate donkey votes then how about changing the paper so that you can't simply put 1,2,3 etc.

Replace the paper form with an online form featuring radio buttons. Problem solved.

BTW most 18-25 year olds can't even manage their own lives let alone have an informed opinion about politics.

 

[AM]

It's interesting that it's the reactionaries who are generally the ones pressing for voluntary voting. Wonder why!

 

[Belnakor]

If you want to eliminate donkey votes then how about changing the paper so that you can't simply put 1,2,3 etc.

Make it a little bit more involved.

donkey voting is a non issue.

while people kind of love to go "herp derp people just donkey vote because they are slack jawed yokels" having scrutineered before the % of donkey votes is normally super low. Not enough to influence seats.

 

[Power Raid]

Isn’t voting green or one nation a donkey vote?

 

[Lebbo73]

Compulsory voting might be horrible, but it's the best system we can have.

 

[FRUMPY]

Voting shouldnt be compulsory - I donkey vote - couldnt care less who becomes prime minister:

Reasons:
1. Every politician is as bad as the other
2. They cant even work out who they want to lead their own political party - why should i vote for them?
3. My one vote will not make a difference at all (i dont control what anyone else does with their vote ('if everyone does a donkey vote it has an impact' argument - the day someone who i can effect wins by one vote, then come and talk to me)

 

[FRUMPY]

And the waste of paper that goes along with those handing out pamphlets when you go and vote, ridiculous

 

[telsor]

Voting shouldnt be compulsory - I donkey vote - couldnt care less who becomes prime minister:

Reasons:
1. Every politician is as bad as the other
2. They cant even work out who they want to lead their own political party - why should i vote for them?
3. My one vote will not make a difference at all (i dont control what anyone else does with their vote ('if everyone does a donkey vote it has an impact' argument - the day someone who i can effect wins by one vote, then come and talk to me)

1. No, some are worse than others. I think few (if any) are 'good', and that the party they're with doesn't change that, but they're not all equally bad.

2. You don't vote for the leader. You vote for your local member. (that's the theory anyway).

3. In my more cynical elections, I vote to make the seat more marginal (basically, against whoever I think will win). More marginal = more pork barrelling, so that's as close as you can come to a win. (see point 1 for the basis of my reasoning on pork distribution).


OT

At times I think it'd be a good idea to have IQ tests, or tests to show understanding of issues, or even how the political system works in order to vote, but at the end of the day, democracy is meant to include everyone, event the stupid and ill-informed, so everyone should have the right to vote.

Forcing people to vote I'm less sure about, but I think it helps avoid extremist views, and manipulations of the system, so is probably the lesser evil.

 

[samFFC]

Go to a website. Apply.

If additional info is required they send you a SSA envelope.

If that is too much then I dont want them voting.

No wonder the Greens do so well early then lose voters as they age.

I don't understand how that relates to the Greens?

Voting shouldnt be compulsory - I donkey vote - couldnt care less who becomes prime minister:

Reasons:
1. Every politician is as bad as the other
2. They cant even work out who they want to lead their own political party - why should i vote for them?
3. My one vote will not make a difference at all (i dont control what anyone else does with their vote ('if everyone does a donkey vote it has an impact' argument - the day someone who i can effect wins by one vote, then come and talk to me)

You are perfectly legally fine to donkey vote. You have the right to do that. But you should have to do that, if that's your view.

 

[FRUMPY]

1. No, some are worse than others. I think few (if any) are 'good', and that the party they're with doesn't change that, but they're not all equally bad.

2. You don't vote for the leader. You vote for your local member. (that's the theory anyway).

3. In my more cynical elections, I vote to make the seat more marginal (basically, against whoever I think will win). More marginal = more pork barrelling, so that's as close as you can come to a win. (see point 1 for the basis of my reasoning on pork distribution).


OT

At times I think it'd be a good idea to have IQ tests, or tests to show understanding of issues, or even how the political system works in order to vote, but at the end of the day, democracy is meant to include everyone, event the stupid and ill-informed, so everyone should have the right to vote.

Forcing people to vote I'm less sure about, but I think it helps avoid extremist views, and manipulations of the system, so is probably the lesser evil.

Am i stupid? or are you stupid to think your vote matters?

 

[Gough]

Am i stupid? or are you stupid to think your vote matters?

I think our vote matters because we're free to cast it how we wish without fear of interference, which is something that millions have died for.

 

[Chief]

Surely one easy way to minimise donkey voting bias is to have multiple different voting sheets per electorate, each in different orders and write a macro which prints an equal amount of sheets accordingly.

That's not anything of significant difficulty.

EDIT: beaten by Howard Littlejohn

There are more Adelaide supporters registered on BigFooty than actually exist on the planet. I need to figure out how to randomize that list on the registration form.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

And the waste of paper that goes along with those handing out pamphlets when you go and vote, ridiculous

Oh, getting rid of HTV cards is a must. ACT and Tasmanian elections work well enough without them; simply by prohibiting electoral material within a certain distance of polling stations; despite the so-called complexity of Hare-Clark. All HTV cards do is hand the parties power over your preferences, as so many people just follow their chosen card.

 

[Chief]

Oh, getting rid of HTV cards is a must. ACT and Tasmanian elections work well enough without them; simply by prohibiting electoral material within a certain distance of polling stations; despite the so-called complexity of Hare-Clark. All HTV cards do is hand the parties power over your preferences, as so many people just follow their chosen card.

You should see the LNP volunteers swarming as close to the entrance as they are legally allowed, and closer. Old grey-bearded blokes in short sleeved shirts grasping at your clothes like you're carrying the cure for impotence.