im against the alternate strip for the sole purpose of "screw everyone else". im arrogant and i dont care. however if they were to change, why dont they goa complete mirror of what we currently wear. didnt they do that in the 80's. vague memory.
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Essendon's alternate strip
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- Aug 10, 2006
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(musta been when Adam was born......!)
VFL was NEVER propped up by foreigners!......
Some MAY have relocated under another banner, but many have come under false illusions. Others will never relocate.
(still trying to run the show....just like at home??)
tribey
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There's an obvious one - I was hoping the penny would drop for you but I'll explain it.
These massive clubs overseas, saturated in tradition protected by intellectual property law, are mature enough to compete in their traditional home shirts/singlets/guernseys but recognise the need for a clearly discernable away strip when one is required.
As such we have Man United and Liverpool, two of the most widely supported and recognised sporting institutions in the world, both wearing red shirts when they play at home - but another colour when they play away to one another
This is the issue.
Why can't Essendon do the same, instead of being reduced to slights on one's eyesight when people argue that Essendon's guernsey is too similar to Melbourne's and Richmond's in design and/or colour?
We will have to agree to disagree here, but for visual diarrhea the 2000 Grand Final took the cake. Nothing but dark, red and white all over the field. Looked shocking and when the cameras moved it was hard to quickly and clearly tell the difference between players.
I've also seen Collingwood and North Melbourne mudbowl games circa 80s when the only way you could tell certain players with soiled guernseys apart was by the player's identity alone.
You say you don't care either way, but you've written two consecutive essays on the issue. You wouldn't be writing at length solely to refute the misconstrued 'Man U' argument.
Only at great pains and after revisiting the EFC constitution, which said the guernsey could not be changed, correct?
There is logic and there is worldwide precedent - and I feel we are back to square one with your original call.
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(musta been when Adam was born......!)
VFL was NEVER propped up by foreigners!......
Some MAY have relocated under another banner, but many have come under false illusions. Others will never relocate.
(still trying to run the show....just like at home??)
You do know that in the 80s most VFL clubs were deeply in debt or up against the wall financially because of gross overspending and fiscal mismanagement (much like Carlton are now), but unlike today there were no multi-million dollar TV deals and record attendances to save them, right?
The answer was to expand nationally - the added interest (value of TV rights went through the roof) and financial boom provided by the interstate clubs (the West Coast provided a $4 million licence fee and tens of thousands of club members up front) very much helped make the league what it is today.
Learn your history.
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- Aug 10, 2006
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So was Cricket.......but Adelaide nor West Coast put their hand in the pocket nor did we for them.
Sa Aussie footy was in no better condition either..was it....??
..andd to go further...........West Coast/Frementle have murdered WAFL crowds over here.
And they give sweet FA to them also.
Yet it's a completely different environment. They play in a worldwide competition, it's necessity. Many people don't see the AFL situation in that light.
You used the American sport example earlier. Again, completely different environment. They don't have clash strips, they have home and away, colour and white. It's just what they do, it's a different arguement.
Essendon Football Club have worn a predominately black jumper with a red sash in every single game they have played. This is what people don't want to change.
Man U and Liverpool wear completely red shirts, no two clubs in the AFL wear identical strips.
Yet, when Melbourne wore royal blue and red there wasn't a clash. The "clash" was caused when Melbourne changed their jumpers to look more like Essendon's.
A lot of Essendon people stand by the arguement that the team that caused the clash, should solve it. In the Melbourne example, I agree.
When was the last game you saw played in a mudbowl?
Again, you're putting words in my mouth. European football is a completely different environment. There are thousands of clubs that can potentially play against each other in any given season, it's not possible for these clubs to all have unique strips, these clubs have to have alternatives. It's a necessity.
Thousands of clubs doesn't compare to 16.
If we wear an alternative strip this week, I certainly won't shed a tear after it. It would be a shame to see that record come to an end (world record I believe), but winning is more important to me. As long as I get to see my team play I don't care.
But I simply do not believe what happens in Europe is relevant to what we should do here.
A constitution that was written over 100 years ago. A constitution that was written prior to there being any concept of a clash.
A constitution that wasn't written by those in charge now that you claim have an agenda.
The constitution that said a jumper change couldn't be made unless without a vote from the members. Essendon put this to a vote some time ago and it fell through, Essendon did this at great cost. From what I'm led to believe, it was something like $75k and hence the reluctance to do so again.
The standpoint from EFC was always, we won't waste money on something that isn't going to get voted in by the members, if the AFL makes us do it, we'll do it.
EFC has a democratically elected board. The board are bound to the club constitution, the constitution cannot be changed without a member vote.
But you fail to see the fact that for so many Essendon supporters, it's beyond logic. It's emotion.
Footy is an emotional game.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyertribe
I've also seen Collingwood and North Melbourne mudbowl games circa 80s when the only way you could tell certain players with soiled guernseys apart was by the player's identity alone.
Put ya glasses on......or clean them..........back in the 60's that was the case(B/W TV........u still got one????.........glory be!!!!)
But today....with colour........it's an impossisibilty.
Won't happen.....trust me..
Originally Posted by dyertribe
I've also seen Collingwood and North Melbourne mudbowl games circa 80s when the only way you could tell certain players with soiled guernseys apart was by the player's identity alone.
Put ya glasses on......or clean them..........back in the 60's that was the case(B/W TV........u still got one????.........glory be!!!!)
But today....with colour........it's an impossisibilty.
Won't happen.....trust me..
tribey
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And that's the crux of the issue - a professional sporting organisation with 16 clubs should not be pandering to the emotion or whim of one or two.
But we do, unfortunately.
St.Kilda's traditional home ground is not Moorabbin, nor (as identified above) is Essendon's Windy Hill. North are renovating Arden St. to prove a point to morons who speculate on their relocation to the Gold Coast, and more power to them. Richmond is a kick away from the MCG, why would they want to move? The Bulldogs have had other aspects of their tradition taken from them- the revolting "Origin" clash jumper, anyone? - and, like us, fight to keep what they have.
We fight to keep what we can take into a game that identifies Collingwood. THat's all you need to know. Keep dreaming about alternate jumpers for us and the Bombers; it'll never happen.
Dyertribe/Aussiegod: I've seen Collingwood/North games on black and white TV and followed the action fine.
And what is that colour this week? I don't claim to be a soccer fan but 1 thing that annoys me is the only way to tell which team is which is by the sponsors logo & even they change pretty often. Yes Man U wear red at home but play in white, blue, yellow & just about every other colour at one time or another. As you say thay are not the only one who wears red so where exactly is their identity? Another thing you seem to be overlooking is the fact that there are potentially hundreds of clubs Man U may have to play against. As well as the fact the EPL has the relegation system the internationals mean they could play any team from any countries leagues. Compare that to a competition that only has 16 teams.
Or are they too much like Essendon's jumper. Are you overlooking the fact that Essendon'e jumper design is recognised as the oldest in the world. Do you think Man U or any other sporting giant would happily give up that mantle if they had it?
Personally I think anybody who can't tell the difference between Essendon & Richmond has severe eyesight problems. The only legitimate clash that I believe exists is with Melbourne. The only reason the AFL lobbed Richmond & Stkilda in the mix was for their own justification. They needed more than 1 clash to make it stick.
Why does the clash with Melbourne exist - because Melbourne altrered their jumper. If Essendon decided after being forced to change their jumper that we might as well make a big change & went for red, black & yellow stripes (same design as the Crows only black not blue) would you franchise fans think that was OK? Do you believe Port should have been allowed to wear black & white stipes on entering the comp? The jumper is the only this that distinguishes the teams so why is it so hard for you to understand that we want to keep that identity? Is it just because you have no history & tradition of your own?
Well I was at the ground & had no problem - our guys were the ones with the ball
Smyth94
Norm Smith Medallist
Oh my another clash jumper thread...
It seems that most of the people that argue that Essendon should "put up and shut up" are arguing on the basis of the perceived "arrogance" the club is displaying for its contempt with this 'clash' system joke
How hypocritcal that most people on this forum see red when the AFL remove the traditions of this great game - Waverly, no passouts at TD, no kicking the footy after the game on the surface etc etc and yet when Essendon wants to stop the AFL of robbing it of one of the most symbolic of its traditions people are quick with the "get over it" remarks
On Saturday arvo I hope the Bombers really stick it up Demeitriou's arse and not wear the clash strip
It seems that most of the people that argue that Essendon should "put up and shut up" are arguing on the basis of the perceived "arrogance" the club is displaying for its contempt with this 'clash' system joke
How hypocritcal that most people on this forum see red when the AFL remove the traditions of this great game - Waverly, no passouts at TD, no kicking the footy after the game on the surface etc etc and yet when Essendon wants to stop the AFL of robbing it of one of the most symbolic of its traditions people are quick with the "get over it" remarks
On Saturday arvo I hope the Bombers really stick it up Demeitriou's arse and not wear the clash strip
Father Jack
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Personally, I much rather watching the football when there is a clear difference between the two teams strips. Yes, I will get slammed, but even dark on dark such as Carlton and Essendon annoys me, but I can live with that. Essendon and the Saints in their current livery is a pain in the arse to follow, especially if you are not completely familiar with their players.
I understand the attachment that the pies and bombers have to their jumpers, but if only for a couple of games a year is it a problem? Or is it the record of unchanged jumpers being under threat that is the problem? If so, then Yze board
I understand the attachment that the pies and bombers have to their jumpers, but if only for a couple of games a year is it a problem? Or is it the record of unchanged jumpers being under threat that is the problem? If so, then Yze board
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This is a farcical situation best remedied by the AFL stepping in and demanding the away team wear a standardised clash strip (flouro-green jumpers, shorts and socks) otherwise they be stripped of 4 premiership points.
I went to the St Kilda V Melbourne match in round 1.
People can say whatever they like, but the game was better to watch.
Some Saints fans thought the white jumpers looked stupid.
Some people would argue that for 100 years, there was no difficulty in telling the teams apart.
Both points are true to a point, but who cares?
Navy blue and red versus the all-white made things a hell of a lot easier for players and spectators.
F**k tradition! Tradition is overrated. Tradition is something for old farts wearing tweed coats and smoking pipes. We've got sponsor's logos everywhere, for crying out loud and people whine about tradition.
I went to the St Kilda V Melbourne match in round 1.
People can say whatever they like, but the game was better to watch.
Some Saints fans thought the white jumpers looked stupid.
Some people would argue that for 100 years, there was no difficulty in telling the teams apart.
Both points are true to a point, but who cares?
Navy blue and red versus the all-white made things a hell of a lot easier for players and spectators.
F**k tradition! Tradition is overrated. Tradition is something for old farts wearing tweed coats and smoking pipes. We've got sponsor's logos everywhere, for crying out loud and people whine about tradition.
Mero
Brownlow Medallist
I would suggest the problem has a few parts to it.Personally, I much rather watching the football when there is a clear difference between the two teams strips. Yes, I will get slammed, but even dark on dark such as Carlton and Essendon annoys me, but I can live with that. Essendon and the Saints in their current livery is a pain in the arse to follow, especially if you are not completely familiar with their players.
I understand the attachment that the pies and bombers have to their jumpers, but if only for a couple of games a year is it a problem? Or is it the record of unchanged jumpers being under threat that is the problem? If so, then Yze board
1. Yes, the traditional ties to the jumpers, which include aspects like linking a marketing brand to a particular design, based on the unchanging aspect of it.
2. The fact that the problem exists because other clubs changed their jumpers to more closely resemble these designs. Eg Collingwood actually changed their jumpers so as NOT to look like Geelong and North, which were predominantly white, however, StKilda then changed their jumpers from Red back to the mostly Black.
3. The AFL rules as recently as 1990 were to make the club who created the clash resolve the Clash. Otherwise, why would Brisbane and West Coast have had Clash jumpers in the first place if not to avoid the clash with Hawthorn.
4. That the clubs making this decision for Essendon and Collingwood obviously don't have the same concerns or understanding because of a lessened attachment to the marketing brand/traditional design, given that they have had various designs over the years. Why is it clubs with less attachement to their jumper design get to tell Collingwood and Essendon what to think?
5. The ridiculous argument of the overseas competitions, where Away strips have been an accepted part of their sporting culture since the begining of the competition.
6. The very small returns from selling Clash jumpers, which is something like $4per jumper sold to each club.
Ah the jumper debate - the last bastion of Victorian arrogance. Our club, our tradition blah blah blah.
These issues take their eyes off the ball. Rant Rant Rant. It is the 21st century ladies. A century that has not been kind to you once proud Victorians and your once proud and powerful 'big' clubs. Take your eyes off the ball, that's right, focus on the side issues, bleat to the media, we won't change.... let the rest of the progressive clubs get on with what is really important. Their was a time, when you played in a suburban league that you could get away with your arrogance and hypocrisy, not so in the big league lads.
These issues take their eyes off the ball. Rant Rant Rant. It is the 21st century ladies. A century that has not been kind to you once proud Victorians and your once proud and powerful 'big' clubs. Take your eyes off the ball, that's right, focus on the side issues, bleat to the media, we won't change.... let the rest of the progressive clubs get on with what is really important. Their was a time, when you played in a suburban league that you could get away with your arrogance and hypocrisy, not so in the big league lads.
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Mero
Brownlow Medallist
Isn't it only because of tradition that the Home team have any more rights than the Away team?
Why do they get to choose?
Even if I agree with the Dark v Light argument, StKilda and Melbourne have both changed their Home jumpers in the last 20 years, and they both have had Clash jumpers as well.
Why not make the side who created the Clash resolve it, like Brisbane and West Coast had to do, at Home to avoid clashing with Hawthorn?
Seems a very simple, fair system, where those who want to create new marketing initiatives are free to do so, and those who want to sit in the dar old past and sell their tradition can do so too.
I could probably direct you to a website that lists every jumper and the years they were worn
Mero
Brownlow Medallist
Here's The Clash. Perhaps they could print this on the jumpers.
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Explain to me why it's necessity and in the AFL it isnt?
When you wake up to the fact that the AFL is big business and not some parochial league down under you'll understand. TV viewers find it very hard to discern players when their jumpers clash, it makes for better viewing.
The AFL is the league that the clubs participate in and are governed by. There is no "well we are 100 years old horseshit and we wont change" carp. If your team doesnt like it go find another league to play in.
The AFL currently puts up with too much nonsense from clubs. They run the league not the clubs. They are starting to wise up and taking action in buying the Roos and getting them out of Melbourne.
Mero
Brownlow Medallist
And this is what the clubs have a problem with.
Clubs who have been in the comp for 20 minutes and have no real history, get to tell clubs who have been around over 100 years that tradition means nothing and that they should just accept it and move on.
You talk about it being a big business, yet you obviously don't understand much about business.
One thing is creating a brand.
Freo have a particular brand, and amongst their marketing initiative is multiple jumpers. Good on them.
But Collingwood and Essendon have a brand that, amongst other things emphasises tradition and an link to past glories via the same jumpers.
But what's good for Freo, West Coast & Brisbane is not what's good for Collingwood and Essendon. And realistically, Carlton for that matter, but they're broke and can't afford to get the AFL offside.
Obviously all of Essendon's and Collingwood's supporters will stop going to games, stop supporting them, give the game away if they change their jumpers once or twice a year