Mega Thread Essendon's punishment - Opinion, theories etc

[Howard Littlejohn]

Hang on - Adelaide negotiated a penalty as well. I take it from that Essendon will be proven cheats if you negotiate a penalty.

The negotiation is a farce.

I'm happy if the AFL say

"On evidence we think you are guilty, we are prepared to penalise you X if you plead guilty for the following charge"

"If however you remain steadfast as to not plead guilty, you then proceed with a hearing and should you be found guilty the penalty is now Y"

This is what should happen. There should be no negotiation.

I'm happy with a reduced penalty for a plea of guilty, that is a fairly standard legal norm.

It is far too late for a plea bargain, and this is far too big to be negotiated. Some of the allegations, if we include charges not yet made, are the worst in the league's history and probably in Australian sport's history. They require a full and proper hearing.

The "disrepute" charges should be heard and answered, and if guilty punishments meted out.
Should other information require charges relating to actual drug use, further charges should be laid at that time.
I wonder if one of the sticking points could be Essendon and the individuals concerned wanting assurances that no further charges will be laid. The AFL surely could not agree to that at tbis stage.

Trying to sort everything out before finals is mistake in my view. We just need to live with the idea that this year's finals might prove to be tarnished, in order to ensure future years are less likely to be.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Brad Scott will be unhappy to hear that.

Is he every happy?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

On that matter. Have we looked in to Geelong practises during their premierships years with Dank? Just sayin'.

ASADA and ACC investigations are reprted to have included other clubs, and other sports. Those reports may be incorrect of course, although we know the ACC looked at other sports.
Perhaps other things at other clubs simply haven't come to light yet. Or perhaps Geelong didn't fail in "governance", and therefore no prohibited drug regime was allowed to take place.

 

[lones37]

Who's trying to hide behind anything??

I merely posted an article demonstrating how differently the NRL are handling things.

Make of it what you will but don't go blaming me for what the NRL do

End result will be the same, just the AFL will do it in two parts because they know Essendon used PEDs.

 

[Books]

This farce is becoming worse by the hour.

The Crows were punished for hiding some paperwork. Essendon, at the very least, are guilty of the same thing, seeing as they have lost / shredded / hidden / failed to keep records of exactly what the players were injected with.

Therefore... the punishment handed out to the Crows should be the starting point for the Bombers: A fine, loss of picks for two years and suspensions of club personnel.

After that, the risks to players, the governance issues and the embarrasment to the game should be added.
So the punishments should be a huge fine, loss of early picks for at least two years, suspension of club figures who were responsible for the fiasco, and possibly loss of points for this season.

IF, and I do say IF, players are found guilty of taking banned substances, then further penalties would naturally follow. But even on what we already KNOW, the penalties should be more than the Crows were given.

So what are we all waiting for?

 

[Godallblighty]

Essendon to finish its defence.

 

[zachary]

This explains Hird's recalcitrence:

"Hird was accompanied by his wife, Tania, a lawyer who has been a key adviser to her husband throughout the season-long affair.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hird-poised-to-issue-supreme-court-ultimatum-20130827-2snae.html#ixzz2d92I6yYe

He had two choices - incur the wrath of the entire football community, or cross the missus. No contest - he was between a rock and a soft place.

 

[Kamus]

This explains Hird's recalcitrence:

"Hird was accompanied by his wife, Tania, a lawyer who has been a key adviser to her husband throughout the season-long affair.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hird-poised-to-issue-supreme-court-ultimatum-20130827-2snae.html#ixzz2d92I6yYe

He had two choices - incur the wrath of the entire football community, or cross the missus. No contest - he was between a rock and a soft place.

I wonder if it was her suggestion that he get a tan and a hard-on as well?

 

[Mutt]

This explains Hird's recalcitrence:

"Hird was accompanied by his wife, Tania, a lawyer who has been a key adviser to her husband throughout the season-long affair.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hird-poised-to-issue-supreme-court-ultimatum-20130827-2snae.html#ixzz2d92I6yYe

He had two choices - incur the wrath of the entire football community, or cross the missus. No contest - he was between a rock and a soft place.

Hird needs to consider firing his lawyer/advisor/wife: his 'brand' has been smashed to smithereens due to his completely inept handling of this sad affair.

 

[Warwick Todd]

What would tarnish Hird's brand most is being found guilty of being a drug cheat. That's why he's handling things the way he is and putting up the fight he is.

His alternative was the guaranteed to be brand ruining pleading guilty to being a drug cheat.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

It is far too late for a plea bargain, and this is far too big to be negotiated. Some of the allegations, if we include charges not yet made, are the worst in the league's history and probably in Australian sport's history. They require a full and proper hearing.

I agree completely with the sentiment, but I fear this is not how it will pan out.

 

[Mutt]

What would tarnish Hird's brand most is being found guilty of being a drug cheat. That's why he's handling it the way he is and putting up the fight.

His alternative was the guaranteed to be brand ruining plead guilty to being a drug cheat.

Hird is just guaranteeing that he will be found to be a drug cheat.

The AFL has done all it should and more to help minimise the damage to brand Hird and, in response, Hird outs Vlad for the tip off and then throws under the bus the pragmatic club Chairman who could have negotiated a great deal with his mate Vlad.

MBA students will study this saga for years to come as a case study in how hubris and poor judgement can reduce the best personal brand in the AFL to one of the worst.

#Unbefrigginlievable

 

[DanWA]

What would tarnish Hird's brand most is being found guilty of being a drug cheat. That's why he's handling things the way he is and putting up the fight he is.

His alternative was the guaranteed to be brand ruining pleading guilty to being a drug cheat.

He will still always be known as that though... Same brush Ben Cousins got tar'd with.

 

[raffrox]

If the AFL's position was as strong as the deluded here think they would have just bought down penalties and not negotiated.

Don't kid yourselves. It's not that straight forward or it would have been done & dusted long ago.

Essendon are one of the proudest, strongest and most successful clubs in the AFL, and once this is sorted we will continue to be long into the future.

Don't kid yourself that this is the case.

The AFL is trying to make this thing go away asap. If Essendon at least semi-agrees this thing is over. No court cases, no appeals, no off season of uncertainty.

Also, 17 presidents don't want you in the finals. Your peers think you are taking the mickey now. It is not in the AFL's advantage for it to go to court, it's not in Essendons long term best interest for it to go to court. How many years this holds Essendon down is completely up to Essendon.

It is in Hird's best interest. He is trying in vain to save the last scrap of his reputation that he has. Hird is holding this up.

Funny how Burnside wants to drag this out. What does he get paid per hour?

 

[gazzathegreat]

It is far too late for a plea bargain, and this is far too big to be negotiated. Some of the allegations, if we include charges not yet made, are the worst in the league's history and probably in Australian sport's history. They require a full and proper hearing.

The "disrepute" charges should be heard and answered, and if guilty punishments meted out.
Should other information require charges relating to actual drug use, further charges should be laid at that time.
I wonder if one of the sticking points could be Essendon and the individuals concerned wanting assurances that no further charges will be laid. The AFL surely could not agree to that at tbis stage.

Trying to sort everything out before finals is mistake in my view. We just need to live with the idea that this year's finals might prove to be tarnished, in order to ensure future years are less likely to be.

Exactly. Its given Essendon leverage for a deal, where no negotiation should ever take place. The AFL should just find Essendon guilty of bringing the game into disrepute, strip Essendon of all their points in 2013, kick them out of the finals.

Then all the other crap can be sorted without having a deadline. God knows how long it might be before Essendon are found either guilty or not-guilty of those 30 odd charges. Could go on for months, yet here we are trying to give them a punishment for everything without knowing the verdict or anything. Its crazy.

 

[Kamus]

Funny how Burnside wants to drag this out. What does he get paid per hour?

No virus will ever kill its primary host.

 

[Albert Ross]

Exactly. Its given Essendon leverage for a deal, where no negotiation should ever take place. The AFL should just find Essendon guilty of bringing the game into disrepute, strip Essendon of all their points in 2013, kick them out of the finals.

By allowing them to negotiate and have 2 days of presenting their case, the AFL has headed off the "denial of natural justice" defence. Painful and pointless but the AFL just ticking off another checkbox.

 

[blueboy25]

Essendon are one of the proudest, strongest and most successful clubs in the AFL, and once this is sorted we will continue to be long into the future.

So strong that you got kicked out of your spiritual home by a bowls club.

 

[MyManLynch]

Anybody getting nervous ??

 

[MyManLynch]

Getting ready for the press conference.

 

[Warwick Todd]

Drawing comparisons between Hird & Cousins shows the level of understanding some have here - zero

 

[treefingers]

So uh, is something finally happenign now?

 

[DanWA]

Drawing comparisons between Hird & Cousins shows the level of understanding some have here - zero

Well 1 is truly a cheat, the other is not... the one that isn't got rubbed out for a year

 

[Dr Tigris]

I'm not sure if this has been worked through yet in the thread.

To me the big issue for Essendon is that if the players are banned then they are wide open to being sued. 38 players = about $8-9 mil per year of wages. If it is the standard 2 year ban that = about $17 mil.

If players seek punitive costs etc then it will be in the order of secveral tens of millions of dollars.

Unlikely that all the players will come in, but not beyond belief.

Simply doing the maths on this shows that what the AFL is doing is fairly small bickies compared to what could come if ASADA takes the written and signed evidence on taking AOD and TB4 as proving guilt. Can the EFC take a $50 mil hit? Can the AFL?

This seems crazy, but it is easy maths and follows from how much the players get paid. Food for thought.

 

[MyManLynch]

So uh, is something finally happenign now?

Nah.....still all locked away.......although the press conference area is all set up ready to go.