Expectations for 2008

[natlovestheswans]

Okay guys, just wondering how everyone is feeling about next season. Realistically do you think we can go all the way?

Discuss.

 

[SOPH_CROSS]

for me its to early to say
round one two and three will be make or break for us i think

hoping we can go all the way

 

[rancidpants13]

for me its to early to say
round one two and three will be make or break for us i think

hoping we can go all the way

the only thing i expect is to see the young blokes get a real good crack at senior positions....by that, i mean not seeing blokes in the first 22 on name and reputation alone, and seeing those young blokes get more than just being named as emergency week in, week out
in conjunction with that expectation is an expectation of some EXCITEMENT in the swans ranks, either in style of play as a team OR from individuals, namely the young blokes i was referring to above....
one of the most disappointing features of recent years (and there haven't been many, i admit, as we've had a good run) is the complete lack of rising star nominations....heath grundy should've got one for his debut in 06, and cheese barlow possibly deserved one in 07, but apart from them we have not been close for ages
i could stomach a non-finals season (as long as it wasn't bottom 4) if, say, dan currie, dan o'keefe, jesse white, brendan murphy and craig bird all pulled rising star noms (yeah yeah, dream on, i know)
but geez, let's get some EXCITEMENT in the red and white

 

[ssfc0203]

I just want our young guys to finally get a chance at trying to create an impact on the game, and seeing what we have seen in Jack, Barlow, Schmidt, Brennan & Co. I would think we'd have given everyone else a more of a go. But I guess thats one of the setbacks of having a team make their grand final 2 years consecutively, everyone expects to play the same 22 over and over again, thinking it as a good strategy to make it to the finals again.
As much as I love the members of our team, I do believe it is now time to introduce newer and younger players into our team.
Or else, (hope it never happens, knock on wood), we'll end up being another Essendon past the glory years of 2000, leaning heavily on the likes of Hird, Lloyd and Lucas.

Like Rancid said, I'd happily accept a non-finals season (one or two *cough*) if our younger guys got a fair go.
Lets hope our 'refinished' game plan involves players playing on a lot more and switching from attacking to defensive (as in the Round 22 v. Hawthorn game) as need be.

We have absolute stars just waiting to be discovered in our team, whats the harm in allowing them to play some games?

 

[robbieando]

the only thing i expect is to see the young blokes get a real good crack at senior positions....by that, i mean not seeing blokes in the first 22 on name and reputation alone, and seeing those young blokes get more than just being named as emergency week in, week out
in conjunction with that expectation is an expectation of some EXCITEMENT in the swans ranks, either in style of play as a team OR from individuals, namely the young blokes i was referring to above....
one of the most disappointing features of recent years (and there haven't been many, i admit, as we've had a good run) is the complete lack of rising star nominations....heath grundy should've got one for his debut in 06, and cheese barlow possibly deserved one in 07, but apart from them we have not been close for ages
i could stomach a non-finals season (as long as it wasn't bottom 4) if, say, dan currie, dan o'keefe, jesse white, brendan murphy and craig bird all pulled rising star noms (yeah yeah, dream on, i know)
but geez, let's get some EXCITEMENT in the red and white

I agree with all that, though even in the past few seasons we have been at least lucky to see that we have Malceski, Schmidt, Barlow, Moore and Grundy ready to push on for regular senior spots (in Malceski case a leadership role). We have some kids that look promising and still have the draft to come on Saturday where we will add two more to the list of Bird, Murphy, Jack, White, D. O'Keefe, Brabazon, Currie, Laidlaw and Thornton.

So even if we have a down year we have plenty to look forward to youth wise and hopefully we can get the KP Tall we have been crying out for with pick 11 and at 26 either another KP Tall or Fast, Strong Running Midfielder (Best Available or the two). That would add to the list. As for Rising Stars norms well it would be nice, but even if don't get any hopefully the chance to blood some young players and allowing them to become regular senior players or putting them in the position to do so would be just as welcome. Don't forget we have done that in the past 2 years but not huge numbers that make it clear to everybody.

Hopefully we can get to the stage of a senior 22 that is picked on talent and form over what a player "has done for the team in the past".

 

[RUNVS]

Looking at the various 2008 prediction threads on bigfooty most people believe Sydney wont make the 8 next year. I however think they are going to be in for a very unpleasent surprise as i think the Swans can make the top 4 next year. Make no mistake, the Swans have a good chance of winning the flag next year.

 

[is2SWaNz]

2008 could be the year for us to improve and inject some blood into the team. For the past few years, 2009 is always ringing in my mind to be the Year of the Swans *touch wood*.

2008 will be a different year and with a 'tweaked' game plan we could see many different faces in the club next year. Not with our trading but we get to see Jack, Barlow, Schmidt, Moore and possibly White in the team. I'm really excited about next year, and I can hardly wait to GO, TO LET GO! (That quote never made sense to me)

Hopefully we can get to the stage of a senior 22 that is picked on talent and form over what a player "has done for the team in the past".

I agree with this. Get over the reputation and look for form!!!

 

[FM0226]

I had never been delusional about our list. Due to our lack of tanking and location disadvantages, we've had a lot of trouble finding young talent to our side and it was a mixture of good management and EXTREME good luck that we were able to get the list we have today.

Of most of our better players - Goodes, Magic, O'Keefe, Malceski, Buchanan are all late picks (third round and beyond), Kirk is Kirk. Kennelly is the first Irish experiment that actually worked.

Jolly and C.Bolton had trouble getting into their respective teams, Hall can have well been a bust if he didn't get his act together. And even with these players, in my view, we over-achieved when we won the flag in 2005 and we probably over-achieved again in 2006.

In my view, we are a side on paper that should finish around the 4-7 mark. If we have things our way we would challenge for the 2-3 spot. Once we are in the finals, especially if we have a second chance, then we might make the grand final depending on match-ups.

If we meet the likes of Port Adelaide, Fremantle or the Hawks in the finals, then we can make the grand final again. Geelong and West Coast are 50-50. While we'll struggle again (probably) against the likes of Adelaide, Collingwood or the Kangaroos.

Have said that, I'll like see our younger players getting a bigger role in our senior squad next year. As good as our defence had been, the limitations in our attack is obvious and exploited, especially when the opposition flood against us. We need to inject young blood, especially in the midfield and forward line to give us a new dimension in attack and move away from the extremely Hall-centric football that we have played.

And these young players should be given the ball and the freedom to attack rather than giving them defensive assignments - the attitude/game plan we give to someone like Jack can determine how far we go. If we deploy/develop him as a potential line-breaking midfielder (and taking the place of someone like matthews), we'll be adding new attacking dimensions when we attack. If we play him in place of someone like Bevan or Schmidt on the bench, then we could well be going backwards.

It'll also be interesting to see how we play Barlow and Schmidt. I'll like to see Schmidt more in the midfield and see how his decision-making and foot skills is like under constant pressure (I have really high hopes for him). While I'll like to see Barlow play a bit of FF and see how he goes there. While he's liken to Goodes, I actually see more of a Magic-type of player in him, someone that's creative, takes risk and has a good set-shot.

 

[mitch820]

i could stomach a non-finals season (as long as it wasn't bottom 4) if, say, dan currie, dan o'keefe, jesse white, brendan murphy and craig bird all pulled rising star noms (yeah yeah, dream on, i know)

Don't forget Ed Barlow, he fits into the age limit by about two weeks.

 

[liz]

Kennelly is the first Irish experiment that actually worked.

Jim Stynes might have something to say about that!

 

[bloods01]

I expect us to make the 8. Where we finish in the 8 will depend on injuries I think. We had injuries to key player's last year and we were never really a chance to do any damage. As previous people have said, I wouldn't mind missing out on the 8 if it meant that we would blood some kids.

Ideally though a top 8 finish and two rising star nominations would be nice.

 

[rancidpants13]

I expect us to make the 8. Where we finish in the 8 will depend on injuries I think. We had injuries to key player's last year and we were never really a chance to do any damage. As previous people have said, I wouldn't mind missing out on the 8 if it meant that we would blood some kids.

Ideally though a top 8 finish and two rising star nominations would be nice.

yeah, i'd certainly settle for that.....
as for ladder predictions, of the swans and every other team....i suspect the 07 form will turn out to be a very poor guide to 08....
with some positive team selection (and form, obviously) we could make the 8 and do some damage
but if things go sour, we could easily end up bottom 4
but what i mean about predictions can be summed up by trying to work out how carlton will fare
with judd, a fit stevens, the No 1 pick (probly kruezer) and an improving young list, they could challenge for a spot in the 8....then again, judd might not get back to his pre-injury brilliance, and with various other factors not favouring them, the blues could again be down near the bottom

my point is i think this off-season is very confusing and difficult in terms of predictions

 

[FM0226]

Jim Stynes might have something to say about that!

That's very true! My bad. :lol:

 

[ssfc0203]

yeah, i'd certainly settle for that.....
as for ladder predictions, of the swans and every other team....i suspect the 07 form will turn out to be a very poor guide to 08....
with some positive team selection (and form, obviously) we could make the 8 and do some damage
but if things go sour, we could easily end up bottom 4
but what i mean about predictions can be summed up by trying to work out how carlton will fare
with judd, a fit stevens, the No 1 pick (probly kruezer) and an improving young list, they could challenge for a spot in the 8....then again, judd might not get back to his pre-injury brilliance, and with various other factors not favouring them, the blues could again be down near the bottom

my point is i think this off-season is very confusing and difficult in terms of predictions

EVERYONE says the addition of Kreuzer and Judd will propel Carlton to the top 4, but the thing is will his skinny frame be ready for round one?

In my opinion, as rucks are slower than other players to develop, it will be a good 2 years before he has impact on the game. Carlton would probbaly be better off keeping O'Hailpin in ruck and drafting Cotchin, gunning up their midfield and using the 'score more goals' rather than 'defensive' approach.

 

[its game on]

Okay guys, just wondering how everyone is feeling about next season. Realistically do you think we can go all the way?

Discuss.

Realistically - No.

7th or 8th for mine.

Barry, Crouch, Matthews, J Bolton, Micky O, and Spida are all past their best, may be in the first 22 but will spasmodically have isolated good/great games, but as what happens all good players at that stage of their fine careers, they will lack consistency.

Need to get a lot more out of Davis, Buchanan, Hall and Ablett.

Jolly, Goodes, Irish, Bolton, Mal, ROK, Kirk are the only ones with real consistency. (Hope I didn't miss anyone)

I hope LRT (who I do rate) can go to FB because Leo's just not a KP anymore.

Geelong, Hawks, Pies, Power are streets ahead of us ATM, we are just too predicable and slow.

Sorry Nat u did ask.

 

[snappy]

Im with the majority on this, obviously i would like to see new faces given a go, but more importantly i wana see our early/mid 20 age group take on a bigger role, and if they dont, then move them on.
2007 was a good year to discover some future leaders of our club, there was an oppertunity there to take the game on for themselves instead of waiting to see what the next bloke did, apart from Malceski that was it..

 

[rancidpants13]

Im with the majority on this, obviously i would like to see new faces given a go, but more importantly i wana see our early/mid 20 age group take on a bigger role, and if they dont, then move them on.
2007 was a good year to discover some future leaders of our club, there was an oppertunity there to take the game on for themselves instead of waiting to see what the next bloke did, apart from Malceski that was it..

yes, this is also very true
malch took the step, barlow is surely going to, it's up to various others now to prove themselves worthy of at least a shot at senior footy....heath grundy is one i particularly want to see make a go of his obvious ability....he's been with the club i think 3 years now....if he can't make the team, or at least be pressing for a spot week after week, his time with us is very limited

 

[snappy]

yes, this is also very true
malch took the step, barlow is surely going to, it's up to various others now to prove themselves worthy of at least a shot at senior footy....heath grundy is one i particularly want to see make a go of his obvious ability....he's been with the club i think 3 years now....if he can't make the team, or at least be pressing for a spot week after week, his time with us is very limited

For sure Grundy, we have to make ready for the vacume Hall and Micky O will make. He is the most ready one would think, all though we did pick up Playfair, Barlow could be good down FWD, a bit like Brennan from Brisbane .. Also i would like to see Moore & Schmidt running in the midfield, aswell as Laidlaw down back playing a better roll than Dempster did for us.
With Jack, White, DOK, Bird & others given a game here and there, when players are down on form..

 

[CAS79]

I'm expecting (or at least hoping) for more intensity in our matches. We showed against the Hawks late last season that we can play hard from the start. With a good pre season behind us and our key players being injury free and young guys like Barlow comig on I can see us making the top six but I’m not confidant about a flag.

 

[mj23]

I hope we do ok this year and the kids get a good run thats all I ask for. Would prefer to see guys like Bird moore and Schmit running around rather than the likes of Crouch and Mathews nothing against the two but we should be rebuilding. Jesse White up forward is the another one id like to see alot of.

 

[scottwade]

It strikes me that there is a dichotomy here.

It seems everyone agrees that we need to select our best 22 and that past glories should play little part in the selection process, BUT on the other hand there is a push for younger players to be selected, without necessarily demonstrating any reasons why, on form, they should be selected.

Consider some of the names raised Barlow, Bird, Grundy, Schmidt, White etc.

Of those Barlow deservedly held his place at the end of the season, but Grundy & Schmidt were unable to establish themselves and White is a second year player and Bird has only come onto our list.

If Crouch, Mathews etc have to earn their places then so must the younger guys.

To my mind of the players in our 22 at the end of the season the only players that are no longer up to it are Crouch (age & injuries) and Bevan (lack of skills).*

Of our reserves the 2 players that have previously most impressed me (and I admit I saw no reserves games in the second half of last season) are Laidlaw & Moore.

I think Grundy & Schmidt lack the pace (as well, importantly other attributes to overcome that lack of pace) to be regular senior players and White, O'Keefe et al have yet (for various reasons) to dominate at the lower level.

So whilst I think we would all like to see a rejuvenation of the team ALL positions (whatever the player's age) have to be earned.

Hopefully we will take the pre-season competition more seriously this year and a true contest for places in our best 22 will occur.

Oh and somewhere between 4 & 12 at the end of the H&A season.
So much will depend on whether the youngsters can take the next step and whether Roos will give them the opportunity WHEN they deserve it.


*PS yes bedford I know you'd add McVeigh to that list. I wouldn't.

 

[liz]

Scottwade, I think you've summed up things perfectly.

It would be fantastic to see some new faces in the team but only if they are there because they've forced the old-timers out of the team. And hopefully that will occur due to rapid development of those youngsters, rather than decline of some of the current senior team incumbents.

I do disagree with your assessment of Schmidt, however. I agree he lacks pace but I think he has attributes that can compensate for that, and he has the potential to become a good quality senior player. Part of his problem is that he needs to establish himself within the centre-bounce rotations, as that is where I think we will see his true value - hopefully Daniel Harris or even Sammy Mitchell style. In the senior games he has earned so far, he's tended to play more of an outside role where his lack of pace is more of an issue. Put him in traffic and I think his strong footy instincts, good hands and footskills, and sound decision making / vision in traffic will become more apparent.

 

[FM0226]

I think Grundy & Schmidt lack the pace (as well, importantly other attributes to overcome that lack of pace) to be regular senior players and White, O'Keefe et al have yet (for various reasons) to dominate at the lower level.

So whilst I think we would all like to see a rejuvenation of the team ALL positions (whatever the player's age) have to be earned.

Had to disagree with Schmidt's assessment wholeheartedly. Despite only being played in a spare-parts role mainly up forward and pinch-hitting at half back, Schmidt responded very well and was unfairly dropped despite out-performing other senior members in limited game time.

Like Liz has said, Schmidt's role should be a Sam Mitchell type of midfielder (which he played and was dominating at reserves level), with clean hands and decent/good disposal and decision-making skills. Pace is actually an over-rated attribute - Spriggs had plenty of that - Murphy (of the Carlton variety) isn't the quickest bloke around, nor is Pendlebury (who's smooth rather than quick).

In my view, Laidlaw had a pretty good game and was unfairly dropped where as Crouch was brought back to the team despite uninspiring performances. Matthews actually had one of his better years last year, but in my view, he's holding onto the spot that Bevan or Jack should be given to. With LRT back next year, and possibly Mayfair/Leo at FB, C.Bolton maight shift back to the third tall/medium role he played in 2006, giving us more options to rebound, so Bevan and Jack should play in the midfield (especially Jack, who I think will be wasted if we just turn him into another Crouch).

 

[rancidpants13]

It strikes me that there is a dichotomy here.

It seems everyone agrees that we need to select our best 22 and that past glories should play little part in the selection process, BUT on the other hand there is a push for younger players to be selected, without necessarily demonstrating any reasons why, on form, they should be selected.

Consider some of the names raised Barlow, Bird, Grundy, Schmidt, White etc.

Of those Barlow deservedly held his place at the end of the season, but Grundy & Schmidt were unable to establish themselves and White is a second year player and Bird has only come onto our list.

If Crouch, Mathews etc have to earn their places then so must the younger guys.

To my mind of the players in our 22 at the end of the season the only players that are no longer up to it are Crouch (age & injuries) and Bevan (lack of skills).*

Of our reserves the 2 players that have previously most impressed me (and I admit I saw no reserves games in the second half of last season) are Laidlaw & Moore.

I think Grundy & Schmidt lack the pace (as well, importantly other attributes to overcome that lack of pace) to be regular senior players and White, O'Keefe et al have yet (for various reasons) to dominate at the lower level.

So whilst I think we would all like to see a rejuvenation of the team ALL positions (whatever the player's age) have to be earned.

Hopefully we will take the pre-season competition more seriously this year and a true contest for places in our best 22 will occur.

Oh and somewhere between 4 & 12 at the end of the H&A season.
So much will depend on whether the youngsters can take the next step and whether Roos will give them the opportunity WHEN they deserve it.


*PS yes bedford I know you'd add McVeigh to that list. I wouldn't.

at no stage have i advocated players, whatever their age and experience, being picked on anything but form
however, i think any opinions on a best 22 right at this moment are based on form towards the end of our disappointing 2007 season, and that being the case we have to look at a few more than just crouch and bevan, both of whom i agree would not be in my starting 22 in round 1 08

first, ben mathews....while he finished top 10 in the B&F, as many keep saying, this is as much a reflection on the inconsistent or injury-plagued seasons of several players who would normally be rated ahead of mathews....eg, barry hall, tadhg kennelly
second, leo barry.....yes yes, a swans legend no doubt, but no one could argue that leo finished the season in any kind of form....his efforts against c'wood got worse as the elim final went on, and no one has yet addressed the combination of his loss of pace and his failing judgment
while he continues to blunder and confuse when with the ball, he is a liability and cannot be picked in the best 22 with any confidence

and while i agree other players need to prove themselves, surely in the case of crouch, bevan, mathews and barry, they were so poor in that last match of 07, it is fair enough to say they would start the new season outside, or at the very least on the brink of being outside that first 22

i am simply going over stuff i've been saying for months, but it's not just a matetr of change for the sake of change
i'm not alone in the opinion that we have become slower and more brittle with age and the effects of the physically intense football of the past 5 years....but more, we have become stale and reactive, almost scared to try anything on the field...whether this is a coaching issue or a failure of imagination among the players, i don't know, and i spose only time will tell, but i do know that through a lot of 06 and certainly most of 07, watching our mighty team was a frustrating, stomach-emptying feeling

i simply believe that going into the new season with largely the same core of players on the field is just treading water or, worse, sinking slowly

 

[its game on]

at no stage have i advocated players, whatever their age and experience, being picked on anything but form
however, i think any opinions on a best 22 right at this moment are based on form towards the end of our disappointing 2007 season, and that being the case we have to look at a few more than just crouch and bevan, both of whom i agree would not be in my starting 22 in round 1 08

first, ben mathews....while he finished top 10 in the B&F, as many keep saying, this is as much a reflection on the inconsistent or injury-plagued seasons of several players who would normally be rated ahead of mathews....eg, barry hall, tadhg kennelly
second, leo barry.....yes yes, a swans legend no doubt, but no one could argue that leo finished the season in any kind of form....his efforts against c'wood got worse as the elim final went on, and no one has yet addressed the combination of his loss of pace and his failing judgment
while he continues to blunder and confuse when with the ball, he is a liability and cannot be picked in the best 22 with any confidence

and while i agree other players need to prove themselves, surely in the case of crouch, bevan, mathews and barry, they were so poor in that last match of 07, it is fair enough to say they would start the new season outside, or at the very least on the brink of being outside that first 22

i am simply going over stuff i've been saying for months, but it's not just a matetr of change for the sake of change
i'm not alone in the opinion that we have become slower and more brittle with age and the effects of the physically intense football of the past 5 years....but more, we have become stale and reactive, almost scared to try anything on the field...whether this is a coaching issue or a failure of imagination among the players, i don't know, and i spose only time will tell, but i do know that through a lot of 06 and certainly most of 07, watching our mighty team was a frustrating, stomach-emptying feeling

i simply believe that going into the new season with largely the same core of players on the field is just treading water or, worse, sinking slowly

Totally agree.

All premiership players in 2005 but their time has sadly arrived.

There will be no progress if we persist with Leo at FB or CHB and play the others mentioned.

Barry, Crouch, Bevan and Matthews are not going to move this club forward.

Let's play the kids, we will be in a better position in 2009 than giving those 4 another season, we seriously are a long way behind Hawthorn, Pies and Geelong.