Explanations

[ImperialPurple]

I need some answers. I love my footy, no doubt about that. And, like a lot of footy lovers who also has a bit of a thing for the numbers game, I am reasonably interested in the stats when they are put up during the game, and of course, at the end of the season also. Like a lot of footy watchers, I listen and nod knowingly when they talk about hard ball gets and loose ball gets and contested possessions and the like, but if truth be told, like a lot of others, I'm not actually a full bottle of knowledge on what these terms actually mean. You know, I kind of get the general gist of what they mean, but couldn't tell you for sure... so as someone who likes to learn new "stuff", I'm throwing it open to you to correct my guesses as to what these terms mean:

1. Disposal / possession - interchangeable term. A "possession" is not actually counted until you've actually got rid of the ball. So if you are in possession of the ball when the siren goes, or you get dispossessed in a tackle, then even though you have had the ball (ie "possessed" it), it's not counted anywhere because you didn't actually dispose of it. So the term "disposal" is actually more accurate than "possession"??

2. Uncontested possession - you're on your own in the clear, and you receive and then dispose of the ball.

3. Contested possession - you actually dispose of the ball in a situation where you have had to contest opposition players to get hold of it??

4. Hard ball get - how is this different from a contested possession????

5. Loose ball get - the ball has come out of a pack, or has been kicked to space and you get it??

6. Does a tackle have to actually bring someone down to be counted as a tackle in the stats?

7. Clearances - you are credited with a clearance when you are the person who actually clears the ball and gets it moving forward (first link in the chain so to speak) from a bounce or a stoppage?

OK - to those who are far more in the know than I, I await your informative and educational replies.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Anyone??

Come on, even if you don't know all the answers, just help out with what you do know. Or is it all as clear as mud for everyone else as well???

 

[Lach72]

You've overestimated our enthusiam, not our knowledge.

 

[theGav56]

IP, it would be good to know what the stat lists that the coaching staff actually keep and what they are called (as opposed to what a commentator may call them). They may well be the same thing as you suggest; hard ball get = contested possesion.

But there could still be differences. For example a contested mark would still be a contested possesion I guess. The siren may go, and they don't actually dispose of it, so what is it then? Could you have four contested marks just before each siren and no possesions? I wouldn't think so.

 

[peppy la pew]

I am more of a footy tragic than a purist but, I agree with points 1-5

A tackle is one of the more contentious rules, it really irks me. Holding the ball / push in the back, the umps make it up as they go along.
I dont think you have to bring someone down, in as much as wrap them up and stop that passage of play.
Clearances - a meaningless stat imo

 

[Ripper]

IP, it would be good to know what the stat lists that the coaching staff actually keep and what they are called (as opposed to what a commentator may call them). They may well be the same thing as you suggest; hard ball get = contested possesion.

But there could still be differences. For example a contested mark would still be a contested possesion I guess. The siren may go, and they don't actually dispose of it, so what is it then? Could you have four contested marks just before each siren and no possesions? I wouldn't think so.

I reckon you can as a couple of times I have seen on stats sheets 1 m 0 kicks 0 Hb for a player.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

I need some answers. I love my footy, no doubt about that. And, like a lot of footy lovers who also has a bit of a thing for the numbers game, I am reasonably interested in the stats when they are put up during the game, and of course, at the end of the season also. Like a lot of footy watchers, I listen and nod knowingly when they talk about hard ball gets and loose ball gets and contested possessions and the like, but if truth be told, like a lot of others, I'm not actually a full bottle of knowledge on what these terms actually mean. You know, I kind of get the general gist of what they mean, but couldn't tell you for sure... so as someone who likes to learn new "stuff", I'm throwing it open to you to correct my guesses as to what these terms mean:

I have two explanations to offer firstly.
a. My Mum accidentally slammed my head in the fridge door when I was about 7.
b. She looked a lot older than 16 in the dark.
Now we have that out of the way.

1. Disposal / possession - interchangeable term. A "possession" is not actually counted until you've actually got rid of the ball. So if you are in possession of the ball when the siren goes, or you get dispossessed in a tackle, then even though you have had the ball (ie "possessed" it), it's not counted anywhere because you didn't actually dispose of it. So the term "disposal" is actually more accurate than "possession"??

A disposal is a kick or a handpass. Possessions are usually the sum of disposal and marks.

2. Uncontested possession - you're on your own in the clear, and you receive and then dispose of the ball.

Concur.

3. Contested possession - you actually dispose of the ball in a situation where you have had to contest opposition players to get hold of it??

Concur.

4. Hard ball get - how is this different from a contested possession????

Not usually used in our commentaries any more.

5. Loose ball get - the ball has come out of a pack, or has been kicked to space and you get it??

Again, no longer in common use.

6. Does a tackle have to actually bring someone down to be counted as a tackle in the stats?

I don't think so. I think you have to get hands on them and slow them down to a degree.

7. Clearances - you are credited with a clearance when you are the person who actually clears the ball and gets it moving forward (first link in the chain so to speak) from a bounce or a stoppage?

Concur.

OK - to those who are far more in the know than I, I await your informative and educational replies.

You could contact Prowess stats through: http://www.pro-stats.com.au/

They're even looking for people to do the stats for 2007 season.

 

[dockers_bengals]

1.disposal-handball or kick
possession-getting hold of the ball
2.I agree
3.getting the ball under pressure eg pack mark,ball ups
4.same as above
5.I agree
6.No,but has to impede him or force him to get rid of the ball and the second guy who tags on must get a stat as well
7.Yeah clear it out anywhere and anyhow.

there you go my two cents worth

 

[carn_freo]

Point 1 was spot on, to be in possesion of the ball means the player has it in their hands, but a "possesion" doesn't actually count until they dispose of it. A players possesions are the sum of his total kicks and handballs.

 

[Ysaye]

My understanding is....
1. Possessions is the word Peter Wilson uses to describe the number of times Rowan Jones gets the ball. Commentators only refer to disposals when the player in question can actually kick/handball decently.

2. Uncontested Possession - When one of the Bowden brothers gets the ball

3. Contested possession - When Benny Cousins gets the ball, someone tackles him and he gets a soft free kick for in the back.

4. Hard Ball Get - Isn't that something that Libbatore used to do?

5. Loose Ball Get - the same thing as above, except that Libba had already pulled to pants off the player.

6. Tackle - Something to do with fishing?

7. Clearance - Walking around shopping centres with one or more females after Christmas or July, mainly visiting clothes shops and having your bank balance reduced to nothing....

 

[dockers_bengals]

Nice one ysaye
Clearance-something cousins cant get from the police

 

[theGav56]

Thanks for that Ysaye. Always good to get the technical definitions down.

 

[Longy413]

Sorry to intrude guys but I think I can clear this up a little.

Currently there are two companies that supply statistics to AFL clubs and media sources. Champion Data are the official AFL statistic provider and the other is Prowess.

They both have slightly different definitions for different statistics.

A possession is a statistic, it occurs when you take possession of the ball. Even if you are tackled straight away, you are still awarded a possession. There are contested (hard ball get) and uncontested possessions (loose ball get). HBG and LBG are no longer used. A contested possession is when a player takes possession of the ball with immediate physical pressure from an opponent. An uncontested possession is everything else, handball receives, loose gathers etc.

Note - Possessions do not include marks. Marks (against contested and uncontested) are a separate statistic and yes, if you take a mark before the siren but do not dispose of it, you are still credited for the mark.

Disposals is the actual act of disposing of the ball, IE kick or handball. You can have more possessions than disposals.

A tackle doesn't have to bring someone to the ground, but for an effective tackle (ineffective tackles are also taken as a statistic) a turnover or a neutral sitution (IE a ball up) must result from the tackle. The tackles statistic we see printed in the paper is essentially effective tackles.

Clearance statistic is were there is the biggest inconsistency between the two providers. Prowess give the clearance to the player that actually clears the ball from the stoppage. Champion Data credit the clearance to the player that creates the opportunity for the clearance. EG. Sandilands wins the tap, Haselby wins the ball and handballs to the running Crowley who kicks inside 50. Prowess give the clearance to Crowley, Champion give it to Haselby.

Hope that helped.

 

[theGav56]

I think Longy has just nailed this thread.

 

[Bigger]

I think Longy has just nailed this thread.

That's what marking with your sprigs out will do.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Sorry to intrude guys but I think I can clear this up a little.

Currently there are two companies that supply statistics to AFL clubs and media sources. Champion Data are the official AFL statistic provider and the other is Prowess.

They both have slightly different definitions for different statistics.

A possession is a statistic, it occurs when you take possession of the ball. Even if you are tackled straight away, you are still awarded a possession. There are contested (hard ball get) and uncontested possessions (loose ball get). HBG and LBG are no longer used. A contested possession is when a player takes possession of the ball with immediate physical pressure from an opponent. An uncontested possession is everything else, handball receives, loose gathers etc.

Note - Possessions do not include marks. Marks (against contested and uncontested) are a separate statistic and yes, if you take a mark before the siren but do not dispose of it, you are still credited for the mark.

Disposals is the actual act of disposing of the ball, IE kick or handball. You can have more possessions than disposals.

A tackle doesn't have to bring someone to the ground, but for an effective tackle (ineffective tackles are also taken as a statistic) a turnover or a neutral sitution (IE a ball up) must result from the tackle. The tackles statistic we see printed in the paper is essentially effective tackles.

Clearance statistic is were there is the biggest inconsistency between the two providers. Prowess give the clearance to the player that actually clears the ball from the stoppage. Champion Data credit the clearance to the player that creates the opportunity for the clearance. EG. Sandilands wins the tap, Haselby wins the ball and handballs to the running Crowley who kicks inside 50. Prowess give the clearance to Crowley, Champion give it to Haselby.

Hope that helped.

Yes it did - thanks. But I do have a further question. These original questions came up while I was perusing the 2006 FFC Year Book. The stats page has these figures:

Contested Possessions:
Peter Bell 172
Josh Carr 162
Matthew Pavlich 156
Michael Johnson 132
David Mundy 126

Uncontested Possessions
Heath Black 401
Peter Bell 354
Josh Carr 321
Brett Peake 305
Byron Schammer 299

Hard Ball Gets
Josh Carr 67
Peter Bell 53
Aaron Sandilands 52
Byron Schammer 49
Matthew Pavlich 47

Loose Ball Gets
Peter Bell 82
David Mundy 62
Matthew Carr 60
Michael Johnson 59
Josh Carr 58

Would you know what the difference would be in this scenario, given what you've told us? There must be some difference between CPs and HBGs, and UPs and LBGs, under this system - or is it likely that the club has some different way of counting these up?

 

[Longy413]

Okay, I thought Champion Data had stopped using HBG's and LBG's but I could be wrong.

I'll make the presumption that the stats used are Champion statistics. But it could very well be separate Fremantle FC statistics.

LBG's are basically gathers. They are possessions won in complete isolation and doesn't include uncontested marks, handball receives and the like.

HBG's I'm not so sure about, unless they are making a distinction between winning the ball winning the ball in a contest and basically being tackled or pressure immediately such as in a stoppage situation and winning the ball in a one-on-one kind of situation and basically just beating your opponent.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Cheers - thanks for your efforts, I appreciate it.

At the end of the day, the exact definitions aren't really important, I was just interested that's all. Now I know at least a bit more than I did before.

 

[Bezukhov]

Also free kicks are not counted where advantage is called as technically the free kick has been cancelled.

 

[theGav56]

Also free kicks are not counted where advantage is called as technically the free kick has been cancelled.

I find that very difficult to believe. Can anyone else confirm this? Also, is it a free kick? Or just a free?

 

[Longy413]

Also free kicks are not counted where advantage is called as technically the free kick has been cancelled.

Of course they are counted and the free kick is still awarded (as a statistic) to the player who was infringed upon.

The free kick hasn't been cancelled at all and can still be called back after advantage has been called.

Gav - 'Free kicks' are collated as Free's For and Free's Against.

The term 'free kick' is just part of the football vernacular from days gone by when the handball was rarely used, especially not in a stationary situation.

 

[dont bowl there]

Also free kicks are not counted where advantage is called as technically the free kick has been cancelled.

Im almost positive they still count, same as when a free is reversed. The original free is counted and the one that gets the free reversed.

 

[Bezukhov]

Im almost positive they still count, same as when a free is reversed. The original free is counted and the one that gets the free reversed.

It would depend on whether the second free kick is for an action that occurred before the first.

 

[Longy413]

It would depend on whether the second free kick is for an action that occurred before the first.

No it wouldn't.

Once the free has been awarded it is recorded as a statistic, regardless of whether there is advantage paid or it's reversed.

 

[dont bowl there]

It would depend on whether the second free kick is for an action that occurred before the first.

I was meaning that a free kick has occured, then some idiot runs in and pushes an opposition player and the free gets reversed. Both frees would be in the stats even though only the second one results in a possesion.