Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[Kynge of Begrem]

Off topic, but has anyone seen the male only scholarships offered by Ballet Australia?

http://www.ballettheatreaustralia.com/news/scholarships-male-dancers/

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Off topic, but has anyone seen the male only scholarships offered by Ballet Australia?

http://www.ballettheatreaustralia.com/news/scholarships-male-dancers/

Also, not sure if anyone is familiar with a mentoring group for men studying early childhood education...
http://w3.unisa.edu.au/unisanews/2013/June/story4.asp

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Ok Bainy, I'll play

Please provide evidence of Australian law or policy that enshrines:

-Female rebuttable presumption of child custody
-Lower sentencing for women
-Lower rates of females being reported/convicted of assault, sexual assault etc.

Evidence of lower sentencing for women
https://www.sentencingcouncil.vic.g...Gender Differences in Sentencing Outcomes.pdf

The rebuttable presumption of female custody is clearly evident if you go over decisions in the family court. Something I am not willing to do right now, cant be bothered. Its the truth, as i said, it's up to you people to do some work for once.

Lower reported rates is obviously annectodal. Im sure you could find a study but again, time for you people to do some work. If youre not a hermit, im sure youve been out on a Saturday night, and seen women assaulting one another, other people, taxi drivers, men, bouncers. These incidents arent reported because they often dont cause damage but it doesnt mean theyre not assault.

As i said to Maggie though, these are just generic examples. Discuss the proposition, in whatever way you want. Im not here to prove this to you, im here for you to do some research for once and try and prove it to me.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Off topic, but has anyone seen the male only scholarships offered by Ballet Australia?

http://www.ballettheatreaustralia.com/news/scholarships-male-dancers/

Cool, hardly relevant to professions though. You need male and female parts for Ballet, so if they cant get enough Male's they can find them whatever way they want.

You dont need men or women in business or schools. You need capable people, their sex is irrelevant.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Also, not sure if anyone is familiar with a mentoring group for men studying early childhood education...
http://w3.unisa.edu.au/unisanews/2013/June/story4.asp

Hmmn indeed.


I wonder what you think of mentoring programs for men in a univeristy/tertiary education field dominated by women such as early education, vs mentoring programs for women in a univserity education field dominated by women, such as law?

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Evidence of lower sentencing for women
https://www.sentencingcouncil.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/publication-documents/Gender Differences in Sentencing Outcomes.pdf

The rebuttable presumption of female custody is clearly evident if you go over decisions in the family court. Something I am not willing to do right now, cant be bothered. Its the truth, as i said, it's up to you people to do some work for once.

Lower reported rates is obviously annectodal. Im sure you could find a study but again, time for you people to do some work. If youre not a hermit, im sure youve been out on a Saturday night, and seen women assaulting one another, other people, taxi drivers, men, bouncers. These incidents arent reported because they often dont cause damage but it doesnt mean theyre not assault.

As i said to Maggie though, these are just generic examples. Discuss the proposition, in whatever way you want. Im not here to prove this to you, im here for you to do some research for once and try and prove it to me.

I suspect you have not even read the sentencing council report as it does not back up your argument that there is any sort of policy that sees women receiving lesser sentences than men.

Likewise there is no policy or law that gives effect to a presumption of female custody which is why you aren't 'willing' to locate one.

You are just running away from your own argument now, it's laughable, you have put up all your big brave arguments and they have collapsed on you, you have nothing of substance.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Cool, hardly relevant to professions though. You need male and female parts for Ballet, so if they cant get enough Male's they can find them whatever way they want.

You dont need men or women in business or schools. You need capable people, their sex is irrelevant.

You do know that being a member of the Australian Ballet is a full time job right? So it is, you know, a profession?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I suspect you have not even read the sentencing council report as it does not back up your argument that there is any sort of policy that sees women receiving lesser sentences than men.

Likewise there is no policy or law that gives effect to a presumption of female custody which is why you aren't 'willing' to locate one.

You are just running away from your own argument now, it's laughable, you have put up all your big brave arguments and they have collapsed on you, you have nothing of substance.

A policy is only as good as its implementation. Whilst there may be no legislative policy that reduces sentences for women, the facts show sentencing policies have led to lesser sentences for women in compareable crimes.

Hence why I said state and private and legilsative and common law. The jurisprudence of female sentencing established lower sentencing rates for women.

A policy is more that words on a government memorandum or a headline. Its the factual application.

These are the facts - this is policy creating these facts.

"But the policy doesnt suggest these facts should occur"

But they do occur, hence the policy promotes the state of facts.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

You do know that being a member of the Australian Ballet is a full time job right? So it is, you know, a profession?

A profession based on putting on shows with roles that require male and female performers. Im not talking about Hollywood, or the Ballet, im talking about professions that have no gender needs like Law, Medicine, Chiropractors, Engineers, Teachers, Mechanics etc etc.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

A policy is only as good as its implementation. Whilst there may be no legislative policy that reduces sentences for women, the facts show sentencing policies have led to lesser sentences for women in compareable crimes.

Hence why I said state and private and legilsative and common law. The jurisprudence of female sentencing established lower sentencing rates for women.

A policy is more that words on a government memorandum or a headline. Its the factual application.

These are the facts - this is policy creating these facts.

"But the policy doesnt suggest these facts should occur"

But they do occur, hence the policy promotes the state of facts.

As I thought, you have not read the report that you referenced

 

[FlowersByIrene]

As I thought, you have not read the report that you referenced

Ive read it. It states there is an imbalance in sentencing.
Claims this is due to "legitimate mitigating circumstances associated with gender" and therefore there isnt a bias. Firstly i'd disagree with some of this logic, and secondly i'd say it doesnt matter if you call it a bias or not, it's still privilige.

 

[romeohwho]

The pro-feminist individuals in this thread havent made any actual discussion on Feminism in a good few months and have been in pure defense mode. Which is generally not actually defense but scorn and "ppft youre wrong, im right" excellent argument.

So lets put it onto you.

Proposition:
'Women, who are the only sex to be specifically targeted in policy making (both state and private, legislative and common law), are the privileged sex".

Examples of sex based policies.
-Female rebuttable presumption of child custody
-Female only scholarships for Universities and High Schools
-Female only mentoring programs at Universities
-Female only professional associations
-Female Quota's
-Lower sentencing for women
-Lower rates of females being reported/convicted of assault, sexual assault etc.

And thats without looking at the general "proctectionist" natute of human kind that defends women almost universally, which is not given to males similarly.

Discuss.

Not looking for name calling, just seeing your opinion.

Don't know what you mean re rebuttal presumption but my understanding in Family Law is that the child's interests are paramount, so that overrides other things.
There are plenty of male- only scholarships at unis and school and scholarships are often offered in fields where women are significantly under-represented and I don't have problem with that idea.
Who cares if there are female -only professional associations? Or male only ones? Big deal.
Think the lower sentencing is worth looking at, although woman have lower recidivism rates and so things like that are factored in.
Lower rates of women reported for assault is surely just a reflection of the fact that women are less often the perpetrators. Got stats on this one?

 

[Chief]

See again, the classic "ppft youre wrong im right argument"

Do you realise how much of a joke you are?

If youre not here to discuss **** off out of the thread

You're the one making the claims. Then people say 'no, you're wrong' you claim victory.

Ok. The person posting on BigFooty under the screen name FlowersByIrene is a horse rapist. Discuss.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Ive read it. It states there is an imbalance in sentencing.
Claims this is due to "legitimate mitigating circumstances associated with gender" and therefore there isnt a bias. Firstly i'd disagree with some of this logic, and secondly i'd say it doesnt matter if you call it a bias or not, it's still privilige.

So you quoted a source that does not support your argument, well done. Mitigating factors are not privilege, they apply to everyone equally, it just happens that the women involved were more likely to have them than men. You're drowning here.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

So you quoted a source that does not support your argument, well done. Mitigating factors are not privilege, they apply to everyone equally, it just happens that the women involved were more likely to have them than men. You're drowning here.

Claims mitigating circumstances are just natural here but when men outnumber women in high company positions its sexism... right

I see your game.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Claims mitigating circumstances are just natural here but when men outnumber women in high company positions its sexism... right

I see your game.

I made no such claim, the report YOU quoted in defence of YOUR claim stated that, have another drink pal

 

[catstorm]

Ok. The person posting on BigFooty under the screen name FlowersByIrene is a horse rapist. Discuss.

Wow I've never commented in this thread and don't take a side just like to view issues and opinions, but as an admin this is a wildly inappropriate and frankly unacceptable approach to take.

You have let your emotions get the better of you and attacked a poster in a way that could only be discribed as libelous.

Whether it's facetious or not as an admin you should be setting a better example.

 

[Maggie5]

Wow I've never commented in this thread and don't take a side just like to view issues and opinions, but as an admin this is a wildly inappropriate and frankly unacceptable approach to take.

You have let your emotions get the better of you and attacked a poster in a way that could only be discribed as slanderous.

Whether it's facetious or not as an admin you should be setting a better example.

Slander - spoken
Libel - written

 

[catstorm]

Slander - spoken
Libel - written

I stand corrected, and will alter my original post.

 

[Chief]

Wow I've never commented in this thread and don't take a side just like to view issues and opinions, but as an admin this is a wildly inappropriate and frankly unacceptable approach to take.

You have let your emotions get the better of you and attacked a poster in a way that could only be discribed as libelous.

Whether it's facetious or not as an admin you should be setting a better example.

The object was to show it is invalid to argue that people have to prove your claim wrong. I should have used a less puerile example, though.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Disgusting

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It's so funny, because generally people who think of themselves as these social justice types like to think of themselves as "good people". They get high off their own self importance and morality, falsely of course, but that's what they think.

But as you can see in this thread, and all over facebook and social media. These social justice types are actually the most vindictive, evil and immoral people.

It's just humerous to observe from afar.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

People who recognise inequality are 'vindictive, evil and immoral'

 

[Lebbo73]

People who recognise inequality are 'vindictive, evil and immoral'

Haha. You generally see something that isn't really there. I had to double check your profile to make sure you weren't female!

 

[Illinois Nazi]

People who recognise inequality are 'vindictive, evil and immoral'

I don't know about those words, but some of them are certainly the most intolerant.