Review First 10 Weeks

[Rustof]

Doesn't Conca have one of the highest head high free kick counts in the league too?

 

[jko'neal]

First ten weeks is a pass for me. I had us 3 and 7 at best but last night was a huge missed oppurtunity as far as ladder position goes.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Gutsy making a call about guys like Batchelor Browne Conca Astbury & Nason when they are yet to play 2 full seasons at this level. Surely these guys are deserving a a bit more time to develop their games before we right them off completely.

Haven't written any of them off RT, not sure what your reading RT ?
As I stated Astbury , Nason haven't IMO cemented their spot and are playing at Coburg ??
Whilst I don't think Browne, Conca or Batchellor have shown enough to convince me they'll have long succesfull careers, a fair difference to writting someone off.
Also , why is there a need for players to be seen for around 50 games( 2 seasons or more ) before basing a decision on their ability ?
The selection of state squads , TAC squads and the like, all generally start from the opinion of the people/selectors , and at times are based upon one trial match ???
Oh and certainly without stats !!

 

[_Wang_]

I would have taken our first 10 weeks in a heart beat at the beginning of the season..
I will be first to admit I was very very disappointed, even gutted last night. Part of our problem is with some of our supporters is our expectations go through the roof with a couple of wins..
Sure what we dished out last night was unacceptable but young sides will do that to you.
To completely write the season off and to call for players heads like Conca,Batchelor etc is just plain ludicrous..
Take a chill pill guys and lets see how the next 3 games pan out..

 

[_RT_]

Haven't written any of them off RT, not sure what your reading RT ?
As I stated Astbury , Nason haven't IMO cemented their spot and are playing at Coburg ??
Whilst I don't think Browne, Conca or Batchellor have shown enough to convince me they'll have long succesfull careers, a fair difference to writting someone off.

So you suggesting that guys like Conca Browne & Batchelor won't have long successful careers isn't writing them off. What exactly is it then?

Also , why is there a need for players to be seen for around 50 games( 2 seasons or more ) before basing a decision on their ability ?
The selection of state squads , TAC squads and the like, all generally start from the opinion of the people/selectors , and at times are based upon one trial match ???
Oh and certainly without stats !!

I can assure you that you are quite wrong on this. I have a family friend who has been watched by TAC coaches since he was 14, the AIS(selected in the AIS squad this year) and AFL recruiters(including our own Francis Jackson) since he was 16(now in his second year of U/18's). But yeah you're right we don't need to see kids for a couple of years. We only need to see them for as little as 10 games in come cases and can make a call on whether they will have long term careers or not.

 

[juniortiger03]

We didn't beat west coast

beat WC today

We didn't even play against them and, we didn't play today

 

[juniortiger03]

I know one thing


We aren't going to jumpin j as much

jumpin j=jumpin jack riewoldt

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

So you suggesting that guys like Conca Browne & Batchelor won't have long successful careers isn't writing them off. What exactly is it then?


I can assure you that you are quite wrong on this. I have a family friend who has been watched by TAC coaches since he was 14, the AIS(selected in the AIS squad this year) and AFL recruiters(including our own Francis Jackson) since he was 16(now in his second year of U/18's). But yeah you're right we don't need to see kids for a couple of years. We only need to see them for as little as 10 games in come cases and can make a call on whether they will have long term careers or not.

RT , they haven't convinced me that they are going to have long term successfull careers, doesn't mean I'm convinced they aint going to have long term successfull careers.

RT, I'd suspect I have a little knowledge on how players are selected for TAC or state squads.
Yes some kids are identified through the VPSSA sides and the like, however there is a large number who make, or get the chop from State , Schoolboy and TAC selection, based on 1 trial match , some are excluded from the trial process due to previous knowledge.
Keep in mind also RT that the percentage of kids who make under 12( approx. ) state squads and make AFL list is in some years 80 odd percent.
I'd suggest also RT, that your family friend , most likely intially come under the notice of the AIS, TAC side, State and AFL recruiters, after being intially indentified within a trail game of some sort ?
There are also a number of players who make it from playing well in 1 trial game , make it onto a TAC cup list and perform well, without any previous elite squad respresentation , likewise they're are heaps who don't make TAC or state squads due to playing poorly in trial matches .

 

[_RT_]

RT , they haven't convinced me that they are going to have long term successfull careers, doesn't mean I'm convinced they aint going to have long term successfull careers.

RT, I'd suspect I have a little knowledge on how players are selected for TAC or state squads.
Yes some kids are identified through the VPSSA sides and the like, however there is a large number who make, or get the chop from State , Schoolboy and TAC selection, based on 1 trial match , some are excluded from the trial process due to previous knowledge.
Keep in mind also RT that the percentage of kids who make under 12( approx. ) state squads and make AFL list is in some years 80 odd percent.
I'd suggest also RT, that your family friend , most likely intially come under the notice of the AIS, TAC side, State and AFL recruiters, after being intially indentified within a trail game of some sort ?
There are also a number of players who make it from playing well in 1 trial game , make it onto a TAC cup list and perform well, without any previous elite squad respresentation , likewise they're are heaps who don't make TAC or state squads due to playing poorly in trial matches .

Rather than take this topic any further off track lets just agree to disagree. For mine you need to give your kids a good run before you can even start to make a call on them. AS I said you're entitled to your opinion on these kids, me I'm going to sit back and wait until at least the end of next year before I start worrying about our youngsters.

 

[SA TIGER]

I would have taken our first 10 weeks in a heart beat at the beginning of the season..
I will be first to admit I was very very disappointed, even gutted last night. Part of our problem is with some of our supporters is our expectations go through the roof with a couple of wins..
Sure what we dished out last night was unacceptable but young sides will do that to you.
To completely write the season off and to call for players heads like Conca,Batchelor etc is just plain ludicrous..
Take a chill pill guys and lets see how the next 3 games pan out..

Spot on Wang...it's been a positive start to the season, especially when we are in touch with the eight and deservedly above higher fancied opposition such as the Saints, Dogs, Cows and Dees!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Rather than take this topic any further off track lets just agree to disagree. For mine you need to give your kids a good run before you can even start to make a call on them. AS I said you're entitled to your opinion on these kids, me I'm going to sit back and wait until at least the end of next year before I start worrying about our youngsters.

RT , I think someone should be able to point out that they have concerns , and mention those points , on a developing player , without people insinuating that they have formed a negative opinion and written that player off ?

 

[Madison]

I think Batch and Conca have shown plenty to suggest they will have long successfull careers.

I don't really think you could do much more in your first 10 games. Martin and Judd probably did a bit more. But not much.

 

[Reckoner Tiger]

I think Batch and Conca have shown plenty to suggest they will have long successfull careers.

I don't really think you could do much more in your first 10 games. Martin and Judd probably did a bit more. But not much.

Spot on. I have huge wraps on Batchelor from what I have seen from him in his first 10 games. Looks like a 100 game player, and his footskills are great. Composed also.

Conca I like for almost the exact same reasons. I find it very, very weird that anybody would be questioning their futures considering they've been excellent in their first 10 games of their first year.

Maybe my expectations are low. Should they be All Australian material already?

EDIT: Came late to the whole RT vs. pace to freeze thing...but if I could weigh in on the 'lets not wait 50 games to judge how good players are going to be'...Gary Ablett? Jack Riewoldt? Probably 20 other A-graders in the game right now had very slow starts?

 

[El Tigre]

Spot on. I have huge wraps on Batchelor from what I have seen from him in his first 10 games. Looks like a 100 game player, and his footskills are great. Composed also.
quote]

Batchelor is a composed player, and seems have the time to make good decisions. Good defender that has the necessary attributes (just a bit more weight required). The only thing that gets me, is that he seems to have quite a high ball drop when kicking. i hadn't really taken much notice of it before, but i've seen it a bit of it recently. When you're under alot more pressure, its better to guide it down.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Spot on. I have huge wraps on Batchelor from what I have seen from him in his first 10 games. Looks like a 100 game player, and his footskills are great. Composed also.

Conca I like for almost the exact same reasons. I find it very, very weird that anybody would be questioning their futures considering they've been excellent in their first 10 games of their first year.

Maybe my expectations are low. Should they be All Australian material already?

EDIT: Came late to the whole RT vs. pace to freeze thing...but if I could weigh in on the 'lets not wait 50 games to judge how good players are going to be'...Gary Ablett? Jack Riewoldt? Probably 20 other A-graders in the game right now had very slow starts?

I too are happy with how they are going just not convinced they will be long term successful players , IMO it takes an extraordinary player to convince me of such within half a season of Footy .
As for early player identification , players don't have to dominate to show they have a future , some just show clear signs of having a wonderfull understanding of the game and the ability to make oponents 2nd rate and therefore the potential to be a very good player, and I'm ensure how someone couldn't identify that GA had substantial potential ?
FYI , the one outside of Cotchin, upon our list , IMO who has always shown the ability to be a very good player is Troy Taylor .

 

[Rayzorwire]

I find it very, very weird that anybody would be questioning their futures considering they've been excellent in their first 10 games of their first year.

Truly bizarre.

 

[MightyTiger]

I too are happy with how they are going just not convinced they will be long term successful players , IMO it takes an extraordinary player to convince me of such within half a season of Footy .
As for early player identification , players don't have to dominate to show they have a future , some just show clear signs of having a wonderfull understanding of the game and the ability to make oponents 2nd rate and therefore the potential to be a very good player, and I'm ensure how someone couldn't identify that GA had substantial potential ?
FYI , the one outside of Cotchin, upon our list , IMO who has always shown the ability to be a very good player is Troy Taylor .

So what will they be then?

Even Francis Jackson came out and said that he thinks they will be 200 game players for us but ptf doesn't think they will be long term players for us.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

So what will they be then?

Even Francis Jackson came out and said that he thinks they will be 200 game players for us but ptf doesn't think they will be long term players for us.

Where did I say they wouldn't be long term players ? Hint : no where.
I simply stated, words to the effect, that due to a couple of things I hadn't made up my mind , aren't totally convinced at this stage , that they will be long term successful players .
If you have formed that certainty, or Francis Jackson has , good for you and Francis , but I certainly haven't, yet !

 

[SleepingGiant]

Positives: The emergence of Vickery as a genuine future gun, I always knew he would be. King and Nahas being able to cement themselves in a strong future underbelly. Martin, Cotchin, and Rance. It was crucial that Rance and Vickery came on this year. We also have seen some gradual improvement. Jack Riewoldt leading the coleman despite being out of form.

Negatives: A non-defensive minded midfield. Players like Miller, McGuane, White, Tuck, who are taking the spot of a youngster. We need the young key position players like Astbury, Post, Griffiths, to force themselves into the team. Our ruck division is the worst in the league, the umpires rape us, and we allow the media to interfere with our development by getting sucked into their reverse mozza hype. Our defences weakness being masked by our midfield. Commentators bagging the shit out of us and never saying anything positive (i.e. Tony Shaw the spiteful **** and Lynch). Some stupid coaching moves (i.e. Not wearing Gloves to Darwin, horrendous match preparation where our players have media commitments like it is Grand Final week).

I have a lot of weaknesses because I believe if the negatives are cured then we become a better side.

 

[santa claws]

in the first 10 weeks we have easily been the most over rated club in the comp. by the media and by many many supporters who have taken their eye of the ball and forgotten we are in development.
bring on the wins hey fellas and ignore all else. just dont expect to play finals or if we ever get so lucky expect to do well at them.

we could easily have lost to bl ditto nm and ess. we have had a dream run with injury and the gods have smiled on us regularly in the fact we have struck most sides with injury problems or out of form, even then it hasnt helped at times as evidenced by the wb and port losses.

and one has to ask just how much has a lot of our players really improved on last yr. and the ones that have the real question is can they maintain it.

to me the only real positive is the fact we are playing kids and we need to keep doing it because i can see another 20 being turned over in the next 2 or 3 seasons.
we are 4 5 and 1 out of ten it could just as easily have been 1 and 9.

 

[Saturday@2]

Vickery, Grimes and Conca have all proven that they are a part of our future, so a successful first 10 weeks regardless of the win loss columns. Batchelor and Helbig have been played which is commitment to the future. Again good. Some middle range players seem to have improved (Nahas, Rance, Houli) but these guys are old enough that they need to continue this form for the remainder of the year before we can make anything of their improvement.

All in all a successful first ten weeks. Now if only Griffiths and one of Post/Astbury could make an impact in the last 12 weeks. Then we will have had an excellent year. And again this is independent of our wins and losses.

 

[Bazzar]

to me the only real positive is the fact we are playing kids and we need to keep doing it because i can see another 20 being turned over in the next 2 or 3 seasons.

20 more delistings over the next 2 or 3 years?

Name the 20 then, or havnt some of those been recruited yet

we are 4 5 and 1 out of ten it could just as easily have been 1 and 9.

We could also have been 6-4 or 7-3 or 2-8 or 5-5 or even 10-0.

 

[El Tigre]

Well we're going to use at least the 4 four picks in each of the 3 years + our traded pick, so there's 13 for starters. I think to extend to 20 might be a bit of a reach tho. No point in naming names, as some develop suddenly from being on the brink (ala Kingy) and some don't, and actually go backwards.

 

[santa claws]

20 more delistings over the next 2 or 3 years?

Name the 20 then, or havnt some of those been recruited yet



We could also have been 6-4 or 7-3 or 2-8 or 5-5 or even 10-0.

yep 20 more than happy to nam,e the names but that will just take over the topic if people insist i reckon 23. and you know your right we will probably over the next three yrs draft some players who will have to go in a short space of time or do you really think as it seems every player we draft is a good un.


to your second comment. no the very best we could have done being totally realistic that is, is 5 and 5. that is we take the 4 points against stkilda instead of 2.
then again we could just as easily have lost. how were the saints travelling when we eked out that draw.

we were belted in the 5 games we lost. and if we are to be totally honest with ourselves we could easily have lost three that we won. but being honest and realistic is something that is abhorrant to rfc supporters.

the only side we have comfortably beaten is freo and that was game on until three quarter time. and didnt they have some out very similar circumstances to last yr when we beat them, oh thats right we beat them last yr when they were under an injury cloud. so is beating them again in similar circumstances an actual improvement.

 

[Bazzar]

yep 20 more than happy to nam,e the names but that will just take over the topic if people insist i reckon 23.

Wont take over the topic as everyone will be interested in your assessment.

So please name the 23 ( or whole team plus emerg) that will be delisted in 2-3 years, and why?

Better still, just give your worst delisted team from the list we have now, and will they beat out best listed 22 in 3 years.