First caro .... Now Walls.

[mattys123]

Oooohhhh, I'm getting excited, why?

Because the only time we get a multiple amount of negative press is when we are actually doing the right thing, and are on the right track.

Whether it's been Caro, Wallsy, Crawford and a few others that have laid into us pre season, it's always a sign that see us as a genuine threat now.

 

[Col Davies]

I've discovered with Walls, that it is always best to back the opposite of what he says.

Caro has some credibility on some issues, Walls has no credibility on all issues.

 

[Col Davies]

Fair dinkum, some of you are so short sighted its unbelievable.

Caro was right, Eddie has made a few blunders of late. Its just that you cant stand to hear it from anyone. Big deal, she doesnt like Eddie. Do you think Eddie really cares? You just dont dismiss everything she says just because you cant sort out the wheat from the chaffe. Read what she says, decide what is truth and what is bias.

Some of it has an element of truth. Even Eddie would agree that he stuffed up last year with Shaw and Didak. He cant dispute the financial losses and he cant dispute that he hasnt presided over a flag. At some stage, as she suggests, the club and its members WILL demand success, be it this year, next year or in 5 years. It will happen because it has happened at every other club at some stage. So what she writes is just stating the bleeding obvious, yet some of you cant stand that! Straight away you think its bias and hate. Is it bias and hate the minute you start having the same thoughts, be it now or in the future?

Learn to deal with criticism, stop being so precious, what she writes isnt going to kill anyone.

As for Walls, in some ways he contradicts caro, yet you lump them in together. Caro say its Eddie, not MM, who's time is up, Walls says it might be MM's.

But what has Walls written that is so obviously wrong? Not much as far as I can see. MM hasnt delivered, he has an average record 50/50 ( I actually had it at 55%, but there you go) and there are others waiting in the wings, he is the last of his generation coaching. Which part of this is wrong that requires the mindless but expected idiot brigade to come out and start bagging because they cant stand to hear a word against the club?

Yeah yeah yeah, you all love the club, but the club is meant to return the love and produce. And maybe criticism is what is needed for it to get off its arse and do what is expected of it.

While some are just whingers with their own anti Collingwood agenda

 

[FuManchu]

Fu Man chu lets break down why the football world and not just Collingwood supporters cringed at Caroline Wilson.

Yes lets

She hates the Pies. SHe also hates Eddie.

Thats not entirely true, I have seen them together at media commitments. They have vigorous discussions, but usually amicable.

She wrote an article that was a personal attack on Eddie and how he runs the club. Was it called for?

Why isnt it called for? Its the start of the season, she is fresh back from a break. Collingwood have just lost 8mill, Eddie just had a season at the club he'd rather forget in terms of player stupidity, financial loss, poorer than expected on field performance in light of 2007.

When is a good time to question these things, if not leading into another season? Dont ever forget, Eddie plays his politicking very hard and it is well known he likes to politick in the background. So why can he get away with sniping at various figures, but he cant be held up to account himself? Eddie would understand this, you live by the sword, you sometimes get stabbed by it too.

Lets see how things have gone over the past 6 months since Didak/SHaw where he did stuff up, albeit because of the foolish mistakes of two individuals.

Its been the off season, so there has been little to stuff up. But he has made a far reaching statement about the intent of the club. So either he delivers or it bites him on the bum. Caro is well within her rights to write in the context of that alone. He opened his mouth and she is just reminding us all that based on the recent past, he hasnt delivered.

No off field indiscretions. An almost fully fit squad that has the more money being spent on them in training, recruitment and development than its rival clubs. A exciting young list that is predicted to go top four and is now a premiership threat.

yes, the common view. But really based on what? Pre season form? pre season form is no form at all. Always remember that (think carlton). Based on the 'mission' statements of this season being the big tilt? Well, he has promised before and not delivered. Based on last years slide from the previous year? mmmmm, I hope not. Surely not an evolution of the game plan? Not much has changed there to date. The only thing we can say for certaintly is that, the players are stronger and faster. But who is to say they really are any better or others havent progressed even more than we have? Predictions this early are ridiculous. I'll leave mine until Rd 10, most clubs dont feel compelled to at all, so why us and why now?

A few different points. Eddie no longer over exposed and because of Collingwood's smooth of season barely heard from the man.

But is it the stuff he is obviously doing in the background that has drawn attention. ust because we dont hear from him, doesnt mean that he is silent. And you have to admit, he would be filthy on Swann and Pratt, and rightly so. So I have no problem in believing he would have been very vocal about his defection. But can Eddie hold the high moral ground when he has caused a few people to defect themselves?

The article was almost completely unnessacary. Things are beautifully atm.

Thats your perspective. Its a bit like saying no political commentator can write a critical article when employment is high and interest rates are low. There is always reason for criticism. Are we so precious we cant handle it?

The article had more to do with her own agenda. It was so hypocritical and spiteful you had to laugh. It backfired so badly, potraying her in the true light that she tried claiming Eddie to be, that one couldn't help but feel sorry for the poor woman.

Caro has her agendas, eddie has his, every person in football has theirs. I like to hear them all, dont you?

 

[FIGJAM]

The 50% mark is illusory to some degree. He inherited a septic tank of a list in 2000, so 2000 and 2001 were get out of gaol free cards IMO.

He had a shocking 2004/2005 period, which was certainly partially his fault, but you could also cite some shit recruiting from 2001-2003 and age / injuries to the older players who carried us to 2002 and 2003 Grannies.

If you give him an allowance for 2000-2001 (and he missed 2001 by just one game!), then you could argue that he has made the finals 5 out of 7 times, including two Grand Finals and a Prelim loss. He's now got us to 4 competition finals since 2002.

All up he's had 5 major Grand Finals appearances in the past 20 years. 1 in 4 ain't bad! Of course, we want him to win one for us, but I don't buy into this rubbish that only the 'new-generation' coaches can win. Malthouse can win big games.

It is his last crescendo though. To state that is stating the obvious. But hey, when it comes to stating the obvious, or exuding homoerotic fantasies about AFL players, nobody does it better than Robert Walls!

 

[Heater39]

Walls has the uncanny ability of writing articles that get proven incorrect shortly after.

Think I might put some money on us for the flag

 

[FuManchu]

While some are just whingers with their own anti Collingwood agenda

You have been exposed this week, perhaps you are best leaving it to your 8 other nom de plumes

 

[Heater39]

You have been exposed this week, perhaps you are best leaving it to your 8 other nom de plumes

Was he also that SteeleAt11 guy (who had countless other aliases as well) ?

 

[FuManchu]

Was he also that SteeleAt11 guy (who had countless other aliases as well) ?

If he mentioned tissues in his posts, then it was him. he had an obsession with tissues. I'm thinking his room is littered with used ones.

 

[Dave The Man]

So the AGE wants Eddie Sacked?

 

[Col Davies]

tissue

 

[Pie eyed]

I have only two things to add to this thread.

Walls is a fool.

I won't be entering into any further argument about Malthouse tenure until we see some results from the real footy.By Round 5-6 would be a good time to see how things are going.

 

[FuManchu]

So the AGE wants Eddie Sacked?

How do you get that?

Firstly the AGE doesnt tell their journos what to write, the paper is just a medium for their journos opinions.

secondly, two journos write articles stating the obvious and the insecure jump down their throats. If MM and Eddie were at any other club, you, myself and everyone else would be asking the same questions about them. Just because they dare question our club, some get all precious and defensive.

Name any other club in the AFL that has gone this long with the same coach and same president without winning a flag. There may be one or two, but I reckon they would be very rare indeed especially in the last 20 years. So given the expectations placed on both coach and president, these articles have some merit.

 

[morax]

I have only two things to add to this thread.

Walls is a fool.

I won't be entering into any further argument about Malthouse tenure until we see some results from the real footy.By Round 5-6 would be a good time to see how things are going.

Well said.

There is no point to it. Round 1 hasn't even started yet. This is the time to optimistic, back the coach, players and president.

 

[Snag Breac]

Tissue?

No, no! Atishoo!

It's well seen it's game day.

 

[Paddywhackers]

Yes lets
Thats not entirely true, I have seen them together at media commitments. They have vigorous discussions, but usually amicable.
Why isnt it called for? Its the start of the season, she is fresh back from a break. Collingwood have just lost 8mill, Eddie just had a season at the club he'd rather forget interms of player stupidity, financial loss, poorer than expected on field performance in light of 2007.

It is the start of the season. We have known about the 8 mill for a long time now, i'm sure she wrote articles on the loss in the past. Sure 2008 might have been a poor year, however your actually being umbelievably short sighted. I don't know why I am giving you any credibility after kiss stephanie destroyed your negative agenda in another thread to be honest I don't want to debate with someone that is incredibly short sighted.

Fact, we spend more on recruitnment training and development than other clubs. The fact that we have a fresh, exciting talented young list is largely a consequence of Eddies management of the CFC over the past ten years putting us in a position to do so. Basically we are fast closing in on Geelong and Hawthorn and as we are all well aware, the likes of Walls and Wilson don't like this, and in the case of Caro (who it is widely accepted has issues with Eddie) wants us to fail.

Why attack our club when they really have not put a thing wrong for 6 months? If your perspective is that we can't make the top four in 2009, and that Caro was in her right mind to persoanlly attack Eddie from left field when most Collingwood supporters are happy with him because they (and probably in a jealous way her too) see Collingwood as a real threat for a flag this year and more so in the next, than you really do have a warped perspective.

And politics is a poor example, unless you use international relations (using realism) as a comparison to football and than it becomes obvious that Richmond doesn't really like Collingwood and Caro has a blatant personal bias and sees Collingwood as a big threat.

 

[Rohan Coventry]

This type of critique is only a positive for the FC as a whole.

 

[FuManchu]

It is the start of the season. We have known about the 8 mill for a long time now, i'm sure she wrote articles on the loss in the past.

a fact that only came to light in December, she usually doesnt start until late January

Sure 2008 might have been a poor year, however your actually being umbelievably short sighted.

I have 10 years of hindsight

I don't know why I am giving you any credibility after kiss stephanie destroyed your negative agenda in another thread to be honest I don't want to debate with someone that is incredibly short sighted.

He/she was criticised by a number of Collingwood supporters for not having anything to say other than he/she disagreed. And then he /she says we dont play wide ............ Bwahahaha, yeah right!!!! Destroyed you say, good god! the very next game, we played wider than ever!

Fact, we spend more on recruitnment training and development than other clubs.

And the rewards have been? You might not want to use that too often until it bears the ultimate fruit perhaps.

The fact that we have a fresh, exciting talented young list is a consequence of Eddies management of the CFC over the past ten years.

Billy Morrison and co are the consequences of Eddies management? Even the most harshest critics wouldn't sheet blame home to Eddie on that score. That my friend is MM's dept. Eddie has done undoubted good at Collingwood and I dont think he is in danger or should he be. But he needs to make decisions to push us to the top, not continually in sight of the top. Thats his job. I think he has had too cosy an arrangement with MM. But I am also of the belief that this year he has basically bung it all back in MM's lap and said produce or get out. Hence the big statements coming out of Lexus.

Basically we are fast closing in on Geelong and Hawthorn and as we are well aware, the likes of Walls and Wilson don't like this, and in the case of Caro (who it is widely accepted has issues with Eddie) wants us to fail.

We dont know that yet, last year we fell 8 goals further behind Hawthorn. And what is your concern if Caro wants us to fail? 15 others club's supporters want us to fail. Nothing has changed in that regard since I can remember. Does that mean some of what she wrote is wrong? Can you point out the bits she got wrong? Or Walls for that matter

Why attack our club when they really have not put a thing wrong for 6 months?

Because Eddie opened his mouth AND MADE A HUGE 'MISSION' STATEMENT. Thats always bound to attract attention.

If your perspective is that we can't make the top four in 2009,

We probably can. but we actually need to do better than that. Much better. How many 4ths are you going to be content with in life? I've seen quite a few, they have no meaning to me. A flag is the only result I expect and so should you.

and that Caro was in her right mind to persoanlly attack Eddie from left field when most Collingwood supporters are happy with him because they (and probably in a jealous way her too) see Collingwood as a real threat for a flag this year and more so in the next, than you really do have a warped perspective.

Eddie personally attacks people quite a bit himself. Its his MO. I am sure this is just another square off stemming back years. Who really cares? its not like all our lives ended on the day she was nasty to Eddie. FFS!

And it may interest you to know, 15 other clubs supporters might like to read these things, as they themselves have had their clubs dragged thru the mud over the years too by journos. And those 15 other clubs have a far wider readership than Collingwood can muster. So its good copy for the papers.

Stop being so precious.

 

[Witty Remark]

Caro and walls are hack jurnos.
Believe me they couldn't stand the fact that collingwood can have success.

I'm sorry but what success has Collingwood had in the past 20 years? A premiership in 1990 does not a successful team make. I agree with you that they're hack journos, however you need to get a little perspective on where they're coming from. Yes you have an exciting young team that should do well in the future, (particularly seeing how often you don't travel interstate), however i also think with the talent you have had in the past 20 years, you probably should have had some silverware. The fact remains is that you haven't won anything - as hard as that is for you to swallow. I also think that until you get a legitimate ruckman who can remain injury free, the elusive premiership will remain out of Collingwoods grasp.

This is just my humble Adelaide opinion, which you may now begin to ridicule.


_______________
VB for captain

 

[Witty Remark]

He was obviously talking about our last couple of years winning finals while rebuilding.. even won a few finals interstate if memory serves

Your memory serves you well. However i don't think a year can be considered a success because you won a couple of finals games (although it would be nice if Adelaide could win one or two). Those years can be more successful than years when you haven't won finals matches, but in 10 years looking back i don't think any Pies supporter will remember them as a success. The fact remains that you haven't won the finals match that matters.

Should be a cracking game in round 1. Looking forward to seeing our young and exciting forward line kick a few sausage rolls.


_____________
VB for captain

 

[Kirby]

This type of critique is only a positive for the FC as a whole.

I agree. The criticism binds us. It makes the club stronger.

The more they hate us, the more I love us.

Go Pies!!

 

[FuManchu]

Lets have a real look at what she said

IF IT is true that the drums are beating at Collingwood then there is a very strong argument for a case of mistaken identity.
The jungle music should not be banging in Mick Malthouse's ears but in those of his president, Eddie McGuire.

I dont know about any dissent at board level, but it probably doesnt pay to bag out Alex Waslitz's father in law.

It has been said incorrectly that Malthouse needs a premiership to survive.

Wrong! thats his job, he hasnt delivered

The truth is that McGuire's brilliant service for the Collingwood Football Club is threatening to become tainted by his obsessive behaviour in recent times and occasional rantings against anyone who has done him wrong.
He has not always been easy to work with but the end has always justified the means.

Undeniable, we all know you dont cross Eddie, especially when he had a media forum to grandstand with. Maybe its because he doesnt ave such a presence that he is yelling louder and louder to be heard in the corridors

There have been signs that his normally razor sharp judgement has been blunted in his bid to settle personal scores.

Not that hard to believe. Eddie plays it hard.

McGuire began 11 years ago to mould Collingwood in his winning image. Now his occasional bitterness is tainting the club he loves.
If McGuire remains pledged to the black-and-white religion that has punctuated his existence then he will be starting to plan for a life at the Lexus Centre without him — and a life for himself without the words "Collingwood president" in front of his name.

You only get so long at the top, succession planning is the hallmark of all good organisations

The first genuine sign that McGuire and his usually successful thumping style were not working for Collingwood took place last August in the 48 hours that followed the Heath Shaw-Alan Didak drinking binge.
As always, McGuire placed himself at the centre of the media scrum in a manner that only made things so much worse for the club and the players. Had it been handled differently who knows whether Didak's season might have ended differently also.

Undeniable bad day at the office for Eddie

Even Nathan Buckley took a swipe at his friend, former boss and maybe future one as well. The AFL raised its eyebrows and McGuire was further embarrassed when his now famous "Gold Logie" rant to the players was leaked to the media.

He needs to look into that leak. LOL. Again Eddie using bluster and not coming off as he intended. I liked the bit where he had a go at B Johnson for being fat. Maybe Eddie needs to do a few laps himself!

It is not being cruel to state the obvious — that the president has more time on his hands at present and therefore more time to micro-manage the comings and goings of the Lexus Centre and to attend overseas training camps and AFL Appeals Board hearings.

He does have more time on his hands

But it is also true that the Collingwood board is a significantly different beast than the one McGuire put together in 1998. New processes have been put in place to ensure that directors are never kept in the dark and they are a more questioning bunch these days, too.

Its the sign of a functioning board. Good on him. Its hardly criticism

To that end, a facilitator was brought in over summer to improve the workings of the board.

see above

And it is why more work was done on Ben Cousins than may have been done in the past.
And why more diligence will be done in future on hotel ventures — particularly those that see $8.3 million wiped from the club's accounts in 18 months.

Seems she agrees these were prudent steps, hardly criticism

McGuire told his members at the Magpies' annual general meeting — members who, in fairness, largely support him to the hilt and always will — that he should have stepped aside from Collingwood while running Channel Nine in Sydney and returned once his professional obligations allowed.
He said he would cop his right whack for that failed investment and not blame others who may be no longer at the club. It is a pity he has not honoured that obligation privately.

Has Eddie bagged out Eugene and Swanny behind their backs? Thats not like Eddie. cough cough cough. Eddie presided over the whole affair. he must have either rubber stamped those deals or something more active. So he must get some of the blame. Whats wrong with what she wrote?

McGuire attempted to make amends with his departed CEO Greg Swann and Swann's spurned No. 2 Eugene Arocca over coffee last year but the fact that Swann walked out on the Magpies for Carlton — of all clubs — burnt deep into McGuire's psyche.

Not hard to believe. Alex again?

Then Chris Judd chose Carlton. Then Richard Pratt took aim at McGuire in the belief the Pies' president was privately bad mouthing him.

Alex is a double agent? Still not hard to believe Eddie has that broadmeadows mentality of 'hard done by'

For McGuire it has, until recently, always been about Collingwood, but more recently it seems too often to be all about him. And the Magpies are not always happy to wage wars of the president's choosing.
Richmond president Gary March was right last week to criticise McGuire's tendency to comment on issues relating to other clubs.

Yes, Eddie does like to stick his nose into others business, as commented time and time again by many other clubs supporters. So this is hardly news fellas.

When McGuire became president of Collingwood just over 11 years ago he breathed new life into an institution that was choking on the cobwebs of faded glories long gone.
He has become such a massive figure there now that when he thumps too hard he threatens to suck the life out.

He created this for himself, sometimes it bites you when not all goes well

It is not understating history to say that McGuire made Collingwood powerful again. His bold decision to turn his back on Victoria Park and move to the Lexus Centre became the prototype for so many Victorian clubs, none of which could claim the geographic benefits of the Olympic Park precinct.
Only a permanent training ground for his players has eluded him but that should be remedied soon. McGuire, along with his football boss and CEO stated unequivocally four days ago that the club's aim this season is to remedy the other missing achievement from his notable Collingwood curriculum vitae — a premiership.

He has done this, none of this really news

It is wrong to say McGuire has put pressure on his coach by talking premierships — he only stated the flag ambition as an aim — but it is true that he planted the seed of the Malthouse contractual situation back into the minds of the media.

I reckon this is Eddie 'its me or MM' edict. pressure must surely be all in MM's lap to perform. One of them has to pay for the sin of 10 years of failure eventually. Eddie just posturing himself to ensure its not him?

In the beginning McGuire lured back the disenchanted and united the factions, holding fast always to the priceless value of the black-and-white jumper, which he also revolutionised by selling seven-figure sponsorships for both back and front.
McGuire was brave, tireless and passionate. His public performances consisted of a healthy balance of 75 per cent charm and 25 per cent menace. The balance of that equation has changed.
In the past he made mistakes and overstepped the mark but Collingwood always remained his focus. The Magpies were the richest club in the AFL with an MCG agreement the envy of all the other tenants.

Nothing wrong with this, he has made mistakes, but the club has always been his focus. Hardly criticism of him, excpet the overstep comment. But many would agree he often has

Now Hawthorn has overtaken Collingwood in everything but average attendances. Its president Jeff Kennett has pushed to introduce mandatory maximum terms for club presidents at his club.

They have overtaken us in everything that is important in modern terms

If McGuire is true to Collingwood he should consider doing the same and start thinking succession plans.

There should always be a succession plan, from day 1

 

[MarkT]

So given the expectations placed on both coach and president, these articles have some merit.

Like I said in one of the Carro threads (may have been on the main board), it is possible to mount an argument that Eddie has had his time but the article just didn’t do it. The Walls article not only fails to do the job, it is a heard production from a Collingwood hater. Not a leading article by a journo.

MM has had plenty of opportunity to build the squad. Eddie has had plenty of opportunity to build the team to build and coach the squad. After that they should have read threads on the various boards if they didn’t have the evidence and examples to back themselves up but they just ran off at the mouth/pen.

Quality journalism is hard to find.

 

[MarkT]

I agree. The criticism binds us. It makes the club stronger.

The more they hate us, the more I love us.

Go Pies!!

I suspect Rohan means the scrutiny is a good thing which is correct. Our board needs to be under more pressure and more scrutiny.

 

[Paddywhackers]

Stop being so precious.

I, like the majority of people including posters that hate Collingwood, percieved Caro's article as a nasty personal attack that was supposed portay Eddie in a similair light. Surely you, with all your percpective could acknowledge that the article backfired? Can't you? All you need to do is read the thread about the article on the main board and people are actually on Eddies side. Even people that hate him because he is Collingwood. She believes that Eddie should be under threat however the vast vast majority of Collingwood supporters are very happy with him.

We, who have contributed in this thread speak for the Collingwood football club, we the are the supporters and who the football club is for. We have every right to criticise Caro for a blatant personal attack on our president claiming that he is nasty and isn't doing a good job when we all know Caro hates Eddie and the club. Because afterall Eddie wants was best for our club and she doesn't. And the vast majority of us believe he is doing a very good job.

I don't care if Eddie is sometimes nasty. Overall he is a fantastic person, he does so much for society overall and wouldn't it be shortsighted not to acknowledge that? Rather than attack the guy and potray him as a nasty human being? He actually does a hell of a lot for society. Caro who sees herself, by judging the behaviour of young adults who kick a ball around, as some sort of moral dictator and she actually does nothing for society. Funny isn't?

I actually said myself that I felt sorry for her and I genuinely did, and Snag Break told me I had to harden up. It would have been water of a ducks back for Ed. The article backfired badly any sensible person would have cringed when they realized who wrote it.