Article Fitzroy's Long Slow Death (AFL.com.au)

[HBF]

They could have survived just as well as the other smaller Melbourne clubs I think is the point. They were targeted.

In any case given their own destiny, they may well be based in Canberra or Tassie by now. Or merged with North.

As Paul Roos said himself, they should have gone to Brisbane at the end of '86.

 

[Doss]

And the AFL sent them to WA to play their final match.
Absolute cowards they were back then.

Despite all clubs agreeing to a reshuffling of the fixture so that their final match would be the Richmond game that ended up being played in Round 21.

 

[John_Proctor]

hard to imagine Fitzroy making it to the VFL. the budget to do so would be about $500,000 a year I'd suggest given you need to compete with the AFL reserves teams.

at the moment the club is still in B Grade VAFA and not looking likely for promotion this year. Probably getting into A Grade would be a good start.

 

[HBF]

Despite all clubs agreeing to a reshuffling of the fixture so that their final match would be the Richmond game that ended up being played in Round 21.

Pretty much the final kick in the nuts to the Fitzroy Football Club from the AFL.

 

[Broken]

As rubbish as the treatment they received from the AFL was this imo is what it really boiled down to unfortunately. With so few of the football following public supporting Fitzroy it just opened the door for the league to steamroll them without much of a whimper at the end.

It certainly made us easy pickings as we didn't have the large, or influential, supporter base that others had at the time.

I checked out the crowd numbers during the last 20 years of Fitzroys existence and it does back up the poor fan base POV. In our last 10 years we were always among the bottom 3 average crowd numbers along with the fledgling Brisbane and Sydney outfits. Even during our successful window during the early 80s we were still one of the lower drawing clubs (even if the Junction Oval always felt like it was overflowing).
That in itself was always going to be an uphill battle that some clubs still face today, then you add in everything else and it's a sad tale on all sides, glossed over by the article in the OP.

 

[footyfan1978]

There is a difference between below 20,000 and averaging below 8,000.

Yeah, there is when one club is already announced by the league it will no longer has a future to play in the league.....

 

[Roylion]

The Lions moved from the Junction Oval long before Essendon started playing at the MCG.

Regardless, the MCG wasn't an option for Fitzroy from 1985 onwards. The Club would have liked to play there - that's one of the reasons they approached Melbourne to merge in the mid-eighties. The "Melbourne Lions" was days away from being put to the clubs' members for voting as the respective boards had agreed on all the relevant details, name, colours, jumper, board makeup, etc.

In the end Melbourne got cold feet and broke off talks.

Besides, like I said, the pressures on Fitzroy were the same or lesser than those on other clubs at the time. St Kilda didn't choose to play at Waverley. It was forced on us.

Fitzroy applied to play at Waverley (a stadium in the population centre of the Melbourne metropolitan region and were knocked back.

So you had a choice?

Which bit of "Yes it was" (forced on us), didn't you understand?

Despite what you say re: making a profit, it was still a stupid decision.

"A stupid decision"? Despite making a profit? Is that the best you can offer? I've explained why Princes Park was not a viable option.

And what decision would you have made, O wise one?

No lease, no ground revenue and getting billed $6,000 at Princes Park was viable was it?

MCG not an option. Waverley not an option. Kardinia Park not an option. Princes Park not viable? Etihad not built. What's left?

Victoria Park and the Western Oval.

The sponsors you were attracting weren't serious sponsors. They were sponsors that wanted free publicity knowing full well the AFL would knock them back. i.e. ambush marketing. Galaxy was the classic example of this. Fitzroy were so desperate they wasted time and frustration trying to win a PR battle.

Fitzroy looked at all possible revenue streams in order to generate funds to remain in the competition. As they should have.

As for the Canberra proposal, having an idea doesn't mean the governing body should hand over millions in cash.

What are you talking about? Millions in cash? Fitzroy had already played one quite successful game at Bruce Stadium against West Coast. All that Fitzroy asked for from the AFL was to be scheduled home games (up to seven if the AFL wished) in Canberra and that the AFL would foot the bill for the team's transport up to Canberra, the same as they did for every other Victorian club, travelling interstate.

Lions supporters still don't appreciate this fundamental point.

That's because its not a fundamental point. It's not a point at all.

Comparing what the AFL did post 2000 to what they did a decade earlier is like comparing chalk and cheese.

I don't know if you've noticed but the media industry sort of exploded in the late 90's and that completely changed the equation for all sports including the AFL. Selling media rather than tickets became the main source of revenue.

Channel 7 paid the AFL $102 million for the broadcast deal between 1993–1998, on top of the AFL's other revenue streams from ticketing, marketing, ground revenue and the like. The AFL had the money ($12 million in 1996 to effect mergers) - they didn't have the desire to keep Fitzroy in the competition.

 

[Scotland]

Hence the continued attempts to innovate and remake themselves, whether that be playing interstate, or relocating, or merging with North.

The AFL actually actively thwarted these attempts. It's shocking stuff when you read about it.

This attitude didn't die with Fitzroy, it's still the AFL's MO.

If the AFL had their way we wouldn't have North Melbourne, we'd have the Gold Coast Kangaroos. The only reason that didn't happen is because North were smart enough to read the fine print and told them to GTFO - and they couldn't force them to go without consent. Had that gone ahead we'd probably have seen he Bulldogs and Saints pressured into moving to Western Sydney.

Princes Park, Whitten Oval... wherever are off limits. The AFL doesn't mind clubs making money and exploring new markets, but it has to be with their rubber stamp and not at the expense of the contracts they have with the MCG and Etihad Stadium. You could probably sell one game to Perth and make as much as selling 2 or 3 to Canberra, but that's a no no. Can't go damaging the integrity of the fixture.

 

[Roylion]

If the AFL had their way we wouldn't have North Melbourne, we'd have the Gold Coast Kangaroos. The only reason that didn't happen is because North were smart enough to read the fine print and told them to GTFO - and they couldn't force them to go without consent.

And as someone has already pointed out, North Melbourne supporters and members had seen their future with what had happened with the Brisbane Lions. 5 games in Melbourne per year, little TV coverage in Melbourne, further changes to the North Melbourne identity as time passed. That's why I doubt there will ever be another 'merger' of a Mebourne based club interstate. Or a relocation.

 

[yodellinhank]

Channel 7 paid the AFL $102 million for the broadcast deal between 1993–1998, on top of the AFL's other revenue streams from ticketing, marketing, ground revenue and the like. The AFL had the money ($12 million in 1996 to effect mergers) - they didn't have the desire to keep Fitzroy in the competition.

Why throw good money after bad?

 

[Roylion]

at the moment the club is still in B Grade VAFA and not looking likely for promotion this year. Probably getting into A Grade would be a good start.

Half a game out of the Top Four with seven rounds to go. Fourth best percentage. An outside chance still. Get into the Finals and anything might happen. Only have to reach the GF to be promoted.

 

[Scotland]

Channel 7 paid the AFL $102 million for the broadcast deal between 1993–1998, on top of the AFL's other revenue streams from ticketing, marketing, ground revenue and the like. The AFL had the money ($12 million in 1996 to effect mergers) - they didn't have the desire to keep Fitzroy in the competition.

The Brisbane merger was an investment. You can't really compare giving $1m or however much to keep Fitzroy afloat a while longer with investing up to $12m into a new market. Brisbane aren't exactly setting the world on fire right now but in the AFL's eyes the investment absolutely paid off. Even where they are now they have a lot bigger profile than they did pre-merger. Best case scenario for a surviving Fitzroy is battling it out with the usual suspects to not be the smallest Melbourne club.

It's not that far removed from today. Clubs that are struggling are usually not that far from breaking even yet the AFL can invest tens of millions into NSW and Qld because they're chasing rugby league heartland and a big fat TV deal.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The Brisbane merger was an investment. You can't really compare giving $1m or however much to keep Fitzroy afloat a while longer with investing up to $12m into a new market. Brisbane aren't exactly setting the world on fire right now but in the AFL's eyes the investment absolutely paid off. Even where they are now they have a lot bigger profile than they did pre-merger. Best case scenario for a surviving Fitzroy is battling it out with the usual suspects to not be the smallest Melbourne club.

It's not that far removed from today. Clubs that are struggling are usually not that far from breaking even yet the AFL can invest tens of millions into NSW and Qld because they're chasing rugby league heartland and a big fat TV deal.

I think the comparison was with the amount given to other Melbourne clubs, not Brisbane.

The merger $ were also available for Melbourne and Hawthorn.

The payoff wasn’t a Brisbane presence, there already was one. It was a spot for Port Adelaide.

 

[Scotland]

I don't really buy into the Fitzroy in the VAFA being the 'same' club as readily as others.

It's great to see the name, jumper etc. back but really it's just an existing club that Fitzroy basically took over.

And as someone has already pointed out, North Melbourne supporters and members had seen their future with what had happened with the Brisbane Lions. 5 games in Melbourne per year, little TV coverage in Melbourne, further changes to the North Melbourne identity as time passed. That's why I doubt there will ever be another 'merger' of a Melbourne based club interstate. Or a relocation.

They had the chance to relocate completely rather than merge with an existing club so it was a bit different, but as has been pointed out before the deal on the table wasn't as enticing as it was painted to be. They (North) did toy with the idea for years, though. Thankfully they had people (white knights?) who read the fine print and made the right call.

Fitzroy fans are having a bit of an each way bet, though, with Fitzroy 'still playing as they have since 1883' while simultaneously having the Brisbane Lions pseudo-represent them in the AFL.

 

[SgtSchulz]

Yeah, there is when one club is already announced by the league it will no longer has a future to play in the league.....

You would think that if your club has been announced to be cut that you would attend games in droves to save it.

When we lost our first AFL licence in 1990, our attendances went up by 16%.

 

[Scotland]

I think the comparison was with the amount given to other Melbourne clubs, not Brisbane.

The merger $ were also available for Melbourne and Hawthorn.

The payoff wasn’t a Brisbane presence, there already was one. It was a spot for Port Adelaide.

The payoff was two-fold. Getting a 2nd team in Adelaide and getting their hands inside Brisbane.

Assuming both mergers went ahead Melbourne Hawks would've reduced the number of clubs in Melbourne by two in one hit and left scope for the next expansion project to even up the number of clubs.

AFL wishlist was probably:

Brisbane merger with Fitzroy, 15
Melbourne merger with Hawthorn, 14
Port in, 15
North to Gold Coast, 15
Bulldogs to Western Sydney, 15
3rd team in Perth, 16
Saints to Tassie, 16

or something along those lines. Maybe they would've tried to get down to 14.

All in the past now. 18 team$ mean$ 9 game$ a round.

 

[smasha]

I was at Fitzroys last Melbourne game.
Very sad day and every Richmond supporter including myself sang the Fitzroy song with gusto.
My uncle played for Fitzroy in the 60s.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

I was at Fitzroys last Melbourne game.
Very sad day and every Richmond supporter inclluding myself sang the Fitzroy song with gusto.
My uncle played for Fitzroy in the 60s.

What's his name?

 

[smasha]

Bruce Mc Master-Smith.
He had a brief time there.
I also played in a band and 3 of the members ,who were brothers(Fitzgeralds) played for the Fitzroy under 19s.

My first gf's family were mad passionate Roys and Iused to go watch them play quite a lot.
I saw that great game when Roos was playing for the Roys and Pert for Collingwood when Roos kicked the winning goal.

Also grew up in Sth Morang at the time Kevin Murray was playing.
Always got a soft spot for them and the Saints.

Good supporters.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Bruce Mc Master-Smith

Did he see the writing on the wall back then or was that too early?

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Doubtful. They have no ground that meets VFL specifications. Nor do they have the revenue streams for that sort of commitment.



Fitzroy are looking to get into the VAFA's premier division (i.e. A-Grade) and win premierships there. That has been the short term goal. With a bit of luck, getting into the Premier League via promotion, MAY happen this season.



Brisbane still have an agreement with Fitzroy. My guess is that the Lions would oppose an alignment with North Melbourne in the VFL.

Thanks Roylion. I didn't know Brunswick St Oval wasn't suitable for VFL football.
Rising through the VAFA divisions may be the best way to progress. Steady build towards a stronger and sustainable future, then if A grade premierships come, look to move up to VFL. (I'm assuming that's the most logical progression, rather than joining say, the northern football league.)
Perhaps in 5-10 years that might be considered, if Fitzroy are strong and ambitious enough.

 

[smasha]

Did he see the writing on the wall back then or was that too early?

Early 60s then.

 

[Roylion]

The Brisbane merger was an investment. You can't really compare giving $1m or however much to keep Fitzroy afloat a while longer with investing up to $12m into a new market.

I don't know that the Melbourne Hawks were a new market.

Brisbane aren't exactly setting the world on fire right now but in the AFL's eyes the investment absolutely paid off. Even where they are now they have a lot bigger profile than they did pre-merger.

In Melbourne. certainly. In terms of Queensland, the move to the Gabba was hugely important.

It's not that far removed from today. Clubs that are struggling are usually not that far from breaking even yet the AFL can invest tens of millions into NSW and Qld because they're chasing rugby league heartland and a big fat TV deal.

Well of course.

 

[Roylion]

I don't really buy into the Fitzroy in the VAFA being the 'same' club as readily as others.

It's great to see the name, jumper etc. back but really it's just an existing club that Fitzroy basically took over.

The Brisbane Bears are the same club as the Brisbane Lions.

The Fitzroy Football Club is the same as the Fitzroy Football Club that held an AFL licence. That was established in the Supreme Court in 2010, much to Michael Bowers' (Brisbane Lions CEO) surprise.

Fitzroy fans are having a bit of an each way bet, though, with Fitzroy 'still playing as they have since 1883' while simultaneously having the Brisbane Lions pseudo-represent them in the AFL.

But so what. What's wrong with having both? The Brisbane Bears gained out of it (by re-branding) themselves to more closely resemble Fitzroy and gained a Melbourne support base, money and priority access to a few Fitzroy players. Fitzroy (whether people like it or not) continue and now play in another league. In essence Fitzroy moving to another competition after 1996 is no different to them moving from the VFA to the VFL in 1897 and is no different to VFL-AFL clubs going into recess during the war years. (Yes, I know there was no World War between 1997-2008.)

 

[Roylion]

Rising through the VAFA divisions may be the best way to progress. Steady build towards a stronger and sustainable future, then if A grade premierships come, look to move up to VFL. (I'm assuming that's the most logical progression, rather than joining say, the northern football league.)

Yes, sustained success at the top level of the VAFA appears to be the way the football club has elected to go. Since 1997, the club has slowly rebuilt from virtually nothing.

Perhaps in 5-10 years that might be considered, if Fitzroy are strong and ambitious enough.

Fitzroy are ambitious. Like always, generating funds is going to be the issue.