Article Fitzroy's Long Slow Death (AFL.com.au)

[Broken]

Another thing that is very noticeable when you look at Fitzroy's last few AFL seasons is how little they played at the MCG (or Waverley, for that matter). Generally only twice a year for both venues.

I haven't done a comparison with other Victorian sides and how the numbers stack up, but I wouldn't be surprised if their number of games at the two biggest venues was significantly less than any other Victorian team- and maybe even some interstate teams.

There's some truth to that. Our fixtures weren't overly generous either.
In 1995, following a home game against Essendon in Round 1, 3 of our next 11 games were home games which included poor drawing clubs like Fremantle and West Coast.

As for games at the big 2 venues :

Fitzroy games at MCG and Waverley in their past 10 years
1996 : MCG (2 games) Waverley (2)
1995 : MCG (2) Waverley (2)
1994 : MCG (2) Waverley (3)
1993 : MCG (2) Waverley (2)
1992 : MCG (4) Waverley (1) * From here Waverley became Hawthorn and St Kildas home ground and was no longer used as a feature game each week.
1991 : MCG (3) Waverley (0)
1990 : MCG (2) Waverley (3)
1989 : MCG (3) Waverley (4)
1988 : MCG (2, includes 1 home game!) Waverley (2)
1987 : MCG (3, includes 1 home game!) Waverley (2)

And a comparison of a stronger side : Carlton, excluding finals.
1996 : MCG (9) Waverley (2)
1995 : MCG (8) Waverley (2)
1994 : MCG (6) Waverley (4)
1993 : MCG (7) Waverley (2)
1992 : MCG (4) Waverley (5)
1991 : MCG (1) Waverley (6)
1990 : MCG (3) Waverley (4)
1989 : MCG (1) Waverley (7)
1988 : MCG (3) Waverley (6)
1987 : MCG (4) Waverley (5)

And a weaker side : Footscray, excluding finals.
1996 : MCG (8) Waverley (2)
1995 : MCG (3) Waverley (3)
1994 : MCG (4) Waverley (3)
1993 : MCG (4) Waverley (0)
1992 : MCG (4) Waverley (2)
1991 : MCG (3) Waverley (3)
1990 : MCG (2) Waverley (2)
1989 : MCG (2) Waverley (1)
1988 : MCG (2) Waverley (4)
1987 : MCG (2) Waverley (4)

 

[Roysforever]

There's some truth to that. Our fixtures weren't overly generous either.
In 1995, following a home game against Essendon in Round 1, 3 of our next 11 games were home games which included big drawing clubs like Fremantle and West Coast.

As for games at the big 2 venues :

Fitzroy games at MCG and Waverley in their past 10 years
1996 : MCG (2 games) Waverley (2)
1995 : MCG (2) Waverley (2)
1994 : MCG (2) Waverley (3)
1993 : MCG (2) Waverley (2)
1992 : MCG (4) Waverley (1) * From here Waverley became Hawthorn and St Kildas home ground and was no longer used as a feature game each week.
1991 : MCG (3) Waverley (0)
1990 : MCG (2) Waverley (3)
1989 : MCG (3) Waverley (4)
1988 : MCG (2, includes 1 home game!) Waverley (2)
1987 : MCG (3, includes 1 home game!) Waverley (2)

And a comparison of a stronger side : Carlton, excluding finals.
1996 : MCG (9) Waverley (2)
1995 : MCG (8) Waverley (2)
1994 : MCG (6) Waverley (4)
1993 : MCG (7) Waverley (2)
1992 : MCG (4) Waverley (5)
1991 : MCG (1) Waverley (6)
1990 : MCG (3) Waverley (4)
1989 : MCG (1) Waverley (7)
1988 : MCG (3) Waverley (6)
1987 : MCG (4) Waverley (5)

And a weaker side : Footscray, excluding finals.
1996 : MCG (8) Waverley (2)
1995 : MCG (3) Waverley (3)
1994 : MCG (4) Waverley (3)
1993 : MCG (4) Waverley (0)
1992 : MCG (4) Waverley (2)
1991 : MCG (3) Waverley (3)
1990 : MCG (2) Waverley (2)
1989 : MCG (2) Waverley (1)
1988 : MCG (2) Waverley (4)
1987 : MCG (2) Waverley (4)

I know coach Robert Shaw was utterly disgusted when our first home games at the Western Oval in 1994 were fixtured against lowly Brisbane and Sydney. Conversely home games against high drawing opponents in Essendon, Carlton and Geelong were scheduled elsewhere.

 

[Roylion]

Twenty years ago yesterday, (28th June 1996), the late Michael Brennan was appointed as Fitzroy's administrator. The current Brisbane Lions CEO, Greg Swann was one of those who was brought in to recover Nauru's debt.

This coming Monday (4th July) is the 20 year anniversary of the announcement of the Brisbane Bears - Fitzroy 'merger'.

 

[Roylion]

I know coach Robert Shaw was utterly disgusted when our first home games at the Western Oval in 1994 were fixtured against lowly Brisbane and Sydney. Conversely home games against high drawing opponents in Essendon, Carlton and Geelong were scheduled elsewhere.

Fitzroy vs. Essendon (10th on ladder) - Princes Park (no ground revenue) - 24,872 (W)
Fitzroy vs. Brisbane Bears (12th) - Western Oval - 8,829 (W)
Fitzroy vs. Sydney Swans (15th) - Western Oval - 10,514 (W)
Fitzroy vs. North Melbourne (3rd) - Western Oval - 11,334 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Carlton (5th) - Waverley - 19,090 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Melbourne (4th) - Western Oval - 8,484 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Collingwood (8th) - Western Oval - 15,394 (L)
Fitzroy vs. West Coast (1st) - Western Oval - 5,334 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Geelong (2nd) - Princes Park (no ground revenue) - 11,388 (L)
Fitzroy vs. Richmond (9th) - Western Oval - 12,122 (L)
Fitzroy vs. St Kilda (13th) - Western Oval - 10,809 (L)

 

[Mobbs]

Shut up AFL, c'arn the Roys etc etc etc ...

Half a game out of the Top Four with seven rounds to go. Fourth best percentage. An outside chance still. Get into the Finals and anything might happen. Only have to reach the GF to be promoted.

Ok so further to the above, VAFA media actually tipped us to win B Grade this season, just a short few weeks ago on the back of our draw with (then-) first-placed Beauey. Personally I think that's possibly a little too optimistic, but I see a 3rd placing as very very gettable and with a little more oomph a PF win when the stars align would be all we need. While flags are the name of the game, you don't have to be #1 to ascend. Runners-up would also get us on the A List.

Both Beauey and St Bedes are performing stronger but match results depend on matchdays. Predicted GF result : St Bedes/Mentone defeat Fitzroy by a comfortable margin. *in A.

 

[Mobbs]

In name it is, but it's a joke of a "competition". There's only 4 senior clubs in it... Port, Frankston, Williamstown and North Ballarat. The rest are AFL reserves sides.

In amateur footy the highest Fitzroy could go is VAFA Premier Division, and sounds like they're well on the way. If they were to play local footy (semi professional) then it'd probably be Northern FL Div 1.

I was gonna say Eastern FL Div 1 myself. Is NFL Div 1 is stronger.

 

[Rickee]

In name it is, but it's a joke of a "competition". There's only 4 senior clubs in it... Port, Frankston, Williamstown and North Ballarat. The rest are AFL reserves sides.

Not quite, Coburg are also currently standing alone, and Sandringham should be as well next year. The rest are either AFL reserves or might as well bes like the travesty that is Box Hill "Hawks".
We are inh this position now because what happened to the Roys was also suffered by almost a dozen old VFA clubs in the mid to late 80s and early 90s. Names like Camberwell, Brunswick, Northcote all gone forever because the VFA wanted to "consolidate" (ie - suck the bum of the VFL/AFL and get organised underneath them like a cheap hooker).

 

[nobbyiscool]

Shut up AFL, c'arn the Roys etc etc etc ...

Ok so further to the above, VAFA media actually tipped us to win B Grade this season, just a short few weeks ago on the back of our draw with (then-) first-placed Beauey. Personally I think that's possibly a little too optimistic, but I see a 3rd placing as very very gettable and with a little more oomph a PF win when the stars align would be all we need. While flags are the name of the game, you don't have to be #1 to ascend. Runners-up would also get us on the A List.

Both Beauey and St Bedes are performing stronger but match results depend on matchdays. Predicted GF result : St Bedes/Mentone defeat Fitzroy by a comfortable margin. ****in A.

This made me think of something I've often wondered about Fitzroy in the Ammos.

Given the significance and the history of the name "Fitzroy", and given the fact that they carry the colours and kind of carry the history of Fitzroy, why don't they dominate in an amateur league? Why don't all amateur level players (at least those north of the river) want to play for them?

As someone in my early 30s, I would've jumped at the chance to play for Fitzroy had I not been hampered by a crook back... and a shocking lack of footy ability. I would've thought people would jump at the chance to play under that name and in that jumper.

Is it just that the "rebirth" in the VAFA came too late, and that people below 30 don't understand or recognise the significance of the Fitzroy name and colours?

 

[yodellinhank]

This made me think of something I've often wondered about Fitzroy in the Ammos.

Given the significance and the history of the name "Fitzroy", and given the fact that they carry the colours and kind of carry the history of Fitzroy, why don't they dominate in an amateur league? Why don't all amateur level players (at least those north of the river) want to play for them?

As someone in my early 30s, I would've jumped at the chance to play for Fitzroy had I not been hampered by a crook back... and a shocking lack of footy ability. I would've thought people would jump at the chance to play under that name and in that jumper.

Is it just that the "rebirth" in the VAFA came too late, and that people below 30 don't understand or recognise the significance of the Fitzroy name and colours?

To a lesser extent I've thought the same of Prahran.

 

[pazza]

This made me think of something I've often wondered about Fitzroy in the Ammos.

Given the significance and the history of the name "Fitzroy", and given the fact that they carry the colours and kind of carry the history of Fitzroy, why don't they dominate in an amateur league? Why don't all amateur level players (at least those north of the river) want to play for them?

As someone in my early 30s, I would've jumped at the chance to play for Fitzroy had I not been hampered by a crook back... and a shocking lack of footy ability. I would've thought people would jump at the chance to play under that name and in that jumper.

Is it just that the "rebirth" in the VAFA came too late, and that people below 30 don't understand or recognise the significance of the Fitzroy name and colours?

Money.

Fitzroy competes sort of directly with the Northern FL, with clubs like Northcote Park (Northcote ex-VFA) and the other Fitzroy team, Fitzroy Stars (who play out of Sir Douglas Nicholls Reserve in Thornbury). That said they do recruit quite well.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This made me think of something I've often wondered about Fitzroy in the Ammos.

Given the significance and the history of the name "Fitzroy", and given the fact that they carry the colours and kind of carry the history of Fitzroy, why don't they dominate in an amateur league? Why don't all amateur level players (at least those north of the river) want to play for them?

As someone in my early 30s, I would've jumped at the chance to play for Fitzroy had I not been hampered by a crook back... and a shocking lack of footy ability. I would've thought people would jump at the chance to play under that name and in that jumper.

Is it just that the "rebirth" in the VAFA came too late, and that people below 30 don't understand or recognise the significance of the Fitzroy name and colours?

For a relatively young club, they're rising very quickly.

No reason they can't reach Premier grade in the coming years.

 

[lion around]

Its because of that very reason, Its ( amateur ) being played by young uni/working kids that do it for the love of either the jumper-suburb or mates-whatever like most other suburban clubs. They are not paid fulltime professional athletes with managers and mega bucks.

 

[BustedWing]

In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Fitzroy Reds president Craig Little, the two clubs decided to join together. The Fitzroy Reds with the Reds' consent, gave up their place in the VAFA and officially ceased to exist, except as incorporated within the Fitzroy Football Club. Fitzroy Football Club took the Reds' place in the VAFA and incorporated the Fitzroy Reds assets into their own club. Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in 1996 remained as chairman. Fitzroy returned to the playing field in time for the 2009 season, after a twelve year playing recess. Much like the playing recess, some VFL clubs took in the war years.

Apologies if this is answered elsewhere, but a I understand it, new clubs into the VAFA have to start their lives in the ammos in the bottom division. Did this happen with the above arrangement? If not, why not? As written above it looks like FFC took the place of Fitzroy Reds, as opposed to Reds ceasing to exist, and FFC starting their new lives in the VAFA (in D4 or whatever was bottom at the time).

How did that all come about?

 

[Mobbs]

Apologies if this is answered elsewhere, but a I understand it, new clubs into the VAFA have to start their lives in the ammos in the bottom division. Did this happen with the above arrangement? If not, why not? As written above it looks like FFC took the place of Fitzroy Reds, as opposed to Reds ceasing to exist, and FFC starting their new lives in the VAFA (in D4 or whatever was bottom at the time).

How did that all come about?

The club was in D1 Grade and did not restart in D4 (promoted to C Grade at end of that season). This was most likely due to the player list being the same for Fitzroy FC (incorp. Fitzroy Reds) as it was for Fitzroy Reds FC. From memory, when Parkdale and Mentone Amateurs merged, the same applied. Way back in the early 90s, when St Bedes merged with Mentone Notamateurs, again they continued on in St Bedes current division.

Not fully up with it myself, don't know for sure. But it seems that new clubs forming or joining from another competition in their entirety might normally start in D4 as you suggest - but if a club already has with a presence in the VAFA, undergoing merger, rebranding, etc ... they get to hold on to that possie.

Roylion how did I do?

 

[BustedWing]

The club was in D1 Grade and did not restart in D4 (promoted to C Grade at end of that season). This was most likely due to the player list being the same for Fitzroy FC (incorp. Fitzroy Reds) as it was for Fitzroy Reds FC. From memory, when Parkdale and Mentone Amateurs merged, the same applied. Way back in the early 90s, when St Bedes merged with Mentone Notamateurs, again they continued on in St Bedes current division.

Not fully up with it myself, don't know for sure. But it seems that new clubs forming or joining from another competition in their entirety might normally start in D4 as you suggest - but if a club already has with a presence in the VAFA, undergoing merger, rebranding, etc ... they get to hold on to that possie.

Roylion how did I do?

Makes sense to me.

 

[Roylion]

The club was in D1 Grade and did not restart in D4 (promoted to C Grade at end of that season). This was most likely due to the player list being the same for Fitzroy FC (incorp. Fitzroy Reds) as it was for Fitzroy Reds FC. From memory, when Parkdale and Mentone Amateurs merged, the same applied. Way back in the early 90s, when St Bedes merged with Mentone Notamateurs, again they continued on in St Bedes current division.

Not fully up with it myself, don't know for sure. But it seems that new clubs forming or joining from another competition in their entirety might normally start in D4 as you suggest - but if a club already has with a presence in the VAFA, undergoing merger, rebranding, etc ... they get to hold on to that possie.

Roylion how did I do?

There was certainly a special dispensation from the VAFA heirarchy to allow Fitzroy to take the place of the Reds at the time. I remember talking to Dyson Hore-Lacy about it at the time. He was at pains to remind me that the Fitzroy Football Club was not the same as the Fitzroy Reds and had replaced them in the VAFA. But at the same time the Reds (actually the University Reds), while they had officially ceased to exist, were now part of the wider Fitzroy Football Club umbrella. The VAFA were very pleased to have the actual Fitzroy Football Club as part of their competition, especially given their links with the Brisbane Lions and the wider AFL.

 

[Mobbs]

Yeah it does cross my mind that Fitzroy Reds, in the eyes of a fundamentalist Redders purist, actually lost their club. When it comes to footy, I respect fundamentalism, so I feel for them. However, so much of the two entities are/were running almost at a parallel already, that the upheaval could definitely be argued as slight, compared to, say, the translation of a commitment from Fitzroy to Brisbane. Personal psychological tribality has a lot to say about which scenario is the easiest on the soulstrings.