Religion Folau

[HairyO]

Wouldn't be surprised if their CEO made a phone call shortly after the Folau tweet.

Early on all the talk was that he was dictating RA's response and that RA didnt want to go down the path they were taken down.

RA sacked him before even checking whether they had a legal right to it. You'd assume the response they would want is to check that first.

Then probably update his contract to explicitly restrict what he says publicly. Something they should have done last year when he was given his warning.

Absolute clowns running the show. Make Gil look like an almost average CEO.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Early on all the talk was that he was dictating RA's response and that RA didnt want to go down the path they were taken down.

ironic then rugby oz settled on potential lose of sponsorship dollars , apparently

 

[Mofra]

Then probably update his contract to explicitly restrict what he says publicly. Something they should have done last year when he was given his warning.

Absolute clowns running the show. Make Gil look like an almost average CEO.

Amatuer hour. How could you have people in the public eye with no conduct clauses included? PR 101

 

[HairyO]

Amatuer hour. How could you have people in the public eye with no conduct clauses included? PR 101

I think there was a conduct clause. Every footballer and probably across all other team sports would have them. But it was not specific. And given he has other rights the contract would need to be specific in him accepting money as a part of trading off those other rights.

Even if there are rights which can not be traded away (negligence is always one in contract law, no idea about his religious rights - which would have been an interesting case to follow) it would have given them a firm ground to make their case.

Instead they had competing rights and no specific agreement from him to accept their stance as a part of his employment. After he had already caused them trouble only about 6 months before.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

And I agree with you to a point also.

But opinions aren’t necessarily facts are they.

And I’m sick of the way interest groups/sections of society/journalists keep telling me what my opinion should be.

I can’t watch “ the news “ anymore. It’s very rarely presentation of facts these days.

Totally. My point (which I clumsily was trying to make) was opinion based on fact (logic, evidence, etc) should count for more than those that don't.

 

[yodellinhank]

Donors are being refunded because costs were covered by RA

In which case full costs weren't covered as it is only a pro rata refund.

 

[Borisdog]

Totally. My point (which I clumsily was trying to make) was opinion based on fact (logic, evidence, etc) should count for more than those that don't.

And I largely agree with you again

BUT

Folau's opinion about various habits that I have and his opinion of what's going to happen to me didn't make one single jot of difference to me. But the offence polices' opinion didn't either. My opinion of either sides opinion will vary considerably to that of many others, and definitely to that of either side in this whole shambolic display of bloody-minded idiocy. From both sides.

 

[Ron The Bear]

They weren't running an anti-religious crusade

Suspect they (read: Joyce) wanted to make an example of Folau and by extension, eliminate or at least discourage the expression of that particular belief. I think their perspective was narrow, and that Folau drew support for a variety of reasons. They got in too deep and realised they were going under.

 

[Father Jack]

Suspect they (read: Joyce) wanted to make an example of Folau and by extension, eliminate or at least discourage the expression of that particular belief. I think their perspective was narrow, and that Folau drew support for a variety of reasons. They got in too deep and realised they were going under.

Going under? Is public sentiment reverting back to homophobia?

 

[raskolnikov]

Religious kooks should be able to say what they like. But then they should not expect to get public funding for their schools or other institutions, or get tax-free status as charitable institutions.

 

[Sainteric]

But who will scream blue murder if their right to discriminate is removed.

But who will scream blue murder if their right to discriminate is removed.

Some in the LGBTQ community obviously fighting discrimination with more discrimination.

I don't want a gay, or first nations or women to loose their job for personal views either.

 

[raskolnikov]

Some in the LGBTQ community obviously fighting discrimination with more discrimination.

I don't want a gay, or first nations or women to loose their job for personal views either.

Well what are you doing on here? You have a lot of religious organisations you need to visit.

 

[Northalives]

Did you cop the huge grin on Folau's face? He is rapt he got the doe! That's all that is important to him, the doe. It fulfils the "Prosperity Gospels" assertion that getting money, having lots of material wealth is a blessing from God.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Going under? Is public sentiment reverting back to homophobia?

Legally speaking.

 

[Northalives]

Some media outlets are calling this a win for Freedom Of Speech.

Israel is at home singing '8 million bottles hanging on the wall...'

It is absurd that these media outlets are calling this a win for Freedom of Speech. It was an out of court settlement, there was no legal precedence set!

It won't be long before we hear the, "we fought in a war to preserve freedom of speech" bull shit. Well no, we didn't fight in a war to preserve freedom of speech, we fought in a war to stop some bloke called Hitler and his supremacist mates from asserting what they believed was their God given right to freely persecute those whom the deemed inferior. Rings a bell, doesn't it? If we had gone to war to fight for freedom of speech, we would have fought on the side of the Third Reich.

Freedom of speech is not the freedom to persecute.

 

[Northalives]

Source close to the legal team quoted in the SMH says Folau is very $ happy $

Who says money can't buy you love? God says having money is a blessing from him and if you have plenty, it's a sure sign that you will be going to heaven.

 

[EasternTiger]

It is absurd that these media outlets are calling this a win for Freedom of Speech. It was an out of court settlement, there was no legal precedence set!

It won't be long before we hear the, "we fought in a war to preserve freedom of speech" bull shit. Well no, we didn't fight in a war to preserve freedom of speech, we fought in a war to stop some bloke called Hitler and his supremacist mates from asserting what they believed was their God given right to freely persecute those whom the deemed inferior. Rings a bell, doesn't it? If we had gone to war to fight for freedom of speech, we would have fought on the side of the Third Reich.

Freedom of speech is not the freedom to persecute.

You can basically make a galah of yourself on social media, and not get fired from your day job. This is the way it should be.

This has smashed the cancel culture into a thousand pieces, and scattered it to the winds.

A victory for all people.

 

[Northalives]

So pleasing to see Israel finally exonerated, albeit belatedly, not only for the Folou family, but for the sport of Rugby and for religious freedom nationwide. It's a shame that it took so long for common sense to prevail though.

What the hell are you on about? Exonerated? Great for religious freedom nationwide? How can you deduce all of this from and out of court settlement? To be exonerated and to win a great victory for "religious freedom nationwide", it had to be tested in a court of law. All that's happened is that the Rugby mob said to Folau was "let's sort this out without going to court, let's negotiate a pay out - you apologise, we'll apologise and we can forget about the whole thing.". Well good 'ol Israel jumped at the opportunity to get the cash, to hell with taking this to court and trying to win a great victory for religious freedom and to be vindicated for his stance that he can say whatever he likes about whom ever he likes, f**k that, just give me the doe!!!!

 

[HairyO]

What the hell are you on about? Exonerated? Great for religious freedom nationwide? How can you deduce all of this from and out of court settlement? To be exonerated and to win a great victory for "religious freedom nationwide", it had to be tested in a court of law.

So he didnt win? He has no right to speak his mind on religion issues?

Its interesting how the goal posts shift.

 

[Ron The Bear]

To be exonerated and to win a great victory for "religious freedom nationwide", it had to be tested in a court of law.

Fair enough, but who's going to be next to try it on after this outcome (and having witnessed the considerable public support for Folau)?

 

[Scotland]

So he didnt win? He has no right to speak his mind on religion issues?

Its interesting how the goal posts shift.

Folau is no longer contracted by RA so can say whatever he likes in whatever forum and it's none of RA's concern.

As an employee of RA there is an expectation that you don't jeopardise RA from a sponsorship or PR perspective. When the principal sponsor of your employer has a gay CEO and you post homophobic content to your public social media platform it's pretty obvious what is going to happen.

Whatever Folau got (which is too much if it's above $0) is a function of RA's contracts being shit which comes as no surprise as RA are a joke.

 

[deanc]

We all know who his vitriol was aimed at and he followed that up with his comments regarding the bushfires.

Look, my right to fornicate and not go to hell should be equally represented!

Just because the media determined fornicators or adulterers don't
create debate and outrage for their clicks/online views/newspaper sales is not good enough.

There is just no equality in being vilified anymore, it's a disgrace!

BTW, were Folau's comments on bush fires any more fanciful than those claiming climate change is solely responsible?

 

[Scotland]

BTW, were Folau's comments on bush fires any more fanciful than those claiming climate change is solely responsible?

Well climate change is real whatever your opinion on the causes and pace. If you actually deny that the climate changes full stop then you should probably visit a museum or watch Ice Age. Climatic conditions influence fires. Climatic change as the sole cause? No, absolutely not. But if it's hotter and drier and fires occur when it's hot and dry...

Now I can't prove that God didn't start the NSW fires (some were started by arsonists, fallen power lines etc. so I'll just assume he is responsible for those by playing the "mysterious ways" trump card) but if we are playing the judgement game then well known SSM supporter and all around good guy Pope Benedict visited Australia in 2008 and then Black Saturday happened in February 2009 so maybe old God needs to sort his shit out.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

And I largely agree with you again

BUT

Folau's opinion about various habits that I have and his opinion of what's going to happen to me didn't make one single jot of difference to me. But the offence polices' opinion didn't either. My opinion of either sides opinion will vary considerably to that of many others, and definitely to that of either side in this whole shambolic display of bloody-minded idiocy. From both sides.

I think we're in furious agreement.

 

[HairyO]

Folau is no longer contracted by RA so can say whatever he likes in whatever forum and it's none of RA's concern.

As an employee of RA there is an expectation that you don't jeopardise RA from a sponsorship or PR perspective. When the principal sponsor of your employer has a gay CEO and you post homophobic content to your public social media platform it's pretty obvious what is going to happen.

Whatever Folau got (which is too much if it's above $0) is a function of RA's contracts being shit which comes as no surprise as RA are a joke.

Correct. And another player could do exactly what Folau did, with again the same events taking place.

Unless they have actually revisited their contracts. And I bet they havent. Because if they did it would have been an admission that the contracts were poorly written.

Though I would think over the next few weeks there will be some scrambling.