Formula For Our Flag

[TigerPower]

What i'm about to say are the necessary changes that need to be made but wont happen because Wallace wants to save his arse. Now we arent in too much of a rut IF we delist, and trade the required players in the LAST draft which is BARELY affected by the Gold Coast, and simultaneously tank at the same time. We cant just keep heaps of 30 year olds on even though they are good players sometimes, we MUST remove them. This will grant us our way to a flag.

Senior list Changes

Joel Bowden delist
Nathan Brown delist
Andrew Collins
Daniel Connors
Trent Cotchin
Mark Coughlan
Ben Cousins
Brett Deledio
Shane Edwards
Nathan Foley
Angus Graham
Tom Hislop
Cleve Hughes
Daniel Jackson
Kane Johnson delist
Jake King delist
Luke McGuane
Jordan McMahon delist
Kelvin Moore TRADE (Rance and Post will fill the void, panics under pressure AT times and we can get a good essential young draft pick. He is 25 now and will be TOO old before we challenge)
Mitch Morton
Chris Newman
Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls delist (unless he proves himself)
Adam Pattison
Kayne Pettifer delist
Graham Polak unless he plays seniors delist (list clogger) yes i am human but this club aint a ****ing charity
Dean Polo
Jayden Post
Dean Putt
Andrew Raines
Alex Rance
Matthew Richardson retire mate you wont see finals
Jack Riewoldt
Jay Schulz
Troy Simmonds Delist, Browne, Graham can have their development fast tracked and Patto can become the stop gap while Vickers develops.
Richard Tambling
Adam Thomson
Will Thursfield
Shane Tuck Trade at 27 he will be too old for us, he has some good trade value and will get a good ESSENTIAL pick.
Tyrone Vickery
Matt White
Andrew Browne
Alroy Gilligan
David Gourdis
Robin Nahas
Jarrod Silvester de-list

Action Taken This Year:
Now with that in mind leave Wallace until the end of the year, and OVERRULE team changes and play youth dropping our 30 year old players so we see where we are at and allow us to tank and get some priority picks.

Next Year:
Next year we need to get Hardwick or Hird or Leigh Matthews. Nobody else, we need a hardarse for reasons we already know. We may finish with less than 4 wins but hey we will still get picks 4 and 6.

The Problem:
Wallace will be trying to save his arse and will play the most experienced side, hence leaving us to finish 9th approx with a late year charge just to **** us over. We will have shit all picks and wont make the necessary list changes.

 

[kaipwn]

probably to buy another clubs membership. lol at tigers finals 09 preseason predictions. ahahahaha. but seriously get rid of wallace and make richo younger. its such a shame he wasted his years at your club.

 

[TigerPower]

Keep to the topic please, this is a time of crisis and constructive collaboration is needed to discuss fundamentals such as our list and new coach. I want feedback on my post, I personally believe it will adress our issues.

 

[coke_zero]

probably to buy another clubs membership. lol at tigers finals 09 preseason predictions. ahahahaha. but seriously get rid of wallace and make richo younger. its such a shame he wasted his years at your club.

at you club he would have to actully try and kick a point or on the full.

 

[JuDDysthacaptain]

I see you have left Ben Cousins on your list but taken Richo out, will Cousins really be around tigerland to see another flag?

 

[jiphoc]

You need some leadership in your list as it developes and Cousins will hopefully bring that experience and learership which would be a very young list. He would play the role Crawford and Ben Dickson played during Hawk's redevelopment.

 

[Jisha]

I see you have left Ben Cousins on your list but taken Richo out, will Cousins really be around tigerland to see another flag?

I don't think the OP has any idea what is going on.

 

[HFF]

Bit tough on Bowden, Brown and Johnson.

Surely, they will be allowed to decide their own careers and "retire" rather than be delisted.

If Richo is forced into retirement, it will be a very sad day not only at Richmond but for football in general.

Just because he is the oldest player the club, he is still tbe BEST player at the club and age has not slowed him down. Many others will go before Richo, make no mistake about that.

Also, when will this formula deliver a flag?

With a new coach, it does not take one-year to rebuild a team.

 

[BILC]

TigerPower since ive joined bigfooty you are probably the worst poster ive seen on the richmond board.

 

[TigerPower]

I don't think the OP has any idea what is going on.

Whys that

 

[TigerPower]

TigerPower since ive joined bigfooty you are probably the worst poster ive seen on the richmond board.

How is my solution wrong?

 

[coke_zero]

TigerPower since ive joined bigfooty you are probably the worst poster ive seen on the richmond board.

good post.

 

[getthefooty]

Anyone that thinks we should trade Kelvin Moore now has absolutely no idea.

Likewise if you think Tuck has any currency. We'd get a 2nd, probably 3rd round pick at best.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Senior list Changes

Joel Bowden retire
Nathan Brown retire
Andrew Collins
Daniel Connors
Trent Cotchin
Mark Coughlan keep only if he makes it back playing good AFL footy
Ben Cousins assess at year's end
Brett Deledio
Shane Edwards
Nathan Foley see Tuck
Angus Graham
Tom Hislop
Cleve Hughes trade if we could get anything for him
Daniel Jackson
Kane Johnson retire
Jake King delist
Luke McGuane
Jordan McMahon has a contract for another year; package him with Raines/Schulz/Hughes in a trade to GC after that.
Kelvin Moore TRADE (Rance and Post will fill the void, panics under pressure AT times and we can get a good essential young draft pick. He is 25 now and will be TOO old before we challenge). Let's see what pick is on the table, but I'd keep him.
Mitch Morton
Chris Newman
Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls delist (unless he proves himself)
Adam Pattison
Kayne Pettifer delist (unless he plays well enough to suggest he might attract a 3rd rnd GC pick next year)
Graham Polak unless he plays seniors delist (list clogger) yes i am human but this club aint a ****ing charity
Dean Polo
Jayden Post
Dean Putt
Andrew Raines see McMahon
Alex Rance
Matthew Richardson retire mate you wont see finals. One more year.
Jack Riewoldt
Jay Schulz
Troy Simmonds retire. Browne, Graham can have their development fast tracked and Patto can become the stop gap while Vickers develops.
Richard Tambling
Adam Thomson
Will Thursfield see Moore
Shane Tuck Trade at 27 he will be too old for us, he has some good trade value and will get a good ESSENTIAL pick. Maybe next year to GC, for a top 10 pick.
Tyrone Vickery
Matt White
Andrew Browne
Alroy Gilligan
David Gourdis
Robin Nahas
Jarrod Silvester de-list. You said senior list. He's a rookie, although why is beyond me.

Action Taken This Year:
Now with that in mind leave Wallace until the end of the year, and OVERRULE team changes and play youth dropping our 30 year old players so we see where we are at and allow us to tank and get some priority picks.

Next Year:
Next year we need to get Hardwick or Hird or Leigh Matthews. Nobody else, we need a hardarse for reasons we already know. We may finish with less than 4 wins but hey we will still get picks 4 and 6.

The Problem:
Wallace will be trying to save his arse and will play the most experienced side, hence leaving us to finish 9th approx with a late year charge just to **** us over. We will have shit all picks and wont make the necessary list changes.

Man you can't get rid of 12 players in one year. If we do it right we're in for five years of pain, followed by a true flowering. No more false dawns or premature claims.
Trading players for picks will be more lucrative next year, when there's a full year of kids to choose from (as opposed to eight months this year) and the GC will have a few picks to throw around.
Out at the end of this year: Johnson, Bowden, Brown, Simmonds, Pettifer, probably Polak. In (at a guess, if we tank): draft picks 3, 18, 19, 35, 51
Gone after 2010: Richo, Cousins, McMahon, Raines, Hughes, King (yes, keep him for another year to make the rest of them work as hard as him. Just never play him, except in games we have to lose. Unless Polak and Cogs both come good, then he can go). In (at a guess, if we tank, and we snare a GC pick and maybe another somewhere): draft picks 4, 6, 15, 26, 30, 42.
With that loss of experience we'll probably finish right down near the bottom again in 2011, perhaps giving us another two top-10 picks and a third inside the top 20.
That's the painful part over, meaning three years from now we will have moved on all our dead wood and added five top-10 picks, another four top-20s and whatever solid mid-range picks and late gems we can find.
If they survive, our oldest players will be the trio of Newman, Tuck and Cogs at 30, then to Jackson at 26, Deledio et al at 25 and Cotchin 22. We will know where we are with Vickery, Putt, Gourdis, Post etc. Either we will have an excellent young core or they won't have proved up to it and we'll have more juicy draft picks.
Either way, the holes in our list mean that we need to try to get it to peak in five years time, when Deledio is turning 27 - and sustain that peak to ensure a long stay once we reach the top. Cotchin, Rance, Post, Vickery will be 24, Riewoldt and Connors 25. These will be our best players reaching their peaks. We have to surround them with as much quality as possible, which means taking our turn at the bottom for more than one year. Whoever's coach needs to be prepared to sacrifice the next three years to a fair dinkum rebuild. No more short cuts.

 

[TigerPower]

good post.

****wit

 

[TigerPower]

Man you can't get rid of 12 players in one year. If we do it right we're in for five years of pain, followed by a true flowering. No more false dawns or premature claims.
Trading players for picks will be more lucrative next year, when there's a full year of kids to choose from (as opposed to eight months this year) and the GC will have a few picks to throw around.
Out at the end of this year: Johnson, Bowden, Brown, Simmonds, Pettifer, probably Polak. In (at a guess, if we tank): draft picks 3, 18, 19, 35, 51
Gone after 2010: Richo, Cousins, McMahon, Raines, Hughes, King (yes, keep him for another year to make the rest of them work as hard as him. Just never play him, except in games we have to lose. Unless Polak and Cogs both come good, then he can go). In (at a guess, if we tank, and we snare a GC pick and maybe another somewhere): draft picks 4, 6, 15, 26, 30, 42.
With that loss of experience we'll probably finish right down near the bottom again in 2011, perhaps giving us another two top-10 picks and a third inside the top 20.
That's the painful part over, meaning three years from now we will have moved on all our dead wood and added five top-10 picks, another four top-20s and whatever solid mid-range picks and late gems we can find.
If they survive, our oldest players will be the trio of Newman, Tuck and Cogs at 30, then to Jackson at 26, Deledio et al at 25 and Cotchin 22. We will know where we are with Vickery, Putt, Gourdis, Post etc. Either we will have an excellent young core or they won't have proved up to it and we'll have more juicy draft picks.
Either way, the holes in our list mean that we need to try to get it to peak in five years time, when Deledio is turning 27 - and sustain that peak to ensure a long stay once we reach the top. Cotchin, Rance, Post, Vickery will be 24, Riewoldt and Connors 25. These will be our best players reaching their peaks. We have to surround them with as much quality as possible, which means taking our turn at the bottom for more than one year. Whoever's coach needs to be prepared to sacrifice the next three years to a fair dinkum rebuild. No more short cuts.

The first person to give a post I was looking for, I 100% agree with you mate. It's just a worry having Deledio at 27 when we peak, it would be best to trade him at 27 I reckon.

 

[kainokaino]

richoatthedisco it amazes me why you would want to get rid of Foley?

He disposes the ball poorly at times but he is the only one that gives our team any run at the moment. He break the lines and keeps running after he has given off a handball or a kick, hes disposal lets him down at times but he makes blokes like deledio and tambling look like downhill skiers.

I could almost guarantee you that if our players ran and did the 1%ers like he did on the weekend that we would of beat Melbourne and in saying that it was a bad game on Foleys behalf but yet he still did the team things and ran hard all day and thats the big difference between him and 90% of our list.

 

[kainokaino]

The first person to give a post I was looking for, I 100% agree with you mate. It's just a worry having Deledio at 27 when we peak, it would be best to trade him at 27 I reckon.

Yeah it was such a great post wasn't it, talking about tanking for the next 2 years 4 games into this season. This board has officially lost the plot

 

[TigerPower]

Yeah it was such a great post wasn't it, talking about tanking for the next 2 years 4 games into this season. This board has officially lost the plot

Imagine the 197cm athletic KP monster in Butcher roaming the forward half. We must throw in the season to get that.

 

[kainokaino]

Go support Carlton ^

 

[richoatthedisco]

The first person to give a post I was looking for, I 100% agree with you mate. It's just a worry having Deledio at 27 when we peak, it would be best to trade him at 27 I reckon.

He will be our most experienced player then, with three years of his prime to come. No way.

richoatthedisco it amazes me why you would want to get rid of Foley?

I don't. But if he got us a top 3 pick, I'd look at it if the next Franklin was available.

Yeah it was such a great post wasn't it, talking about tanking for the next 2 years 4 games into this season. This board has officially lost the plot

It's a se' fe' the Scottish would say (sad fact).

Imagine the 197cm athletic KP monster in Butcher roaming the forward half. We must throw in the season to get that.

It's the system.

Go support Carlton ^

I'm not saying I like it, but that's the way it works.

 

[kainokaino]

I don't. But if he got us a top 3 pick, I'd look at it if the next Franklin was available.

Or if the next Richard Tambling is available?

Jay Schulz ?
Kayne Pettifer ?
Jarrod Oakley-Nicholls ?
Brett Deledio ? (To a lesser extent but lets be honest at the moment you cant rate lids as a better player then Foley)

 

[Rosstickle]

Whoever's coach needs to be prepared to sacrifice the next three years to a fair dinkum rebuild. No more short cuts.

Wasn't that the idea last time?

 

[Azzleberry]

Man you can't get rid of 12 players in one year. If we do it right we're in for five years of pain, followed by a true flowering. No more false dawns or premature claims.
Trading players for picks will be more lucrative next year, when there's a full year of kids to choose from (as opposed to eight months this year) and the GC will have a few picks to throw around.
Out at the end of this year: Johnson, Bowden, Brown, Simmonds, Pettifer, probably Polak. In (at a guess, if we tank): draft picks 3, 18, 19, 35, 51
Gone after 2010: Richo, Cousins, McMahon, Raines, Hughes, King (yes, keep him for another year to make the rest of them work as hard as him. Just never play him, except in games we have to lose. Unless Polak and Cogs both come good, then he can go). In (at a guess, if we tank, and we snare a GC pick and maybe another somewhere): draft picks 4, 6, 15, 26, 30, 42.
With that loss of experience we'll probably finish right down near the bottom again in 2011, perhaps giving us another two top-10 picks and a third inside the top 20.
That's the painful part over, meaning three years from now we will have moved on all our dead wood and added five top-10 picks, another four top-20s and whatever solid mid-range picks and late gems we can find.
If they survive, our oldest players will be the trio of Newman, Tuck and Cogs at 30, then to Jackson at 26, Deledio et al at 25 and Cotchin 22. We will know where we are with Vickery, Putt, Gourdis, Post etc. Either we will have an excellent young core or they won't have proved up to it and we'll have more juicy draft picks.
Either way, the holes in our list mean that we need to try to get it to peak in five years time, when Deledio is turning 27 - and sustain that peak to ensure a long stay once we reach the top. Cotchin, Rance, Post, Vickery will be 24, Riewoldt and Connors 25. These will be our best players reaching their peaks. We have to surround them with as much quality as possible, which means taking our turn at the bottom for more than one year. Whoever's coach needs to be prepared to sacrifice the next three years to a fair dinkum rebuild. No more short cuts.

Sounds good in theory but there are no guarantees here. We have already seen that even in we do have 4 picks in the top 20 only 1 may be a star..

 

[coryne]

Man you can't get rid of 12 players in one year. If we do it right we're in for five years of pain, followed by a true flowering. No more false dawns or premature claims.
Trading players for picks will be more lucrative next year, when there's a full year of kids to choose from (as opposed to eight months this year) and the GC will have a few picks to throw around.
Out at the end of this year: Johnson, Bowden, Brown, Simmonds, Pettifer, probably Polak. In (at a guess, if we tank): draft picks 3, 18, 19, 35, 51
Gone after 2010: Richo, Cousins, McMahon, Raines, Hughes, King (yes, keep him for another year to make the rest of them work as hard as him. Just never play him, except in games we have to lose. Unless Polak and Cogs both come good, then he can go). In (at a guess, if we tank, and we snare a GC pick and maybe another somewhere): draft picks 4, 6, 15, 26, 30, 42.
With that loss of experience we'll probably finish right down near the bottom again in 2011, perhaps giving us another two top-10 picks and a third inside the top 20.
That's the painful part over, meaning three years from now we will have moved on all our dead wood and added five top-10 picks, another four top-20s and whatever solid mid-range picks and late gems we can find.
If they survive, our oldest players will be the trio of Newman, Tuck and Cogs at 30, then to Jackson at 26, Deledio et al at 25 and Cotchin 22. We will know where we are with Vickery, Putt, Gourdis, Post etc. Either we will have an excellent young core or they won't have proved up to it and we'll have more juicy draft picks.
Either way, the holes in our list mean that we need to try to get it to peak in five years time, when Deledio is turning 27 - and sustain that peak to ensure a long stay once we reach the top. Cotchin, Rance, Post, Vickery will be 24, Riewoldt and Connors 25. These will be our best players reaching their peaks. We have to surround them with as much quality as possible, which means taking our turn at the bottom for more than one year. Whoever's coach needs to be prepared to sacrifice the next three years to a fair dinkum rebuild. No more short cuts.

The problem is you are underestimating how poor the other teams will be over the next couple of years, mainly Freo and Melbourne. 3 teams bottoming out at once will clog up the "fight" for priority picks this year, and next. I have Melbourne down for the #1 priority pick, thus Butcher will be gone. Melbourne will prob be on the rise next year, but Freo will still be crap and will prob net a priority pick for next year (ala #4) so it is HIGHLY unlikely that you could get #4 and $6 in the GC draft.