Roast Forward Structure

[gbatman]

Our forward structure and our forwards are at times stupid. There are no rules or structures regarding our forward line. We have no idea how to open it up, where to lead, where to position, how to draw opponents, how to create space, how to kick to tall stationary players, dealing with lose or zoned players and functioning as a team to help other players get the ball etc. We also only know how to play one type of football. There are different ways to play when the forward line is crowded and we don't know how to recognise this and adjust to the situation and play the type of foot that combats this.

1. Midfielders, stay the f*** out of the forward 50. Ever wonder why in so many games our opposition look to have loads of space in their forward 50 and why ours appears to be flooded at the same time? It's because our Midfielders float forward instead of hanging back and trying to be an option to go sideways to between 50 and center. This is why when we lose we lose big. The opposition break from our forward line with ease, they have midfield space and forward space and can go forward quickly giving our defence no chance. If our mids hang back when their opponents go forward then we will have options to go sideways and work the ball around to find an opening for a short kick forward. We also are less vulnerable when the opposition get it in our forward line as we will have numbers behind the ball and the opposition players can be easily picked up when they run forward by Carlton players who are hanging back. If our mids hang back they will be doing less running and not run out of steam as quickly and will be able to make it back into defence. This is perhaps why when we lose we run out of legs in the last quarter because of the unnecessary running when we get sucked in to going too far forward. Holding numbers back also slows the opposition down and we are more likely to turn it over at half forward. The benefit of going forward against a flooding opposition and turning it over when we have numbers behind the ball is that the loose opposition players clear out and run forward when they get it. A quick turn over at half forward means an open forward line to kick into. If we don't have plenty of numbers hanging back outside the forward line we have no hope of turning it over, no hope of slowing the midfield down and no hope of getting numbers back to help the defence.

Good sides will go sideways at half forward when it's flooded to find space, open up the fat side, open up more of the forward 50 and get closer to make it a short kick forward. Collingwood do this well. Because if you move it along the boundary you must be prepared to deal with a zone and that means going short and kicking sideways across half forward and using the short kick forward because the forward 50 will be crowded if you move it along the boundary. You need to use the short kick to find a leading target in a flood. Long kicking into a crowded forward line wont work because too many players can get to a long kick.

Our midfielders need to learn not to go into our forward line when their opponents do, it plays into the opposition's hands too well because it means no sideways options and cuts out the option of holding possession of the ball and bringing it inside and closer to the forward line before delivering it to our forwards. It also means further to run to get back and means an open midfield for the opposition.

It really hurts us defensively. Midfielders like to draw their opponents deep into the forward line so they are out of the way when the ball is turned over. This opens the midfield right up and even half decent teams can break, run off half back into the vacant midfield and get it forward very quickly giving Carlton defenders no chance. It also stops our midfielders from running back into the opposition forward line and blocking the oppositions forwards space. Our midfield/half forwards must be thinking of defending and getting back even when we have the ball.

This is why our midfield and even our forward flankers need to be better at holding back, setting up for a turn over and using short/sideways kicks to get it to our forwards. If our mids do get sucked in to going forward too far then they can't get back to help out the defence and we'll get massive scores kicked against us like we do when teams play this style against us.

2. Positioning and leading is crap. So often I see small forwards standing between 15 and 45 meters from goal in the space in central positions when we are looking to go forward. Are we trying to help the opposition sides zone and clog things up? Our players need a system where they lead to certain areas, learn to be dangerous so they get followed and open the space up for the players to lead into. Our leading is terrible but so is our ability to create space. Barry Hall did it simple, lead hard into the most central space. Sometimes our players don't even lead, led backwards or chose the wrong space (wide when the corridor was open). We were scared of one or two zoning players against the Bulldogs. Our forwards and midfield need to know they can lead at a lose opposition player. Our midfielders need to know how to kick the ball (give it a bit more air) when a forward is leading near a lose man so that they can either run past him or and crash into him.

3. Getting sucked in to close to stoppages. It was happening all over the ground. Our outside players were getting too close to contests at stoppages. When we won the ball outside we were under pressure and had to over use it or kick under pressure. We could not run and carry it forward and when the ball got out of the contest and past our players we were vulnerable as the dogs outside men set up very wide and had loads of space to run with. They used the long handball well and we didn't. At least if we set up wider then we would have been able put pressure on them when they used their outside players. when there were stoppages in our forward 50 we had all our players in close and not many runners set up well outside the congestion, they did and all they had to do was win the ball and go long and sideways to lose men and waltz out of our forward line under minimal pressure. The fact we didn't cover their lose players in this situation was poor. It's not hard for us to have outside men set up forther away so they can run hard and recieve both long and short handballs and put pressure on opposition who are set up long and wide.

4. Kicks to advantage. Forever the way to kick a ball is to a player on their own or out in front of a leading player. I can hardly remember a ball being popped out in front of a leading target up forward all day. Were we not leading hard enough, were we not leading often enough or were the players delivering the ball against the dogs blind? The answer is yes to all of these. Why does a crowded forward line stop us from leading and putting the ball in front of leading forwards? It shouldn't. I recon most of the kicks to Henderson and O'hAilpin today were high kicks over their heads or directly at them or to the goal mouth where no one was set up to attack. It's like our forwards had one game plan and the midfielders had another. We gave our talls no chance to crash a pack and take a mark.

5. Leaving the lose man lose and kicking it to him continuously. The amount of times we kicked the ball to a lose opposition player or a 2 on one today was shocking. One, it's poor decision making by the kicker and two, it's dumb by the player who lets him lose. Lake or Morris kept getting lose one on two and we let it happen. Surely one of those players belonged to either Henderson or O'hAilpin. Then where were they? When there are two talls on the FF in the goal square drop back and pick them up. If your man is getting lose in space or double teaming a tall then go to the goal square to open up and make it one on one. This is stupid and selfish play. Our forwards just don't always work as a team, they can be selfish. At least if you have the Carlton player being double teamed in the goal square and put an opponant on the lose man then at least it's two on two and it might creat a hole in defence and the two carlton players might be able to put blocks on for each other.

6. Dealing with star attacking defenders. We aren't too bad at dealing with really good medium or small good attacking defenders. Houlihan usually does that job. He does it by putting himself in a really attacking position or sacrificing his game and taking his man to an area where he's not likely to get the ball. Today we came across a tall star attacking defender in Lake who gave our forwards a lesson. Setanta was a liability, he was too weak, unskillful, lacked smarts, awareness and slow to do anything about him. I dunno if it's our coaches or the player having no idea what to do but we needed to run him around and run him into the ground. We needed to push him hard up the ground and force him to run hard, force him to play CHB and make our CHF really cover the ground. We didn't, we let him rest and he always had plenty in the tank to run hard out of defence, and get deep in defence where he is comfortable and able to hurt us. Was his opponent too lazy and selfish or are our coaches clueless when it comes to coaching a forward line? For Ratten to come out in the media and say Lake was a worry and do nothing about him is a real worry.

7. Who is responsible for this? Ratten? Lappin? It's not that we don't have the players or the talent up forward, it's that we don't have the smarts, structure or proper game plan to do things right when the opposition have a good defence and get numbers back. Is it time we got a new coach for our forwards? I'd love to get Matthew Lloyd as our forward coach. Someone who hasn't played all their football at Carlton and as a small/medium sized player who might have something different and good to bring to the table. Our forward structure, our forwards ability to work smart and as a team is a joke and is amateurish.

 

[Sin City]

1. Midfielders, stay the f*** out of the forward 50. Ever wonder why in so many games our opposition look to have loads of space in their forward 50 and why ours appears to be flooded at the same time? It's because our Midfielders float forward instead of hanging back and trying to be an option to go sideways to between 50 and center.

Good sides will go sideways at half forward to find space, open up the fat side, open up more of the forward 50 and get closer to make it a short kick forward when the forward line is flooded. Collingwood do this well. Because if you move it along the boundary you must be prepared to deal with a zone and that means going short and kicking sideways across half forward and using the short kick forward because the forward 50 will be crowded if you move it along the boundary. You need to use the short kick to find a leading target in a flood. Long kicking into a crowded forward line wont work because too many players can get to a long kick.

Our midfielders need to learn not to go into our forward line when their opponents do, it plays into their hands too well because it cuts off our sideways options and cuts out the option of holding possession of the ball and bringing it inside and closer to the forward line before delivering it to our forwards.

It also hurts us defensively. Midfielders like to draw their opponents deep into the forward line so they are out of the way when the ball is turned over. This opens the midfield right up and even half decent teams can break, run off half back into the vacant midfield and get it forward very quickly giving Carlton defenders no chance. It also stops our midfielders from running back into the opposition forward line and blocking the oppositions forwards space.

This is why our midfield and even our forward flankers need to be better at holding back, setting up for a turn over and using short/sideways kicks to get it to our forwards. If our mids do get sucked in to going forward too far then they can't get back to help out the defence and we'll get massive scores kicked against us.

Now just a minute gbatman. I completely agree with you

We were dominating teams when we had an open forward line so our smalls could run into it, so teams put numbers back to fill up the space. Hawthorn and North did it really well and the dogs did it to perfection today. The way we have responded to it is by just going in and manning them up, meaning it gets even more crowded in there and the opposition use their extra numbers to run the ball out and kick it into an open forward line.

We're a good team but we're no different to most teams in that we can't just try and play the game on our terms, teams are trying to shut us down and at the moment they're succeeding. We need to get numbers back just like they're doing, force a few of them to be accountable and come and man our guys up. I never thought I'd say this this year but we need to get the attitude Richmond and the Kangaroos are playing with, become a really difficult team to play against and a team that is never out of the contest.

 

[gbatman]

Spot on Sin, when our mids go in and man up the lose men inside forward 50 we lose more space in there, leave the midfield unattended and are vulnerable as hell on the rebound. It also makes it impossible for our midfield to get back and help the defence. Ratts and Co. have no idea. The only way is to stay out.

Sometimes the only way to clear the forward line it to go in there, turn it over and then cause a turn over straight after that as when the ball is turned over the players run forward and clear the forward line.

This is an area of the game Collingwood have mastered IMO. We must be able to play different styles of footy, we must learn to identify situations of the game better. There is a time to get it in there quick or long and there is a time to hold it up at half forward and chip it around and be patient.
Collingwood play their attacking game up to half forward. They will go any way just to get to half forward. Getting the ball to half forward is their goal. They believe opposition midfielders will vacate the midfield when they get to half forward and flood their forward line. They use this flooding to their advantage to move the ball sideways across half forward with ease until a gap opens up and a short pass can be made. If the opposition don't flood Collingwood's forward line they get the ball in there quick and direct like we do all the time.

 

[HeziBarecket]

Garlett tries his guts out every week, Betts and Yarran don't.

Our talls are dysfunctional. Henderson is a trier and will improve next year, but no-one else will. Waite needs to consoidate there as well otherwise we need another KPP, simle as that. Setanta is waiting for the ship home to hurling.

Houla only plays well if all the above are doing OK, so essentially he's a space filler. th mids should be doing more, or we put bloody Thornton in there or bring in Wiggo to cover the other flank.

Are mids are just plain lazy and not playing as a unit. You get Carrots and Simmo not playing their role and things get found out real quick and we find we are chasing another team's score for most of a game.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Our forward structure and our forwards are at times stupid. There are no rules or structures regarding our forward line. We have no idea how to open it up, where to lead, where to position, how to draw opponents, how to create space, how to kick to tall stationary players, dealing with lose or zoned players and functioning as a team to help other players get the ball etc.

1. Midfielders, stay the f*** out of the forward 50. Ever wonder why in so many games our opposition look to have loads of space in their forward 50 and why ours appears to be flooded at the same time? It's because our Midfielders float forward instead of hanging back and trying to be an option to go sideways to between 50 and center. This is when we lose we lose big, the opposition break from our forward line with ease, they have midfield space and forward space and can go forward quickly.

Good sides will go sideways at half forward to find space, open up the fat side, open up more of the forward 50 and get closer to make it a short kick forward when the forward line is flooded. Collingwood do this well. Because if you move it along the boundary you must be prepared to deal with a zone and that means going short and kicking sideways across half forward and using the short kick forward because the forward 50 will be crowded if you move it along the boundary. You need to use the short kick to find a leading target in a flood. Long kicking into a crowded forward line wont work because too many players can get to a long kick.

Our midfielders need to learn not to go into our forward line when their opponents do, it plays into their hands too well because it cuts off our sideways options and cuts out the option of holding possession of the ball and bringing it inside and closer to the forward line before delivering it to our forwards.

It also hurts us defensively. Midfielders like to draw their opponents deep into the forward line so they are out of the way when the ball is turned over. This opens the midfield right up and even half decent teams can break, run off half back into the vacant midfield and get it forward very quickly giving Carlton defenders no chance. It also stops our midfielders from running back into the opposition forward line and blocking the oppositions forwards space.

This is why our midfield and even our forward flankers need to be better at holding back, setting up for a turn over and using short/sideways kicks to get it to our forwards. If our mids do get sucked in to going forward too far then they can't get back to help out the defence and we'll get massive scores kicked against us.

2. Positioning and leading is crap. So often I see small forwards standing between 15 and 45 meters from goal in the space in central positions when we are looking to go forward. Are we trying to help the opposition sides zone and clog things up? Our players need a system where they lead to certain areas, learn to be dangerous so they get followed and open the space up for the players to lead into. Our leading is terrible but so is our ability to create space. Barry Hall did it simple, lead hard into the most central space. Sometimes our didn't lead, led backwards or chose the wrong space (wide when the corridor was open). We were scared of one or two zoning players. Our forwards and midfield need to know they can lead at a lose opposition player. Our midfielders need to know how to kick the ball (give it a bit more air) when a forward is leading near a lose man so that they can either run past him or and crash into him.

3. Getting sucked in to close to stoppages. It was happening all over the ground. Our outside players were getting too close to contests at stoppages. When we won the ball outside we were under pressure and had to over use it or kick under pressure. We could not run and carry it forward and when the ball got out of the contest and past our players we were vulnerable as the dogs outside men set up very wide and had loads of space to run with. They used the long handball well and we didn't. At least if we set up wider then we would have been able put pressure on them when they used their outside players. when there were stoppages in our forward 50 we had all our players in close and not many runners set up well outside the congestion, they did and all they had to do was win the ball and go long and sideways to lose men and waltz out of our forward line under minimal pressure. The fact we didn't cover their lose players in this situation was poor.

4. Kicks to advantage. Forever the way to kick a ball is to a player on their own or out in front of a leading player. I can hardly remember a ball being popped out in front of a leading target up forward all day. Were we not bleeding hard enough, were we not leading often enough or were the players delivering the ball today blind? The answer is yes to all of these. why does a crowded forward line stop us from leading and putting the ball in front of leading forwards? It shouldn't. I recon most of the kicks to Henderson and O'hAilpin today were high kicks over their heads or directly at them or to the goal mouth where no one was set up to attack. It's like our forwards had one game plan and the midfielders had another.

5. Leaving the lose man lose and kicking it to him continuously. The amount of times we kicked the ball to a lose opposition player or a 2 on one today was shocking. One, it's poor decision making by the kicker and two, it's dumb by the player who lets him lose. Lake or Morris kept getting lose one on two and we let it happen. Surely one of those players belonged to either Henderson or O'hAilpin. Then where were they? When there are two talls on the FF in the goal square drop back and pick them up. If your man is getting lose in space or double teaming a tall then go to the goal square to open up and make it one on one. This is stupid and selfish play. Our forwards just don't always work as a team, they can be selfish.

6. Dealing with star attacking defenders. We aren't too bad at dealing with really good medium or small good attacking defenders. Houlihan usually does that job. He does it by putting himself in a really attacking position or sacrificing his game and taking his man to an area where he's not likely to get the ball. Today we came across a tall star attacking defender in Lake who gave our forwards a lesson. Setanta was a liability, he was too weak, unskillful, stupid and slow to do anything about him. I dunno if it's our coaches or the player having no idea what to do but we needed to run him around and run him into the ground. We needed to push him hard up the ground and force him to run hard, force him to play CHB and make our CHF really cover the ground. We didn't, we let him rest and he always had plenty in the tank to run hard out of defence, and get deep in defence where he is comfortable and able to hurt us. Was his opponent was too lazy and selfish or are our coaches clueless when it comes to coaching a forward line? For Ratten to come out in the media and say Lake was a worry and do nothing about him is a real worry.

7. Who is responsible for this? Ratten? Lappin? It's not that we don't have the players or the talent up forward, it's that we don't have the smarts, structure or proper game plan to do things right when the opposition have a good defence and get numbers back. Is it time we got a new coach for our forwards? I'd love to get Matthew Lloyd as our forward coach. Someone who hasn't played all their football at Carlton and as a small/medium sized player who might have something different and good to bring to the table. Our forward structure, our forwards ability to work smart and as a team is a joke and is amateurish.

Agree gbatman.

There has been one general tactic against Carlton in the last 6 weeks. Get numbers back. It's worked a charm. It works for very average teams. Most of your plays make sense are sound approaches to counter this approach. I particularly agree too with your breakdown of Collingwood's take on a flooded forward line.

All of this becomes very obvious when you're at the game and can see the repetitive use of congestion against us.

When we're handed space on a platter, we play very well. But that hasn't happened in nearly 2 months. It's the worst kept secret in the league.

Only our coaching panel don't seem to be in on it.

My heart sank when the 4th quarter began with a congested defence and once again, Setanta who had showed nothing, a lone presence in the forward line. If that wasn't the moment to try something new, even just as research for future games, what was? Put Thornton forward or Houla. Upset the match-ups for a while. Be unpredictable. The changes should have been made at the end of the first. Instead, they weren't made at all.

It was a golden gift to Rodney Eade and co.

The flood sucks. It's boring, predictable - it's atrociously un-dynamic to watch. Ruining the game in my opinion. But until they brutally cap the number of rotations, it's here to stay. We are going to have to deal with it, instead of just hoping for a good old fashioned shoot out.

 

[Abaddon]

Any team with a forward line consisting of OHailpin, Hampson and Henderson is going to lack forward structure. The former two are like dumb and dumber. They have no idea what they are doing and are barely VFL standard. An in form Jarrad Waite will make a difference. Henderson can continue to present and learn the game. The sooner they piss off OHailpin back to ireland the better. He may have a spot in a bottom 4 side, but he has no place in a team trying to play finals.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

We still haven't found a way to counter opposition teams flooding our fwd line. Right now, teams would be queueing up to play us.

1) We dont have a KPP forward who can make an impact on the fwd line to force the opposition to change they way they defend (flood)
2) We dont have enough class disposal for force a change on the flooding tactic
3) And they are happy to have their own fwd line open and leave one on one contests for their own fwds because they think their fwds are better than our defenders...or at least can identify 2-3 good matchups...and they'd be right

Of course...we will beat teams because the guys will put in osme super human effort games to get us over the line. But the upshot is, they needs something to change to stop the flooding...it has us beat at the minute! It kills our 3 little amigos dead!

 

[happydude]

I agree about need a KPP do you think they are waiting for levi casboult to come good?

Time is of the essencew and wneed to start dominating asap of we want to win a flag. its starting to look like this team will never get there.

 

[jj1978]

• Henderson making valuable contributions and is improving week in week out now - must stay!
• Garlett, tries and tries and has footy nouse - must stay.
• Yarran, tries to be tooooooo fancy and silky with his passes and making stupid decisions... also not hard enough when going for a tackle or applying pressure without the ball. Either he starts playing percentage football or it's back to the 2's for him.. he has one more chance to redeem himself.
• Betts - too hot and cold this season.... another poor performance by him and it would be worthy to put him into the 2's to prove a point that senior players must live and deliver or at least show some leadership.
• Setanta - should not have been in the 1's for the last couple... we might as well have left him on the bench the whole game as useful as he's been lately. He has no footy brain like Whitnall to be able to be of use injury hampered. Without his athleticism he is a lame useless duck and should be rested till he's right.
• Waite - thank god Walker, Russell have been good this season and now with Bower back we have no need to throw Waite down back. Time for him to show his worth as a forward and should be winning our goal kicking 2011-2013.
• Houlihan - when the chips are down he just goes missing! Senior player and am very disappointed with his efforts the last month.

We have a problem with our group!! Laziness!! Our midfield can be lazy! Our forward line can be lazy!!! Our defence tries their gutts out and it's no wonder players like Thornton, Russell start to drop their heads for no matter how hard they try and rebound successfully too often the opposition get a simple turnover from our mids/forwards and put our defence under pressure again.

 

[gbatman]

it's not that we don't have any KPF's, it's that our other forwards and mids don't do enough to create space for them or use work the ball around half forward and use the short kick and give them a chance. Fair chance if the dogs played with our forward structure and clog things up even Barry Hall would have kicked next to nothing on the weekend.

Put any good tall forward in that side it wont matter, if we don't play a proper style of footy and open things up and use the short kick then we are going to go no where. Lets see how things go when we give the players we have a chance. I never saw a ball put out infront of a player to run onto in our forward line appart from the opening minute.

 

[Blues_FC]

I reckon we look our best when we're playing a "Geelong style" game. When we're running through the corridor and handballing, we move the ball very efficiently. We did this really well last night, and it suits our superior speed very well.

As I see it, the problems crop up when we:

1. Try to kick the ball. Our skills seem to have gone out the window. Can't hit a target and choose to kick to the wrong teammates in the wrong positions.

2. Get near the forward 50 and have nobody inside 50 to kick to. Here's where the loss of Fev is really hurting us. We just don't have a powerful forward option. Henderson is doing well but getting too much of his possessions on the wings nad outside the 50. Then he's getting pushed into the backline by Ratten, where I don't think he's needed. Setanta just has no idea how to play football and has zero skills to boot. He will never feature in a Carlton side that is seriously challenging for a premiership. The sooner we find someone to replace him, the better.

I think a mix of one (at least) serious power forward along with Yarran, Betts and Garlett is the way forward in the long run. Hopefully the power forwards can be Hendo and someone like Levi Casboult.

I'd even consider persisting with the "Thornton as forward" option. I don't see the point in giving Thornton 10 minutes here or there in the forward line. If we really want to see how he plays as a forward, give him a few weeks to get used to the role. We can't just expect him to slot into the forward line once a blue moon and have an impact.

 

[gbatman]

We made a few skill errors, but so did they, it just looks bad from us because becaue of our structure or lack ok

 

[IheartCarrots]

We have a problem with our group!! Laziness!! Our midfield can be lazy! Our forward line can be lazy!!! Our defence tries their gutts out and it's no wonder players like Thornton, Russell start to drop their heads for no matter how hard they try and rebound successfully too often the opposition get a simple turnover from our mids/forwards and put our defence under pressure again.

Henderson: Should not be dropped, ever! I'd think it would be far better for his development to play as a swingman in the AFL than playing as a forward in the magoos. Keep giving him stints down back to get some touches and work himself into the game.

Yarran: Wholeheartedly agree. Everybody goes on and on about his sublime skills and disposal, but he makes too many bad decisions on the field. I'm not saying he doesn't have good skills but if he is going to waste them by continually making bad choices then he is no good to the side.

Setanta: Is playing like Cloke. He is having trouble with his body and should be RESTED, not playing VFL. Let him get over his injuries and then try and find some form.

I feel terrible for Thornton and Russell for the same reasons. I love seeing Thornton have a teary when he gets beaten because it shows he still believes he can do better and still cares. Passion for the club and the game is something that seems to be missing from a few players.

I think the 3 aboriginal boys are causing us some trouble. They are too hungry and are wasting chances. Simmo and Murph can be the same sometimes.

Rather than just bomb it to Setanta/Hendo to bring to ground when the F50 is packed, I'd like to see us try and free up someone like Gibbs, Simmo, Scotland or even Thornton and let them have a crack from outside the arc. Let's force the opposition to man up and keep our F50 fairly clear or risk having a few long bombs kicked.

 

[Blues_Man]

I wonder who told Jameison to take on the opposition more with his slow brain that must mean play on at every opportunity and turn the ball over...i can't believe how dumb he was last night.

 

[Malifice]

Need a quility young marking tall KPP.

 

[gbatman]

Need a quility young marking tall KPP.

Need a forward structure that supports them first. Then we will get to see if any of our talls can play or not. Need to learn how to move the ball around half forward with a flooded forward line.

Poor positioning by our midfield and forwards. We created the worst invoronment by our positioning and decision making for tall forwards, no one could have taken a mark up forward for us.

our forward line does not function as a team and the midfield does the wrong thing by getting sucked into it and bombing long to the flood and kicking to position and not to leading.


We do everything possible to leave the midfiield open for the opposition to run and carry the ball through so our defence has no chance, our midfielders get into positions so we can't go sideways in the forward half and so they can't get back to help the defence and slow the opposition down in the midfield. Our forwards do everything to clog it up for each other and eradicate all space. We don't lead and when we do our mids don't kick it to them. We kick to position too often, leave that in the past.

Our structure hurts us both in defence and in attack.

Do you wonder why we lose to some poor sides and beat the top sides like Geelong? It's no mystery, my OP in this thread explains it. Teams that don't get back in defence and don't block the space in our backline murder us and teams that try and play attacking footy and get numbers back get flogged by us because we only know how to play one type of footy, because we have no idea how to play defencive sides.



This is why when we win we win big but when we lose we lose big. This is why when we win our forward line is open and our defence does well and we find the goals.
This is why when we lose we lose by loads even though we often match or win the midfield battle. This is why when we lose it blows out in the last quarter by loads. This is why when we lose the opposition are often seen running through a vacant midfield and delivering into a very wide open foreward line while our forward line looks stagnant and has no space to speak of.

Hawthorn cracked our code, they were the first to figure out how to beat us, they know all this, now every one does. If you think we'll beat the Cats or Saints again your laughing, they'll use this game style and they will smash us well out of existance.

If we can't turn it around and learn to play both styles of football then we will be lucky to win another game and we will need a coaching over haul.

It's not the players not trying or not being good enough, the players are trying, that's obvious, they are still winning loads of the ball, we know we are good enough, we have beaten Geelong and St. Kilda this year.
The reason we are losing is because we are being out coached. We are not responding to the game plan implemented against us. We are not able to play both styles of footy. When a defencive game plan is implemented we can not ajust to it and we do not know how to position ourselves to play this way.

It's not a lack of talent, endevor, skill or ability as to why we are losing. We are losing because we are being out coached, because we know only one game style. We are losing from a lack of brains either from the players or our coaches. Because that's what it is when all the players get on the wrong position on the ground.

 

[zeeCFC]

sticky thread and send to CFC

 

[gbatman]

sticky thread and send to CFC

haha, yeah would send it to them, but recon that'd be pointless.

Not sure if they want to know how to improve the side up to premiership standard or how to beat those sides they can't and how to beat sides who push the numbers back. For the money they get paid surely they can figure all this out, how many years has it been...

 

[CFC16]

Blame the coaching and the recruiting staff for our forward line and the list.
Should have never traded Kennedy and Fevola. That's why our forward line is a mess and our backline isn't much better.

 

[gbatman]

Blame the coaching and the recruiting staff for our forward line and the list.
Should have never traded Kennedy and Fevola. That's why our forward line is a mess and our backline isn't much better.

So you think our midfield would kick it smarter, position better and do the defencive things with those two still in the team. Do you think our other forwards would position better with them in the side? Only because Fevola used to direct the forwards a bit and coach on the field. But still Fevola was inconsistant as hell and caused too many other problems plus is starting to winde down fast.

Those two could not function in our forward line at all the way we play.

 

[mac25]

So you think our midfield would kick it smarter, position better and do the defencive things with those two still in the team. Do you think our other forwards would position better with them in the side? Only because Fevola used to direct the forwards a bit and coach on the field. But still Fevola was inconsistant as hell and caused too many other problems plus is starting to winde down fast.

Those two could not function in our forward line at all the way we play.

We had only two less forward entries than the Dogs yesterday, whilst you have made some valid points, part of being a good forward is to lead to the right spots and to be able to beat an opponent, something our forwards simply do not do.

O'Alphin has been a total liability for 8 weeks, Hampson is clearly not a forward, Betts is our so far our best forward it is not funny, with him having a downer yesterday really reinforced how ordinary we are having viable options in our attack.

In the early part of the game we played okay, but our attack simply did not look like scoring and it is riduclous to suggest that a Kennedy or whoever would not function in our attack, at least it would provide some direction and confidence to our midfield.

 

[son of dominator]

should bring in White, Wiggins and Fisher and play them all as forwards.

bring back Waite and play him down back

 

[gbatman]

Wiggins and Fisher, so two players who can't kick and are poor chasers and one who is a bad tackler. How does this help us? White maybe.

We need to fix how our forwards and midfielders play when this kind of defence is implemented against us. It wont matter who we bring in who we could have still had playing for us, if we go about it that way and with that game style against those sort of opposition we will still get slaughtered. Put blugger and Carey down there, they still would struggle in an over crowded forward line and we still would open ourselves up to getting smashed on the rebound. We are pathetic, we are not up with the game styles of modern football.

We need to get to training and work our asses off on a better setup for our forwards and mids when we go forward.

 

[Madblue]

Sorry to say it guys but boy are we missing Fev now more than ever.

 

[gbatman]

Sorry to say it guys but boy are we missing Fev now more than ever.

We are a little but even he would could not kick goals when we played like that. Doesn't matter who is up forward, when you bomb long to position and not players advantage into a flooded forward line no one can kick goals. The way he's travelling he'll be warn out in a year or two's time any way. Henderson will be a star if we educate him right and actually give him a chance and kick it to his advantage when he's leading.