Fremantle....is anybody scared??

[jod23]

Well no doubt we will hear it all offseason ... Weve got Croad and Farmer and McPharlin...we will finish in the top 8.

Its like a broken record, every year the freo fans predict that the Dockers will finally break through and become..dare we say it.....good. But every year they disappoint, will next year be any different. I think a big question is how the hell is there midfield gonna fair without Fletcher and Black.

Anyway i think they wont improve much as Farmer is a show pony and McPharlin will be injured most of the year. Croad however could be anything.

Thoughts

 

[Voice of Reason]

Generally I view Freo as just another team to be beaten, so I don't pay too much attention to what their supporters boast about. Their record since joining the AFL has been absolutely disgraceful, only finishing above the Eagles once, by one point or two, depending on how you look at it.

The way AFL socialism works with the draft and the salary cap, Freo should have done much better already - so they're (over)due for a big season. I too am not impressed with Farmer. McPharlin is a terrific prospect I suspect, but carries a serious injury. Croad I'm still not convinced about for some reason. Simmonds is OK. Will they play Croad in midfield?

So while they appear to have done quite well in the draft (and cleared out some deadwood), I still don't know how well they will go next year. Instant success from a St Kilda-esque position is not easy and I doubt whether it will happen, unless the new coach is a miracle worker (but so was Blighty).

However, they could make the bottom end of the Eight (though I doubt it), which according to their supporters is not success whenever we do it.

I'm happy with our patient rebuilding approach. It remains to be seen whether Freo can do it quick smart.

Is that provocative enough?

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Voice of Reason
Generally I view Freo as just another team to be beaten, so I don't pay too much attention to what their supporters boast about. Their record since joining the AFL has been absolutely disgraceful, only finishing above the Eagles once, by one point or two, depending on how you look at it.

The way AFL socialism works with the draft and the salary cap, Freo should have done much better already - so they're (over)due for a big season. I too am not impressed with Farmer. McPharlin is a terrific prospect I suspect, but carries a serious injury. Croad I'm still not convinced about for some reason. Simmonds is OK. Will they play Croad in midfield?

So while they appear to have done quite well in the draft (and cleared out some deadwood), I still don't know how well they will go next year. Instant success from a St Kilda-esque position is not easy and I doubt whether it will happen, unless the new coach is a miracle worker (but so was Blighty).

However, they could make the bottom end of the Eight (though I doubt it), which according to their supporters is not success whenever we do it.

I'm happy with our patient rebuilding approach. It remains to be seen whether Freo can do it quick smart.

Is that provocative enough?

I think you expertly side stepped the question

 

[Goldenblue]

Fremantle is another side in the comp, another one of 15 teams in the season to beat. West Aussie side or not, I don't care.

How many seasons have we heard after recruiting big name players how they will reach the finals this year. If they do good luck to them. Regardless, they are not a successful side and will need more than a few players to be successful.

As much as they are building a spine, their midfield now looks a little shaky, but we shall see as the season wears on. If they get some good midfielders in the next draft, they may actually hit the finals, which may be good for the club to get the respect it needs.

Still, however, the WCE need to concentrate more on being a good side for ALL CLUBS to fear and not just compete with the Dorkers season in and season out. Our objective is the flag, not if and where we finish on the ladder compared to the Shockers.

 

[kuepper]

spot on ...

Originally posted by Goldenblue
Still, however, the WCE need to concentrate more on being a good side for ALL CLUBS to fear and not just compete with the Dorkers season in and season out. Our objective is the flag, not if and where we finish on the ladder compared to the Shockers.

Ahhhh touché Goldenblue, I agree - and it goes both ways.

I for one love beating the Wet Toast, but apart from that I seriously could careless fro the bravado about being 'best team in WA' which this year meant as much as being the best clubman for the Taliban Tigers - ie no one will respect you anyway.

However Jod, the mere fact you are even posing threads such as this, means you have at least given it some thought, which is proabably alot more that previous years

Seriously though, if your side had recruited players the calibre of Farmer and Croad, you too would be excuited by the prospects of advance ... I do find it humourous that these 2 are putdown now we have them (Especially by the Hawk fans, if he is such a 'hack' then why all the fuss about trading him from their supporter base?) - either way we are going in the right direction, and am confident of a much improved effort last year - dont forget although Freo won but 2 games *sigh* we did in fact manage to win nearly 1/2 of our qtrs (38/88) so a 10% improvement, combined with a winning mindset, will mean for a lot more wins ... finals however? you wouldnt think so now would you ... then again you wouldn't have thought Port would have made it this year either!

Stranger things have happened, as they say!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

If everything goes according to plan - they look a good bet for 9wins and 10th-11th place.

If everything goes to plan, that is.

But Freo are a rabble - regardless of who they have on their list. They've had some great players and more than competent squads in the past but couldn't win more than 10 games in a season.

13th with 6 wins is my prediction

cheers

 

[PC28]

This is like St Kilda last year (no offence to the Saint fans)

All build up, all promise, win their first game, and then fizzle out...

I wouldn't be too concerned... Unless of course they play the Doggies in the first round...

 

[Pessimistic]

This is nothing to do with the croad stuff freo fans, but didn't you get rid of drum mid season and employ a caretaker in order to get the new coaching panel sorted out early ? Pre-season starts in november and West coast might employ a coach before you.

What is happening ?

 

[Frodo]

I think Freo have got a good chance of raching the finals this year. The main difference is not players but the CEO. I feel Schwab is making a difference to a club that has had a rabble of a management since inception.
On the playing front the key signings are Croad and Farmer. Croad should help the defence which was woeful and Farmer will kick 40 or so goals which will be an assett.
On the negative side they lost Heath Black who was one of their best, Bandy and Fletcher will go too. This depletes their midfield so the likes of Haselby will need to stand up. But it is possible that Hasselby will stand up, Pavlich and McPhee will continue to improve and they will have Clem Michael back in the ruck. So on balance they could do well.

On the other hand the Eagles traded big last year and the two top signings went out for knee reconstructions. If that happened to Farmer and Croad then iI would have to be thinking spoon time again.

 

[kuepper]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
But Freo are a rabble - regardless of who they have on their list.

Like the swans of the early to mid 90's BSA?

they seemd to step up with the addition of name recruits, care to enlighten us why this would be any different?

 

[kuepper]

Originally posted by Pessimistic
What is happening ?

As I stated in late August, after going to Cameron Schwabs first function as Docker CEO, the inference was Connelly 23as signed, sealed and delivere ... and nothing has changed in regards to that.

He will be appointed in next 10 days, after they nterview all prospects - exaclty why they are bothering I am not sure ...

 

[Visro]

Originally posted by Frodo
I think Freo have got a good chance of raching the finals this year. The main difference is not players but the CEO. I feel Schwab is making a difference to a club that has had a rabble of a management since inception.
On the playing front the key signings are Croad and Farmer. Croad should help the defence which was woeful and Farmer will kick 40 or so goals which will be an assett.
On the negative side they lost Heath Black who was one of their best, Bandy and Fletcher will go too. This depletes their midfield so the likes of Haselby will need to stand up. But it is possible that Hasselby will stand up, Pavlich and McPhee will continue to improve and they will have Clem Michael back in the ruck. So on balance they could do well.

On the other hand the Eagles traded big last year and the two top signings went out for knee reconstructions. If that happened to Farmer and Croad then iI would have to be thinking spoon time again.

I can't believe I just read that. Frodo, renowned for his hatred of Freo admitting they might finally be a force next year....WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO!!! AGHHHHHH..............WE'RE ALL DOOMED I TELL YA!!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

hey kuepper

No, you are not as bad as the 92-94 Swans, but luckily you won 2 this year to spare yourselves that ignomy - LOL

My point is this - Fremantle have had good lists in the past, much better lists than alot of other clubs at the time.

But you have never had a winning season in your entire history - why ?

I see a pattern of chronic and systemic under achievement developing at Femantle. Similar in alot of respects to Sydney, Melbourne and Geelong over here in the East.

Good teams, play attractive footy - but in the end a bunch of losers who just don't have that ruthless take-no-prisoners attitude, which is what it takes if you wanna win more than you lose, play in the finals, and ultimately square off in the big one.

cheers

 

[eagleskickass]

I believe Freo is looking up, on and off the field. In the past they have been very poorly managed but next year they will have A new exciting young coach(Connelly) and new coaching staff as well, CEO Cameron Schwabb who has already changed the view of the club and is much better run under him, Maybe a couple of new board members, who knows, 2 Top Recruits in Farmer and Croad, both of which if don't get injured will raise the clubdramatically, The 4th Best youngster in the Country (then what pick is it) and will have young guns that now have 2-3 years of AFL experience so they will improve probably. Their list is just starting to mature, and with delistings(won't be too many i suspect) they will rid a lot of the dead wood. Really, the Dockers are in a great position to move up the ladder, to anywhere between 7-12 I believe, but only time will tell if they fail as they have done in past seasons, but I doubt that with the new management that this will happen.

I am a WA footy follower, and the Dockers going well is good for footy(mind you, I would prefer the Eagles to be doing better than them

 

[kuepper]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
No, you are not as bad as the 92-94 Swans, but luckily you won 2 this year to spare yourselves that ignomy - LOL

Well you can say that again, anyone who saw me at the last home game of the year will be aware how happy I was

My point is this - Fremantle have had good lists in the past, much better lists than alot of other clubs at the time.

But you have never had a winning season in your entire history - why ?

You are right, it is a mentality, or a culture of losing - which can be changed, as you guys showed in '96 with a new coach and a new recruit, you suddenly exploded, and the whole culture changed, and I for one, under the guidance of C Schwab, can already see and feel those changes in culture occuring, and I am sure that in the next few years a very different club will develop.

I do see your point tho, no question ... however as I say, I think an experienced CEO, with atrue belief that he can get it done, is allk it is going to take, lock away connelly, and then appoint some tested and true coaching staff to support him (Ken Judge is just about a lock to be assistant I feel, and his experience with youth, combined with the fact he cant be exposed for his tactical genuis (or lack thereof) will ensure a depth of coaching, and administration savvy the club has never had the pleasure of seeing.

Trust me on this one, it will be a very different Freo side next year!

 

[Voice of Reason]

To the original question, no I'm not scared.

My prediction is that Freo's acquisitions combined with the expected improvement of their existing players might be enough to scrape 7th or 8th next year if everything goes their way.

As I suggested with a post on the Freo board though, they are very susceptible to injury (ie they don't have much depth) and performance. By performance, I mean that football is a game played above the shoulders - and I question the strength of Farmer, Croad and Waterhouse (3 key players) in that regard.

Depending on the coach, the analogy with St Kilda last year is fair enough, except that Freo do have some very good young players - Haselby, Brown, Pavlich, Woods etc. They need leadership and while I have a lot of time for Peter Bell, he can't do it all on his own.

Schwab is the hero now, but he has a very chequered history and is in the position through nepotism. He will go sour.

Overall, my prediction - improvement, some good wins, but they need a charmed run with injury to finish above 12th.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Originally posted by kuepper
I for one, under the guidance of C Schwab, can already see and feel those changes in culture occuring, and I am sure that in the next few years a very different club will develop.

But is Schwab's presence going to be worth sweet FA when it comes to playing the game? Schwab's impact on the club has stemmed mainly from the fact that the CEO carries great influence in off-season matters like trading and getting a coach. But I would have thought the change in PLAYING culture would be more likely to stem from an influential senior coach rather than a CEO.

 

[jod23]

I think there 2 biggest problems are depth and there midfield. There midfield has been badly depleted with the departures of Fletcher and Black and unless they draft a Kerr then i doubt there midfield will win enough of the ball to create victories.

There depth is also bad, i saw Kuepper or Sabre (one of em) post there best 22 for next year and there bench was pretty bad, There starting 18 looks really good but a couple of injuries and the whole thing could come crashing down.

Still i think they will improve and with there gun recruits and the Saints bound to get better with Harvey, Burke, Loewe and Black then most ppl will be looking in our direction to hand over the spoon....

But we will take the spoon ..... AND SMACK IT OVER THERE HEAD!! Eagles and last HUH! I love in the face of last...

Ok sorry got a bit sidetracked but i do think a lot of people will be predicting us for the spoon next year.

 

[bunsen burner]

I think it is fair to speculate that they will be higher on the ladder than us. They might even beat us in 1 or 2 of the derbies.


Scared? NO!

If they beat us, so be it. We have more to worry about than the Fremantle Football Club. We should be focussing on developing a team that will win us a flag 3-4 years down the track. We should keep our eye on that goal and not get distracted by a second-rate club.

The whole culture of the Dockers seems to be focussed at beating the Eagles. This is what they do, not what we do. We have two flags in the bag and will win more - and the Frementle Football Club has no bearing on this what so ever.

Rivalry is healthy, but let's not lose focus of who we are.

 

[WA]

I think many are under-estimating Freo. Their recruits may well become the deciding factor in games that they SHOULD have won this year. The loss of Black and Fletcher will hurt, but who know's, the Draft is just around the corner....
I think they'll certainly give us and a couple of others, a run for our money next year. Good Luck to them I say!

 

[Frodo]

In reality Freo were woeful this season. Now we had our bad times but in reality the injury situatio probably robbed us of two or three positions on the ladder ( but we won an extra draft pick *).
Freo should go a lot better but you have to measure them against the likes of Brisbane and Carlton. If you do that then I believe they come up extremely short of the required depth of ability.

If we look at the Eagles then we are in the same position although we have traded for the future whilst Freo appear to be trading for the next two seasons.

It will be interesting. If there is a cultural change at Freo then it will be a very important step for them.

Two other things of importance. Will Freo membership rise to a reasonable number eg 30,000+? Will the many Freo fans who enjoy knocking their own players get behind them at last?

* I don't think it is a fair policy to reward a club that finishes with 5 wins because of injury. With their players fit again it gives them a clear advantage.