Frustrating

[JAJH]

Watching the Pies v Crows, I am continually frustrated watching the game play and style of Collingwood week after week whether they win or lose. Tonight was a clear example of a style that simply does not work to its' best advantage. Granted it was a very tough, tight and physical game, but not once did the likes of Tarrant or Rocca make lead into the forward 50mt. What is the point of just kicking the ball high and long into the forward line when Rocca was outnumbered 3 to 1 on every occasion? Ok, Tarrant makes loads of space up the ground, but what's the point of a forward/goal kicker having possession on the wing when there is no leading forward to kick it to? And how many possessions were the Crows allowed uncontested late in the last quarter...where is the old style of manning up gone, particularly when the game is so close? The way I see the Pies style of play and the fundamental errors they make is in three areas:
1. Kicking long into the forward 50 to a non-leading foward with more than one opponent and failure of those forwards to convert which is what they are paid to do.
2. Lack of intensity to clear the ball at stoppages and centre bounces, On- ballers are not hard enough at the ball to get the clearances.
3. Allowing too much uncontested play, players need to be more accountable.

 

[DJ Black @ White Blood]

Watching the Pies v Crows, I am continually frustrated watching the game play and style of Collingwood week after week whether they win or lose. Tonight was a clear example of a style that simply does not work to its' best advantage. Granted it was a very tough, tight and physical game, but not once did the likes of Tarrant or Rocca make lead into the forward 50mt. What is the point of just kicking the ball high and long into the forward line when Rocca was outnumbered 3 to 1 on every occasion? Ok, Tarrant makes loads of space up the ground, but what's the point of a forward/goal kicker having possession on the wing when there is no leading forward to kick it to? And how many possessions were the Crows allowed uncontested late in the last quarter...where is the old style of manning up gone, particularly when the game is so close? The way I see the Pies style of play and the fundamental errors they make is in three areas:
1. Kicking long into the forward 50 to a non-leading foward with more than one opponent and failure of those forwards to convert which is what they are paid to do.
2. Lack of intensity to clear the ball at stoppages and centre bounces, On- ballers are not hard enough at the ball to get the clearances.
3. Allowing too much uncontested play, players need to be more accountable.

You sound frustrated. I do not consider Taz to be a forward and are quite happy with him making space on the wing and accasionly having a shot at goal. I see no problem with kicking long to the forward 50 as the rovers get plenty of oppertunity to grab the crums. It is also almost impossible to man up on a team in the last 2 minutes of a game, why? i dont know i just havnt seen a team able to do it. Remember the due on the ground tonight was making really slippery conditions. I really thought we played a great game tonight. How was the Buckly clash in the centre bone crunching.

 

[bucksisbest]

It was a brave effort tonight , but I agree with your observations and it is a continual source of frustration.

 

[MagpieWayne]

2. Lack of intensity to clear the ball at stoppages and centre bounces, On- ballers are not hard enough at the ball to get the clearances.

I agree with you here and i think the club recognizes this as our major weakness.

We need another ruckman and more mids/onballers.

It will be a major focus come draft and trade time in the coming years.

 

[Jabso]

I don't have any problems with tonights gameplan. This has been a one off gameplan designed to beat Adelaide.

Our midfield was disapointing but it was a pretty even performance.
We needed a player to have a stellar game and we didn't really have that happen. In some ways the performance was perhaps too even.

JAJH I agree with you on 1 and 2 but on 3, tonight was the most accountable a team can get. This is what happens when you play one on one football.

Our team is inexperienced. I think that's what won the game for Adelaide in the end. We weren't prepared to keep possesion and our creative runs and handball game seemed a bit forced at times.

 

[FIGJAM]

Part of the problem is a reaction to our "gameplan" early last year, when we were rubbish, and we refused to give up the ball altogether and never went long, even when Rocca was fit.

Now we back ourselves to get a result by bombing it in to Rocca. Troble is, Rocca's crap and there are no crumbers. Near on guaranteed turnover.

Supporters don't want possession first footy and want the coach to take risks. People want possession first footy and don't want us to take risks. Lose lose situation really!

As with all things, it's a balance issue. We had the balance early on in the year, but have lost a bit of form. The good news is, having a bit of form six weeks out from the real deal is nigh on worthless.

We almost scalped the supposed benchmark, and defence aside, I reckon we have plenty of improvement in attack. Relax!

 

[DJ Black @ White Blood]

Have we made a bad decision playing Buckly tonight. I guess its easy to say it now that we all know we lost. How good would it be if we had rested him. He looked to be tightning up throughout the game tonight plus the long flight.

 

[Jabso]

We desperately need to somehow get our forward line firing again like we used to have this year.
Our delivery to the forward line was the best in the comp.
There seems to be two problems with how our forward line is being played against:
1. Teams put players back there and stay camped there despite the likes of T.Cloke and Taz roaming. While this works against them sometimes it frustrates us and slows us down.
2. Teams play through thier defenders and force our forwards to chase them up the field too much.

Now I usually like to think I can solve these tactical problems, but I'm stuffed if I know how to stop this. I suppose you need to get your defender to respect you and follow you out of the forward line to clear the way for the big blokes. Perhaps we need a defensively minded forward. This could be Lockyer or even Lonie. With all the important loose defenders, we really need to plonk someone on them to take them away from the ball. Like Matty Lokan used to do against the likes of Wanganeen, R.Smith.

YES WE NEED A PLAYER LIKE LOKAN!
MATTY LOKAN!

 

[DJ Black @ White Blood]

Part of the problem is a reaction to our "gameplan" early last year, when we were rubbish, and we refused to give up the ball altogether and never went long, even when Rocca was fit.

Now we back ourselves to get a result by bombing it in to Rocca. Troble is, Rocca's crap and there are no crumbers. Near on guaranteed turnover.

Supporters don't want possession first footy and want the coach to take risks. People want possession first footy and don't want us to take risks. Lose lose situation really!

As with all things, it's a balance issue. We had the balance early on in the year, but have lost a bit of form. The good news is, having a bit of form six weeks out from the real deal is nigh on worthless.

We almost scalped the supposed benchmark, and defence aside, I reckon we have plenty of improvement in attack. Relax!

Figjam, surly your not telling me Rocca is crap are you, thats a bit harsh. Sure hes going through a bad patch lately but mate he is likly to star in the finals. When Rocca is on hes bloody brilliant

 

[Jabso]

Rocca is not crap we need to get our forward line's mojo back and not allow him to be double teamed. Too many defenders leave Tarrant or even Didak/Lockyer alone to roam free and stand in front of Rocca.

 

[Drizt]

Very well said.

 

[Drizt]

Very well said. JAJH

 

[FIGJAM]

Figjam, surly your not telling me Rocca is crap are you, thats a bit harsh. Sure hes going through a bad patch lately but mate he is likly to star in the finals. When Rocca is on hes bloody brilliant

Form related comment. He can be good. Nay...he BETTER be good!

 

[JAJH]

An intersting statistic to note:
In the last 6 weeks Pies record has been 4 losses and 2 wins
ROCCA has kicked 10 goals (195cm/105kgs) Zero goals tonight
TARRANT has kicked 8 goals (193cm/94kg) Zero goals tonight
DIDAK has kicked 12 goals. (182cm/84kg) 2 goals tonight from a total of 7 team goals.
It doesn't really say a lot for the big guys who are paid grand sums of money.

 

[CarnthePies]

JAJH writes what we all think, good job!

 

[jefffff34]

An intersting statistic to note:
In the last 6 weeks Pies record has been 4 losses and 2 wins
ROCCA has kicked 10 goals (195cm/105kgs) Zero goals tonight
TARRANT has kicked 8 goals (193cm/94kg) Zero goals tonight
DIDAK has kicked 12 goals. (182cm/84kg) 2 goals tonight from a total of 7 team goals.
It doesn't really say a lot for the big guys who are paid grand sums of money.

I wouldn't have minded Fraser ****ing handballing to Rocca running into the open goal in the 2nd quarter.

 

[Coin_Toss]

Didak plays too far up the ground for my liking, he should play further deep where he can make more impact. Ala Daicos.

 

[crows_4_life]

i think it wouldn't have mattered if both teams had a j.brown and a barry hall in their forward line last night!! both teams flooded i think it was a terrible game to watch, being there myself i think alot of other adelaide fans like myself were relieved with getting the 4 points not so much happy!!

where do u all think tarrant is at?? will he be at collingwood next year?? if i was MM i'd trade him to carlton, essendon, hawthorn etc. for a high draft pick, as is the depth in this years draft

 

[Murray]

JAJH writes what we all think, good job!

Does he?

 

[loki04]

Why would we trade Tarrant he does alot more in our team than kick goals also if you are only going to go on goals kick it is very misleading on how a forward is going Tarrant has had more shots on goal than rocca , more marks more kicks , more handballs , more tackles , more goal assists but has been inaccurate in front of goals that is where Rocca is better and it hides how poor he has been for the last 2 months. At least Taz when he is having an off night he still gets a kick and helps bring his team mates into the play.

 

[Barge]

1) Agree wholeheartedly with Hoggy!

I destroyed my Daughter's Wiggles Lounge over this error!

2) Would we get an early draft pick from Carlton, Essendon or Hawthorn for Taz?

 

[Jabso]

Why would we trade Tarrant he does alot more in our team than kick goals also if you are only going to go on goals kick it is very misleading on how a forward is going Tarrant has had more shots on goal than rocca , more marks more kicks , more handballs , more tackles , more goal assists but has been inaccurate in front of goals that is where Rocca is better and it hides how poor he has been for the last 2 months. At least Taz when he is having an off night he still gets a kick and helps bring his team mates into the play.

Exactly!

A 14 possesion, 0 goals 3 behinds, with 3 or so goal assists and around 10 marks is better than 8 possies, 4 marks 4 goals. Tarrant is an integral part to our gameplan, and even when playing poor he contributes. Rocca at full forward does not do this.

It may sound complicated but I think we should try Buckley full forward, Rocca forward pocket of sorts, leading a bit longer, T.Cloke CHF and Tarrant HFF/Wing like he has been that past few weeks.

It would be easier to get our rotations going on in the forward line like in our "golden period" earlier in the season. If T.Cloke had a smaller player on him he would dwarf him deep in the forward line. Rocca and Tarrant would take turns leading and cover each other. Like I have said in a previous thread the oppo aren't respecting our leads and/or keep players back.

This may sound like rocket surgery but the smaller players, besides perhaps Didak need to camp themselves forward of the wings and get cheap but dangerous possesions. Force them to be accountable and take the backmen out of the backline freeing up Rocca and Tarrant.

 

[gormanisahack]

Exactly!

A 14 possesion, 0 goals 3 behinds, with 3 or so goal assists and around 10 marks is better than 8 possies, 4 marks 4 goals. Tarrant is an integral part to our gameplan, and even when playing poor he contributes. Rocca at full forward does not do this.

It may sound complicated but I think we should try Buckley full forward, Rocca forward pocket of sorts, leading a bit longer, T.Cloke CHF and Tarrant HFF/Wing like he has been that past few weeks.

It would be easier to get our rotations going on in the forward line like in our "golden period" earlier in the season. If T.Cloke had a smaller player on him he would dwarf him deep in the forward line. Rocca and Tarrant would take turns leading and cover each other. Like I have said in a previous thread the oppo aren't respecting our leads and/or keep players back.

This may sound like rocket surgery but the smaller players, besides perhaps Didak need to camp themselves forward of the wings and get cheap but dangerous possesions. Force them to be accountable and take the backmen out of the backline freeing up Rocca and Tarrant.

i like the sound of that. Buckley leading out of the goalsquare from full-foward can be very dnagerous i think. using rocca as from a foward pocket would be smart. with opponents having to worry about bucks and not doouble team the roc. T.cloke can start to mould his game on the Rocca of 2002,2003 and still have taz leading up the wings and setting up the foward thrust, taz has great skills(apart from goalkicking) and delivers the ball into our foward-line just as well as anybody does in our team. Having dids and l.davis either at these blokes feet and or leading up the ground with their pace and marking ability for small blokes. also i beleive with bucks aging rusling can start to fill his role, with explosive pace out of the goal square...