Opinion Game plan changes for 2013

[geelong_crazy26]

things need to be tweaked and altered next year, mainly our defensive work with and without the ball has been very ordinary at times.. also our work in defense has been supsect at times

Our midfield needs to become better at getting into contested situations and then spreading the ball out, we actually won the contested possesion count on the weekend, but too often what happened was that we got our hands on the ball and one of two things happened, we handpassed and the ball was smothered or intercepted and a quick turnover resulted, or we bombed the ball forward blindy and turned it over to a outnumbered situation, both where a big part of fremantles defensive planning and it worked like a gem

we need to be able to when we get the ball have our players either in extremely close to be able to recieve and rapidly fire it around and work it through the initial cluster of 5-7 players around the fall of the ball then break through the outer layer of press

we also need to spread much better then we have been doing, one thing i notice when we spread that it isnt in a defensive style, when our players spread they often spread into the middle of the ground on their own, if you want to spread into the middle of the ground on your own and the ball gets turned over, its goodnight... if you spread into the corridor with 2-3 players working into that area with you, then if there is a interception, you are often able to creative a stoppage or work it back, too often i feel we dont spread and carry with enough numbers after we win a clearance to be potent enough and deliver the ball as pressure free into the forward 50, to do this we need numbers of 2-3 around the ball especially when switching into the middle

you take a look at the best sides of this year, they all move the ball in waves or packs of 2-4 players to be able to restrict a turn over and also move it quick and pressure free up forward, something i think we can work on over the pre season

we need to also tinker a little with our defensive 50 set up, too often are we getting opened up into space in the pockets and around the 40-50m arc, our back six is probably the best in the AFL at intercepting high incoming kicks into the defensive 50, but it struggles somewhat defending on the lead and into open space, where as i think hawthorn the way they structure is quite the opposite

i think it is largely a matter of getting better defensive positioning drifting back from the midfielders and especially the ruckman who i dont think was good at this at all this season.. but with good reason and understanding given west carried the duty alone for the majority of the season

i will leave it at that for now..

what are some of your suggestions?

 

[rooie]

what we need to do is not try and dispose of the ball, that is the tactic these days. Pick it up, wait for the tackle, then drop it and keep doing that until someone can clear it out.

Where we have gone wrong is disposing of the ball under pressure, which leads to a turn over. Our opposition dont try and get a handpass or kick away they just drop it when tackled so they or a team mate can pick it up again and get the clearance as holding the ball doesn't exist any more....

 

[Vdubs]

what we need to do is not try and dispose of the ball, that is the tactic these days. Pick it up, wait for the tackle, then drop it and keep doing that until someone can clear it out.

Where we have gone wrong is disposing of the ball under pressure, which leads to a turn over. Our opposition dont try and get a handpass or kick away they just drop it when tackled so they or a team mate can pick it up again and get the clearance as holding the ball doesn't exist any more....

is this facetious, or are you serious?

 

[The rabbi]

is this facetious, or are you serious?

Could not possibly be serious.
But then again, this is Big Footy.

 

[iameviljez]

we also need to spread much better then we have been doing, one thing i notice when we spread that it isnt in a defensive style, when our players spread they often spread into the middle of the ground on their own, if you want to spread into the middle of the ground on your own and the ball gets turned over, its goodnight... if you spread into the corridor with 2-3 players working into that area with you, then if there is a interception, you are often able to creative a stoppage or work it back, too often i feel we dont spread and carry with enough numbers after we win a clearance to be potent enough and deliver the ball as pressure free into the forward 50, to do this we need numbers of 2-3 around the ball especially when switching into the middle

you take a look at the best sides of this year, they all move the ball in waves or packs of 2-4 players to be able to restrict a turn over and also move it quick and pressure free up forward, something i think we can work on over the pre season

This is exactly it. I think we're still a very good side in close when the ball is in dispute (particularly when it is in the air), but our ability to find space with the ball in hand is really ordinary. Two things stand out to me;

Less predictable ball movement - meaning, principally, lowering the eyes and remembering to be aware of options that aren't directly in front of us. Too often against Freo we played the game as a series of long kicks up the line, and Freo just picked us off. There's still a place for not hugging the boundary line in footy, but in order to do this you need to kick around the zone rather than trying to bomb through the centre like we used to.

Harder running when in 'spread' - as you picked up earlier. More pace wouldn't hurt, either.

 

[J Squad]

As was mentioned in the Freo review thread, we were missing SJ, Menzel, Varcoe and Wojo who are among our most creative and unpredictable players which made us easy to coach against on the night. That perceived pressure that Freo created along with the slowing down of Corey, Bartel and Chapman at contests occurred in the quick kicks to no one. We just need to inject those dedicated outside players for next year and we will have the balance right.

 

[pinion]

the main thing i would LOVE to see is players like bartel and corey given defensive midfield roles against the opposition's best mids. taylor hunt tried gallantly this year, but i think bartel and corey both have the smarts to stop key opponents and hurt them the other way, as both have proven in key games previously.

the other thing that strikes me is the organisation of the back 6. on paper we have a very solid defence, but at times this year it has been inept when the ball's been coming in quickly. the personnel is there (taylor, lonergan, enright, mackie are all A-graders).

the forward line is functioning quite well - a confident hawkins for a full year should kick 80+, with good support from menzel, johnson, and which ever 2nd tall and small forward combinations we go for. looking forward to the west/vardy tag team rucking and going forward

 

[geelong_crazy26]

the main thing i would LOVE to see is players like bartel and corey given defensive midfield roles against the opposition's best mids. taylor hunt tried gallantly this year, but i think bartel and corey both have the smarts to stop key opponents and hurt them the other way, as both have proven in key games previously.

the other thing that strikes me is the organisation of the back 6. on paper we have a very solid defence, but at times this year it has been inept when the ball's been coming in quickly. the personnel is there (taylor, lonergan, enright, mackie are all A-graders).

the forward line is functioning quite well - a confident hawkins for a full year should kick 80+, with good support from menzel, johnson, and which ever 2nd tall and small forward combinations we go for. looking forward to the west/vardy tag team rucking and going forward

the back six are very strong contested players and intercepting high kicks and marks is the number one strength, sides have figured out this is a big no no against geelong, avoid at all costs kicking the ball long and high into the forward line unless it is honoring a lead or to the pocket, teams are able to create space in their forward line too often and it has killed us all year, what it is exactly im in only hypothesizing, i would love to watch some more footage of games this year to look at it, in particular vs collingwood and west coast... i think it has just as much to do with the defensive work of the midfield as much as the way the backline is able to block space

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Like all Teams we do have some areas of opportunity. The three main areas I see that will occupy the MC time are:
> Midfield depth - we need to ensure we have 6-7 players of quality who can rotate thru the midfield - this was our strength in 2007&9 in particular. We need the right mix of inside and outside from this group as well.
I am assuming our Rucks can be covered from Westy,Vardy,Dawson and Orren although it may be prudent to recruit a developing Ruck
> Defending small forwards - I think this has been our achilles heel for several years now - look at the damage Walters / Frodo did as well as coping with Betts/Milne etc. With Josh and Boris getting older and slower maybe Guthrie and another?
> Small Forward - Stokes has been great but there is room for a crumber with genuine speed - maybe Eardley or McCarthy or can Motlop fill this role? We seem to rely on slower smart types like Chappy and Stokes, could be time to inject some pace.
We are well placed assuming the young guys we have blooded come along and the likes of Menzel and Varcoe come back fit and healthy. Bring on 2013 !!

 

[magicmarker]

what we need to do is not try and dispose of the ball, that is the tactic these days. Pick it up, wait for the tackle, then drop it and keep doing that until someone can clear it out.

Where we have gone wrong is disposing of the ball under pressure, which leads to a turn over. Our opposition dont try and get a handpass or kick away they just drop it when tackled so they or a team mate can pick it up again and get the clearance as holding the ball doesn't exist any more....

I actually agree with this.

The umpires have really let this go, especially on the weekend, and as we saw with the Pods tackle that lead to a Ballantyne goal at the other end, it is very costly. Going in hard to tackle effectively takes the tackler out of the contest. In a situation where you don't have numbers, this gives the opposition side the opportunity to take the ball away under no pressure. The umps *must* get back to honouring the tackler, otherwise we would be stupid to keep doing what we are doing - perhaps the AFL can clarify what the rules are around incorrect disposal.

Perhaps more of our players need to take note of Varcoe's work - he tends not to dive in for the tackle, but rather stay in the contest and apply defensive pressure on the player/s with the ball. I think this is going to be more the template for the future, although it would be nice to complement with Max Rooke Mk II.

The other thing, Hawkins needs to start acting up for frees. I hate saying this, because I *really* hate this kind of thing, but if he is getting shepherding out of a marking contest, he needs to make it very clear to the umps. If they still won't do anything about it, then Scott needs to raise it to the AFL. The Dockers have the template now to stop key forwards, I expect it to become common place next year.

Great thread BTW.

 

[Partridge]

the main thing i would LOVE to see is players like bartel and corey given defensive midfield roles against the opposition's best mids. taylor hunt tried gallantly this year, but i think bartel and corey both have the smarts to stop key opponents and hurt them the other way, as both have proven in key games previously.

Sorry, but in this I couldn't disagree more. Corey is barely fast enough to get his own ball, he would have no hope whatsoever of stopping an opposition midfielder. He has never been good defensively even in his best years, he's not going to wind the clock back now.

Bartel needs to worry about getting the ball himself too. As lauded as his stopping job on Hayes was, that was 3 years ago. I'm not sure if he's capable of tagging full time, besides which Taylor Hunt has clearly been earmarked for that role and has done it pretty well, as well as improving all the time.

The midfield to me is clearly our biggest weakness, followed by pace and all around output of our small forwards. Fix those two up and we'll be very competitive again.

 

[Senatorguesty]

Sorry, but in this I couldn't disagree more. Corey is barely fast enough to get his own ball, he would have no hope whatsoever of stopping an opposition midfielder. He has never been good defensively even in his best years, he's not going to wind the clock back now.

Bartel needs to worry about getting the ball himself too. As lauded as his stopping job on Hayes was, that was 3 years ago. I'm not sure if he's capable of tagging full time, besides which Taylor Hunt has clearly been earmarked for that role and has done it pretty well, as well as improving all the time.

The midfield to me is clearly our biggest weakness, followed by pace and all around output of our small forwards. Fix those two up and we'll be very competitive again.

I agree re: Taylor Hunt.
I think he did the just superbly especially considering it was his first year of doing it.
Will become a good little player I reckon, tagger who gets a bit of the ball and can kick goals, remind you of anyone?

 

[iameviljez]

The other thing, Hawkins needs to start acting up for frees. I hate saying this, because I *really* hate this kind of thing, but if he is getting shepherding out of a marking contest, he needs to make it very clear to the umps. If they still won't do anything about it, then Scott needs to raise it to the AFL. The Dockers have the template now to stop key forwards, I expect it to become common place next year.

Have to admit, I know you don't like this idea either, but I really don't like it, to the point of not agreeing with it. I think that a lot of this shepherding has come about because we're bombing it high and long, and expecting Hawkins to come from three-deep. This is probably because we don't have the pace in the middle to burst through and hit him one-out - where he is virtually unstoppable.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Have to admit, I know you don't like this idea either, but I really don't like it, to the point of not agreeing with it. I think that a lot of this shepherding has come about because we're bombing it high and long, and expecting Hawkins to come from three-deep. This is probably because we don't have the pace in the middle to burst through and hit him one-out - where he is virtually unstoppable.

That is true, and there's no doubt our delivery into f50 must improve.

But it's also true the Freo defenders were tunneling him and blocking him from jumping all night, I sat on the front row on the fence directly on the 50 flank so I had an extremely good view of what was going on. Given the current rules that don't allow arm chops, and the fact that with his big frame once Hawkins jumps the defender can't plausibly access the ball to spoil without infringing, blocking him from jumping in the first place is going to become every team's key tactic against him so we do need to a) counter it tactically and b) bleat long and hard to the umpires/afl about it.

 

[magicmarker]

Have to admit, I know you don't like this idea either, but I really don't like it, to the point of not agreeing with it. I think that a lot of this shepherding has come about because we're bombing it high and long, and expecting Hawkins to come from three-deep. This is probably because we don't have the pace in the middle to burst through and hit him one-out - where he is virtually unstoppable.

Yeah, you are right, we did play into their hands with the continual long bombs, but I'm not sure we could ever hit him one-out as he couldn't run to space as he was blocked, and if they tried to put it on his head they were screening him out of it. Umpires should have called it early as the first couple were blatant. Not sure there is an easy solution to this one apart from finding other avenues to goal. We may have seen a hint of a plan B when J Hunt was told to go for goal from outside 50, we may see this a bit more next year to drag the defenders out of the forward 50 arc.

 

[iameviljez]

That is true, and there's no doubt our delivery into f50 must improve.

But it's also true the Freo defenders were tunneling him and blocking him from jumping all night, I sat on the front row on the fence directly on the 50 flank so I had an extremely good view of what was going on. Given the current rules that don't allow arm chops, and the fact that with his big frame once Hawkins jumps the defender can't plausibly access the ball to spoil without infringing, blocking him from jumping in the first place is going to become every team's key tactic against him so we do need to a) counter it tactically and b) bleat long and hard to the umpires/afl about it.

It's a dangerous notion - not from a footballing sense, but in terms of that if you get a reputation as an actor or a whinger, it is very very hard to drop. It took a long time for Matthew Lloyd to be remembered as a centurion full-forward again and I don't want that to happen to Tomahawk.

 

[magicmarker]

It's a dangerous notion - not from a footballing sense, but in terms of that if you get a reputation as an actor or a whinger, it is very very hard to drop. It took a long time for Matthew Lloyd to be remembered as a centurion full-forward again and I don't want that to happen to Tomahawk.

Yeah, I'm not suggesting taking dives or anything drastic, but at least highlighting it. Even giving away a couple of free kicks - push the blocking player out of the way - at least get the umpire thinking about it.

 

[rooie]

is this facetious, or are you serious?

haha, im not serious, but frustrated by the lack of reward for our intensity when we did bring it this year. to many times over the weekend the umps just let the play roll on, not rewarding tacklers and letting scrums develop. i dont like it, and from watching it feels that we tend to actually dispose of the ball quickly (which has been successful in the past for us) but this results in turn overs becuase of the numbers around the ball. Other teams dont try and get the ball out just keep the scrum moving, so all our effort to tackle goes for naught. so either we ask the AFL to clarify the rule and adjust our tactics or we start 'dropping the ball' whenever we get breathed on like a few other teams seem to.

 

[footscore]

Matt Rendell formerly the Adelaide recruiter stated this morning on 5AA that teams like Hawthorn, Sydney and Fremantle had been preparing for a while to use the flood and put teams off guard.

I did not hear the interview but we certainly didn't cope well last week and he said that teams had gotten use to the kicking game.
I'm very surprised that Chris Scott would not have prepared for the flood like we saw in 2010 Preliminary final.
Ross Lyon of all coaches a well known exponent of this game style

 

[Belisarius]

Things that could make us a more dangerous opponent -

1. Greater leg speed - we get back Varcoe and Murdoch will be better with more game time. Helps us out re the spread and tackling and forward pressure. Motlop will also be better with another pre-season and senior game time. If we can get McCarthy and Smedts in the side - we will have some real leg speed.

2. Better rucks - with Simpson, West and Vardy getting more game time - I think the ruck situation will be better.

3. More contested and ball magnet mids. With SJ back in the side we have a better midfield. Maybe Schroder, Simpkin and Stringer will help this situation in 2013.

I think we likely have the players to bolster our weaknesses - so will be a better side next season. The game style/plan is fine if we have the players on the field to put it into practise.

 

[meto]

A third marking medium tall for the forwardline, I'm hoping for Kersten to fill that role, he's a booming kick and has X factor all over him.
We 'll get Menzel back but Kersten is that little bit bigger and imposing on the defense, perfect for a HFF.

Thing is, if either Hawkins or Pods are having an off day, they'll double team the one that's playing well, with Kersten in they're still stretched giving chopout to the others.
He's just got that light-heavyweight size to him that fits for a lethal Flanker.

 

[fpm84]

To those that think Kersten will get a good run next year: which two player from this year's forward line won't be in the side next year, assuming Menzel is back and fit too?

 

[meto]

To those that think Kersten will get a good run next year: which two player from this year's forward line won't be in the side next year, assuming Menzel is back and fit too?

A small. We've had to many for to little of late.

 

[iameviljez]

A small. We've had to many for to little of late.

Kersten, Pods, Hawkins, Menzel + a resting ruckman is surely far too tall, though? Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Kersten but I can only find room for him in a side with an injury.

 

[iameviljez]

To those that think Kersten will get a good run next year: which two player from this year's forward line won't be in the side next year, assuming Menzel is back and fit too?

I would probably say, as much as it pains me, the J-Pod. He's such a crash-and-bash type, and quite heavy-set, so I'm struggling to see him really string some games together this year. He never really managed to get 2012 up and running after he dislocated his shoulder, and his form seems to suffer through discontinuity.