Geelong and GWS “home” finals

[StackedHunch]

You’re telling people to harden up but won’t accept being told to harden up and play finals at another venue or more to the point (because we have pretty much all gotten to the point - or I know I have - where I don’t really care where finals are played) you won’t accept Collingwood fans being told to harden up and play a game down the highway every two years

Oh how very chivalrous of you, defending the weak like that.

You really are like a modern Robin Hood, aren’t you:

If the world had more people like you, there’d be no need for heaven, we’d already be there.

Again, you're getting very uppity. If it wasn't for Melbourne taxpayers (and AFL club members) Kardinia Park would still be the same old rubbish tin can it was in the 90s. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. The league is more important than your backwater town.

 

[joe444]

Welcome to the 21st century. You can have your taxpayer funded stadium during H&A,

Your club brand can always hand back the $35m in government funding your club's latest meanderings have cost the rest of us. And on a facility which, unlike GMHBA, the taxpayer doesn't even own or run at a profit.

So harden up, Mr Taxpayer, you're doing fine on the deal.

And basically blackmailing the cash-strapped Tasmanian government (and taxpayers) for that extra $9 million a year to sponsor you, even after you grifted $13.5 million from them just to play there? How's your sudden passion for fiscal responsibility going now?

 

[StackedHunch]

Your club brand can always hand back the $35m in government funding your club's latest meanderings have cost the rest of us. And on a facility which, unlike GMHBA, the taxpayer doesn't even own or run at a profit.

So harden up, Mr Taxpayer, you're doing fine on the deal.

And basically blackmailing the cash-strapped Tasmanian government (and taxpayers) for that extra $9 million a year to sponsor you, even after you grifted $13.5 million from them just to play there? How's your sudden passion for fiscal responsibility going now?

The taxpayer gets nothing back from GMHBA - that's why you like playing there. Clean stadium. Half a billion dollars for a ground that offers SFA to the public.

The KCC has had less than 10% the government funding, but will provide much needed facilities the community can actually use. And it'll return the same gate takings to the public as GMHBA.

As for Tassie - we take in I think $300k a game to play each H&A there. The rest of the deal is our major sponsorship, which we'd get anywhere else (realistically, we'd get more - the figure hasn't moved much since the noughties, and we're a much stronger brand than back then). The amount of direct tourism covers the investment 5 times over. The enormous indirect tourism the club has spawned there is gravy, as is bringing AFL matches to a neglected population (who'd find your complaints of driving an hour down the road laughable).

So no, Tassie has zero comparison with your obscenely overdeveloped, poorly made stadium.

 

[kreuze_missile]

So, as long as an AFL venue is somewhere between 14,850 sqm and 28,675sqm it's considered OK?

Below is a to-scale example of how ridiculous those rules are.

 

[Whiskers]

So, as long as an AFL venue is somewhere between 14,850 sqm and 28,675sqm it's considered OK?

Below is a to-scale example of how ridiculous those rules are.

View attachment 2416103

Yeah that’s right… rules.

Why is one oval more correct than the other? Do we consider a cricket ground the right thing for AFL?

 

[PhatBoy]

Again, you're getting very uppity. If it wasn't for Melbourne taxpayers (and AFL club members) Kardinia Park would still be the same old rubbish tin can it was in the 90s. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. The league is more important than your backwater town.

What am I getting uppity about?

‘Hey Collingwood, play a game in Geelong every two years.’

Oh yes it’s very snide.

My backwater town? I live in Blayney in central New South Wales mate. The league isn’t more important than anything, Mussolini.

 

[PhatBoy]

The taxpayer gets nothing back from GMHBA - that's why you like playing there. Clean stadium. Half a billion dollars for a ground that offers SFA to the public.

The KCC has had less than 10% the government funding, but will provide much needed facilities the community can actually use. And it'll return the same gate takings to the public as GMHBA.

As for Tassie - we take in I think $300k a game to play each H&A there. The rest of the deal is our major sponsorship, which we'd get anywhere else (realistically, we'd get more - the figure hasn't moved much since the noughties, and we're a much stronger brand than back then). The amount of direct tourism covers the investment 5 times over. The enormous indirect tourism the club has spawned there is gravy, as is bringing AFL matches to a neglected population (who'd find your complaints of driving an hour down the road laughable).

So no, Tassie has zero comparison with your obscenely overdeveloped, poorly made stadium.

‘That’s why you like playing there.’



Have a listen to yourself

We like playing there because it’s been our home ground for a century and is smack bang in the middle of the city of Geelong and our city is - wait for it - Geelong.

I’d say that is closer to why we like our team playing there, than because of what it does or doesn’t offer the taxpayer in terms of bang for buck.

 

[PhatBoy]

So, as long as an AFL venue is somewhere between 14,850 sqm and 28,675sqm it's considered OK?

Below is a to-scale example of how ridiculous those rules are.

View attachment 2416103

Yes.

Why don’t you write a sternly worded letter to all of the following:

Cricket boards around the world requesting that all grounds and pitches be identical. Astroturf pitches with the same dimensions.

All professional golf tours to be played on identical courses. Indoors. No breeze.

All tennis tournaments to be staged on the same surfaces.

All soccer matches to be played on the same sized fields.

All rugby league and union fields to have identical in-goal areas.

All Motorsport tracks to be on identical circuits

Keep us posted on how you go.

 

[StackedHunch]

‘That’s why you like playing there.’



Have a listen to yourself

We like playing there because it’s been our home ground for a century and is smack bang in the middle of the city of Geelong and our city is - wait for it - Geelong.

I’d say that is closer to why we like our team playing there, than because of what it does or doesn’t offer the taxpayer in terms of bang for buck.

You wouldn't like playing there if you had to pay your way.

 

[PhatBoy]

You wouldn't like playing there if you had to pay your way.

just get some more gambling sponsors and ruin a few hundred thousand more lives and that should cover it I guess.

I don’t have to pay for it. I’m a fan of the club.

Who would have thought, the fifth or sixth biggest spectator league on the planet had to find a way to balance its books. Amazing. What’s next, they have to discover what goes in pies?

 

[StackedHunch]

just get some more gambling sponsors and ruin a few hundred thousand more lives and that should cover it I guess.

Which windmills are you tilting at there, champ?

I don’t have to pay for it. I’m a fan of the club.

Who would have thought, the fifth or sixth biggest spectator league on the planet had to find a way to balance its books. Amazing. What’s next, they have to discover what goes in pies?

That's my point, dude. The rest of the Melbourne clubs (and the SA/WA clubs) have to pay for these enormously expensive pieces of infrastructure. Somehow Geelong doesn’t. Not a cent. Yet you have the gall to sook when the biggest games of the year are played at the purpose built venue.

 

[PhatBoy]

Which windmills are you tilting at there, champ?



That's my point, dude. The rest of the Melbourne clubs (and the SA/WA clubs) have to pay for these enormously expensive pieces of infrastructure. Somehow Geelong doesn’t. Not a cent. Yet you have the gall to sook when the biggest games of the year are played at the purpose built venue.

what Melbourne clubs have to pay for these pieces of infrastructure? What SA or WA clubs have to pay for them?

They don’t.

The SA government poured $550 million into redeveloping Adelaide Oval.

The WA government - and remember, both these governments have significantly less taxpayers than Victoria - paid over $1.5 billion.

‘Dude.’

What, did you think the Dockers and Eagles did a quick whip around with Matthew Pavlich’s bucket hat after training and build it with a handful of fivers and some gold coins?

F**k me drunk.

The AFL (or VFL) paid for the Great Southern Stand when it was built. The last upgrades to the MCG were completed through the MCC and the Victorian government.


And what am I tilting at ‘champ’?

The AFL is more than rich enough through its colossal revenue streams of TV rights deals and gambling agreements - it is propping up a women’s league that haemorrhages money each year. I’m pretty sure it can afford to send the magpies to Kardinia Park every second year without it causing global financial meltdown like the one you’re having merely thinking about it.

 

[StackedHunch]

what Melbourne clubs have to pay for these pieces of infrastructure? What SA or WA clubs have to pay for them?

They don’t.

The SA government poured $550 million into redeveloping Adelaide Oval.

The WA government - and remember, both these governments have significantly less taxpayers than Victoria - paid over $1.5 billion.

‘Dude.’

What, did you think the Dockers and Eagles did a quick whip around with Matthew Pavlich’s bucket hat after training and build it with a handful of fivers and some gold coins?

F**k me drunk.

The AFL (or VFL) paid for the Great Southern Stand when it was built. The last upgrades to the MCG were completed through the MCC and the Victorian government.


And what am I tilting at ‘champ’?

The AFL is more than rich enough through its colossal revenue streams of TV rights deals and gambling agreements - it is propping up a women’s league that haemorrhages money each year. I’m pretty sure it can afford to send the magpies to Kardinia Park every second year without it causing global financial meltdown like the one you’re having merely thinking about it.

And all those clubs contribute to the infrastructure by gate takings. WA and SA tickets are very expensive as a consequence. MCG is cheaper because many clubs share the load (and, being older, construction were not as obscene).

But apparently Geelong should not only continue to be exempt from contributing tp infrastructure in H&A, you should also be exempt from contributing to finals.

 

[PhatBoy]

And all those clubs contribute to the infrastructure by gate takings. WA and SA tickets are very expensive as a consequence. MCG is cheaper because many clubs share the load (and, being older, construction were not as obscene).

But apparently Geelong should not only continue to be exempt from contributing tp infrastructure in H&A, you should also be exempt from contributing to finals.

So hang on, you’re saying that the ground that we’ve had the most impact on in terms of taxpayer impact, we should use less to contribute to it?

I’ve just shown you that the MCG in the past 30 years has had no input from clubs, and relatively little from taxpayers. KP has had a lot from taxpayers.

Then I showed you that the SA and WA clubs had huge input to their grounds from taxpayer.

So your reply is ‘but they contribute to making money back because they have more games there and use those stadiums more.’

But the whole angle of your argument is ‘you should use your stadium less’

You’ve completely forgotten what you’re arguing now.

 

[StackedHunch]

So hang on, you’re saying that the ground that we’ve had the most impact on in terms of taxpayer impact, we should use less to contribute to it?

I’ve just shown you that the MCG in the past 30 years has had no input from clubs, and relatively little from taxpayers. KP has had a lot from taxpayers.

Then I showed you that the SA and WA clubs had huge input to their grounds from taxpayer.

So your reply is ‘but they contribute to making money back because they have more games there and use those stadiums more.’

But the whole angle of your argument is ‘you should use your stadium less’

You’ve completely forgotten what you’re arguing now.

You speak a lot, with very little logic.

You can play as many games as you want at KP, but when you don't pay to use the stadium, you're not contributing.

The other stadia were all funded in part by debt (some had government grants, other government loans, others PPP). Hence they use gate takings to pay down said debt.

Honestly though, not sure you're capable of grasping such straightforward arguments. That taxpayer money would be better spent on education than stadia in backwaters.

 

[PhatBoy]

You speak a lot, with very little logic.

You can play as many games as you want at KP, but when you don't pay to use the stadium, you're not contributing.

The other stadia were all funded in part by debt (some had government grants, other government loans, others PPP). Hence they use gate takings to pay down said debt.

Honestly though, not sure you're capable of grasping such straightforward arguments. That taxpayer money would be better spent on education than stadia in backwaters.

The government makes money the same way they make it through a Collingwood game at the mcg. Through payroll taxes and ticket taxes etc.
The local government and businesses make money from the fact that it’s a huge event any time a big team does happen to play in Geelong. What makes their value inherently any lower than their Melbourne counterparts? They pay taxes too.

It’s sport genius. It’s grown men chasing a ball around. Any money invested in it is better spent anywhere else. You have a Neo Nazi leading rallies through your state capital in the early hours of the morning. There are a lot of important things going on in the world that aren’t sport related while money gets spent on sport. But that’s how it is.

You still haven’t provided one coherent argument, especially now that the stadium HAS been upgraded (some of these arguments might have been reasonable beforehand but not now) as to why other sides can play where they want during the home and away season but we can’t.

 

[StackedHunch]

The government makes money the same way they make it through a Collingwood game at the mcg. Through payroll taxes and ticket taxes etc.
The local government and businesses make money from the fact that it’s a huge event any time a big team does happen to play in Geelong. What makes their value inherently any lower than their Melbourne counterparts? They pay taxes too.

It’s sport genius. It’s grown men chasing a ball around. Any money invested in it is better spent anywhere else. You have a Neo Nazi leading rallies through your state capital in the early hours of the morning. There are a lot of important things going on in the world that aren’t sport related while money gets spent on sport. But that’s how it is.

You still haven’t provided one coherent argument, especially now that the stadium HAS been upgraded (some of these arguments might have been reasonable beforehand but not now) as to why other sides can play where they want during the home and away season but we can’t.

You're grasping at straws. You don't pay to use facilities, and no amount of fans stopping in Geelong CBD to buy a crap pie is going to compensate taxpayers for your lack of contribution.

Home and away, feel free to free ride at KP. Just don't get your knickers in a knot when the business matches are played in serious stadia, not white elephants with misshapen grounds that sell nothing but shitty Marathon dim sims.

 

[PhatBoy]

You're grasping at straws. You don't pay to use facilities, and no amount of fans stopping in Geelong CBD to buy a crap pie is going to compensate taxpayers for your lack of contribution.

Home and away, feel free to free ride at KP. Just don't get your knickers in a knot when the business matches are played in serious stadia, not white elephants with misshapen grounds that sell nothing but shitty Marathon dim sims.

It’s literally more or less the same deal. The revenue sharing is the same: Collingwood don’t pay a flat rental fee to use the MCG, not based on any arrangement I can find, the financial benefits to both club and venue come through revenue sharing - exactly the same as what happens down the highway. Geelong does better out of it because we don’t have to share our venue with anyone else like Collingwood does and we can have the best of it all the time.

‘Get my knickers in a twist.’ I’m literally saying I don’t give a shit where finals are played. Again, you’ve forgotten what you’re arguing.

 

[My_Username]

Finals will be played at the MCG come hell or high water. That has always been the case with the exception of when they were played at Waverley to my knowledge, and one at Docklands and a single one at KP. Same has gone for all teams.

I don’t see why we need to have our home and away games played there. The club doesn’t want to and a vast majority of our fans don’t either.

Either the club wants to play home games at the MCG, or they're hopelessly incompetent.

Every major ground upgrade comes with minimum guaranteed 'content' (games) to justify the costs.

Tens of millions spent on upgrading KP...All they needed to do was get the AFL to agree to all the home games to be played there.

So as I said, either they don't want to, or they're hopelessly incompetent. (and you can say a lot of things about GFC, but incompetent isn't a word that comes to mind).

They can claim it's out of their hands, and they want to play all their home games in Geelong for PR purposes, but the reality is that if they really wanted it, they'd have it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Either the club wants to play home games at the MCG, or they're hopelessly incompetent.

Every major ground upgrade comes with minimum guaranteed 'content' (games) to justify the costs.

Tens of millions spent on upgrading KP...All they needed to do was get the AFL to agree to all the home games to be played there.

So as I said, either they don't want to, or they're hopelessly incompetent. (and you can say a lot of things about GFC, but incompetent isn't a word that comes to mind).

They can claim it's out of their hands, and they want to play all their home games in Geelong for PR purposes, but the reality is that if they really wanted it, they'd have it.

We’ve pushed for all home games for years, with the caveat that if we don’t get them, obviously it would be preferable that we would like the ones we ARE made to play elsewhere to be the bigger ones.

2019 and 2024 we sent a written submission to the AFL knowing we wouldn’t get all 11 but asking for as many as possible. I think the club knows because of contracts we simply aren’t going to get them, but when the actual coach is consistently sitting in press conferences actually saying the words ‘I’m on record as saying we should be playing all our home games there’ I would think it’s fair to assume that’s the official position of the club.

 

[My_Username]

We’ve pushed for all home games for years, with the caveat that if we don’t get them, obviously it would be preferable that we would like the ones we ARE made to play elsewhere to be the bigger ones.

2019 and 2024 we sent a written submission to the AFL knowing we wouldn’t get all 11 but asking for as many as possible. I think the club knows because of contracts we simply aren’t going to get them, but when the actual coach is consistently sitting in press conferences actually saying the words ‘I’m on record as saying we should be playing all our home games there’ I would think it’s fair to assume that’s the official position of the club.

No, your club has made noises about having all home games at KP for years.

But when it comes to actions, they never seem to take the necessary steps....Such as in the example I gave.

 

[Captain_Bender]

‘That’s why you like playing there.’



Have a listen to yourself

We like playing there because it’s been our home ground for a century and is smack bang in the middle of the city of Geelong and our city is - wait for it - Geelong.

I’d say that is closer to why we like our team playing there, than because of what it does or doesn’t offer the taxpayer in terms of bang for buck.

No it hasn't

 

[PhatBoy]

No it hasn't

Oh sorry, 85 per cent of one

 

[PhatBoy]

No, your club has made noises about having all home games at KP for years.

But when it comes to actions, they never seem to take the necessary steps....Such as in the example I gave.

So officially requesting games isn’t enough. We have to become the AFL and give those games to us.

 

[aCunningPlan]

Well no matter what happens tomorrow night Geelong won't be leaving the state all September now.