Oppo Camp Geelong

[theGav56]

There is no better way for Lyon to stamp his authority on this team than by confronting the Cats in round 1. The upside from a win is pretty big. It will allow Lyon to settle the line-up and give every player that was in the team to have staked a claim as best 22.

I also don't get the feeling that Lyon's gameplan is over complicated, say in the way that Connolly saw things. He seems to be about clarity in the roles players are given, and in game 1, that will be a bonus. For sure he will be finding out which players can actually do that, and who cannot, but it is a squad that already has a bit of maturity about it and the onfield leadership is also pretty good.

He also had St Kilda playing Subiaco well, so it isn't like he needs to come to terms with alien territory.

I think he should be walking away with a win, and will be very unhappy if he doesn't. I am really hoping that no stone is left unturned in the planning for this game, and I can't wait to see the team he selects to get the job done.

Geelong are as tough an asignment as we will get, and maybe they will come over and blow us away, but we do have significant advantages;

• It is at home.
  
• As Premiers the Cats have a shorter preparation, and if it is hot, may struggle.
  
• How we play and line up will be less predictable than how Geelong does, allowing us to plan better.
  
• Geelong's player losses are significant, especially Ottens (giving us an area of the ground we can dominate), and Ling who was still amongst the very best taggers when he retired. For sure others will step up for them, and we'll see how they go.

Really I think we should be going into the season with strong finals ambitions, and playing Geelong round 1 is a dream debut for Lyon.

 

[KePLOW]

You're only as good as your last game and Geelong's was pretty outstanding (Freo's definitely wasn't), so at this early stage I'd be tipping Geelong. However factor in up to 11 changes to the Docker's team, home ground advantage and the Lyon factor and our chances look reasonable enough.

Really tough start with Geelong (H), Sydney (A), Saints (A) and Carlton (H) all in the first five rounds. Will be stoked if we come out 3-2. 4-1 and we can start dreaming of top-4 footy in 2012 (injuries pending).

 

[theGav56]

You're only as good as your last game and Geelong's was pretty outstanding (Freo's definitely wasn't), so at this early stage I'd be tipping Geelong. However factor in up to 11 changes to the Docker's team, home ground advantage and the Lyon factor and our chances look reasonable enough.

Really tough start with Geelong (H), Sydney (A), Saints (A) and Carlton (H) all in the first five rounds. Will be stoked if we come out 3-2. 4-1 and we can start dreaming of top-4 footy in 2012 (injuries pending).

A cliche that is wrong. We are far better than our last game.

I expect us to be pretty competative in all of those games.

 

[Wigarus]

There is no better way for Lyon to stamp his authority on this team than by confronting the Cats in round 1. The upside from a win is pretty big. It will allow Lyon to settle the line-up and give every player that was in the team to have staked a claim as best 22.

I also don't get the feeling that Lyon's gameplan is over complicated, say in the way that Connolly saw things. He seems to be about clarity in the roles players are given, and in game 1, that will be a bonus. For sure he will be finding out which players can actually do that, and who cannot, but it is a squad that already has a bit of maturity about it and the onfield leadership is also pretty good.

He also had St Kilda playing Subiaco well, so it isn't like he needs to come to terms with alien territory.

I think he should be walking away with a win, and will be very unhappy if he doesn't. I am really hoping that no stone is left unturned in the planning for this game, and I can't wait to see the team he selects to get the job done.

Geelong are as tough an asignment as we will get, and maybe they will come over and blow us away, but we do have significant advantages;

• It is at home.
  
• As Premiers the Cats have a shorter preparation, and if it is hot, may struggle.
  
• How we play and line up will be less predictable than how Geelong does, allowing us to plan better.
  
• Geelong's player losses are significant, especially Ottens (giving us an area of the ground we can dominate), and Ling who was still amongst the very best taggers when he retired. For sure others will step up for them, and we'll see how they go.

Really I think we should be going into the season with strong finals ambitions, and playing Geelong round 1 is a dream debut for Lyon.

Don't know if I agree with that, Geelong finished the season with a team strong enough to win a grand final, whereas we still have players that are arguably in our best 10 players that aren't in full training yet.

I do reckon we'll have a red hot crack though.

 

[Wigarus]

You're only as good as your last game and Geelong's was pretty outstanding (Freo's definitely wasn't), so at this early stage I'd be tipping Geelong. However factor in up to 11 changes to the Docker's team, home ground advantage and the Lyon factor and our chances look reasonable enough.

Really tough start with Geelong (H), Sydney (A), Saints (A) and Carlton (H) all in the first five rounds. Will be stoked if we come out 3-2. 4-1 and we can start dreaming of top-4 footy in 2012 (injuries pending).

Weren't we one of the only teams to beat Sydney at the SCG last year?

The only one of those games that I think we might struggle with is the Saints, but all the rest are winnable and we should win them imo.

 

[theGav56]

Don't know if I agree with that, Geelong finished the season with a team strong enough to win a grand final, whereas we still have players that are arguably in our best 10 players that aren't in full training yet.

I do reckon we'll have a red hot crack though.

That team has lost players such as Ottens and Ling*.

I don't think this is an easy game or anything like that. Far from it. But I cannot see a reason why we should be anything but positive about it.

* Just took a look at the Cats Board, and they expect both their forward line and ruck stocks to be missing key personnel. They may struggle to find a second key forward to partner Hawkins with Podsially looking unlikely. And in the ruck they recruited a 30 yr old to help out in Ottens absence. I am sure he can play, but you wouldn't really want to make your debut in an away game against Sandilands, with a midfield still learning about you as a ruckman.

It isn't simply that they have some players missing. For me it provides some strategic opportunities for us to attack Geelong's gameplan, and that is what Lyon brings.

 

[Patty_Moz]

Really tough start with Geelong (H), Sydney (A), Saints (A) and Carlton (H) all in the first five rounds. Will be stoked if we come out 3-2. 4-1 and we can start dreaming of top-4 footy in 2012 (injuries pending).

If you look at our draw atm, tho things do change, this looks like our toughest run of the season and it we can set ourselves up or if we're 0-4 then our season is pretty much shot.

We have the talent to win all these games but will need to play very well to win any of them.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

due to the following factors im expecting a rough start to the year:

1. fyfe has had recent groin surgery and wont have a proper preseason.
2. new game plan, new coach
3. lack of forward fire power

I fully expect geelong to give us a touchup. the players that are gone are covered adequately, they still have many stars in that lineup, I reckon it will get messy

we will be 1-4 after round 5. but i fully expect us to come out in 2013 and really push for the flag whence the game plan is up and going. I think those who are saying we are genuine top four contenders are shrooming

 

[Clay Davis]

Huh? 1-4 would have been unacceptable under Harvey.

 

[BananaOnTheRun]

Says who?

 

[Clay Davis]

Says me. But it's good that the excuses are already being rolled out for a poor start, and the "there's always next year" crew are starting earlier each time.

If the only club we beat in those first five rounds is Brisbane, then how has anything actually changed?

 

[Wigarus]

Says me. But it's good that the excuses are already being rolled out for a poor start, and the "there's always next year" crew are starting earlier each time.

If the only club we beat in those first five rounds is Brisbane, then how has anything actually changed?

If we are 1-4 after 5 rounds then I will be pissed. In the last 2 years we have beaten every one of those teams except St. Kilda and we have their old Senior Coach.

With the coach and squad that we have we should be 4-1 and I completely agree that the excuses this early are pathetic.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Huh? 1-4 would have been unacceptable under Harvey.

If we are 1-4 after 5 rounds then I will be pissed. In the last 2 years we have beaten every one of those teams except St. Kilda and we have their old Senior Coach.

With the coach and squad that we have we should be 4-1 and I completely agree that the excuses this early are pathetic.

call it what you will. I call it not getting my hopes up. If we are 1-4, im going to be pissed as well. I hope to see a future with Ross, but i cant yet let myself believe that we will ever get it together (in my life time). I see brightness in hill, fyfe, barlow and ballantyne, coupled with the fact that our greatest players in pav, sandi and mcpharlin are almost finished..... I guess im just not trying to get to overly excited. but i stand by the fact that i dont think we will be top four. i think 5-8th is more realistic and likely, and i do think 2013 will be a better year than 2012

also, wigarus... do you really think our squad is THAT strong at this point. I can see a lot of gaps in it still as well as some players that probably dont belong on a list. I think it is a work in progress still

 

[Wigarus]

call it what you will. I call it not getting my hopes up. If we are 1-4, im going to be pissed as well. I hope to see a future with Ross, but i cant yet let myself believe that we will ever get it together (in my life time). I see brightness in hill, fyfe, barlow and ballantyne, coupled with the fact that our greatest players in pav, sandi and mcpharlin are almost finished..... I guess im just not trying to get to overly excited. but i stand by the fact that i dont think we will be top four. i think 5-8th is more realistic and likely, and i do think 2013 will be a better year than 2012

also, wigarus... do you really think our squad is THAT strong at this point. I can see a lot of gaps in it still as well as some players that probably dont belong on a list. I think it is a work in progress still

I think people over analyse things. In the last 2 years, the only teams we haven't been able to beat are St. Kilda and Collingwood. I think quality wise in the last 2 years we have gained more than we have lost.

If we can have a season like west coast did last year injury-wise and we get some motivation into our players so we don't have blow out losses like the tail end of the last 2 years we will make it to a top four spot easily.

 

[Seppo]

I'm in the mind we can beat Geelong only because of home advantage and how well we have done in recent meetings. Different story if it was away at Skilled.

Early call, but I say we win this round 1 fixture by 17 points providing we get through the rest of the preseason without best 22 players getting injured.

 

[BananaOnTheRun]

Says me. But it's good that the excuses are already being rolled out for a poor start, and the "there's always next year" crew are starting earlier each time.

If the only club we beat in those first five rounds is Brisbane, then how has anything actually changed?

looking purely at wins and losses is a superficial measure at this point in lyon's tenure. what matters is the manner of play, how the team works, structures, positioning, player management, etc. all the things that are developed in pre season and the NAB cup, they're the changes to look for initially.

realistically, we're aiming for finals. the club itself has said this. that's a slightly better than average year, so the club's expectation is that there will be losses and they probably will be against the better teams. maybe there's disparity between what the club expects and what the fans expect, because the playing group has the talent to reach for more, which is to do better than 1-4. talent alone kept us in the top 8 well into last year, until the injuries grew too much.

i don't believe we're going to take long to come up under lyon's watch. i think it's going to happen by the end of the first month of the season.

 

[Clay Davis]

looking purely at wins and losses is a superficial measure at this point in lyon's tenure.

No, it isn't. As Wigarus has pointed out, we have beaten every one of those sides bar St Kilda over the past two years. Last year, when we were playing awful football, we beat two of them (Brisbane and Sydney). Now people are saying we will go backwards.

It's garbage. Geelong took no time to get used to Chris Scott, and improved in 2011. Essendon improved with a new coach.

In my view, we should at least be 3-2 at round five. We should not lose a home game.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

No, it isn't. As Wigarus has pointed out, we have beaten every one of those sides bar St Kilda over the past two years. Last year, when we were playing awful football, we beat two of them (Brisbane and Sydney). Now people are saying we will go backwards.

It's garbage. Geelong took no time to get used to Chris Scott, and improved in 2011. Essendon improved with a new coach.

In my view, we should at least be 3-2 at round five. We should not lose a home game.

for the record i never said we will go backwards. I think a position in the bottom half of the top 8 is what will happen. I think top 4 is fanciful.


And just on this subject. I have seen you bag the following players:

Suban, Hill, Mundy, Ibbotson, Duffield, Johnson (no arguments there), Crowley and Mcphee.... Given that all of those players would be considered in our top 26 players, tell me exactly how we can expect to reach the top 4? And im sure there are other players im forgetting

 

[Clay Davis]

for the record i never said we will go backwards. I think a position in the bottom half of the top 8 is what will happen. I think top 4 is fanciful.

You start 1-4 and top eight starts to become exceedingly difficult.

 

[BananaOnTheRun]

No, it isn't. As Wigarus has pointed out, we have beaten every one of those sides bar St Kilda over the past two years. Last year, when we were playing awful football, we beat two of them (Brisbane and Sydney). Now people are saying we will go backwards.

It's garbage. Geelong took no time to get used to Chris Scott, and improved in 2011. Essendon improved with a new coach.

In my view, we should at least be 3-2 at round five. We should not lose a home game.

Scott stepped into a club with a winning culture and existing game plan that he barely strayed from.
Essendon invested big bucks into their footy department and enlisted mark thompson as an assistant.
i'm not disagreeing with you in that i think we can expect to see a big improvement, but that first comes from the method before it gets to the result. other posters are going to take a more cautious approach, which is fine, as we haven't seen a game yet.

 

[Clay Davis]

Essendon invested big bucks into their footy department and enlisted mark thompson as an assistant.

Have Freo not done the same? We've got a highly rated senior coach with experience, poached assistant coaches from successful clubs, have reorganised the footy department. Everything at Freo suggests an aim to improve massively in 2012. I don't see why 2012 can't start like 2010. I remember people looking at Adelaide, Essendon, Geelong and St Kilda that year and thinking we'd be 0-4.

 

[BananaOnTheRun]

Have Freo not done the same? We've got a highly rated senior coach with experience, poached assistant coaches from successful clubs, have reorganised the footy department. Everything at Freo suggests an aim to improve massively in 2012. I don't see why 2012 can't start like 2010. I remember people looking at Adelaide, Essendon, Geelong and St Kilda that year and thinking we'd be 0-4.

Some people just like to temper their expectations. The parts might suggest that improvements can be made, but until that first NAB cup game, we're in the dark about the effects of the sum.

 

[Nickos66]

You start 1-4 and top eight starts to become exceedingly difficult.

That said, St Kilda did it from 1-8 or something last year.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Have Freo not done the same? We've got a highly rated senior coach with experience, poached assistant coaches from successful clubs, have reorganised the footy department. Everything at Freo suggests an aim to improve massively in 2012. I don't see why 2012 can't start like 2010. I remember people looking at Adelaide, Essendon, Geelong and St Kilda that year and thinking we'd be 0-4.

you havent answered my question clay. with all those players i mentioned that you dont like/dont rate/dont do enough.... are they good enough to get us to the top four? or not

 

[Clay Davis]

you havent answered my question clay. with all those players i mentioned that you dont like/dont rate/dont do enough.... are they good enough to get us to the top four? or not

I don't rate them as highly as others based on performances shown to date. If players like Suban, Johnson, etc truly were as good as so many think they are, Freo would win more games.

There are around 10 or so players who have shown genuine match winning ability over a number of games - Sandilands, Pavlich, McPharlin, Mundy, Barlow, Hill, Fyfe, Ballantyne etc. Even Michael Johnson's good games have won matches. If most of those blokes are on the field and fit, and players like Suban played at the potential you're seeing, that top four is no longer out of the question.

I don't think Fyfe having a reduced preseason changes much in regards to us beating Geelong. He is not as big a loss to us as Ottens/Ling is to Geelong.