Geelong's midfield

[Claude Balls]

Guys, you are all making valid, accurate observations about the Geelong midfield.

My initial question however was not to do with instances where our bulk and strength aided us, but how our lack of running ability has hindered us; a factor that has proven to be more influential

With this in mind, which players on our list do you perceive to be the most capable of improving the midfield in this manner?

 

[RememberMe]

Guys, you are all making valid, accurate observations about the Geelong midfield.

My initial question however was not to do with instances where our bulk and strength aided us, but how our lack of running ability has hindered us; a factor that has proven to be more influential

With this in mind, which players on our list do you perceive to be the most capable of improving the midfield in this manner?

I would say it was our lack of fitness that hampered us more than our burst pace.

 

[GeeCat]

I can only presume (from your original post), that the running ability you speak of is more speed-based than anything. That said, I think any improvement to our midfield will come moreso from an ability to run hard as opposed to simply running fast.

So yeah, I don't think it's a simple case of plug 'n play with newer engine room additions, but more an improvement that needs to take place within the wider group more than anything. It's true that guys like Prismall, Stokes and hopefully Tenace, Woj, Byrnes etc (along with guys like Djerrkura and Varcoe down the track) will add toe in any instance, but the key requirement will be for them to be able to do the hard running offensively and defensively throughout the game. That's when these positions like the wing are utilised effectively.

A engine core of Bartel, Corey etc may be slightly one-paced, but if the aforementioned running takes place, that's just as well (let's face it, a guy like Smithy has already shown himself capable of doing so).

 

[Claude Balls]

I can only presume (from your original post), that the running ability you speak of is more speed-based than anything. That said, I think any improvement to our midfield will come moreso from an ability to run hard as opposed to simply running fast.

So yeah, I don't think it's a simple case of plug 'n play with newer engine room additions, but more an improvement that needs to take place within the wider group more than anything. It's true that guys like Prismall, Stokes and hopefully Tenace, Woj, Byrnes etc (along with guys like Djerrkura and Varcoe down the track) will add toe in any instance, but the key requirement will be for them to be able to do the hard running offensively and defensively throughout the game. That's when these positions like the wing are utilised effectively.

A engine core of Bartel, Corey etc may be slightly one-paced, but if the aforementioned running takes place, that's just as well (let's face it, a guy like Smithy has already shown himself capable of doing so).

Good response

I agree that the ability to run hard is as important as the ability to run fast. I feel that we were poor at both during 2006

 

[Inferno]

Secondly: Can you specifiy a single occasion in 2006 when Geelong utilised it's weight to intimidate and 'belt the s**t out of opponents'????

Round 19 vs Sydney.

 

[Asty]

Good response

I agree that the ability to run hard is as important as the ability to run fast. I feel that we were poor at both during 2006

That is where I am hoping the new fitness guru will come through for us with a better preparation.

Joel Corey is one I like in the middle as he is willing to bust his gut and additionally he can carry the ball.

Cousins isn't slow but he isn't quick either he is a champ because he runs until he cant run anymore then he runs again and I would kill for a couple of ben cousins running around at skilled stadium.

 

[GeeCat]

Only part of the hard running is fitness/physical-based, the other half is all mental. Wouldn't be out of hand to suggest alot of guys lack that right now. No fitness guru is going to change that alone.

 

[Scarlett Fever]

It's interesting people focus on the pace of the Bulldogs.

No doubt they're quick, but they also have great footskills. I've no doubt that plays a large part in their success.

What success is that? Why do people think the Bulldogs have been successful?

Pace isn't the problem. A lack of class is the problem. Disposal and decision making under pressure. Otherwise known as hurt factor. One could argue that more pace would allow a player to get clear and have more time to apply the hurt factor. But in tough finals footy I think you have to be able to decide and dispose under extreme pressure anyway.

This is something that is hard to teach and reflects our lack of silk draft picks over the years. Selwood is the new great hope and Jimmy's interview in todays addy is right on the money. Lets hope his act is as strong as his thought.

 

[nananana catman]

Our lack of speed is overrated.

It is our lack of hard running that is the real problem.

 

[BlueBelle]

How is Jimmy Bartel's pre-season going?

 

[Turbocat]

Bit unfair putting King in that 100M sprint.

For mine , while our core group probably are not the quickest around , their top level pace was not the reason we had such a poor year.

I totally agree that in an ideal world we would have players with great , flat stick sprint speed as well as the ability to produce gut busting running at 85% of the top for K after K and also to have all the skills to transfer the ball to the next player up field or scoring when the time comes. Players of this sort are rare and I'm not sure we have anyone waiting in the wings with the full package.

The being said , the guys we do have , when at their best, have shown they are good enough to match it with the AFL guns. You don’t beat the Swans or get 10 goals up on the Eagles if you have no power in the engine room. The Dogs are now the benchmark for pace yet twice last year there was only a point between us , just how slow could we be. The effort , the mental application to work in both the Dog games drove us to run hard and thus our theoretical lack of extreme top speed really cost us little as long as we didn’t stop. Nothing looks as slow as a player chasing except a player unable to chase because he is out of breath.
Our lack of preparation showed post those games because the extra effort used dulled us in the weeks following. We simply were not prepped for the amount of running that the current game demands.

They say thats been fixed , well we will see.

 

[DanA]

What success is that? Why do people think the Bulldogs have been successful?

Pace isn't the problem. A lack of class is the problem. Disposal and decision making under pressure. Otherwise known as hurt factor. One could argue that more pace would allow a player to get clear and have more time to apply the hurt factor. But in tough finals footy I think you have to be able to decide and dispose under extreme pressure anyway.

This is something that is hard to teach and reflects our lack of silk draft picks over the years. Selwood is the new great hope and Jimmy's interview in todays addy is right on the money. Lets hope his act is as strong as his thought.

I think the Bulldogs were very successfull in 2006. They improved their ladder position, won a final and were third highest scoring team in the league. They had 5 players over 195cm signifcantly injured and played an exciting brand of footy.

If we lost that many KP players and had to use G.Ablett as our major focal point we would find it difficult as well.

 

[catman2006]

If you don't have pace you need skill, to often last year Geelong would play well for a quarter or two then fall of the wagon.
Geelong have a very good in and under midfield but the ball carriers have no skill at kicking and go too wide to the forwards.
Hopefully you will see the ball carriers go down the middle and the forwards won't have to lead to a pocket.
The big improvement will have to come from guys like Tenace,Byrnes,Monica,Varcoe, Selwood they can break the lines and move the ball quickley leaving the forwards to face 1 on 1.

 

[Partridge]

The Dogs are now the benchmark for pace yet twice last year there was only a point between us , just how slow could we be. The effort , the mental application to work in both the Dog games drove us to run hard and thus our theoretical lack of extreme top speed really cost us little as long as we didn’t stop. Nothing looks as slow as a player chasing except a player unable to chase because he is out of breath.
Our lack of preparation showed post those games because the extra effort used dulled us in the weeks following. We simply were not prepped for the amount of running that the current game demands.

I actually don't think we lost that first Footscray game due to them being brilliant, I think the problem was Thompson was too worried by them, instead of having Geelong play their way. In rounds 1 and 2 we played fast, direct football moving the ball very, very quickly to the forward line. Shows what happens when you play someone else's style instead of your own.

 

[Rosella]

How is Jimmy Bartel's pre-season going?

Jimmy is the least of our problems, in fact he's never a problem until contract negotiation time.

 

[BlueBelle]

Jimmy is the least of our problems, in fact he's never a problem until contract negotiation time.

I know that.... I asked how his pre-season was going as I am interested,,, this is not a troll.

 

[Mooney_d'King]

I know that.... I asked how his pre-season was going as I am interested,,, this is not a troll.

No problem, I recognise that. Personally, I've heard no reports whatsoever on Jimmy's pre-season.

 

[Rosella]

No problem, I recognise that. Personally, I've heard no reports whatsoever on Jimmy's pre-season.

No, I didn't think she was trolling. And I haven't heard anything, so perhaps someone that goes to training or intra club match can have a look. Jimmy seems to roll along.

 

[RememberMe]

It will be a lot easier going long and direct to our forwards this year with a forward line which looks like this:

CHAPMAN OTTENS GABLETT
NABLETT MOONEY THAWKINS;

than one with Kent Kingsley in it.

 

[Asty]

It will be a lot easier going long and direct to our forwards this year with a forward line which looks like this:

CHAPMAN OTTENS GABLETT
NABLETT MOONEY THAWKINS;

than one with Kent Kingsley in it.

dont you think that looks a little tall?

Personally I would move hawkins to the bench and when ottens goes into ruck make hawkins FF (unless trying to expose opposition backmens height then hawkins can go to the FP alongside otto). Play only one of G.Ablett or Chapman at any onetime up forward and have them on a rotation through the middle. I would play stokes in a forward pocket at ottens/hawkins feet as in addition to his roving he would provide defensive pressure with his tackling. This then leaves room for another small forward so S.Johnson after 6 weeks if he gets some form or someone like a gamble, varcoe etc out of the other pocket.

so something like

F: Stokes - Ottens/Hawkins - Gamble/Varcoe/S.Johnson
HF: N.Ablett - Mooney - G.Ablett/P.Chapman

if having problems up forward then Milburn, Mackie, Kelly etc can also play up there in bursts.

Of course team selection is a matter of opinion but I like a mobile half forward line which I think this provides along with the big target and a couple of quick small men to scoop up the scraps (or provide a quick lead if space) as well as run down any oposition trying to clear the ball out.

 

[RememberMe]

dont you think that looks a little tall?

Personally I would move hawkins to the bench and when ottens goes into ruck make hawkins FF (unless trying to expose opposition backmens height then hawkins can go to the FP alongside otto). Play only one of G.Ablett or Chapman at any onetime up forward and have them on a rotation through the middle. I would play stokes in a forward pocket at ottens/hawkins feet as in addition to his roving he would provide defensive pressure with his tackling. This then leaves room for another small forward so S.Johnson after 6 weeks if he gets some form or someone like a gamble, varcoe etc out of the other pocket.

so something like

Stokes - Ottens/Hawkins - Gamble/Varcoe/S.Johnson
N.Ablett - Mooney - G.Ablett/P.Chapman

if having problems up forward then Milburn, Mackie, Kelly etc can also play up there in bursts.

Of course team selection is a matter of opinion but I like a mobile half forward line which I think this provides along with the big target and a couple of quick small men to scoop up the scraps (or provide a quick lead if space) as well as run down any oposition trying to clear the ball out.

That said, it will still be easier to kick to without Kingsley.

 

[Partridge]

Stokes - Ottens/Hawkins - Gamble/Varcoe/S.Johnson
N.Ablett - Mooney - G.Ablett/P.Chapman

Of course team selection is a matter of opinion but I like a mobile half forward line which I think this provides along with the big target and a couple of quick small men to scoop up the scraps (or provide a quick lead if space) as well as run down any oposition trying to clear the ball out.

I'd have it slightly different. Ottens will never be a CHF. I'd have Mooney CHF, Hawkins FF and Nathan Ablett floating between the two. They would be the only tall forwards. G.Ablett, Chapman and maybe Stokes alongside. Ottens I would have first ruck and alternate with King off the bench. He was our best ruckman last year and deserves first crack. As does Mooney at CHF.

 

[burto]

I'd have it slightly different. Ottens will never be a CHF. I'd have Mooney CHF, Hawkins FF and Nathan Ablett floating between the two. They would be the only tall forwards. G.Ablett, Chapman and maybe Stokes alongside. Ottens I would have first ruck and alternate with King off the bench. He was our best ruckman last year and deserves first crack. As does Mooney at CHF.

i think thats what he meant, he just wrote it upside down

 

[Claude Balls]

dont you think that looks a little tall?


Stokes - Ottens/Hawkins - Gamble/Varcoe/S.Johnson
N.Ablett - Mooney - G.Ablett/P.Chapman

if having problems up forward then Milburn, Mackie, Kelly etc can also play up there in bursts.

I very much like the look of this. I also think the hf and fp positions along Gamble, Ablett's side of your team sheet could be swapped for different effects

 

[Asty]

i think thats what he meant, he just wrote it upside down

Yeah sorry I should have made that clear. In my listing the full forward was ottens/hawkins and the chf was mooney.

I will edit my original post to be clear.

another posibility depending on match ups is to use g.ablett and chappy one on one with their oponents out of the goal square and clear out the forward 50. They are both good on a lead and if it hits the ground they can win contested ball (or hold it up while others stream past them). This relies on our onballers being able to deliver the ball in front of them not over their heads (even if hits the ground just in front of them). This I think though should only be used in 5-10min bursts as a suprise tactic (until oposition coach changes the matchups) and should not be a regular thing eg. when scarlett went to FF last year he was left there too long.