Gym & Misc General Health and Fitness Thread

[DemonTim]

It's so simple not sure why two in particular struggle with it


Dietary interventions
The Palaeolithic-type diet intervention was based on anthropological Palaeolithic research [21, 22] with a concern for feasibility in modern times. It was based on lean meat, fish, fruit, leafy and cruciferous vegetables, root vegetables, eggs and nuts. Dairy products, cereal grains, legumes, refined fats, extra salt and sugar were not part of it.
http://lipidworld.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1476-511X-13-160

Background
The Paleolithic diet was based on lean meat, fish, fruits, vegetables, root vegetables, eggs and nuts.
http://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-7-85


METHODOLOGY
Formulation of a Contemporary Diet Based Upon
Paleolithic Food Groups In the United States and other western nations, foods
generally are organized into one of five food groups: 1)
bread, cereal, rice and pasta group, 2) fruit group, 3) veg-
etable group, 4) milk, yogurt and cheese group, and 5) meat,
poultry, fish, dry beans, eggs & nuts group.
The formulation of a contemporary diet based upon Paleolithic foods
groups necessarily excludes two of these major groups
(grains and dairy) because these foods were rarely or never
consumed by contemporary or Paleolithic hunter-gatherers.
Additionally, within food group #5, dry beans
and legumes were not included in the analysis because, like
cereal grains, these foods did not become dietary staples
until Neolithic times.
Finally, all modern processed foods
containing mixtures of grains, refined sugars and oils, salt,
and food additives were likewise excluded from the model
because these food mixtures became part of the human
dietary repertoire only following the Agricultural and
Industrial Revolutions.
http://thepaleodiet.com/wp-content/...on-Paleolithic-Food-Groups-The-Paleo-Diet.pdf


You’ve heard of the benefits of the Paleo Diet but still don’t fully understand what it is?
http://thepaleodiet.com/what-to-eat-on-the-paleo-diet-paul-vandyken/


Prioritize whole, unprocessed, nutrient-dense, nourishing foods.
Eat vegetables, grass-fed and pastured meat and eggs, wild-caught seafood, healthy fats, fermented foods, fruit, nuts, seeds, and spices.
http://nomnompaleo.com/paleo101

Paleo diet: What is it and why is it so popular?
A paleo diet typically includes lean meats, fish, fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...althy-eating/in-depth/paleo-diet/art-20111182


The Paleo Diet – A Beginner’s Guide Plus Meal Plan
By Kris Gunnars, BSc
The Basics
Eat: Meat, fish, eggs, vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, herbs, spices, healthy fats and oils.

Avoid: Processed foods, sugar, soft drinks, grains, most dairy products, legumes, artificial sweeteners, vegetable oils, margarine and trans fats.
https://authoritynutrition.com/paleo-diet-meal-plan-and-menu/

Is there a reason some say avoid dairy and some say avoid most dairy?
The PT at work has said marg is paleo

*s sake. You even used a link that I used and pointed out it contradicts. It's like you just take extreme offense to everything posted here.

Again, you acknowledge that's what's pushed in the mainstream "isn't paleo". Wouldn't that suggest that most people would define it differently?

It's very strange watching someone who needs to continually point out isn't paleo, crack it about paleo being bagged when it's not, and follow experts and paleo blogs. Brb just gotta catch up on all my vegan blogs. I'm not vegan though

 

[phantom13]

1- you need a half page to define it and you cant see why it might be a bit confusing to the non initiated?
2- AGAIN, that's all fine but ive seen different definitions, ive seen recipes WITH eggs, ive seen people cook with oils (not defined) etc. That's it, that's my point, theres a bunch of definitions and with so many vocal and spirited advocates doing different things its annoying.

That's all, that's my only point.

 

[phantom13]

I know "strict" vegans, those that won't touch honey for example, who still eat oysters as they have no central nervous system.

Strict definitions are just Soctratic dead ends.

Yeh well vegans can certainly fall in the same category, no question, but I think the definition of Vegan is a lot simpler, therefore their vocalisation of it seems less frustrating.

 

[DemonTim]

1- you need a half page to define it and you cant see why it might be a bit confusing to the non initiated?
2- AGAIN, that's all fine but ive seen different definitions, ive seen recipes WITH eggs, ive seen people cook with oils (not defined) etc. That's it, that's my point, theres a bunch of definitions and with so many vocal and spirited advocates doing different things its annoying.

That's all, that's my only point.

Your points been clear mate. Somehow bazzar has taken offense again, to something not directed at him, over something he doesn't follow, and felt the need to change your point and make strange claims about you.

This is the crossfit argument all over again. Literally the exact same logic.

 

[DemonTim]

Yeh well vegans can certainly fall in the same category, no question, but I think the definition of Vegan is a lot simpler, therefore their vocalisation of it seems less frustrating.

The vegans I know tend to define it well, they just lapse, and try to justify it by shifting the definition.

 

[Bazzar]

1- you need a half page to define it and you cant see why it might be a bit confusing to the non initiated?
2- AGAIN, that's all fine but ive seen different definitions, ive seen recipes WITH eggs, ive seen people cook with oils (not defined) etc. That's it, that's my point, theres a bunch of definitions and with so many vocal and spirited advocates doing different things its annoying.

That's all, that's my only point.

Half a page? One minute you criticise that I fail to give enough proof or definition on how simple it is, then I do and you complain you are confused.

 

[DemonTim]

It's kinda amusing watch a poster who spends most of his time ragging on the vegans on here, sooking about "haters gonna hate" in reference to paleo

 

[phantom13]

Half a page? One minute you criticise that I fail to give enough proof or definition on how simple it is, then I do and you complain you are confused.

I didn't criticize you for not providing information, in fact I quite clearly pointed out that you HAD provided your definition and that because of how detailed it was it explained why there seems to be confusion.

 

[phantom13]

We actually had this exact same discussion a page ago.

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

I know "strict" vegans, those that won't touch honey for example, who still eat oysters as they have no central nervous system.

Strict definitions are just Soctratic dead ends.

They're actually not vegans, let alone strict vegans.

You can eat mainly vegan for the most part, then throw back some Sunday oysters.. That's fine. But they can't call themselves vegan. Unless they think an oyster is a plant ofc.

 

[Gralin]

It's all very confusing

 

[DemonTim]

They're actually not vegans, let alone strict vegans.

You can eat mainly vegan for the most part, then throw back some Sunday oysters.. That's fine. But they can't call themselves vegan. Unless they think an oyster is a plant ofc.

I think he's saying they don't consider it "living" as it contains no central nervous system. So they would consider it as close to a plant

 

[showdownhero]

Ah the 10 year old girl bazzar is back

No one has even bagged paleo as a diet. We've said there's not a consensus amongst what EXACTLYit is. ****s sake. You even said yourself th mainstream media says it's something different to the "experts"

As usual, you've explained nothing, provided no evidence, then come out with "oh but I've explained it".

Ps. I don't like Pete Evans or paleo

Maybe if you and phantom13 were a little more genuine and informed in your posting you'd get a higher standard of reply

inb4 hurr durr melted butter and aioli

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

I think he's saying they don't consider it "living" as it contains no central nervous system. So they would consider it as close to a plant

Yeah I know.

 

[DemonTim]

Maybe if you and phantom13 were a little more genuine and informed in your posting you'd get a higher standard of reply

inb4 hurr durr melted butter and aioli

How is saying "people have differing ideas of paleo" not genuine or informed? Your entire posts are based on the premise that no one anywhere in the world possibly could think what we suggest, and obviously we are lying about anyone who does, and any link that differs doesn't exist

When bazzar admits that what's pushed in mainstream media differs from "experts", it's hard for you to maintain it

And I wouldn't comment on genuine when you make bullshit claims about people bagging paleo when it's been EXPLICITLY stated he's not bagging it

*. How is it the two biggest campaigners who whinge about veganism become 10 year olds when someone says there's differing ideas about paleo. *. At least Daza had thick skin. He'd have killed himself over some of the s**t you two have posted to him if he took offense like you.

 

[DemonTim]

Spend 2 years bitching about vegans and vegetarians in vegan and vegetarian threads
Crack the shits when someone said paleo isn't clearly defined the same by everyone
?????
Profit

 

[showdownhero]

Spend 2 years bitching about vegans and vegetarians in vegan and vegetarian threads
Crack the shits when someone said paleo isn't clearly defined the same by everyone
?????
Profit

Why can't we all just get along?

 

[DemonTim]

Why can't we all just get along?

Because for some reason two people who aren't continually telling us they're not paleo are taking offense on behalf of paleo, even though no one is even bagging the diet.

 

[Bazzar]

Why can't we all just get along?

I agree, but some just naturally gravitate to certain people and criticise regardless.
And so what if i'm not paleo, i'm keto-primal if it has to be defined, and the misinformation about that is just as bad. Ketoacidosis! FFS.
And briefly back to paleo a very well known social media nutritionist who has a "massive" facebook following said last month that carbs are the ONLY fuel for the brain. No wonder people like me get frustrated.

 

[DemonTim]

I agree, but some just naturally gravitate to certain people and criticise regardless.
And so what if i'm not paleo, i'm keto-primal if it has to be defined, and the misinformation about that is just as bad. Ketoacidosis! FFS.
And briefly back to paleo a very well known social media nutritionist who has a "massive" facebook following said last month that carbs are the ONLY fuel for the brain. No wonder people like me get frustrated.

Really? You think we are just attacking you, because it's you. Mate, you're basically a *in bully on here to anyone who doesn't eat meat. The s**t you post is venomous. You are about as far from victim as it gets. You get very very nasty at anything you perceive as a slight.

What's that got to do with paleo? I literally just read something saying that paleo isn't necessarily about lowering carbs, it's just about changing the carb source.

 

[DemonTim]

If I wasn't on my phone I'd go and find all the posts on this exact topic but changing paleo for IIFYM.

 

[phantom13]

Maybe if you and phantom13 were a little more genuine and informed in your posting you'd get a higher standard of reply

inb4 hurr durr melted butter and aioli

Where exactly was I not genuine and informed?

 

[phantom13]

I agree, but some just naturally gravitate to certain people and criticise regardless.
And so what if i'm not paleo, i'm keto-primal if it has to be defined, and the misinformation about that is just as bad. Ketoacidosis! FFS.
And briefly back to paleo a very well known social media nutritionist who has a "massive" facebook following said last month that carbs are the ONLY fuel for the brain. No wonder people like me get frustrated.

For anyone that cares this started cause I said two things about paleo followers that frustrate me. One being that it's not well defined. So you replied to me not the other way princess and for the thousandth time I DONT THINK PALEO IS BAD JUST THAT ALOT OF PROMINENT AND VOCAL PALEOERS SAY ITS DIFFERENT THINGS.

 

[DemonTim]

For anyone that cares this started cause I said two things about paleo followers that frustrate me. One being that it's not well defined. So you replied to me not the other way princess and for the thousandth time I DONT THINK PALEO IS BAD JUST THAT ALOT OF PROMINENT AND VOCAL PALEOERS SAY ITS DIFFERENT THINGS.

Lol got in two seconds before me. I didn't think you were saying it in response, but wanted to confirm

 

[DemonTim]

Work laptop for the win. This went on for pages:

The only links are to bro science blogs and NO actual Pubmed links.

IIFYM = carbs-protein-fat, doesn't matter where they come from as long as it fits the individuals percentages.
Science shows it's flawed, but the Bro Science brothers are becoming so defensive about it they are shifting the goal posts now saying the quality of macros IS important.

This is a good run down.


"Now, what is wrong here?

I think that this entire dietary cult (IIFYM) is built on a shaky foundation.

First of all, it completely ignores the quality of the foodstuff you put into your mouth.

Second of all, it falsely assumes that food, beside its macronutrient content, has no other value to your health. It only provides energy.

This approach completely ignores how food alters the microbiome and how it affects gene expression. More on that in a bit…

Young people may get away with following IIFYM (and flexible dieting) in their youth years. But even so, it is most likely they are going to pay the price later in life."

http://cristivlad.com/iifym-and-the-major-flaws-of-flexible-dieting/

That's where IIF"Your"M makes no sense.
Originally it was eat any type of carb, protein and fat as long as it fit your percentages, then they changed it to include "quality" micros, so now its just a balanced version of what ever you follow, vegetarian, Med, Primal, LCHF or ADG.
The name IIFYM is just nutritionally dumb

Any links other than some anonymous gym dude. Something with some science to back it up?

And "not liking it"?
Its not a real thing, that's my issue. It's just gym made up bro science. If you disagree show me some scientific proof that backs IIFYM as legitimate

I read the Pizza Brah's plan. Meh.

Fact is Eirik Stevens made it up because he was sick of noobs asking silly questions about food intake, from there IIFYM has developed a life of its own as pure bro science ONLY discussed in gyms and NOT in any nutrition circles.

So for all the other readers. I'll give you a TLR:
Both bazaar and I agree IIFYM is not based in science
Bazaar contends that IIFYM was originally founded on eat whatever the **** you want and make it fit your macros, no other rules (has yet to provide a source or evidence of such)
I contend it's just loudmouths and people new to it, who believe that. And that it's not what it currently is, nor was previously about (provided links to people discussing principles 5years ago, as well as quotes from IIFYM "sources")
Bazaar claims that because these are scientific sources they aren't proof
It is a hypocritical stance, because he acknowledges it isn't science, but wants science to prove "what it originally" was