General MFC Discussion 2.0

[Djcjdees]

Pokies are a negative on society! Now let's all celebrate by getting drunk with some club sellable alcohol!

While eating some AFL-endorsed KFC, a large Coke, 15 coffees and a few chocolate bars for dessert.

 

[00Stinger]

While eating some AFL-endorsed KFC, a large Coke, 15 coffees and a few chocolate bars for dessert.

yep. Thats fine.

Double standards and all

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[harry000]

I'm sorry but that is incorrect.

A non-profit can make a profit year after year.

The whole point of a non-profit is that the profits are absorbed back into the entity rather than being collected by owners or share holders.

As long as the entity is operating for purpose and not profit or gain it can be considered non-profit

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Correct. It is prudent for a non-profit to retain "operating profits" as a cash reserve (or other investment) to offset any future losses.

It would be bad business to throw away money just to get to a $0 point on the cash flow sheet.

But I think the essence of what autocol is saying is correct. As long as the club can maintain status quo and avoid making significant operating losses in future years. Getting rid of the pokies is a good thing. Hopefully, now that a second club has made the decision it will put more pressure on the rest.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Just a note about clubs recording profits/losses each year.

As non-profit organisations, they literally can't record a profit year after year after year. That's the whole point of a non-profit organisation. With rare exception, clubs record annual profits/losses of within a percent or two of their overall operating budget. A loss of 5% of annual budget in a calendar year is considered an absolute disaster.

So when you say "Collingwood lost money in year X", it would be more accurate to say "having spent a metric arseload of money on literally anything they could think of, including champagne to flush the toilet and gold leaf nailpolish for their director's pets, Collingwood have managed to engineer an on-paper loss to satisfy the Australian Tax Office, whilst their executives continue to enjoy the largesse of operating a multi-million dollar business as their personal plaything".

There is no shortage of cash in the AFL system. They're absolutely drowning in it. That our club has finally followed the lead of the Kangas (and others) and taken away an unnecessary revenue stream which is viewed in a very dim light by a large and growing percentage of the population (and for good reason, it's an industry motivated by soulless greed) is a very good move (and not a moment too soon).

First i 'liked' your post, then I unliked it so I could like it twice

 

[Higgs Boson]

At first I was happy when I heard about us ditching the pokies.

Then a few things started to hit me

1: How does this look to the rest of the AFL that we can afford to ditch our pokies when not so long ago we were pleading for money just to survive as a club?
2: The number one objective of any club is onfield success. Selling games to Darwin and NT hinders this success greatly, and removing the pokies to me indicates we will extend of our deal with the NT as a means of making money. Honestly I would support the club if it made it's revenue off cocaine and selling arms if it meant we didn't have to sell anymore home games to the NT.

Maybe the club have something lined up that will be announced later, who knows. I have faith in Action Jackson, but will he still be around in 2022 when the deal finishes up and we need an alternate revenue?

Don’t think it matters in circumstances where Goyder - as new AFL chair - has recently come out strongly against pokies

 

[schmuttt]

Pokies are a negative on society! Now let's all celebrate by getting drunk with some club sellable alcohol!

Mate I like you but stop posting shit just to start arguments.

 

[Devastating Boris]

Pretty sure my whole life has been non-profit.

 

[Topkent]

Mate I like you but stop posting shit just to start arguments.

There are countless occasions where I'll admit I try and find a reaction but I do find this stance a strange one considering how many other legal vices destroy society.
Mate I've seen alcohol do a lot more damage to people than pokies so I find this a weird stance of people to have.

I ****ing hate the pokies, never use it but I don't think it's right to diss pokies while holding a beer or a smoke or eating fast food etc.

It's easy to take the moral high ground but everyone should look themselves in the mirror on this and realize everyone contributes to societies problems. Maybe this is a step in the right direction but I won't be celebrating until thier is a broader more effective approach to helping society from burning itself down from the core.

 

[DeesFanTheMan]

There are countless occasions where I'll admit I try and find a reaction but I do find this stance a strange one considering how many other legal vices destroy society.
Mate I've seen alcohol do a lot more damage to people than pokies so I find this a weird stance of people to have.

I ******* hate the pokies, never use it but I don't think it's right to diss pokies while holding a beer or a smoke or eating fast food etc.

It's easy to take the moral high ground but everyone should look themselves in the mirror on this and realize everyone contributes to societies problems. Maybe this is a step in the right direction but I won't be celebrating until thier is a broader more effective approach to helping society from burning itself down from the core.

In my opinion, your view is closed minded, No matter which way I look at your post, I can't discern the logic behind your point of view, basically the way I read this is all or nothing, Don't fix one problem unless every problem is fixed at the same time, which is Utopia and unattainable.

Maybe you should look at this as a step in the right direction towards the ideal you seek.

 

[Tempy Tiger]

In my opinion, your view is closed minded, No matter which way I look at your post, I can't discern the logic behind your point of view, basically the way I read this is all or nothing, Don't fix one problem unless every problem is fixed at the same time, which is Utopia and unattainable.

Maybe you should look at this as a step in the right direction towards the ideal you seek.

Thank you linesmen, thank you ball boys.

 

[Sando22]

In my opinion, your view is closed minded, No matter which way I look at your post, I can't discern the logic behind your point of view, basically the way I read this is all or nothing, Don't fix one problem unless every problem is fixed at the same time, which is Utopia and unattainable.

Maybe you should look at this as a step in the right direction towards the ideal you seek.

Thank you linesmen, thank you ball boys.

Bundled out in the 1st round!

 

[Topkent]

In my opinion, your view is closed minded, No matter which way I look at your post, I can't discern the logic behind your point of view, basically the way I read this is all or nothing, Don't fix one problem unless every problem is fixed at the same time, which is Utopia and unattainable.

Maybe you should look at this as a step in the right direction towards the ideal you seek.

So did you completely ignore my last paragraph?
I thought I made it clear enough that a small step to me isn't worth celebrating when there are so many larger issues. If everyone wants to make a difference drop the beer the smokes the fast food etc.

Mate I've seen a lot of damage that alcohol can do to people and to me it's a lot less than pokies can do to someone. Pokies don't kill people, pokies don't assault people. You can sit in front of a machine and that's your choice but meeting a drunk person in the street who hits you and puts you in hospital.. yeah.


Good on Melbourne it's none of my business what they do really but while your celebrating the loss of pokies holding a beer, maybe you are not as good as you would like to think you are.

 

[Sando22]

 

[DeesFanTheMan]

So did you completely ignore my last paragraph?
I thought I made it clear enough that a small step to me isn't worth celebrating when there are so many larger issues. If everyone wants to make a difference drop the beer the smokes the fast food etc.

Mate I've seen a lot of damage that alcohol can do to people and to me it's a lot less than pokies can do to someone. Pokies don't kill people, pokies don't assault people. You can sit in front of a machine and that's your choice but meeting a drunk person in the street who hits you and puts you in hospital.. yeah.


Good on Melbourne it's none of my business what they do really but while your celebrating the loss of pokies holding a beer, maybe you are not as good as you would like to think you are.

You are assuming that everyone is drinking to celebrate, you are assuming everyone is a smoker, you are assuming everyone is eating fast food, you are conflating the ideas in your head.

I applaud your ideal, I just can't wrap my head around how you can get a negative spin out of our club exiting the pokie business.

By your logic we shouldn't celebrate the impact the Big Freeze has had on MND because Cancer is worse.

 

[00Stinger]

I agree with Topkent.

Why is everyone applauding this move away from pokies which is a legal vice that only a small percentage of people have a serious problem with?

Yet no one would blink an eye if the club made money off probably worse vices such as alcohol, fast food or sugar

 

[schmuttt]

I agree with Topkent.

Why is everyone applauding this move away from pokies which is a legal vice that only a small percentage of people have a serious problem with?

Yet no one would blink an eye if the club made money off probably worse vices such as alcohol, fast food or sugar

Like DeesFanTheMan said, going by this logic might as well not bother talking about MND because cancer kills more people.

 

[00Stinger]

Like DeesFanTheMan said, going by this logic might as well not bother talking about MND because cancer kills more people.

apples and oranges.

MND an cancer kill almost everyone who contracts them.

Pokies cause problems for probably 1% of people who play them.

I'm not being negative about us getting out of the pokie business I just don't see why everyone is celebrating it like it is the greatest thing ever!

 

[Tempy Tiger]

People are celebrating it because it’s a step in the right direction! Would you prefer we just sign a new major sponsorship with Phillip Morris?! **** me.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

apples and oranges.

MND an cancer kill almost everyone who contracts them.

Pokies cause problems for probably 1% of people who play them.

I'm not being negative about us getting out of the pokie business I just don't see why everyone is celebrating it like it is the greatest thing ever!

Pokies and alcohol are apples and oranges. Gambling is a negative sum game meaning society loses overall - corporations profit and the tax revenue doesn’t offset huge social losses. Poor people are disproportionately affected and until gambling becomes at least ethically neutral there’s no way to teach ‘responsible gambling’ behaviour. Alcohol consumption is a matter of private consumption where you can buy alcohol, enjoy yourself responsibly, and the economy/society winds out overall. We can improve our alcohol consumption behaviour as a community. The same absolutely cannot be said for gambling which is incredibly predatory and will always screw over those who can least afford it. Not to mention that it’s not the MFC who should be taking responsibility for this anyway - the AFL as an organisation should stop relying upon its clubs taking advantage of morally incorrigible practices to subsidise its own flawed business model. If you don’t see how alcohol consumption and gambling are completely incomparable practices you’re incredibly naive.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Also I would be more than happy for the AFL as well as Cricket Australia etc to abandon all sponsorship associated with alcohol. I’ll still drink beer - I don’t need sports teams to advertise it. The issue here isn’t just with the practices itself - it’s with sporting organisations benefiting from them. No one is shutting down pokies. We’re just excluding them from what should be a sustainable, socially responsible business model

 

[Djcjdees]

Mate I like you but stop posting shit just to start arguments.

I actually thought it raised a valid point (which is why I replied to it with what I did). There are far bigger dangers to society than pokies that the AFL is quite happy to endorse. Pokies just happens to be the flavour of the month.

Sure though, it is a step towards a more socially responsible operated club I guess. I just don't like the preachiness of it all.

I think with a lot of this kind of thing, it comes down to your views on personal responsibility and how far you are ok with other entities interfering with your right to do stuff. That being said, there are people who may not have the capacity to make the 'right' choices all the time and for those people, there obviously needs to be some sort of regulation put in place.

I think there are pretty huge double standards at play within authorities that are pretty plain to see. For example, when I go to the footy and see every kid there, every week, no matter whether it is VFL, NRL, A League, netball whatever shoving massive amounts of junk food (because there are no other options available) into their gobs, it makes it a little difficult to believe the preachiness that the AFL comes out with sometimes. I'd wager than obesity/diabetes/heart problems/kidney/liver etc problems related to our kids' diets are going to faaaaaaaaar outweigh (pun only slightly not intended) the 'evil' that is the pokies. Our clubs are probably all making decent coin out of those 'vices', no? Where does it stop though, is my point I guess. Is junk food next? Alcohol? Ciggies? Sugar? Arguably taking stances against any of those would be more socially responsible than a stance against pokies.

Again though, happy for the club to do the 'right' thing as far as society is concerned.

 

[00Stinger]

Pokies and alcohol are apples and oranges. Gambling is a negative sum game meaning society loses overall - corporations profit and the tax revenue doesn’t offset huge social losses. Poor people are disproportionately affected and until gambling becomes at least ethically neutral there’s no way to teach ‘responsible gambling’ behaviour.

Poor people are disproportionately affected by all major issues caused on society whether it be alcohol, drugs, sugar, health, tobacco ext.

But the thing I have the biggest issue with is 'there is no way to teach ‘responsible gambling’ behaviour'. That is such bullshit. Statistically only 2.9% of the population have problems with gambling meaning that the message of responsible gambling has managed to reach a large proportion of the community. And of that 2.9% of the population I'm guessing if it wasn't gambling it would just be some other addiction these people would get hooked on.

Alcohol consumption is a matter of private consumption where you can buy alcohol, enjoy yourself responsibly, and the economy/society winds out overall. We can improve our alcohol consumption behaviour as a community. The same absolutely cannot be said for gambling which is incredibly predatory and will always screw over those who can least afford it. Not to mention that it’s not the MFC who should be taking responsibility for this anyway - the AFL as an organisation should stop relying upon its clubs taking advantage of morally incorrigible practices to subsidise its own flawed business model. If you don’t see how alcohol consumption and gambling are completely incomparable practices you’re incredibly naive.

I don't think that gambling is predatory at all and I like to have a bet. At the end of the day if people cannot control their urges that is on them and not any body else. I'm not condoning sugar, junk food, alcohol, smoking or gambling or any other legal vice for that matter. I just don't see the big issue with clubs making money of a legal business.

Plus it is not like every cent that is lost on the pokies is lost by problem gamblers, Many, many people will go in and lose money they have allocated and planned on risking.

 

[00Stinger]

People are celebrating it because it’s a step in the right direction! Would you prefer we just sign a new major sponsorship with Phillip Morris?! **** me.

Once again it wouldn't bother me

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Poor people are disproportionately affected by all major issues caused on society whether it be alcohol, drugs, sugar, health, tobacco ext.

But the thing I have the biggest issue with is 'there is no way to teach ‘responsible gambling’ behaviour'. That is such bullshit. Statistically only 2.9% of the population have problems with gambling meaning that the message of responsible gambling has managed to reach a large proportion of the community. And of that 2.9% of the population I'm guessing if it wasn't gambling it would just be some other addiction these people would get hooked on.



I don't think that gambling is predatory at all and I like to have a bet. At the end of the day if people cannot control their urges that is on them and not any body else. I'm not condoning sugar, junk food, alcohol, smoking or gambling or any other legal vice for that matter. I just don't see the big issue with clubs making money of a legal business.

Plus it is not like every cent that is lost on the pokies is lost by problem gamblers, Many, many people will go in and lose money they have allocated and planned on risking.

You have a serious misunderstanding of addiction if you think people are just looking for something to be addicted to

 

[Djcjdees]

But the thing I have the biggest issue with is 'there is no way to teach ‘responsible gambling’ behaviour'. That is such bullshit.

Could not agree more. As the son of a bookie who grew up working at the track as a penciler, it is all about being taught the right way to do things. People have developed an all-too-ready excuse it seems to me of 'the government let me do it, it's their fault.'

As I said above, there are most certainly some people who don't actually possess the capacity to make those sorts of decisions properly and sure, there should be some sort of safeguards in place for that. However that number is tiny. It's no different to any other vice. You just need some self control. It's perfectly 'ok' for someone to go to the bottlo and buy 10 bottles of vodka and down it all, ending up in a public hospital though. Self control.

Because of my upbringing, I've always been a small dollar punter. I lose more than I win, absolutely, but I gain some enjoyment out of it and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. But the conversation these days seems to be that what I do just isn't ok. 'Gambling should never be done alone' and 'It isn't a problem until it is' and 'Dollar punting is just how it all starts'. Give me a spell. Stop treating me like I don't know how to look after myself and exercise some self control FFS. For 99% of people, it is your responsibility, not someone else's. Stop being lazy and grow up.