Updated George Pell * Dead at 81yo

[geoffjennings79]

Never liked the man, but he was found innocent. I believe in justice, so labeling him a pedophile is a bit rich I think.

Still a paedophile enabler and protector. So the actions he chose in ignoring theactivities of peadophiles he protected cost many children their innocence, and in many cases, their lives, including people I knew. The parents of these victims made him aware many times of what was going on.

A direct quote from him to the RC:
"It was a sad story and of not much interest to me,”

 

[geoffjennings79]

Pell and the church got it wrong in how to handle molestation allegations. Zero doubt there. With hindsight its easy. He wanted to protect the church and to believe in redemption for the priest and to do what is right for the child. All 3 couldn't he achieved simultaneously. He wouldn't be the first to get it wrong on an important issue eg history of Weinstein and me too. Then you have the first Gay Mardi Gras in 78 which was actually a protest. Protestors were bashed and jailed by police. Wait what?

My point is that attitudes change on the desired response to a breach of societal values. Really easy to apply current thinking to an historical problem and crucify Pell. I don't think it's that simple.

He got it wrong, and lives - the lives of innocent children - were destroyed. Yet he waltzed through his life with no care for the outcomes of HIS choices, and said as much at the RC. He couldn't even read the room with current attitudes. He was a POS, with not a shred of humanity.

 

[Kurve]

There's a Pell protest going ahead at Hyde Park, directly opposite St Mary's Cathedral.

 

[Kurve]

Wild scenes.

A protester carrying a rainbow umbrella was dragged away by police in a dramatic arrest as the service got underway.

The drama unfolded just behind wear thousands have their backs turned and eyes glued to the screen.

The man was wearing a mask and whistling loudly while walking up and down beside the church.

Earlier protesters were heard chanting: “George Pell go to hell, take Dutton there as well.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/protesters-and-mourners-gather-at-sydneys-st-marys-cathedral-for-george-pells-funeral/news-story/e41f251adc530866a54a8d44e9f2f6a3

 

[Terrafirma]

He got it wrong, and lives - the lives of innocent children - were destroyed. Yet he waltzed through his life with no care for the outcomes of HIS choices, and said as much at the RC. He couldn't even read the room with current attitudes. He was a POS, with not a shred of humanity.

well said..!

 

[faible]

 

[geoffjennings79]

According to ABC radio, Pell's brother's eulogy contained these comments (paraphrasing):
"He was a prince of the church who was convicted for the failings of his predecessor."
Funny, Pell was in Ballarat when Ridsdale was running rampant, so closer to the "action" than Frank Little.
Also apparently the Mad Monk eulogised him as the greatest catholic Australia has produced! I can think of dozens of Catholics (I used to be one) who have contributed more to this country than he ever did, from all walks of life. And they did it without self-aggrandisement.

These people have no shame, and not an ounce of consideration for all the victims of clerical abuse. Obviously the entire Pell family are a bunch of delusional campaigners.

 

[Xtreme]

Wild scenes.

Earlier protesters were heard chanting: “George Pell go to hell, take Dutton there as well.”

I lol'd!!!

 

[Kurve]

The Shovel, always good value.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Such a strange situation. Hundreds of people protesting at the funeral of a dead Cardinal. What do they hope? He will change his mind. Apologize........ Just bizarre

You know what would be really cool in all this. Pell flings the lid of his coffin open climbs out and says loudly in angry tone .......p*ss off the lot of you, I'm dead already.

 

[GreyCrow]

Such a strange situation. Hundreds of people protesting at the funeral of a dead Cardinal. What do they hope? He will change his mind. Apologize........ Just bizarre

You know what would be really cool in all this. Pell flings the lid of his coffin open climbs out and says loudly in angry tone .......p*ss off the lot of you, I'm dead already.

I think they are reminding people that they now have a voice.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Never liked the man, but he was found innocent. I believe in justice, so labeling him a pedophile is a bit rich I think.

Couldn't give a rats if he did it or not

The cover ups and moving around of sick pedo priests was much worse

If there is a Hell, he will burn in there for eternity

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Whilst not a pedo by definition, he 100% knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it. Enabling can be just as bad as the actual act.

Pell was a POS by all accounts but there is still something off-putting in my mind about protesting a funeral.

I am not a survivor of child abuse though so i guess i can't really criticize it.

 

[faible]

Couldn't give a rats if he did it or not

The cover ups and moving around of sick pedo priests was much worse

If there is a Hell, he will burn in there for eternity

It's a strange line of argument

"So what if he covered up for other Priests abusing children, he wasn't convicted of being a paedophile. I mean, he was, but then had it overturned on a technicality. Great man."

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I watched the movie spotlight again last night. About the Catholic church response to child molestations in Boston by priests. The priests were moved from parish to parish and not dealt with criminally. In the movie a psychotherapist was quoted as saying prevalence was 6% amongst priests. Staggering if true. The world wide response it seems was always to protect the church first. For an institution to habitually and so demonstrably get in wrong on humanitarian ideals when humanity is supposedly the stock in trade, is difficult to understand. But that is the truth of history.

"It was a sad story and not of much interest to me" Pell at RC

I was unaware that was a Pell response in RC until I read it here then checked. Once again so driven by defence of the church to show total lack of compassion and humanity to the true victims themselves. I'm a little speechless.

It's a funeral and not a good choice to protest that in any metric. But the Catholic church is terrible for it's response on molestation by priests. Is it Pell or the church or do you lump them all together. What a mess.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

It's a strange line of argument

"So what if he covered up for other Priests abusing children, he wasn't convicted of being a paedophile. I mean, he was, but then had it overturned on a technicality. Great man."

Jesus. you took that and ran didn't you.........

All the guy said was that Pell wasn't a podophile thus labelling him one was rich, Pell isn't a pedophile as he was not found guilty of it. The guy didn't say anything about Pell covering up for other priests, nor did he allude to him being a "good guy"

Pell clearly knew and likely turned the other cheek to abuse done by other priests which is utterly terrible, but you putting words in people's mouths really doesn't do anyone any favors, even in a sarcastic way.

Not sure how being technically correct means you think Pell is all of a sudden, a good guy. Just ridiculous really.

 

[faible]

Jesus. you took that and ran didn't you.........

All the guy said was that Pell wasn't a podophile thus labelling him one was rich, Pell isn't a pedophile as he was not found guilty of it. The guy didn't say anything about Pell covering up for other priests, nor did he allude to him being a "good guy"

Pell clearly knew and likely turned the other cheek to abuse done by other priests which is utterly terrible, but you putting words in people's mouths really doesn't do anyone any favors, even in a sarcastic way.

Not sure how being technically correct means you think Pell is all of a sudden, a good guy. Just ridiculous really.

Well, he was. First by a Jury trial, then by two judges at the Court of Appeals.

But then it was overturned on a technicality.

How George Pell won in the High Court on a legal technicality

This High Court appeal did not ask whether Pell committed the offences. It asked whether the two majority judges in the Victorian Court of Appeal, in dismissing Pell’s earlier appeal, made an error.

theconversation.com

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Well, he was. First by a Jury trial, then by two judges at the Court of Appeals.

But then it was overturned on a technicality.

How George Pell won in the High Court on a legal technicality

This High Court appeal did not ask whether Pell committed the offences. It asked whether the two majority judges in the Victorian Court of Appeal, in dismissing Pell’s earlier appeal, made an error.

theconversation.com

So? if it's overturned, he isn't guilty of it. You cannot be semi guilty of something. You either are or you aren't.

There's nothing wrong with being factually correct.

Pell can still be an incredible POS and certainly an enabler of other pedophiles without being labelled as a pedophile himself.

The High Court of Australia suggesting a Jury should have had doubt is far beyond a "legal technicality" by the way. Only someone with prejudice against Pell would minimise that High Court ruling to a "technicality".

Again Pell is a POS. But he is not guilty of being a pedophile.

 

[faible]

So? if it's overturned, he isn't guilty of it. You cannot be semi guilty of something. You either are or you aren't.

There's nothing wrong with being factually correct.

Pell can still be an incredible POS and certainly an enabler of other pedophiles without being labelled as a pedophile himself.

The High Court of Australia suggesting a Jury should have had doubt is far beyond a "legal technicality" by the way. Only someone with prejudice against Pell would minimise that High Court ruling to a "technicality".

Again Pell is a POS. But he is not guilty of being a pedophile.

A highly unusual High Court ruling for Australia’s most senior Catholic when we’ve repeatedly seen Catholics using influence in the political sphere to specifically make decisions to benefit their church and beliefs at odds with the rest of society.

Versus a Jury AND 2/3 of the judges on the Court of Appeals both finding him guilty and that it was an appropriate decision.

Spare me the woe is me technicalities about how this POS might not be a pedophile because he got a decision overturned based on a highly unusual appeal being allowed and a highly unusually technicality.

I’m comfortable labelling him a pedophile based on the jury verdict and the court of appeals verdict. I’m comfortable labelling him a POS based on the Royal Commission’s findings.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

A highly unusual High Court ruling for Australia’s most senior Catholic when we’ve repeatedly seen Catholics using influence in the political sphere to specifically make decisions to benefit their church and beliefs at odds with the rest of society.

Versus a Jury AND 2/3 of the judges on the Court of Appeals both finding him guilty and that it was an appropriate decision.

Spare me the woe is me technicalities about how this POS might not be a pedophile because he got a decision overturned based on a highly unusual appeal being allowed and a highly unusually technicality.

I’m comfortable labelling him a pedophile based on the jury verdict and the court of appeals verdict. I’m comfortable labelling him a POS based on the Royal Commission’s findings.

No issues that he is a POS.

By your opinion doesn't change fact. Thats all.

 

[faible]

No issues that he is a POS.

By your opinion doesn't change fact. Thats all.

The fact is he was found guilty by a jury, then that guilty verdict was upheld by the court of appeal.

He was granted a further appeal in highly unusual circumstances.

I’m comfortable with the first two verdicts as to the fact of whether he committed offences against young boys, ergo, pedophile.

Just one who had his guilty verdict(s) overturned on a technicality. The High Court never said he didn’t do the things the jury decided he did.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

So? if it's overturned, he isn't guilty of it. You cannot be semi guilty of something. You either are or you aren't.

There's nothing wrong with being factually correct.

Pell can still be an incredible POS and certainly an enabler of other pedophiles without being labelled as a pedophile himself.

The High Court of Australia suggesting a Jury should have had doubt is far beyond a "legal technicality" by the way. Only someone with prejudice against Pell would minimise that High Court ruling to a "technicality".

Again Pell is a POS. But he is not guilty of being a pedophile.

All this nonsense about a technicality is just that. There had to be a legal principle in order to grant leave to appeal. That principle was that the presumption of innocence was said to be overturned on appeal which was in ways an injustice. Having concluded that leave in favour of Pell the full HC of 7 judges then sat in the position of the appellate judges to determine if on the EVIDENCE it was open to the jury to conclude that it was reasonable in all the circumstances for Pell to have committed the crime. They said it WASN'T and so the conviction was quashed. It is always open to order another trial but they were so convinced 7 to nil that the original jury verdict was unsafe that they released him . Make no mistake this verdict was emphathic about Pell innocence in the matter. No technicality. Just overturning an unjust conviction

 

[geoffjennings79]

The spin in his brother's eulogy is unbelievable. Paints Pell as meeting victims in a scenario that never happened. And claims his Melbourne response as some sort of achievement - it was a cynical ploy to limit church payouts, nothing more.
David Pell is either a liar or an idiot. Or possibly both.

 

[nut]

So? if it's overturned, he isn't guilty of it. You cannot be semi guilty of something. You either are or you aren't.

There's nothing wrong with being factually correct.

Pell can still be an incredible POS and certainly an enabler of other pedophiles without being labelled as a pedophile himself.

The High Court of Australia suggesting a Jury should have had doubt is far beyond a "legal technicality" by the way. Only someone with prejudice against Pell would minimise that High Court ruling to a "technicality".

Again Pell is a POS. But he is not guilty of being a pedophile.

He was found not guilty …. That doesnt mean he wasn’t a pedophile…

 

[Angry Red Bull]

He was found not guilty …. That doesnt mean he wasn’t a pedophile…

Circular reasoning. You've made a subjective judgement about him being a pedophile and challenge people to prove he wasn't. Thanks but I'll just rely on the learned judges I think......that and the concept of presumption of innocence