Agreed. We might have won 8.5 matches last year, but we were flat track bullies/fair weather sailors. We weren't going to develop the hardness that it takes to win more matches than that and win finals. I think this year is as much about weeding out the dead wood from the club as it is learning the gameplan. By definition, the dead wood won't be committed to a more demanding gameplan. They're the ones that need to go. Every new player who joins the club will know what's expected of them from day one.
Roast Get stuffed
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Agreed. We might have won 8.5 matches last year, but we were flat track bullies/fair weather sailors. We weren't going to develop the hardness that it takes to win more matches than that and win finals. I think this year is as much about weeding out the dead wood from the club as it is learning the gameplan. By definition, the dead wood won't be committed to a more demanding gameplan. They're the ones that need to go. Every new player who joins the club will know what's expected of them from day one.
Devastating Boris
Premiership Player
I wouldn't stress too much. I have read somewhere that the group was only able to get to 60% of where elite athletes need to be to compete at afl level due to the stress it would have put on their bodies. This preseason they will get closer to where they need to be and things will get better.
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put any type of spin on it you want, but individual players and the team itself has gone backwards big time this year. Time will tell if this hard work will pay off, fact is despite of all Neeld's preachings we are slower, unfitter less skilled than last year. IMO this learning to adapt to a game plan is a cop out for our continual failings, other clubs have adopted new coaches and game styles with more success over the years. The other issue is our lack of developing players which is clear to see with our position on the ladder and the number of players in and out each week and players not performing.
RandB
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I think that Neeld has come to terms with that as well to a degree when in the coaches box. He seems more measured these days and focusing on the things we can control.
I expect our fitness to go up a notch next year but our skills are deplorable though and need some serious work. They are related to some degree but we've still got too many spuds on our list.
DaveyTrainxpress
Team Captain
Jones is a very good footballer but you can't say he is an A grader. I remember half the people on here bagging Jones last year... I think people love to throw that term around a fair bit! A graders are the likes of Ablett, Judd, Swan etc. We do not have one elite kicker in our team, Watts is probably our best. Missing a simple pass is not rocket science, it has nothing to do with games played or development. These players have been playing since they were kids and can't hit a 15m pass? What a joke!
Tulip
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Judd, Swan, Gaz usually go under the term 'elite'
A graders are your Swallows, Thomas', Boyds: High numbers, good users.
DaveyTrainxpress
Team Captain
He's still not an A grader though...
A-? B+? What's the difference?
Boom! There it is. We smashed Adelaide last year at the MCG by close to 100 points! Both teams have new coaches and new gameplans and while they have clearly improved and moved well up the ladder, we have clearly gone backwards are are sitting bottom of the ladder(not including the 2 new franchises). How long does it take to learn a new gameplan? It doesn't appear to be that hard. Kick it around the boundary and bottle it up as much as we can while winning contested ball. We don't have many line breakers in the team anyway, so this style of play should pretty much suit us.
Basic skill errors time and time again frustrate the hell out of me. These guys are paid good money to hit a bloody target, and they can't do it. Manning up around stoppages should be simple right? Well why do opposition sides always, I'll repeat, ALWAYS have 1 or 2 free players out the back of a pack? Jordie does a great job on 1 of the opposition's midfield stars, while the rest dine out on endless easy possession. To win a game of football i understand you must defend, and defend well. But you also need to win the ball and kick some bloody goals! Besides the GWS game, we have not looked like getting close to 100 points this season. Have we won a possessions count this season(besides GWS)? It's horrible to watch. Horrible and clearly the players we have in this side are not up to AFL standard in most areas. They are a terrible team. Half this list will need to be moved on in the next couple of years. We are still a long long way off being in the top 8 and it's bloody frustrating...
DrMubutu
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This exactly. It still baffles me that this team can come up with these skill errors week after week, and that the club maintains 'they need another preseason'. WHAT THE * WERE THEY DOING THIS PRESEASON?
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Off the top of my head the only other game we won the possession count was against Essendon and we won....funny that! And i agree with your other points game plan or no game plan it shouldn't excuse basic skill errors and manning up players at stoppages etc. We will struggle to win another game this year as we have no fire power up forward and with this game plan we barely have possesion of the ball, which mean the other side have possession and more chances to score.
SPC 98
Team Captain
He is an A grader.. If he was getting the support he needed, he would burn!! Gets his own ball, kicks goals from stoppages, hard as a nut with polish. Now learning how to spread from the contest to get cheap possession.
If you want to see how good he will be in 2 years, just look at Dane Swan...
The other clubs who got new coaches had further progressed lists than us
Sanderson took over a ready made list at Adelaide, as did McCartney (to a lesser extent) at the Bulldogs
Additionally, these clubs didn't need to be stripped back to bare bones are rebuilt
The style of footy we were playing under Bailey would see us have the occassional huge win when we caught the opposition napping and everything went right
But it would fail time and time again against good, switched on opposition
Neeld is left with a bunch of kids who clearly had it easy under Bailey (particularly on the training track) and a small number of mature 25 - 30 year old players who don't seem to posses the desire and intensity
We really cannot compare Neeld vs Sanderson vs McCartney right now
Look at another newish Coach in Chris Scott. Took the cats to a flag in his first year, a lot of that HAD to be because of the team he inherited (Buckley the same)
Now the cats have lost a number of their key players (Ling, Ottens, Mooney, Milburn), the going is much tougher
We can only judge Neeld and his development program after a period of years IMO
Sanderson took over a ready made list at Adelaide, as did McCartney (to a lesser extent) at the Bulldogs
Additionally, these clubs didn't need to be stripped back to bare bones are rebuilt
The style of footy we were playing under Bailey would see us have the occassional huge win when we caught the opposition napping and everything went right
But it would fail time and time again against good, switched on opposition
Neeld is left with a bunch of kids who clearly had it easy under Bailey (particularly on the training track) and a small number of mature 25 - 30 year old players who don't seem to posses the desire and intensity
We really cannot compare Neeld vs Sanderson vs McCartney right now
Look at another newish Coach in Chris Scott. Took the cats to a flag in his first year, a lot of that HAD to be because of the team he inherited (Buckley the same)
Now the cats have lost a number of their key players (Ling, Ottens, Mooney, Milburn), the going is much tougher
We can only judge Neeld and his development program after a period of years IMO
While I agree with most of your points, we can only go on what we have seen this year. And we have gone backwards(or at least stagnated). I agree Collingwood had a list ready to go. Buckley's job made easier for sure. Western Bulldog's is in a similar situation to ours albeit they have a few more decent senior players than we do. We lost to the Bulldogs and it's fair to say they have shown a lot more than us this year. Adelaide we flogged last year and they have flown past us.
We can't keep blaming it on our young list. Sylvia, Jamar, Moloney, Green, Davey, Rivers, Garland, Frawley, Jones, Clark, Bartram, Bate, Dunn, JMac, Martin and Petterd aren't young. That list isn't that bad on paper. So why has Adelaide flown past us with a new coach, while we have possibly gone backwards?
I understand we needed to be more defensive, but the Crows play a fantastic mixture of defensive style and attacking style of football. It's great to watch and the players have adapted accordingly. I can't see why our players couldn't play a similar style? The football we are playing is nearly unwatchable IMO. So either we aren't good enough or the coach has got it wrong. I'd say a mixture of both.
I'm certainly prepared to give Neeld time. Our list still needs a major overhaul(unbelievably). But our gameplan isn't working and is terrible to watch from a supporters point of view. And I can't see how our fortunes will majorly turn around with a couple of high draft picks next year. Neeld has a massive job ahead of him, and at this stage of his career, unfortunately does not have a pass mark next to his name.
Crusty Demon - I had a lengthy post typed out to respond - however my browser froze.
Condensed version - Sanderson took over an ultra fit - ultra disciplined unit at Adelaide - a lot of thanks to go to Neil Craig there. They already had some elite players and players who would run both ways
That is why they have flown passed us.
Of the players you listed
Garland, Frawley, Jones, Clark - All potential A Graders
Sylvia - Epitomises the troubles with our list
Moloney, Green, Davey - seem to be having trouble adhereing to the new regime
Jamar - Great ruck, doesn't off too much around the ground
Bartram - Good honest battler, chronic injuries
Bate / Dunn - modern game passed them by IMO
JMAc - hard at the ball, terrible decision maker
Petter, not cracking a game in the current team
Martin - has stagnated due to injury
My point is it is the 25 - 20 year olf bracket where we are suffering - the 150+ games experience players
I am not blaming our young list - I'm blaming our lack of these players
2000 to 2005 drafting killed us - and no coincidence it made Geelong
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One can only hope. There has to be a serious culling at years end - we have too many sub-par AFL players. They have had chance after chance and its time to cut our loses and get rid of the rubbish.
To quote a great man, You give me possessions, then I'll shut up.
