List Mgmt. Giles, anyone?

[Yezeha]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-18/giant-wants-out

Giles reportedly wants to get out of GWS. With ruck stocks thinner than a MacBook Air, I would be seriously concerned if the club wasn't considering recruiting this bloke.

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jonathan_Giles.html

Here are his stats. He's a pretty good goal-kicker for a ruckman. At 26 years old, he's in his prime and would be a good candidate to hold down the number one ruck spot for the next few years until Witts and Grundy reach their prime. I say forget recruiting another dud forward-ruck in Mitch Clark. Giles is the man.

 

[Shade]

For what it would take to get him.

hello no.

 

[TradeDraft]

Well with us Pretty Much Getting Clark.

We really don’t need Giles as he be behind Grundy and Witts and Clark can Pinch Hit in the Ruck IF needed

 

[mattys123]

We do need an experienced ruckman, but only as pure backup for Witts and Grundy, and I doubt Giles is going to want to come to us with little chance of playing senior footy.

We have a number 1 ruckman going into 2015, his name is Jarrod Witts.

 

[Demonalke]

If it came down to Giles v Sewell v Robinson. I would take Giles. Otherwise probably not.

 

[TradeDraft]

We do need an experienced ruckman, but only as pure backup for Witts and Grundy, and I doubt Giles is going to want to come to us with little chance of playing senior footy.

We have a number 1 ruckman going into 2015, his name is Jarrod Witts.

Well we said Grundy was our number 1 ruckman was Grundy in 2014.

So we should just give that Spot to 1 of the Kids straight away.

See how the Pre-Season Goes 1st

 

[frizzle]

Agree with Dave. Witts hasn't nailed down the #1 ruck spot just yet. Finished the year better than Grundy, but that can change quickly.
The 2 of them will hopefully push each other very hard.

 

[frizzle]

Just need a back up ruckman - Giles doesn't fit the bill. He will want & demand game time in the one's.

 

[Knightmare]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-18/giant-wants-out

Giles reportedly wants to get out of GWS. With ruck stocks thinner than a MacBook Air, I would be seriously concerned if the club wasn't considering recruiting this bloke.

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jonathan_Giles.html

Here are his stats. He's a pretty good goal-kicker for a ruckman. At 26 years old, he's in his prime and would be a good candidate to hold down the number one ruck spot for the next few years until Witts and Grundy reach their prime. I say forget recruiting another dud forward-ruck in Mitch Clark. Giles is the man.

I like Giles but if Mitch Clark comes to Collingwood he isn't a need.

I consider Giles a backup plan.

Clark may take longer to get his conditioning up to the required standard and may not dominate from round one but I prefer his chances, particularly in the front half of having an impact as unlike Giles he has averaged more than a goal a game before and nearing 3 goals a game in 2012. In his own right Clark is also capable of providing ruck depth and when he played as a full time ruckman back in 2009 has actually proven a more productive ruckman as someone more involved around the ground.

 

[Yezeha]

I like Giles but if Mitch Clark comes to Collingwood he isn't a need.

I consider Giles a backup plan.

Clark may take longer to get his conditioning up to the required standard and may not dominate from round one but I prefer his chances, particularly in the front half of having an impact as unlike Giles he has averaged more than a goal a game before and nearing 3 goals a game in 2012. In his own right Clark is also capable of providing ruck depth and when he played as a full time ruckman back in 2009 has actually proven a more productive ruckman as someone more involved around the ground.

Now looking at Clark's stats especially in 2011 and 2012, perhaps I was a bit harsh by instantly calling him a dud. He kicked a fair amount of goals especially considering the teams he was playing for. His physical and mental state at the moment means he is largely a risk and reward prospect though. Ideally, most clubs should have at least 3 capable primary rucks on their lists so I think we should still search for a back-up plan should Grundy and/or Witts get injured. Do you know of any mature aged ruckmen out of contract or outside of the AFL who could perform this role?

 

[Knightmare]

Now looking at Clark's stats especially in 2011 and 2012, perhaps I was a bit harsh by instantly calling him a dud. He kicked a fair amount of goals especially considering the teams he was playing for. His physical and mental state at the moment means he is largely a risk and reward prospect though. Ideally, most clubs should have at least 3 capable primary rucks on their lists so I think we should still search for a back-up plan should Grundy and/or Witts get injured. Do you know of any mature aged ruckmen out of contract or outside of the AFL who could perform this role?

Clark is sound depth through the ruck and I would even advise using him as the relief ruckman to play in combination with Witts or Grundy depending on whoever is performing with the majority of his minutes coming in the front half. In the surprising scenario both Witts and Grundy are injured I would be comfortable handing over the primary ruck role to Clark who as he did in 2009 showed he can play it well when given the responsibility.

With Grundy, Witts and Clark if necessary all capable primary rucks and all three and White able to play in a ruck combination and with Cox developing that is for me anyway the right mix.

If looking immediate options a delisted free agent could be an option. Maybe a Daniel Currie gets let go of. Outside the AFL to answer your question though Sam Baulderstone for me is the most interesting. Not ready to go right away but is an older ruckman who has come from some way back, improving substantially every year - mostly due to substantial weight loss. He finds plenty of it around the ground, uses it very well and is competitive through the ruck.
If we're ok waiting longer as an overager in the rookie draft Darcy Cameron is another with scope to improve.

If I did have one complaint regarding our ruck division it would be a lack of an elite ruckman who is a veteran and has the ability to mentor Witts and Grundy. Witts and Grundy as young ruckmen aren't taking us to a premiership, ruckmen peak in their mid-late 20s typically and early career are generally of limited usefulness to winning. Mumford last year if we could have traded for him, he would have been perfect as someone who could keep Witts and/or Grundy in the VFL developing and adding to their games as their bodies build up the requisite durability while also helping us win in the immediate and mentor both of them and help them develop and add to their games. Dean Cox this year while retired I'd be making a whopping big offer to have come back even for just the one season for the developmental benefit of Witts and Grundy but also to help us win more games as he is still a highly productive ruckman.

 

[Hva sher a]

Clark is sound depth through the ruck and I would even advise using him as the relief ruckman to play in combination with Witts or Grundy depending on whoever is performing with the majority of his minutes coming in the front half. In the surprising scenario both Witts and Grundy are injured I would be comfortable handing over the primary ruck role to Clark who as he did in 2009 showed he can play it well when given the responsibility.

With Grundy, Witts and Clark if necessary all capable primary rucks and all three and White able to play in a ruck combination and with Cox developing that is for me anyway the right mix.

If looking immediate options a delisted free agent could be an option. Maybe a Daniel Currie gets let go of. Outside the AFL to answer your question though Sam Baulderstone for me is the most interesting. Not ready to go right away but is an older ruckman who has come from some way back, improving substantially every year - mostly due to substantial weight loss. He finds plenty of it around the ground, uses it very well and is competitive through the ruck.
If we're ok waiting longer as an overager in the rookie draft Darcy Cameron is another with scope to improve.

If I did have one complaint regarding our ruck division it would be a lack of an elite ruckman who is a veteran and has the ability to mentor Witts and Grundy. Witts and Grundy as young ruckmen aren't taking us to a premiership, ruckmen peak in their mid-late 20s typically and early career are generally of limited usefulness to winning. Mumford last year if we could have traded for him, he would have been perfect as someone who could keep Witts and/or Grundy in the VFL developing and adding to their games as their bodies build up the requisite durability while also helping us win in the immediate and mentor both of them and help them develop and add to their games. Dean Cox this year while retired I'd be making a whopping big offer to have come back even for just the one season for the developmental benefit of Witts and Grundy but also to help us win more games as he is still a highly productive ruckman.

Agree in theory but in today's trade environment there would be a strong likelihood of either Witts or Grundy wanting to be traded if they were languishing in the VFL for too long. I totally agree with the whole development argument but try telling that to a young ruck who is being wooed by another club (eg Essendon or the Dogs).
I don't have a solution especially as I agree with what you're saying. At the same time, I very much like the idea of a Dean Cox coming in to mentor the kids.
If we do get Clark I'd be more assured of our ruck depth as Mitch is also capable of mentoring our young twin towers. And I'm a fan of White as a 2nd ruck as well

 

[Knightmare]

Agree in theory but in today's trade environment there would be a strong likelihood of either Witts or Grundy wanting to be traded if they were languishing in the VFL for too long. I totally agree with the whole development argument but try telling that to a young ruck who is being wooed by another club (eg Essendon or the Dogs).
I don't have a solution especially as I agree with what you're saying. At the same time, I very much like the idea of a Dean Cox coming in to mentor the kids.
If we do get Clark I'd be more assured of our ruck depth as Mitch is also capable of mentoring our young twin towers. And I'm a fan of White as a 2nd ruck as well

Dean Cox would only have been a one year rental presumably so Grundy and Witts would hardly under that circumstance request a trade.

Even with Mumford I feel he is someone Grundy and Witts would have been ok with playing behind because of what they can learn of him and as he turns 29 next year so I don't see his lifespan being so long as someone in the latter stages of his career.

But I agree in the case of Mumford in that calculation you do need to consider whether Witts or Grundy would feel motivated to ask for a trade whether that would have been immediate or down the track.

Clark I wouldn't see so much as a mentor for Witts/Grundy having only played the one year through the ruck and the other one season sharing the ruck duties but as a list fit I like him a lot as someone who will take the pressure off Cloke and in the front half as a second marking target and provide more than sufficient ruck depth, or take those relief ruck minutes for the next few years depending on the type of lineup we want to field.

 

[MagpieBat]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-18/giant-wants-out

Giles reportedly wants to get out of GWS. With ruck stocks thinner than a MacBook Air, I would be seriously concerned if the club wasn't considering recruiting this bloke.

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jonathan_Giles.html

Here are his stats. He's a pretty good goal-kicker for a ruckman. At 26 years old, he's in his prime and would be a good candidate to hold down the number one ruck spot for the next few years until Witts and Grundy reach their prime. I say forget recruiting another dud forward-ruck in Mitch Clark. Giles is the man.

Y, I've been a fan of Giles since he had that break-out year for GWS in 2012 (and I was dead-keen on getting him at the end of 2012, to be Jolly's 'assistant' and eventual replacement. Of course, that was before we drafted Grundy, so it kind of worked out for the better at that stage). Now that he's seemingly on the market again, I would definitely be interested in getting him.

Thing is though, he obviously wants out of GWS for more opportunity as a #1 ruckman playing senior football every week. He won't get that at Collingwood, with Witts and Grundy our priorities in developing, and Mitch Clark seemingly in the pipeline as a key forward. Unless we were to get Giles primarily as a 3rd forward/2nd ruck and shunt White to the reserves as a depth option (not entirely unreasonable a proposition), he'd be playing VFL most of the time.

However, if Giles came out and asked for a trade to Collingwood, then I would welcome him with open arms (and for the right price).

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in red and white next year...

 

[popin]

Don't need anyone. Just share the load between grundy and witts and if injuries we have white, clarke and now gault.
We need to get games into our young rucks to mature them...............

 

[THATSGOLD]

Yes to Giles. Chances are one or both of gritty are going to get injured. Giles would be a great addition to the list.

 

[Bay Pie]

Yes to Giles. Chances are one or both of gritty are going to get injured. Giles would be a great addition to the list.

WTF. Did you just make up a 'Bradjelina' type name for our ruckmen?

It's a no to Giles for me. Wants a more permanent role. He'd be back up with us.

 

[pugsville]

Not coming to Collingwood, would be third Ruck behind Grundy and Witts. It's why he's leaving GWS. If we didnt have Witts & Grundy then he would be a good get. If no one else interested he would be hnady depth player, but would get Better chances elsewhere. Other Clubs are a better fit for Giles and donest address area of weakness. (we want a backup ruck). If we don't get Clark there could be an argument in getting Giles to play predominately forward but I'm don't see him as good enough as a forward.

 

[THATSGOLD]

WTF. Did you just up a 'Bradjelina' type name for our ruckmen?

It's a no to Giles for me. Wants a more permanent role. He'd be back up with us.

We've lost a backup in Hudson. If Witts got injured long term I have doubts whether Grundy could ruck all season.
Our backup is White who should remain forward really given Reid is Mr Glass and Gault is won't be up to it.
Giles makes logical sense.

 

[Matt_352]

I see Witts, Grundy and Clark in the one 22 potentially White as well so not needed for mine.

 

[Bay Pie]

We've lost a backup in Hudson. If Witts got injured long term I have doubts whether Grundy could ruck all season.
Our backup is White who should remain forward really given Reid is Mr Glass and Gault is won't be up to it.
Giles makes logical sense.

Not if we get Clark.

Grundy, Witts, Clark should be enough coverage while White and in extreme cases Gault are additional resources.

In any case, Giles wants to play AFL. He'd know that we are committed to Grundy and Witts and they'd both play before him. Essendon makes more sense for him now that Ryder is bailing.

 

[MooreTreloar]

Agree, it's a no if we get Clark, still think we need a mature age ruck as a rookie/back up/vfl.

 

[suspect footskills]

If we weren't recruiting Clark then Giles would definitely be worthy of a close look. His debut first season at GWS showed he is quality and I'm sure any other club would have worked towards keeping him listed.
GWS' expected exodus will make very interesting viewing. I'm sure we're going to see plenty more stories like that of Miles in the coming years. There will likely be a couple that move each trade period who's values will become scrutinized with each and every game. It'll be interesting to see what type of return GWS will reap compared to their initial outlay. So far they've done really well in maximizing player trade value though I don't imagine that is going to continue to be the case as larger numbers leave all at once. Some bargains are definitely going to emerge that much is sure.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Agree, it's a no if we get Clark, still think we need a mature age ruck as a rookie/back up/vfl.

Yep - I think we need a backup for insurance more than anything else - and I don't think Giles will come particularly cheap. (nor would he be happy playing in the 2's most of the year).

We could look for a veteran on another team who's also not getting games there (someone like an Orren Stephenson, or Jon Griffin-type) or scout the state leagues to see if their are any quality rucks running around there.

People have suggested Cox as a player/coach - but I don't think he would leave the Eagles given they've already said he will coach next year (I believe) - and I would rather we go for an established ruck coach (bring back Monky... though that may not be very likely)

 

[domin8tors]

think there was a similar thread a month back about getting a mature age ruckman.. my comments are that is we were going to we would have done is last year, so It makes no sense to do it a year later when Grundy and Witts are now more matured. throw in the American dude Cox. " all be it not expecting anything ' corey Gault, and Keefe lets not forget is 201Cm. plus with the likely addition of Clarke I really don't think that we need to spend $$$ and a draft pick on another ruck