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Ginbey/Lalor incident
- Thread starter tiger_tough
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Isn't it? Cos James Frawley was reported (and copped a $2000 fine) for a push a few years ago? It was even used as one of the examples of a reportable Offence available to clubs which were processed in accordance with tribunal guidelines.
Example 25 - James Frawley on Jeremy Cameron (Round 8, 2019) Careless Conduct, Low Impact, Body Contact
So yes, a push can, and has very much been graded as rough conduct in the past. Now add a concussion and broken jaw into the mix.
At the very least it's worthy of discussion and I think I've been completely objective.
Cool story about your injuries, it's completely irrelevant here
FYI
View attachment TcuBF6oDKncPWKrN.mp4
Also, in your example, pretty damn obvious that if you push a bloke over the boundary line they'll crash into the fence.
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A player is not a fence.
As evidence by Hopper pushing Day into a teammate and breaking his collarbone.
No suspension.
- Apr 5, 2016
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So there are examples of this rule being applied to marking contests? It seems it’s only applied when fences or umpires are involved.
- Thread starter
- #82
Clearly Hopper pushes Day in the side, there was no head knock/concussion, and Day was able to get his arms out to try protect himself. So not really apples and apples, is it?
Yes, its pretty damn obvious if you push someone into something/someone, they'll hit it....
This is where intent needs to be considered.
If the intent was to push someone into a dangerous situation such as a fence or a pack of bodies then yes, misconduct might be considered.
However, if there is no intent to push a player into a dangerous position then you can't call it misconduct, unsportsmanlike etc.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that Ginby had absolutely 0 intent to push an opposition player into the back of a team mate running backwards in a vulnerable position. He was clearly trying to shift him sideways to protect his team mate and got it wrong. Is anyone trying to argue this point and still thinks Ginby intended to push Lalor into the back of his teammate floating back, arms in the air, ribs and kidneys ripe for destruction?
So you are saying misconduct has to be graded as intentional to apply and can't be graded as careless?
If so do you have any proof for this or did you just make it up?
No, you are wrong, that's not what I'm saying.
I only need to refer to your quoted interpretation: "generally is any conduct which would be reasonably regarded as unacceptable or unsportsmanlike".
Are you saying that unacceptable or unsportsmanlike conduct can be accidental?
Pushing would happen 100s times in a game. It probably happens 20 times in the centre square before the ball is bounced and another 10 times while players are in motion competing for the ball each centre bounce. The action itself is intentional but it is not unacceptable or unsportsmanlike unless the player has the intent to push a player into a dangerous position.
Both terms in a sporting context, infer there is an element of intent to injure or put the player in a dangerous position. By the way the word is intent- careless, reckless, intentional are all levels of intent in the MRO matrix, it doesn't need to be rated intentional for there to be intent.
As I asked before, do you honestly think Ginbey had ANY intent to cause Lalor to cannon into the back of Brock?
I'll admit, it would not surprise me if the AFL do lean on that rubbery catch all of misconduct to test this out. But I think the clear lack of intent to place the player in a dangerous position but rather push him out of the way to protect his team mate will be enough for a half competent lawyer to clear him if they go down that path.
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Fcku me, you can be trying sometimes.
This Hopper one has always been legal.
1. It is a push in the side.
2. it is legal to bump or push players when jostling for ground balls providing it is done legally(re high or low contact for eg)
3. the player in Newcombe's position should expect forceful legal contact.
4. the player in Day's position should expect the possibility of forceful contact from the front in this scenario, though shouldn't expect to be infringed, which he wasn't.
It is an unfortunate one and clearly there is danger in this scenario, but part of that is caused by the 2 Hawks players going for the same ground ball. Part is also caused by Hopper pushing Newcombe so forcefully, though legally as far as a I can see.
The differences as I see them in the Ginbey incident is Ginbey is not legally allowed to push lalor in the back. As it is a marking contest he is also not allowed to push Lalor out of the contest with force unless he gets his hands to the ball, which he never even looks like doing. And he is definitely not allowed to push him in the back at speed into an oncoming player.
Here is one part of the Tribunal guidelines that mentions this type of scenario:
Thirdly, consideration will be given not only to the impact between the offending Player and the Victim Player, but also any other impact to the Victim Player as a result of such impact. By way of an example, where a Victim Player as a result of the impact from the offending Player is pushed into the path of a fast-moving third Player, the impact to the Victim Player may be classified as High or Severe, even though the level of impact between the offending Player and the Victim Player was only Low or Medium.
In addition, consideration will be given to the body language of the offending Player in terms of flexing, turning, raising or positioning the body to either increase or reduce the force of impact.
- Mar 19, 2020
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Change Reuben Ginbeys name to Colby McKercher and its a non discussion.
Sad really
Sad really
Well, some Richmond supporters on here believe you drafted 18 #1 picks last year if that makes you feel betterWhy the **** did it have to be our #1 pick though
- Thread starter
- #92
Why would that change anything? He's a relative no name in Victoria.
Strange call.
They will be waiting a long time if it's at a Tiggers home game
Osho
Watch Me Jumpstart I'm Maximum Jack.
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Players are ALWAYS pushing oppo here and there to advantage their own players getting the ball. Pushing them off their line away from a marker, running interference, impeding their approach to a ball carrier.
What do people want? Further dilution of the game?
What do people want? Further dilution of the game?
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It is actually not legal to do that if you are not contesting the mark. The gray area is where two players are jostling for position. In the Ginbey incident, he had been out jostled for front position, then decided to focus solely on pushing his opponent from behind into the oncoming player, and did not attempt to contest the ball. This is completely illegal in a marking contest, and Lalor would not have been expecting it as one of the legitimate possibilities, and therefore he had no viable defence against it.
When Ginbey decided on that one final gratuitous shove of a fast moving player into an oncoming player, he was choosing Lalor's fate for him. In doing so he did not exercise sufficient care and will therefore be charged with rough conduct graded careless conduct, high contact an either high or severe impact, likely the latter.
Unless the AFL does another "Maynard" of course and fails to apply its own rough conduct provisions correctly.
You actually want people to believe that Ginby thought the ball was going to travel 3-4 metres further than it actually did? I know professional footballers can be dim at times, but there is no way he calculated that the ball would get to where he was standing.
Looking forward to West Coast supporters booooing Lalor at their first opportunity for daring to encroach on Ginbey's territory 
What is that photo supposed to be establishing?
That it's a push in the back, not the 'side' like you've convinced yourself.
Here's 2 later frames.
If you're going to deliberately lie to yourself and everyone else that it was in the 'side', then you need to stop posting in these threads, because you're clearly delusional.
