Goddard

[Slattery_20]

Does Goddard's last two years warrant so much excitement? Maybe a change of scenery will reinvigorate him. But the guy is 28 and I'd argue his best days behind him. Essendon don't look likely to challenge for a flag for a couple of years. Overall, I don't think Saints should be too upset over it

No, but not far off.

Either way they'd be backing themselves to egt him back somewhere close to his 2010 form. Most of it's in his head.

 

[Cosmic Energy]

Hypocrisy on AFL 360 last night was a bit rich. Both Robbo and Gerard suggesting in a fairly cynical tone that Goddard only went for an extra $100,000 per year, which conventiently ignored the fact that he was offered an extra year by the Bombers which, for a player who will be 30+ at the end of his next contract, is nice as some extra security approaching what would be his twilight years in the game.

5 minutes later, they have mentioned a few more names being bandied around in FA circles, then start going on about how some players have given their all at their club over the years and can get a bit burnt out and might need a fresh challenge.....I'm sorry, what?! How does this second part not apply to Goddard....anyone?

I have a feeling 2011/2012, particularly 2012 has hurt his "likeability" & reputation...or at least the media are working that angle. Guys like Leigh Matthews saying he was no longer playing like a leader, looking petulant, perhaps not getting his hands dirty as he once was. So whereas after the 2010 grandfinals he was a "warrior" and there was lots of love towards him, it seems as if the love has gone.

I guess what I'm saying is if it was Lenny Hayes and not Goddard, or say a Brad Sewell type, I doubt they'd be calling them mercenaries.

 

[Slattery_20]

I have a feeling 2011/2012, particularly 2012 has hurt his "likeability" & reputation...or at least the media are working that angle. Guys like Leigh Matthews saying he was no longer playing like a leader, looking petulant, perhaps not getting his hands dirty as he once was. So whereas after the 2010 grandfinals he was a "warrior" and there was lots of love towards him, it seems as if the love has gone.

I guess what I'm saying is if it was Lenny Hayes and not Goddard, or say a Brad Sewell type, I doubt they'd be calling them mercenaries.

Never struck me as a particularly involved, vocal leader in the first place. Very good, hard player, clearly a hard worker on & off the field, but not a Maxwell or Hayes type - more a Scarlett type personality.
Takes all sorts.

 

[Tiger71]

Really for me thier paying the salary you would expect for a player that wins games off thier own boot, does goddard do that and will he continue to do that in 2 years when he is 30 ? To me personaly, it smells of desperation. It makes no sense to pay a buddy franklin type wage to a half back flanker regardless to what team he went to.

Speaks volumes about the culture diffrence between the Saints and Essendon and thier values as a group.

 

[The House]

I don't think it's about what St Kilda could have paid Goddard, more about what St Kilda thought was a fair deal, considering other players on the list and the projected worth of younger players on the list that are expected to improve, and by their own rights, earn more in seasons to come.

The figures coming out of the club are that he was offered upwards of $600k per year, so not exactly a long way away from what he is reportedly contracted for at Essendon.

At any rate, Kosi is on the veterans list and doubtful he would be on a very big contract, though obviously bigger than Blake as we delisted Blake last season (who was on the veterans list) to make room for Kosi. I believe Kosi already had a contract extending into 2013 so delisting him wouldn't free up any room in the cap, and it's highly doubtful he could have been traded (or if he was traded, we'd likely still pay a large chunk of his wage anyway).

I think Goddard simply wanted to leave St Kilda, for reasons best known to himself. Maybe he sees Essendon as a team more likely to challenge for the ultimate success in the next few years, and it wasn't as much about the dollars as the fans would somehow like to think it is.

Really who knows what the offers were - last night I heard from someone that claims to have a very good idea that the saints were offering around 475K per year, and I also heard from someone that claims to have a very good idea that it was closer to 600K....

....but yeah you're right when you say it's not about what the Saints could have offered.

And maybe with the way he's played the last 18 months suggest that he would be better off moving to a new club - if he was stale/wanting a new environment for whatever reason/new coach/jaded/whatever, maybe both offers were fair based on what he would likely have contributed at each respective club - i guess time will tell, somewhat.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I am not against Essendon recruiting Goddard but the two scenarios are quite different. Collingwood were preliminary finalists with a glaring need for a ruckman before recruiting Jolly and even then they also got Luke Ball to fill another need. Essendon didn't make the finals last year. They aren't Goddard from a flag. From playing in September maybe but that is a hellof a long way from a premiership.

Collingwood addressed a glaring need.

Essendon have addressed a glaring need.

Comparing the scenarios has complete validity. I'm not going to tell you we are only Goddard away from a flag; like I'm not going to tell you we aren't. What I will say, and I'm sure you'll agree, is that he gets us much closer. As for Essendon not making the finals last year, that's completely true. But I think it's unlikely we'll have such debilitating injuries again.

I hope.

 

[calyam]

Really for me thier paying the salary you would expect for a player that wins games off thier own boot, does goddard do that and will he continue to do that in 2 years when he is 30 ? To me personaly, it smells of desperation. It makes no sense to pay a buddy franklin type wage to a half back flanker regardless to what team he went to.

Speaks volumes about the culture diffrence between the Saints and Essendon and thier values as a group.

Please name a player who wins games off his own boot? Seriously one of the most absurd and meaningless phrases there is.

As for the culture statement, was does that even mean? And how can it 'speak volumes' when the sentence does not even mean anything?

 

[Terror Time]

Goddard is a hack, who still finished top 4 in the Saints B&F, was still offered a contract to make him one of the highest players at their club (just no 4th year), still led the club for most kicks per game in 2012, and was second for disposals per game. He was one of the best players in the competition for two years while his side was challenging for the premiership, and he is 27 years old and in his physical prime.

And Essendon didn't have to give up anything for him.

Yet he's not worth about the same as Mitch Clark...

He gets votes based partially on his likeability. He got a ton of kicks floating across half back with no man. I remember one game this year when their was a number of us pissed off with Goddard on the St Kilda board that within 2 minutes he gave away a free kick, then kicked the ball out on the full with no pressure and then handballed or kicked it straight to the opposition player.

He did the above after we were pissed off with him so this had be going on for a while. He was a focal point in any case so that explains the rather high possession count but i'll take the hard ball winners like Montagna, Hayes and Dal Santo any day and then some thanks. Quality of possession in my eyes counts for alot. Look at a player like Saad for example, he might only get his hands on it a few times but he can be as damaging as anyone.

 

[reincarnated]

Really for me thier paying the salary you would expect for a player that wins games off thier own boot, does goddard do that and will he continue to do that in 2 years when he is 30 ? To me personaly, it smells of desperation. It makes no sense to pay a buddy franklin type wage to a half back flanker regardless to what team he went to.

Speaks volumes about the culture diffrence between the Saints and Essendon and thier values as a group.

Richmond efforts to get Port' players into their club speakers how desperate they've become and how low they've sunken. They've decided it is better getting spuds to replace the hacks, which they think is an improvement. Getting Knights speaks a lot of volume too. They think SANFL standards is better than Richmond standards.

Is Hardwick going to get the chop first, they will probably finished ninth or below again next year.

If they lose to GC again for the third time in a row, they should be kicked out of the competition.

 

[Stopher]

It'd not surprise me at all in the near future to mention Ross Lyon leaving as being something that at least affected Goddard to some degree. Not saying Scott Watters can't coach, but the way in which Lyon left might have left him thinking 'why should I bother, then?' and seeing free agency was only a year around the corner, sat tight until then.

Not saying it justifies each and everything he has done in that time, but it might help explain it.

 

[lamaros]

He gets votes based partially on his likeability. He got a ton of kicks floating across half back with no man. I remember one game this year when their was a number of us pissed off with Goddard on the St Kilda board that within 2 minutes he gave away a free kick, then kicked the ball out on the full with no pressure and then handballed or kicked it straight to the opposition player.

He did the above after we were pissed off with him so this had be going on for a while. He was a focal point in any case so that explains the rather high possession count but i'll take the hard ball winners like Montagna, Hayes and Dal Santo any day and then some thanks. Quality of possession in my eyes counts for alot. Look at a player like Saad for example, he might only get his hands on it a few times but he can be as damaging as anyone.

Goddard was fourth for contested possessions. Don't get carried away now.

 

[TommyJay]

Richmond efforts to get Port' players into their club speakers how desperate they've become and how low they've sunken. They've decided it is better getting spuds to replace the hacks, which they think is an improvement. Getting Knights speaks a lot of volume too. They think SANFL standards is better than Richmond standards.

Is Hardwick going to get the chop first, they will probably finished ninth or below again next year.

If they lose to GC again for the third time in a row, they should be kicked out of the competition.

Isn't this thread about Goddard, Essendon and St Kilda?

The guy never said Richmond was doing perfectly you know...

 

[Terror Time]

Goddard was fourth for contested possessions. Don't get carried away now.

I seriously wonder how that's the case but if that's what the stats say

 

[Tiger71]

Please name a player who wins games off his own boot? Seriously one of the most absurd and meaningless phrases there is.

As for the culture statement, was does that even mean? And how can it 'speak volumes' when the sentence does not even mean anything?

Players that win games off thier own boot ( cant believe you seriously asked the question lol )

Buddy
Cloke
Cotchin
Dangerfield
Walker

The above have all by themselves have put in an effort thatt has got thier team across the line, hell Goodes did it on the weekend. Could you see goddard able to handle a forward role with no PCL when he cant even do it at 100% fit ?

Im not having a go with him moving, good on him. But to pay so much over what he is worth is just crazy IMO. I could just understand it if he also improved Essendons structre but he dosent, yeah he will improve the list slightly but not the reported $700k plus worth of improvement.

As to my remark about culture. Seems the Saints are sticking to thier guns in regards to thier list management were as Essendon has really started to lock money away for 4 and 5 years. Hurley and now goddard has removed over 2million from your list for atleast 4 years. Where as Saint Kilda have a plan and are sticking to it, its going to be funny in 4 years time so see who made the right call

 

[Morris Major]

Isn't this thread about Goddard, Essendon and St Kilda?

The guy never said Richmond was doing perfectly you know...

Team A supporter criticised Team B's actions in a thread specifically on that topic
Over sensitive Team B supporter slags off Team A in response

It's classic BF

 

[Tiger71]

Richmond efforts to get Port' players into their club speakers how desperate they've become and how low they've sunken. They've decided it is better getting spuds to replace the hacks, which they think is an improvement. Getting Knights speaks a lot of volume too. They think SANFL standards is better than Richmond standards.

Is Hardwick going to get the chop first, they will probably finished ninth or below again next year.

If they lose to GC again for the third time in a row, they should be kicked out of the competition.

O'rly ? Chaplin is the only Port player we actually have commited to and he fills a need and structre requirment that any neutral would understand. Also thiers a huge diffrence in price we are paying for his services lol. Also before you mention Knights, again, he address a need and has a clear role. He is of a age we need ( just turned 26). He is a HFF who can rotate in the middile ( the only other we have that can sorta do that is Nahas with limited success).

Thats completley diffrent then the tigers commiting 700+ for a sweeper for 4 years. Now I understand ( typical BF) that you recon im having a go so you will go on the attack BUT seriously, If essendon had offered say 500 for 2 with an option for a 3rd I would say well done but you guys havent. Thats the reason for my question. Again in 4 years time it will come across as a good decsion or not.

 

[calyam]

Players that win games off thier own boot ( cant believe you seriously asked the question lol )

Buddy
Cloke
Cotchin
Dangerfield
Walker

The above have all by themselves have put in an effort thatt has got thier team across the line, hell Goodes did it on the weekend. Could you see goddard able to handle a forward role with no PCL when he cant even do it at 100% fit ?

Im not having a go with him moving, good on him. But to pay so much over what he is worth is just crazy IMO. I could just understand it if he also improved Essendons structre but he dosent, yeah he will improve the list slightly but not the reported $700k plus worth of improvement.

As to my remark about culture. Seems the Saints are sticking to thier guns in regards to thier list management were as Essendon has really started to lock money away for 4 and 5 years. Hurley and now goddard has removed over 2million from your list for atleast 4 years. Where as Saint Kilda have a plan and are sticking to it, its going to be funny in 4 years time so see who made the right call

None of those players have ever won a game off their own boot. The statement is now, as it has always been, completely meaningless. What you meant to say is that all those players have had great games. Turns out that Goddard has had some pretty handy games as well and in 2010 was probably in the top 2 to 3 players in the league. Of the players you listed only Buddy has ever been good enough to be considered in the top few players in the league.

Essendon have pursued a plan of signing up their best players and improving their list where possible. It appears that signing Goddard is consistent with this plan. What exactly is St Kilda's plan? I'm sure you don't know it but I'm also pleased that they are sticking with it. What is clear however is that Essendon improved their list at the expense of Goddard, one team became better at the expense of another.

 

[livnixon9]

None of those players have ever won a game off their own boot.

That is incorrect.

Cloke has won plenty off his own boot. 2011 PF, 2011 game against Sydney where he kicked 6 goals in a 10 point win, 2012 game against WC where he kicked 6 goals against WC in a 1 point game, etc, etc.

 

[Tiger71]

None of those players have ever won a game off their own boot. The statement is now, as it has always been, completely meaningless. What you meant to say is that all those players have had great games. Turns out that Goddard has had some pretty handy games as well and in 2010 was probably in the top 2 to 3 players in the league. Of the players you listed only Buddy has ever been good enough to be considered in the top few players in the league.

Essendon have pursued a plan of signing up their best players and improving their list where possible. It appears that signing Goddard is consistent with this plan. What exactly is St Kilda's plan? I'm sure you don't know it but I'm also pleased that they are sticking with it. What is clear however is that Essendon improved their list at the expense of Goddard, one team became better at the expense of another.

So your happy your club has payed over 700k based on his 2010 form ? Have improved thier list in the short term ( maybe) based on your assumption he will rekindle his 2010 form ? You got to remember this is a guy who was inconsistent this year compared to his "standing" as a 200+ gamer. My god, little adam maric tackled him and goddard wasnt strong enough to get away and win his side the game.....

 

[Slattery_20]

I remember when the Cats were saying GAJ was shit & selfish & finished etc.

 

[Rack Watts]

I remember when the Cats were saying GAJ was shit & selfish & finished etc.

It all sounds VERY familiar.

 

[MeisterBot]

Win/win IMO. Saints don't have to pay overs for a disinterested player and Essendon gain a high quality player with skill and experience. Changing clubs might be good for Goddard and reinvigorate him.

Everybody was saying Ball was finished as a player at the end of his stint at St. Kilda: too slow, can't kick, etc. But this year has shown that he's possibly our most important midfielder in a group that includes the likes of Swan, Pendles, Beams and Thomas.

Plus it fills a need for them. The Bombers need silk in the midfield until Heppell grows bulk, consistency and ticker. Shutting down Stanton goes a long way to beating their midfield, having Goddard there ensures that at least one of them gets off the chain.

Now is it overs? Yeah, probably.

But the money has to go somewhere and I'm pretty sure Essendon would rather spend it on Goddard than on some of the spuds that inhabit their list.

 

[calyam]

That is incorrect.

Cloke has won plenty off his own boot. 2011 PF, 2011 game against Sydney where he kicked 6 goals in a 10 point win, 2012 game against WC where he kicked 6 goals against WC in a 1 point game, etc, etc.

By that logic, anyone who has kicked a goal in a game that was decided by under a goal has won the game off their own boot. The notion that anyone 'wins the game off their own boot' is at odds with the very nature of football. In a team with 18 players on the field, no individual is ever dominant enough to do that. It just does not happen.

All you've told me is that Cloke has had some really good games. I agree he has. He's a very good player. So is Goddard.

So your happy your club has payed over 700k based on his 2010 form ? Have improved thier list in the short term ( maybe) based on your assumption he will rekindle his 2010 form ? You got to remember this is a guy who was inconsistent this year compared to his "standing" as a 200+ gamer. My god, little adam maric tackled him and goddard wasnt strong enough to get away and win his side the game.....

Essendon's list has unambiguously improved. There is no implicit assumption involved in that. They received a very good player and they gave up nothing. Essendon are a better team with Goddard than without him and his value is whatever the market says he is worth. This is true regardless of whether Adam Maric can tackle him or not.

 

[Call Me Cake]

The man almost won a Grand Final off his own boot.

The Saints have starved him of the opportunity of playing to his best ability, injury aside. He will shine much brighter in our line-up. We are on the up, whereas the Saints will be lucky to play a final in the next 6 years. Even the coach jumped off that sinking ship while he still could.

His experience and leadership will tie in well with Watson's. Now that Watson is a Brownlow medalist, he is bound to get the extra attention next year.

Best thing is we've lost nothing as a result, we haven't given up any of our young talent, they're all under lock and key. They will look up to him as we charge up the ladder.

Can you imagine it now?

Goddard, sizzling kick to... HURLEY.

And this won't be the end for Essendon's Free Agency raid - it has only begun.

Can't wait for 2013. Just wanna see the guy lead on the field, wherever we play him.

 

[Plugger35]

It'd not surprise me at all in the near future to mention Ross Lyon leaving as being something that at least affected Goddard to some degree. Not saying Scott Watters can't coach, but the way in which Lyon left might have left him thinking 'why should I bother, then?' and seeing free agency was only a year around the corner, sat tight until then.

Not saying it justifies each and everything he has done in that time, but it might help explain it.

Goddard was pretty poor in 2011 when Ross Lyon was still there. There might have been a mental let down after losing back to back GFs which affected some of our players for a while but most of them have recovered from that whereas Goddard hasn't.

Maybe a change of clubs will help him but if Essendon are struggling and don't look like being in premiership contention or finals contention then maybe the same problems will occur.