Gold in the Rough

[BEEarcher]

For those who actually believe the Eagles recruiting since 2006 has been good and I say that in most endearing term I hope you can see that not only the policy for recruiting needs to change but also those who have made the decisons. eg masten over palmer, rioli, dangerfield etc

Okay a rookie is saying this but I have been a Eagles member since 1991 and seen the fruits of mature age recruiting and draft nous. I only missed the Judge years being in London but still listened to the derby in Turkey through the internet down at Olympus staying in a Treehouse!

Anyways that is off point. The eagles in 92 and 94 were not 17, 18 year olds that grew up in an Eagles outfit you can mount a case for a number were battled hardened through the WAFL system: Mainwairing, Turley, Wilson (richmond), Harding (hawks), lamb (subiaco), pyke (claremont), Heady (subi), Waterman (easts), Hart (south freo) etc Why not take Jetta is beyond explanation!

Its interesting following this through that for the 2006 premiership without the obvious Judd choice there was decent and I underline decent trades for older players Stenglein (in line for captain at Adelaide) and Chick (all australian half forward) helped us win the trophy. You could also argue a choice like rookie pick Armstrong (perth, melbourne) got us over the line. I touched the ball as it bounced through the crowd sitting next too Andrew mcneish. (I made him sign my guernsey)

You have to wonder the policy about recruiting duds and lets face it without NicNat we would be saying wow we got Masten (3), ebert (13), Notte (20), S selwood (22) and I say that the other recruiters chose correctly. I would prefer Myers, Morton, Henderson, Palmer, McEvoy, Dangerfield, Pears, Rioli, Grimes, Taylor! .

2008 jury is out on Nic, Swift, Shuey, Jones and Smith as lets compare to Freo who chose with later picks Hill, Ballytyne, Suban, Ruffles but look at the killing in the rookie draft. West Coast: Bedford (WTF), Cockie Freo: Sibasoda (WTF); De Boer, van berlo, pearce, broughton. There is a new leader in choosing rookie selections and it aint us! Cox is old news and Lynch well if we win another premiership with him (including Hansen) I would be happy but surprised.

For those thinking we drafted well lets just take a look at Sydney. Youth is not always the best policy! Okay we got one gold in rough (nicknat) but look at the other picks and look also at rookie selections ie fremantle choosing mature age jets (and I despise freo but respect their recruiting choices)

Let me know your thoughts if your not interested in what I have to say thats fine I just needed to offload. Possible next topic: It could be time to sack Worse Fold with Three of a Kind (Premierships)

Cheers for reading my rantChris MastenEast FremantleWest Coast14Cale MortonClaremontMelbourne15Jarrad GrantDandenong StingraysWestern Bulldogs16David MyersPerthEssendon17Rhys PalmerEast FremantleFremantle18Lachlan HendersonGeelong FalconsBrisbane Lions19Ben McEvoyMurray BushrangersSt Kilda110Patrick DangerfieldGeelong FalconsAdelaide111Patrick VeszpremiNorthern KnightsSydney112Cyril RioliSt Marys/Scotch CollegeHawthorn113Brad EbertPort Adelaide MagpiesWest Coast114Jack GrimesNorthern KnightsMelbourne115Robbie TarrantBendigo PioneersKangaroos116Matthew LobbeEastern RangesPort Adelaide117Harry TaylorEast FremantleGeelongPriority18Alex RanceSwan DistrictsRichmond219Callan WardWestern JetsWestern Bulldogs220Tony NotteSwan DistrictsWest Coast221Addam MaricCalder CannonsMelbourne222Scott SelwoodBendigo PioneersWest Coast223Tayte PearsEast PerthEssendon

 

[JADED]

Harding (hawks)

Or
Harding (Saints)......

The game has changed muchly since those days. It's all about the draft.
I'm not one to expect EVERY draft decision to be the holy grail. No one can predict that. Teams will get some right, some wrong and it will be cyclical for eternity.

I have no issues with Masten over Palmer.

We could have done a little better in the rookie draft of late. Bit more research.

Essendons baby bombers won the 93 flag with youngsters right between our 92 & 94. Should they delist anyone over 25 & draft up based on what happened 18 years ago?

 

[Clay Davis]

You have to wonder the policy about recruiting duds and lets face it without NicNat we would be saying wow we got Masten (3), ebert (13), Notte (20), S selwood (22) and I say that the other recruiters chose correctly. I would prefer Myers, Morton, Henderson, Palmer, McEvoy, Dangerfield, Pears, Rioli, Grimes, Taylor! .

I would prefer Masten to:

Myers, Morton, Henderson, McEvoy, and Taylor.

Not sure about Ebert.

2008 jury is out on Nic, Swift, Shuey, Jones and Smith as lets compare to Freo who chose with later picks Hill, Ballytyne, Suban, Ruffles but look at the killing in the rookie draft. West Coast: Bedford (WTF), Cockie Freo: Sibasoda (WTF); De Boer, van berlo, pearce, broughton. There is a new leader in choosing rookie selections and it aint us! Cox is old news and Lynch well if we win another premiership with him (including Hansen) I would be happy but surprised.

I reckon your 2008 draft is fine. So is ours. The only difference is that we went a lot deeper, therefore it seems we did better, simply because we have more players from the 2008 draft showing some potential.

Rookies are a gamble. Sibosado is quite unlikely to make it at this stage, but a long-term prospect. The rest of the rookies are just that, rookies. May or may not make it. Broughton is the only one who is established.

look also at rookie selections ie fremantle choosing mature age jets (and I despise freo but respect their recruiting choices)

I'm quite proud of the mature agers we've selected, but you have to understand that these were necessitated by the woeful drafting during the Connolly years. We are filling in age gaps that you guys filled with first round ND picks while you were up.

In hindsight, your problem is probably not cutting deep enough at the end of 2009 and going deeper into that draft. We got a couple of blokes deep in the ND who look quite capable of playing AFL footy at this early stage.

 

[galen]

Ive been mulling over the fact our midfield is so woefully terrible at the moment. The obvious question is why? We knew the problem was coming years ago, the line nup of :

Rosa - Priddis - Dalziell
A.Selwood - P.McGinnity

Lacks pace, class, x-factor and decent disposal.

Things we immediately lost when Judd and Cousins moved on. Sure Kerr adds all of those elements but where are our new recruits? The year we drafted masten we knew we were short in those areas. Why is it the midfield we fielded the past 2 weeks is just so astonishingly bad.

Lets review who played tho...

Masten (2007-#3) - hasnt come good yet, this is our pick 3. He hasn't to date justified that pick. I personally am of the view he will come good. However it looks like his OP is back, hes played out of position and over the last few years there hasnt shown enough of the good stuff and far too much of the bad stuff.

Ebert (2007-#13) - i think he's a workhorse. He's not going to deliver on pace, class, xfactor. Hes not going to take a game and turn it. That being said you still need players like Ebert to backup the guns.

Scott Selwood (2007 - #22) - see ebert.

This leaves the following midfield high draft picks not played:

Luke Shuey (2008 - #18)
Tom Swift (2008 - #20)
Bradley Sheppard (2009 - #7)
Gerrik Weedon (2009 - #22)
Koby Stevens (2009 - #23)

Now admitedly there isnt many games played amongst that lot. We've seen hints at what Shuey and Swift can do. We've seen WAFL and videos about Shepp. In those 3 you have the potential for class, x-factor, game winning ability. However with only a dozen or so games of experience amongst them they shouldnt be asked to turn it on to save us in their first couple of seasons.

Remember we WANTED Bastinac in 2009 he was ready made. We also wanted Jetta and Bennell in 2008 (some pace + x-factor). And i'm of the view we wanted Ballyntine as well, just not with the over-priced pick that freo used on him. (At the time it seemed so stupid.)

I dont have an opinion on Weedon yet. He was taken higher then anyone else rated him so there is some implied pressure on the justification of that pick. Stevens I think he'll be more of the workhorse type. I have no problems with these players but they need the classier types there to feed to.

My long winded point is we have drafted players that are supposedly going to resolve our midfield issues. We more then likely wont get any real relief from this for a couple of years at least.

For now I think it's fair to question our 2007 picks; If uninjured Masten needs to step up and start leading some games instead of being a passenger. I'm of the view you should be showing this sort of stuff by your 3rd year being a #3 draft pick. Pendlebury did (2nd year), Selwood did (1st year), Palmer did (1st year), Cooney did (3rd year) heck even Hill has (1st/2nd year).

Thats my rant, this was the closest related thread that i could sink this in.

My points relative to the OP;
-masten needs to show more
-we have drafted class but they wont be saving us anytime soon.
-we've been pipped at the draft table a couple of years running now
-freo has definately out-performed us on draft day for a couple of years now.

 

[galen]

The following list are midfield prospects who have shown more then our respective draft picks in the associated years.

Midfield Prospects

2007 - (Masten #3, Ebert #13, #22 S.Selwood)
#2 Cotchin
#4 Cale Morton
#7 Palmer
#10 Dangerfield
#12 Rioli
#14 Grimes (defender i know)
#19 Callan Ward

My view: this is the only draft that we can really start assessing. As it stands right now I would say it hasn't performed as well we would of liked.
The midfield talent did not run that deep in this draft and some picks really paid better then expected. Rioli and Palmer really. We were never going to get morton and cotchin was gone. Dangerfield would of been too high for #3 and Ebert probably looked the best of what was left. These guys should be coming good now but out of the 3 only masten has the potential to turn the game around.
Rioli and Palmer are the standout picks and the ones we can rue.


2008 - (#18 Shuey, #20 Swift)
#3 Hill
#4 Hartlett
#6 Yarran (fwd i know)
#7 Rich
#9 Ziebell
#11 Sidebottom
#24 Suban
#29 Beams


Its obvious this was a super-draft. No one doubts the selection of NN at #2. Its sad however how deep the midfield talent goes and what we could of had access too. I think the picks of Shuey and Swift were very very astute and these guys will come good. Shuey has a horror 2009 and it's well documented what Swift has been through. It's fair to say these guys are basically 1 year behind their peers. 2012 would be fair to do the same review we just did for Masten.

What stings tho is the 1st and 2nd year success of some of these high picks in comparison to Masten. I think a good question to ask is where would Masten of gone in the 2008 draft. I wouldn't be surprised if he didnt make the top #10.


2009 - (#7 Shepp, #22 Weedon, #23 Stevens)
Pointless to compare those that have played to those that haven't so i'll skip 2009.


So in summary, my opinions,
-2007 was a week draft that inflates mastens expectations, 2 standout picks we missed makes 2007 sting even more.
-2008 we drafted well but our midfield picks are behind the pack due to injuries.


The end result backs up my previous post. We have to field a midfield of plodders because our 2008 classier-types are behind the pack.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

For those who actually believe the Eagles recruiting since 2006 has been good and I say that in most endearing term I hope you can see that not only the policy for recruiting needs to change but also those who have made the decisons. eg masten over palmer, rioli, dangerfield etc

Okay a rookie is saying this but I have been a Eagles member since 1991 and seen the fruits of mature age recruiting and draft nous. I only missed the Judge years being in London but still listened to the derby in Turkey through the internet down at Olympus staying in a Treehouse!

Tree house aside - we must have just missed each other.

Let me get this straight - you like having the slightly more mature bodies in the team in the 90's as they have had time to develop in the WAFL - yet you are not happy letting guys like Masten and Notte develop into mature bodies?

We can't afford to wait until they are all 20/21 as the other clubs will have snaffled them all!

 

[such is ben]

Not sure what pick P.mcginnity was but he is the same age as masto...21 and was picked up as a tagget because in the 18s carnival he nullified numerous key players including keeping cotchin very very quiet. That is why he was picked up and late at that. PD draft maybe. Give him time hel b good is all I'm saying. He cops alot of
criticism but he is only young and only played a handful of games

 

[bunsen burner]

eg masten over palmer, rioli, dangerfield etc

I'll take Masten over Palmer. Lot's of other clubs missed Rioli. That happens. Dangerfield was also an astute and inspired choice by the Crows. A lot were surprised.

Its interesting following this through that for the 2006 premiership without the obvious Judd choice there was decent and I underline decent trades for older players Stenglein (in line for captain at Adelaide) and Chick (all australian half forward) helped us win the trophy. You could also argue a choice like rookie pick Armstrong (perth, melbourne) got us over the line. I touched the ball as it bounced through the crowd sitting next too Andrew mcneish. (I made him sign my guernsey)

These guys were traded right before we were going to win the flag. Totally different situation where we are now. We have no real business trading for established players over the last 3 seasons.


I reallt don't think you know a lot about footy. That's not to say we haven't recruitedpoorly, but the way you envision the big picture is amateurish.

 

[adagio]

The criticism of Masten continues to surprise me. Look more closely at his career to date.

2008: Played 9 OP-affected games coming off a limited pre-season. A fine effort considering, as a general rule of thumb, there should never be any expectations on 1st-year players. He even snuck in a couple of Brownlow votes.

2009: Played 19 games before injuring himself late in round 20. In the first half of the year the effects of OP were still lingering, inhibiting both fitness and form. In the second half of the year he really came good, averaging 24.7 disposals from rounds 10-19. This included a 38-disposal effort and Rising Star nomination in round 16, and over this period his footskills sharpened up noticeably too.

2010: B.O.G. in the club's first intraclub game, racking up possessions at will and looking very classy with the ball. In the first 5 rounds of the season proper, he's been used almost exclusively in a half-forward role in an effort to develop other facets to his game and perhaps due to the injury he suffered at the end of '09. This is a notoriously difficult position to play and one quite foreign to Chris, but regardless he has managed to average 17 disposals and 3 marks a game. Continues to use the ball well.


The point? Once Masten is back in the centre full-time he will be not only back to his late 2009 form, but better, given his added strength, fitness and development since then.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

The point? Once Masten is back in the centre full-time he will be not only back to his late 2009 form, but better, given his added strength, fitness and development since then.

He started on ball against Sydney and added nothing - and had to be moved.

Half-forward, wing, half-back, centre - it's all pretty much the same position nowadays.

Cousins still dominated at half-forward - if Masten was playing well - he'd play well at half forward as well.

He's not in good form - it's a simple as that.

 

[ziad]

He started on ball against Sydney and added nothing - and had to be moved.

Half-forward, wing, half-back, centre - it's all pretty much the same position nowadays.

Cousins still dominated at half-forward - if Masten was playing well - he'd play well at half forward as well.

He's not in good form - it's a simple as that.

Absolutely well struck falcon

 

[sammyg77]

The criticism of Masten continues to surprise me. Look more closely at his career to date.

2008: Played 9 OP-affected games coming off a limited pre-season. A fine effort considering, as a general rule of thumb, there should never be any expectations on 1st-year players. He even snuck in a couple of Brownlow votes.

2009: Played 19 games before injuring himself late in round 20. In the first half of the year the effects of OP were still lingering, inhibiting both fitness and form. In the second half of the year he really came good, averaging 24.7 disposals from rounds 10-19. This included a 38-disposal effort and Rising Star nomination in round 16, and over this period his footskills sharpened up noticeably too.

2010: B.O.G. in the club's first intraclub game, racking up possessions at will and looking very classy with the ball. In the first 5 rounds of the season proper, he's been used almost exclusively in a half-forward role in an effort to develop other facets to his game and perhaps due to the injury he suffered at the end of '09. This is a notoriously difficult position to play and one quite foreign to Chris, but regardless he has managed to average 17 disposals and 3 marks a game. Continues to use the ball well.


The point? Once Masten is back in the centre full-time he will be not only back to his late 2009 form, but better, given his added strength, fitness and development since then.

Dominated that game in the middle for us against the Bombers. His link up work with Kerr was great that night. I do remember him in a fair bit of pain with his groin in the last qtr of that match (incident occurred in front of where I was sitting). I firmly believe something happened that night.......He hasnt been the same since.

Why would play a guy who dominated the intra-club and first NAB Cup games in the middle of the ground as a Forward Flanker in the real season?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I might add that just because he's out of form - doesn't mean i think he's a dud - just that finding excuses for his form is just that - excuses.

I think he'll be a quality part of our midfield going forward - however at the minute - i think a few weeks playing WAFL woudn't hurt!

 

[Snooperclyde]

He started on ball against Sydney and added nothing - and had to be moved.

Half-forward, wing, half-back, centre - it's all pretty much the same position nowadays.

Cousins still dominated at half-forward - if Masten was playing well - he'd play well at half forward as well.

He's not in good form - it's a simple as that.

Looks like this on face value but I wonder if it's more complex.

When the young mids fired in those last five games last year, they had less senior mids to get in their way.
Masten, Ebert, Swift, Houlihan and McGinnity were given the responsibility in the engine room. Playing midfield, on ball and the rotation players on the pine.
It is worth noting that we had LeCras playing forward in those winning teams.

See teams below

West Coast round 18
B: Matt Spangher, Darren Glass, Adam Selwood
HB: Sam Butler, Mitch Brown, Shannon Hurn
C: Matt Rosa, Matt Priddis, Tim Houlihan
HF: Andrew Embley, Josh Kennedy, Scott Selwood
F: Quinten Lynch, Callum Wilson, Mark LeCras
Foll: Nic Naitanui, Chris Masten, Brad Ebert
I/C: Pat McGinnity, Ben McKinley, Tom Swift, David Wirrpanda
Emg: Ryan Davis, Eric Mackenzie, Tyson Stenglein

West Coast round 19
B: Adam Selwood, Darren Glass, Mitch Brown
HB: Shannon Hurn, Beau Wilkes, Sam Butler
C: Matt Rosa, Matt Priddis, Tim Houlihan
HF: Andrew Embley, Josh Kennedy, Scott Selwood
F: Mark LeCras, Callum Wilson, Quinten Lynch
Foll: Nic Naitanui, Brad Ebert, Chris Masten
I/C: Pat McGinnity, Ben McKinley, Tom Swift, David Wirrpanda
Emg: Ryan Davis, Chad Fletcher, Will Schofield

West Coast round 20
B: Adam Selwood, Darren Glass, Mitch Brown
HB: Shannon Hurn, Beau Wilkes, Sam Butler
C: Matt Rosa, Matt Priddis, Tim Houlihan
HF: Andrew Embley, Josh Kennedy, Scott Selwood
F: Mark LeCras, Callum Wilson, Quinten Lynch
Foll: Nic Naitanui, Chris Masten, Brad Ebert
I/C: Pat McGinnity, Ben McKinley, Tom Swift, David Wirrpanda
Emg: Ryan Davis, Chad Fletcher, Will Schofield

West Coast round 21
B: Matt Spangher, Darren Glass, Adam Selwood
HB: Sam Butler, Beau Wilkes, Shannon Hurn
C: Matt Rosa, Matt Priddis, Tim Houlihan
HF: Andrew Embley, Josh Kennedy, Scott Selwood
F: Quinten Lynch, Callum Wilson, Mark LeCras
Foll: Nic Naitanui, Tom Swift, Brad Ebert
I/C: Ryan Davis, Ben McKinley, Brent Staker, David Wirrpanda
Emg: Chad Fletcher, Jamie McNamara, Will Schofield

West Coast round 22
B: Matt Spangher, Darren Glass, Adam Selwood
HB: Sam Butler, Eric Mackenzie, Shannon Hurn
C: Matt Rosa, Matt Priddis, Tim Houlihan
HF: Chad Fletcher, Josh Kennedy, Scott Selwood
F: Andrew Embley, Quinten Lynch, Mark LeCras
Foll: Nic Naitanui, Tom Swift, Brad Ebert
I/C: Pat McGinnity, Ben McKinley, Brent Staker, David Wirrpanda
Emg: Ashley Hansen, Jamie McNamara, Will Schofield

This year we have Adam Selwood, Kerr and at times Embley added in the midfield and I wonder if the young guns are subconsciously making way for the more senior players.

Long bow to draw but it could be a factor.

The whole team needs to lift though, not just the young guns.

 

[joeyavalanche]

DO NOT KNOW WHY Embley is playing on the wing still!
Look at those previous teams from last year and our pre-season squads.

No Embley and Selwood in the center.
Playing forward and back pocket respectively....

When we have had the kids in the middle + houlihan we have looked much more classier and direct.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Looks like this on face value but I wonder if it's more complex.

When the young mids fired in those last five games last year, they had less senior mids to get in their way.
Masten, Ebert, Swift, Houlihan and McGinnity were given the responsibility in the engine room. Playing midfield, on ball and the rotation players on the pine.
It is worth noting that we had LeCras playing forward in those winning teams.

People said Headland was only good because he got to play behind senior players.

Senior mids can't be both a hindrance and an assistance.

Ben Cousins kicked 5 goals on debut as a forward pocket - he played there almost his entire debut season - behind the likes of kemp, matera, etc

Didn't stop him performing and didn't stop him developing.

If you're in form, especially nowadays - you'll find the pill

 

[West123]

I think the jury is still out but imagine what our mid would look like if it was Selwood & Priddis throwing there body round winning footy and Rioli and Hill streaming down each wing...

 

[Snooperclyde]

People said Headland was only good because he got to play behind senior players.

Senior mids can't be both a hindrance and an assistance.

Ben Cousins kicked 5 goals on debut as a forward pocket - he played there almost his entire debut season - behind the likes of kemp, matera, etc

Didn't stop him performing and didn't stop him developing.

If you're in form, especially nowadays - you'll find the pill

I never meant the senior players were a hindrance, more the young players cannot expect the senior players have right of way.

The young mids need to be just as aggressive now as they were last year and attack the footy, not just assume that the Selwoods and Kerrs will get the ball and therefore give them first crack if they are in the area.

Masten and Swift especially have held back at times this year and I am suspicious of why

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I think the jury is still out but imagine what our mid would look like if it was Selwood & Priddis throwing there body round winning footy and Rioli and Hill streaming down each wing...

Imagine if we took Polak instead of Judd.... it's unrealistic to expect we are going to win them all.


And the only way we'd have Hill would be to not have NicNat

 

[BEEarcher]

In 2001 there was also a strong chance the Eagles would of selected bartel than sampi as well or in 1997 simon black rather than Rowan Jones! With two top 5 draft picks Judd and Sampi (besides Richmond) you should pick a star of the competition particularly in a superdraft such as that in 2001. Without Judd and the previous top 5 pick of McDougall you would of questioned back then about the choices the Eagles made.

I know people will say we got Lynch in the rookie draft but seriously how many other teams would have him ahead of their full forward at the time. With Judd, Cousins, Kerr delivering I think Fev (rumoured but sounds like him)said he would of kicked 150 if Woosha would trade for him! Wouldn't of surprised as Lynch is an ordinary full forward and with a decent forward Eagles would of won in 2005 considering Phil Matera was our best forward then and now Mark Le Cras. If you look through the full forward lists of the competition you would battle to make a case for Lynch.

On another note I believe that in today's age of scouts, draft camps, psychologist testing etc that most teams today are quite astute at drafting players. Therefore there is a less chance in who is not going to make it at the top end. The trick is with the amount of data and footage available (and the Eagles have a lot of money invested in the area) the teams are judged on who gets it right at the top end and equally importantllly at the bottom end.

I agree with posts about Masten (injured, young etc) and I hope he shows more but at this moment the quality moments are at best glimpses.

 

[bodazoka]

When the young mids fired in those last five games last year, they had less senior mids to get in their way.
Masten, Ebert, Swift, Houlihan and McGinnity were given the responsibility in the engine room. Playing midfield, on ball and the rotation players on the pine.
It is worth noting that we had LeCras playing forward in those winning teams.

Long bow to draw but it could be a factor.

The whole team needs to lift though, not just the young guns.

Firstly it was the hard running, great disposal and goal kicking efforts of Embley that lifted that team at the end of last year towards some wins. The kids followed absolutely but Embley lit a fire under them by stepping up.

Secondly, whilst LeCras was named in the forward line he spent more time in the midfield towards the end of the year then he ever has before. Averaged 20 disposals a game over the last 5 games and when we lost against Fremantle in round 17 it was one of those wank "proofs" that we were tanking when we put LeCras in the middle in the 4th quarter.

20 midfield disposals from LeCras and Embley's 7 Goals 2 (playing wing) with an average of 25 quality disposals from Embley is what lifted that midfield more then any of the kids.

 

[Avalor]

Firstly it was the hard running, great disposal and goal kicking efforts of Embley that lifted that team at the end of last year towards some wins. The kids followed absolutely but Embley lit a fire under them by stepping up.

Secondly, whilst LeCras was named in the forward line he spent more time in the midfield towards the end of the year then he ever has before. Averaged 20 disposals a game over the last 5 games and when we lost against Fremantle in round 17 it was one of those wank "proofs" that we were tanking when we put LeCras in the middle in the 4th quarter.

20 midfield disposals from LeCras and Embley's 7 Goals 2 (playing wing) with an average of 25 quality disposals from Embley is what lifted that midfield more then any of the kids.

Houihan too Boda. I think we are really missing him. I've watched a couple of those games again from the back end of last year - especially the WB game, when Houli ran from HB through the middle to finish off with a goal. He made lots of great runs in those last 6 games or so. Provided great dash and carry. Rosa has good running abilities too, but he doesn't have Houilan's speed - his line breaking skills.
We are really missing that from him, even if his kicking was a bit iffy.
Why oh why did the silly bugger go and put his foot through a plate glass door?

 

[Snooperclyde]

Firstly it was the hard running, great disposal and goal kicking efforts of Embley that lifted that team at the end of last year towards some wins. The kids followed absolutely but Embley lit a fire under them by stepping up.

Secondly, whilst LeCras was named in the forward line he spent more time in the midfield towards the end of the year then he ever has before. Averaged 20 disposals a game over the last 5 games and when we lost against Fremantle in round 17 it was one of those wank "proofs" that we were tanking when we put LeCras in the middle in the 4th quarter.

20 midfield disposals from LeCras and Embley's 7 Goals 2 (playing wing) with an average of 25 quality disposals from Embley is what lifted that midfield more then any of the kids.

"When the young mids fired"

That statement did not decree that they were the sole reason we won those games, it was a reminder that they produced their best football when there was no shoulder to lean on.

I am trying to comprehend why the form they delivered in those games has not been replicated/built on, so far this year.

I can only build two scenario's

a) they are star struck by having the senior players in the middle or

b) they feel less pressure to perform because the senior players returning should be expected to to carry the majority of the load.

We are near screwed if b) is the reason but all is not lost if a) has been a factor.



I backed Embers when he won the 'Norm Smith' so I clearly respect his ability and influence in the team.
Some have been critical of his performances so far this year but you will not find a post by me that has less than praise for Embers.

Lecca slotted 15 goals in those last five games and you can lay claim to him being fantastic in the midfield if you like but I comply with his need as a goal kicking forward.

The craft of small goal kicking forwards has been underestimated by some but Mick Malthouse leads the league in innovation and it is clear he rates them highly.

A close look at Carlton might also reveal that covering the Fevola loss with small forwards has produced more wins than finding an alternate tall forward.

 

[bodazoka]

I have also wondered why we are not able to replicate that form from last year, the differences being:

1. Swift was a very solid contributer 3 brownlow votes v Richmond (is a kid though and inconsistant)
2. Masten was running through the midfield (Dont know why this has changed)
3. Embley was a standout (Embley is 15% down on his form over those games compared to 2010)
4. LeCras ran through the midfield (Spent moslty all of 2010 up forward)
5. Houlihan was providing lots of run and carry, line breaking stuff (Injured)
6. McKinley kicked 10 goals 6 in those 5 games (was obviously not in the team in 2010)
7. Butler, Hurn and Lynch were all playing there roles well and were all in the team for those wins (dropped, injured and suspended in 2010)

We also had a great run against poor teams. Essendon at Subi is always a win they dont travel well at all ever, Bulldogs away was obviously a great win, then North back at home, Adelaide away we got belted and then we played Richmond at home.

All those changes IMO have more to do with the drop in form then the kids being hampered by senior players. I think that argument is a red herring and an excuse. When a team plays well its because of those players with that 50+ games experience, there are no teams out there which are playing well based on kids with under 50 games experience. Even Melbournes mini surge is based on more senior players.

 

[bodazoka]

Houihan too Boda. I think we are really missing him. I've watched a couple of those games again from the back end of last year - especially the WB game, when Houli ran from HB through the middle to finish off with a goal. He made lots of great runs in those last 6 games or so. Provided great dash and carry. Rosa has good running abilities too, but he doesn't have Houilan's speed - his line breaking skills.
We are really missing that from him, even if his kicking was a bit iffy.
Why oh why did the silly bugger go and put his foot through a plate glass door?

Abolutely true, and we went and made it even worse by putting Dalziell in the team to cover for him. Sure we needed the run but Dalz ended up being a poor substitute for him. Dont expect much out of him this year though with the injury.