Remove this Banner Ad

Graeme Swann

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

T

Tyberious Funk

Premiership Player
Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2005
Posts
3,500
Reaction score
5,446
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
West Coast
So far in this series, Graeme "Best spin bowler in the world" Swann has an average of 37, and a strike rate of 80. Absolutely no talk whatsoever of him being dropped.

Hauritz has a career average of 34 and a strike rate of 66, but got dropped after a couple of bad games against India in India. He'd hardly be the first spinner to struggle bowling against the Masters of Spin.

IMHO, the English have shown great faith in Swann (and he's repaid them). Hauritz, on the other hand, has been guilty of the most heinous crime of Not Being Warne.

How long before the selectors 'fess about and admit they ****ed up?
 
for what it's worth swann is much improved but is still overrated.... not in the sense that he's not a good bowler. he's just a good off spinner. but the way scribes and commentators were saying "here comes the best spinner in the world" it was as if they thought he was gonna come and bowl hand grenades.

as for hauritz, he has been harshly treated. he's not as good an off spinner as swann, but he's still a solid option. much more solid than doherty and (most likely) beer.

the problem is andrew hilditch has that lawyer mentality where he can't be wrong and doesn't want to admit to being wrong, and if he stays as chairman of selectors for an extended period that is going to hurt the australian team.

brad hodge was extremely harshly dealt with (as all vics on here point out time and time again), but at least when that was happening to hodge he was stuck in a queue behind good players and the team was travelling very well.

but whilst the team is struggling you can't have that mentality at all. sometimes you've just gotta suck it up and admit your wrong, which is what should've happened with hauritz coming back into the squad for doherty. but i don't think hildtich has much of an ability to admit when he is wrong.... nor do i get that feeling to much from david boon or greg chappel. jamie cox i don't know a lot about as a person to be honest.

on top of that most sportsmen are fairly egotistic, and naturally in this process the selectors are going to be sportsmen. so that's another extenuating factor for the lack of seeing "ok we got it wrong, back you come".

hauritz should never have been dropped in the first place. he had been our spinner for 18 months prior to this series. fair enough if he was average in this series then look at options after it. but another huge ashes series was not the time to go experimenting with spinners.
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

ManWithNoName said:
No left arm spinner has ever done well here, except Vettori.
Click to expand...

tumblr_l9whvuvPNN1qa8qy8o1_400.jpg
 
Not really been a series for Swann to shine though. WIth England's pace ripping through. He has hardly got a bowl on the 4th and 5th days which is what he's there for. The one time he got a decent second innnings bowl late in the game in Adelaide he did well.
 
He was abysmal in Perth as well. I am sorry but the bloke as much as he is a nice bloke (and I have met him a few times- quite funny actually), he is the best of a really poor bunch of spinners!
 
If Swann is the best spinner in the world it really does tell you what the state of world cricket is like. He is passable and should end up getting 300 wickets (once a benchmark) quite comfortably but that is as far as it goes.

For a top flight spinner he gets carted more than a lot, if any batsmen decides to take him on they seemingly do so with ease, even the Siddle wicket was a metre from being 6. To his credit he was still tossing them up.

I wonder how much 50 over and T20 is destroying the art for a more economical push them through mentality which is showing up in the lack of decent test spinners around the world.
 
Folks are kinda missing the point. I wasn't having a go at Swann. IMHO, he has bowled reasonably well given that Australian conditions don't tend to help offspinners that much.

I just thought it was interesting to compare him against Hauritz, who got trashed by our selectors... basically because he only has a fraction of the ability of Shane Warne. But when you put him against a guy like Swann, he starts to look a whole lot better. Swann is definitely the better bowler... but the gap is not THAT huge. With the support of the selectors, and a captain that actually knows what to do with him, Hauritz could be more than passable.
 
Tyberious Funk said:
So far in this series, Graeme "Best spin bowler in the world" Swann has an average of 37, and a strike rate of 80. Absolutely no talk whatsoever of him being dropped.

Hauritz has a career average of 34 and a strike rate of 66, but got dropped after a couple of bad games against India in India. He'd hardly be the first spinner to struggle bowling against the Masters of Spin.

IMHO, the English have shown great faith in Swann (and he's repaid them). Hauritz, on the other hand, has been guilty of the most heinous crime of Not Being Warne.

How long before the selectors 'fess about and admit they ****ed up?
Click to expand...

Although i sense your post is more in fustration of Australia's treatment of their spinners rather than Greame Swann, I really dont see why there would be any talk of dropping the highest wicket taker in world for 2010, with an average of 25, strike rate of 54.

He also has second best economy rate of any of the top 10 wicket takers, shaded slightly only by Anderson, and the closest spin bowling record is Singh, and his average for this year is 40

Whilst Swann hasn't looked as dangerous as Anderson, Tremlett or perhaps even Bresnan, apart from one 9 over spell in perth, Swann has done the job for England, and who really expects spinners to be doing the damage in perth and brisbane.

Yesterday Swann kept the pressure on Australia as Bresnan took the spoils for the day, ideal test match spin bowling

Test match cricket is about patience and partnerships, whilst he isn't taking the big hauls, of 5/and 6/, Swann ties down an end, whilst offering enough variation to always have a chance of taking a wicket. He hasn't bowled as dangerously as i've seen him bowl at other times this year, but that isnt to say he hasnt done the job England have required of him in this series
 

Remove this Banner Ad

He bowled beautifully this Test, unlucky with some dropped catches and what not, and deserved more.

Didn't bowl as well as he would've liked at the Gabba but it was hardly disastrous. Perth was the only Test he didn't do as well in, but that was because Strauss refused to bowl him

Australia would love someone like Swann, he is by far and away better than anyone we have in the country.

He seems to be the kinda spinner that is top class but will always be questioned and criticised by the idiotic mass called cricket supporters
 
maybe swann is unearthing some plan to come back for the 2014/15 ashes and bowl both left and right handed.....
 
Tyberious Funk said:
Folks are kinda missing the point. I wasn't having a go at Swann. IMHO, he has bowled reasonably well given that Australian conditions don't tend to help offspinners that much.

I just thought it was interesting to compare him against Hauritz, who got trashed by our selectors... basically because he only has a fraction of the ability of Shane Warne. But when you put him against a guy like Swann, he starts to look a whole lot better. Swann is definitely the better bowler... but the gap is not THAT huge. With the support of the selectors, and a captain that actually knows what to do with him, Hauritz could be more than passable.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Hauritz is the best spinner in Aus and should play in Sydney. He wont because the selectors will look stupid especially if he does well.

Funny how Aus seem to go through spinner after spinner but dont give any batsman a chance when thats the teams biggest issue.

Warne and Murali have made being a good spinner very hard, everyone is compared to them and proclaimed to be ordinary, Swann is a perfect example. Hauritz is an even bigger one.

Spinners get smashed sometimes and if a batsman is on there's little a spinner can do. People forget Lara, Tendulkar and Pieterson belted Warne to all parts, and he didnt get them out very often. Does it mean Warne was no good?

A spinners average cant be compared to a pace bowler because a spinner can bowl all day so they have more value. 34 is pretty good for a spinner in general. anything below 30 is exceptional.
 
The statement still works if you add in off spinner as well, for the last 15-20 years anyway. Harris performed a similar role to Swann. Murali never did anything in Australia, don't think Singh has either. Maybe Saqlain.
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Furn said:
Funny how Aus seem to go through spinner after spinner but dont give any batsman a chance when thats the teams biggest issue.
Click to expand...

batsmen have always got an extended period to prove their worth.

if a bowler has two poor games he is under pressure. three poor games and he's out.

but some batsmen get 15-20 poor innings before he is hooked out of the team.

this isn't just going on now with the current australian team. that has gone on for as long as the game has been played.

it's got a fair bit to do with when a batsmen is going through a rough trot you don't really get to see much of him. i.e. if he has 10 poor innings where he averages 20 that's 200 runs and probably faced about 400 balls. a bowler in poor form can have two bad games and might still bowl 400 balls in that time. so a bowler in poor form is in the game much more than a batsmen who's in poor form.

that's got a bit to do with it... but it's more to do with the fact you need your bowlers firing to win matches. if your carrying a bowler your bowling attack is reduced to 75% or 80% strength (depending on whether you have a fifth option). and if you can't take 20 wickets, you can't win matches. simple as that.

but if you're carrying a batsmen, you still have six other recognised options and the tail can also chip in.... and in any case teams win test matches all the time with 400 to 500 runs on the board across their two innings, although this obviously requires you to bowl very well.

the problem we have with our current batting line up is we aren't carrying one batsmen. we have as many as four guys who don't look like getting a score, two of whom are our captain and vice captain and the effects of them not being able to make a score are mutliplyied as that lack of confidence and form permuates through the team.
 
Selective Retention said:
Harris performed a similar role to Swann.
Click to expand...

Seriously? You seriously comparing those two?

One is a spinner, another is a slow medium bowler. One can win you a match by taking bags, another just... keeps it tight if he can. One is top class, another is shit

Swann already won England the Adelaide Test, I think he's been very good this series.
 
Hoggy said:
How many edges went through Prior and Strauss/Collingwood at first slip off Swann?

He should have a lot more wickets than he does.
Click to expand...

Also gotta look at the total score while he's bowling, you can apply pressure and the bowler at the other end gets the results.

While Swann was bowling in melb in the 2nd innings Aus would have been what ? 7-8-9 for 160 odd. He only got 2 wickets but its hard to bowl when there runs leaking from the other end.

going back to Hauritz. SA who most on here rate as the best team around have Harris who averages 37, but he plays every game for them.
 
Cooldude said:
Seriously? You seriously comparing those two?

One is a spinner, another is a slow medium bowler. One can win you a match by taking bags, another just... keeps it tight if he can. One is top class, another is shit

Swann already won England the Adelaide Test, I think he's been very good this series.
Click to expand...

Not as bowlers overall.

His series here v. Harris here when SA won would be similar.

It was a post about the general ineffectiveness of slow left arm and off spinners in Australia.

Swann and Harris have done ok here, nothing more.
 
Black Thunder said:
batsmen have always got an extended period to prove their worth.

if a bowler has two poor games he is under pressure. three poor games and he's out.

but some batsmen get 15-20 poor innings before he is hooked out of the team.

this isn't just going on now with the current australian team. that has gone on for as long as the game has been played.

it's got a fair bit to do with when a batsmen is going through a rough trot you don't really get to see much of him. i.e. if he has 10 poor innings where he averages 20 that's 200 runs and probably faced about 400 balls. a bowler in poor form can have two bad games and might still bowl 400 balls in that time. so a bowler in poor form is in the game much more than a batsmen who's in poor form.

that's got a bit to do with it... but it's more to do with the fact you need your bowlers firing to win matches. if your carrying a bowler your bowling attack is reduced to 75% or 80% strength (depending on whether you have a fifth option). and if you can't take 20 wickets, you can't win matches. simple as that.

but if you're carrying a batsmen, you still have six other recognised options and the tail can also chip in.... and in any case teams win test matches all the time with 400 to 500 runs on the board across their two innings, although this obviously requires you to bowl very well.

the problem we have with our current batting line up is we aren't carrying one batsmen. we have as many as four guys who don't look like getting a score, two of whom are our captain and vice captain and the effects of them not being able to make a score are mutliplyied as that lack of confidence and form permuates through the team.
Click to expand...

Off course being a batsman myself it sux that you can make one miskate or get one great ball and its 2 weeks till you get another go. you can me in good nick and just not get the breaks to show it.

But i think a spinner is different to pace bowlers, a spinner can change things up, and can bowl alot of overs, They dont have to be taking 5fers to be contributing. They give the pace bowlers a rest and can tie down an end.

When the conditions are right eg. 5th day, a spinner can come into his own and win the game. But it doesnt always happen. Hauritz for me can do the first part. Its winning games on day 5 where he struggles but he is still the best option. Not many spinners do well against India which was his last series and why he was dropped.
 
of course dropping hauritz was a poor decision. not even in hindsight, doherty was never going to be able to do the job.

but this comes back to my first post in this thread about andrew hilditch. he's clearly very stubborn and not willing to accept he is wrong. they are two very very bad qualities to have in any selector in any sport at any level, let alone for the chairman.

hauritz is be no means a gun, but he's a solid option, and as it stands right now he's the best option we've got.

with a bit of luck steven o keefe will keep his good form up over the course of the season and that could possibly be enough to get him in the team and we'll see how he goes.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top Bottom