Greg Williams

[Kong]

I was wondering if anybody here could help me.
I came across Greg Williams' wikipedia page (reliable, I know ) and saw that before Williams left Geelong, he actually won the first of his two MVPs.

Apparently he only played 30-odd games over two seasons, yet won an MVP in this period before going to Sydney.

This shocked me, as I was always under the impression he didn't achieve much at Geelong before winning a Brownlow at both Sydney and Carlton.

Can anybody verify this, and enlighten me as to why he left Geelong after doing so well in his first two seasons as an AFL footballer? Was it for money, was it for 'success' ala Buckley circa 1993 p)?

Cheers in advance.

 

[Kardinia Boy]

Purely for the money.
Sydney were splashing around a lot of cash thanks to the good doctor.

 

[Rustin' Man]

Purely for the money.

Agree with Kardinia Boy - money was the prime motivator.

 

[Tex_21]

Worst part is we could have had him for $5,000 more, (roughly half of what Sydney paid him), but our stubborn administration didn't want to pay it.

 

[ablett5]

tom hafey took greg willams,david bolton and bernard toohey and may be another one or two players over to sydney with him for $$$$$$ ,i was shattered

 

[Hulk_Hawkins]

Also won B&F in 1985 shattering to lose him over 5k

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

There's a bit in Ken Piesse's Ablett book about what happened then, Williams and Ablett emerged as the key players for the team around the same time...what could've been etc etc.

 

[Turbocat]

There's a bit in Ken Piesse's Ablett book about what happened then, Williams and Ablett emerged as the key players for the team around the same time...what could've been etc etc.

Both made the debut against Fitzroy on the same day. Sure If Williams had stayed ...yada,yada but Couch also came into the side because he left.

The fact is Carlton had rejected him told him he was too slow, Geelong threw him a lifeline and gave him the chance to play VFL. Then he walked after two seasons. My memory is he got offered something like $85,000 by the Swans and we offered something like $40,000 or $45,000.Sure another $5000 might have kept him but really if he would have stayed for $5000 then why not stay without it. It was around this time Geelong where really strapped I suppose hard money decisions had to be made. I blame Hafey to a degree he took three good players and tried to take Bews and he knew Geelong were backs against the wall.

 

[CF]

The Hafey factor was a big part of Williams decision to leave. The truth is there were those in the board that hated Hafey because he wasn't from "Geelong" and were gunning to cut him loose. Williams decision to follow Hafey had a lot to do with his relationship with the Coach. A Geelong ex player was appointed to replace Hafey in John Devine which pretty much summed up the mindset of the administration back then.

 

[jim boy]

Williams said he would stay if his salary matched that of Michael Turner, which was still around 40% less than what Sydney was offering, but they didn't budge. By this stage Williams really was an absolute gun and worth much more than the pittance we were giving him and what he was asking for.

The adminstration of the club were simply stuck in the sixties and made some really shocking decisions.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Cost Geelong the '89 and '92 flags IMO. He did win the MVP while he was at Geelong and also the Geelong B&F both in his second year in 1985. He then left.

I heard too that and extra $5,000 would have kept him. Also heard at the time that some senior players weren't happy with his decision and it may have come to fisticuffs in the old Lord of The Isles bottle shop, the one that used to be across the road from the pub.

Another good story is that in one of the preseason practice matches before he'd played an official match, he lined up in the centre and was telling Mick Turner and a few of the others where to stand and what to do, they laughed at him and he brained them.

What an absolute gun. I'm glad I was around to watch his career regardless of where he was playing.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Both made the debut against Fitzroy on the same day. Sure If Williams had stayed ...yada,yada but Couch also came into the side because he left.

The fact is Carlton had rejected him told him he was too slow, Geelong threw him a lifeline and gave him the chance to play VFL. Then he walked after two seasons. My memory is he got offered something like $85,000 by the Swans and we offered something like $40,000 or $45,000.Sure another $5000 might have kept him but really if he would have stayed for $5000 then why not stay without it. It was around this time Geelong where really strapped I suppose hard money decisions had to be made. I blame Hafey to a degree he took three good players and tried to take Bews and he knew Geelong were backs against the wall.

Couch was a very good footballer, Williams was an all time great, highlighted with his selection in the VFL/AFL Team of The Century.

 

[Vdubs]

Worst part is we could have had him for $5,000 more, (roughly half of what Sydney paid him), but our stubborn administration didn't want to pay it.

So right, Diesel was keen to stay with us but it was pretty offensive how stubborn that admin was. Who could forget that amazing centreline we boasted that year= Ablett Diesel Turner? Diesel got our B&F that year.

 

[Turbocat]

Couch was a very good footballer, Williams was an all time great, highlighted with his selection in the VFL/AFL Team of The Century.

...for other clubs.

I look at this way Geelong gave him the chance and crapped on them for $5000. I have no doubt we were not as professional as we should have been , but he still crapped on us when we where in financial trouble. I think Devine took over from Hafey and did it zip , because the club asked him to.
Imagine Selwood getting offered $800,000 to go to Sydney and we can only offer $400,000 it would be similar and I'd bet he'd still stay. Joel,s in his third season so he has already given us more service than Williams

 

[The Governor]

Yes,

Greg Williams made his debut against Fitzroy with G.Ablett on one wing and Michael Turner on the other wing. And, Mark Jackson was playing at Full Forward.

The Geelong Football Club was financially strapped back in the mid 1980s.

And, from reports, Greg Williams did attend the 150th birthday celebrations at the Geelong Waterfront.

Diesel would have made a huge difference to our side in 1989 under Malcolm Blight and we would have won the 1991 and 1992 Grand Finals in a canter!!

Billy Goggin was the director of Football back in 1983-1985. He recruited Greg Williams, David Bolton, ROb Hawkins and Bruce Lindner. On top of this , he tried to get Stephen Michael to the Cats in 1983 without any luck.

On top of this, Billy Goggin and Bill McMaster signed Brad Hardie on a Form 4 and he was destined to Kardina Park in 1985 until the Bulldogs changed his mind.

Billy also signed up Greg McAdam and Tony McGuiness on Form 4s. However, they decided not to come to Geelong. The Cats gave McGuiness a brand new car and he took it.

And, there was Dean Farmer (the son of Polly). He was banned from playing football after having a huge brawl in a WAFL game.


DO you imagine Diesel, Tony McGuiness and Brad Hardie in our Geelong side...Gee..

THE GOVERNOR

 

[Turbocat]

Yes,

Greg Williams made his debut against Fitzroy with G.Ablett on one wing and Michael Turner on the other wing. And, Mark Jackson was playing at Full Forward.

The Geelong Football Club was financially strapped back in the mid 1980s.

And, from reports, Greg Williams did attend the 150th birthday celebrations at the Geelong Waterfront.

Diesel would have made a huge difference to our side in 1989 under Malcolm Blight and we would have won the 1991 and 1992 Grand Finals in a canter!!

Billy Goggin was the director of Football back in 1983-1985. He recruited Greg Williams, David Bolton, ROb Hawkins and Bruce Lindner. On top of this , he tried to get Stephen Michael to the Cats in 1983 without any luck.

On top of this, Billy Goggin and Bill McMaster signed Brad Hardie on a Form 4 and he was destined to Kardina Park in 1985 until the Bulldogs changed his mind.

Billy also signed up Greg McAdam and Tony McGuiness on Form 4s. However, they decided not to come to Geelong. The Cats gave McGuiness a brand new car and he took it.

And, there was Dean Farmer (the son of Polly). He was banned from playing football after having a huge brawl in a WAFL game.


DO you imagine Diesel, Tony McGuiness and Brad Hardie in our Geelong side...Gee..

THE GOVERNOR

Nice run down GOv , whos Rob Hawkins

 

[juzcat]

Williams was a gun and loosing him and Toohey really hurt
I am convinced we would have won a couple of flags with him hitting up ablett and the rest of the forwards

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Yes,

Greg Williams made his debut against Fitzroy with G.Ablett on one wing and Michael Turner on the other wing. And, Mark Jackson was playing at Full Forward.

The Geelong Football Club was financially strapped back in the mid 1980s.

And, from reports, Greg Williams did attend the 150th birthday celebrations at the Geelong Waterfront.

Diesel would have made a huge difference to our side in 1989 under Malcolm Blight and we would have won the 1991 and 1992 Grand Finals in a canter!!

Billy Goggin was the director of Football back in 1983-1985. He recruited Greg Williams, David Bolton, ROb Hawkins and Bruce Lindner. On top of this , he tried to get Stephen Michael to the Cats in 1983 without any luck.

On top of this, Billy Goggin and Bill McMaster signed Brad Hardie on a Form 4 and he was destined to Kardina Park in 1985 until the Bulldogs changed his mind.

Billy also signed up Greg McAdam and Tony McGuiness on Form 4s. However, they decided not to come to Geelong. The Cats gave McGuiness a brand new car and he took it.

And, there was Dean Farmer (the son of Polly). He was banned from playing football after having a huge brawl in a WAFL game.


DO you imagine Diesel, Tony McGuiness and Brad Hardie in our Geelong side...Gee..

THE GOVERNOR

I bought a new cricket bat about half a dozen years ago from Rowe & Jarman sports stores, I wasn't happy with it so I let them know, McGuiness rang me up (he was in charge of sales & marketing or something).
I asked him about the car with the glovebox full of cash (this was a well known rumour/story around Geelong at the time it actually happened).
He told me it was true but that Billy Goggin didn't want him so he ended up at Footscray. He said the car was a green Camira and that when he didn't get to the Cattery that they gave it to Billy Brownless instead, he said that I should asked Billy about it if we ever crossed paths as there were some funny stories connected to it.
I was living in country Victoria at the time and we used to get a radio footy show called, 'Up Country Punt' on SEN on a Friday afternoon. The hosts were Gary Lyon, Billy Brownless and Tim Watson, I rang them up one week and asked Billy about the green Camira, he told me it was true but wouldn't go into any details about the stories, he was laughing as he told me that.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Nice run down GOv , whos Rob Hawkins

Jumping Jacks brother, Tomahawk's uncle.

Also they were trying to get Stephen Michael earlier than that, he and Brian Peake. Michael never wanted to come.

The Krakouers were another couple Geelong couldn't get over the line and they ended up at North. I think the figures being bandied around were about 300k for the pair of them.

 

[vinum coupe]

I was wondering if anybody here could help me.
I came across Greg Williams' wikipedia page (reliable, I know ) and saw that before Williams left Geelong, he actually won the first of his two MVPs.

Apparently he only played 30-odd games over two seasons, yet won an MVP in this period before going to Sydney.

This shocked me, as I was always under the impression he didn't achieve much at Geelong before winning a Brownlow at both Sydney and Carlton.

Can anybody verify this, and enlighten me as to why he left Geelong after doing so well in his first two seasons as an AFL footballer? Was it for money, was it for 'success' ala Buckley circa 1993 p)?

Cheers in advance.

Ablett cost Williams the brownlow in 85 and vice versa.

 

[vinum coupe]

Also they were trying to get Stephen Michael earlier than that, he and Brian Peake. Michael never wanted to come.

The Krakouers were another couple Geelong couldn't get over the line and they ended up at North. I think the figures being bandied around were about 300k for the pair of them.

I was bleeding over these at the time but I am so glad now that we never got them. Wish we failed on peake too.

The only ones I wish we had succeeded with were buckley and cousins

 

[darren forssman]

Williams was a gun and loosing him and Toohey really hurt

toohey would have been a more than handy defender, better than darcy and schulze.

I was bleeding over these at the time but I am so glad now that we never got them. Wish we failed on peake too.

The only ones I wish we had succeeded with were buckley and cousins

werent we just a sideshow in the buckley fiasco and really only mentioned so it didnt look like the pies were rorting the system.

 

[Deep North]

Ablett cost Williams the brownlow in 85 and vice versa.

Ummmm didn't Ablett belt someone in his first game and cop four weeks. I think Williams also did some time that year.

I think I posted on this once before, but I interviewed Hafey about this topic once for a Uni essay. He told me he loved the players and people around the GFC but the board were utter morons. He said the hardest decision he had to make over the Sydney move was how to cut the eleven players that put their hand up to leave down to the three he could take. He reckoned it was a rush to get out of there and people were trying to leave without even a pay rise.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

I wrote this ........

Originally Posted by Me, in another thread in July

Actually the Swans had to pay $120,000 to Geelong to acquire Williams; an amount greater than the largest salary of any player in the league at the time. FWIW.

The whole notion of this "for an extra $5,000 Geelong could have kept Williams" factoid should also include the "but would be denying their club $120,000 in compensation" component of the story IMO.

Perhaps Paul Couch, also a slowish centreman, would never have become as good a player for the Cats if Williams had stayed. So in a positional sense it didn't hurt Geelong as much as it is perceived to have. Geelong essentially "lost" the difference between Couch and Williams as players. Which still represents a significant output, it shouldn't overlook the fact that Paul Couch was a 2x AA centreman, 3x GFC B&F. Geelong lost an F430 but gained a 911 turbo?

Diesel did win a Norm Smith against Geelong in 1995 but Carlton were so dominant that day that they would have still won easily IMO if Williams hadn't played. If the difference between the two teams that day had been minimal ................

Hypothetical Time MFers

What if ........

Williams stays and Geelong finds the extra $5k a year and pays him what he'll accept: $50k a season. Geelong then goes without the $120k transfer fee and is also paying $50k to Williams thus putting the club "down" $270k ($120k + 3 x $50k) after 3 years.

When Hawthorn tried to reacquire Ablett (was it after 1987? 1988?) let's say the Cats now can't compete and have to let him go due to their weakened financial position from both having to pay Williams and also by missing out on the enormous injection of funds that came the club's way from Diesel's departure.

Hawthorn wouldn't have lost a single game for about 10 years.

.........and GAJ would play for the Hawks right now.

IMO it was a brilliant move by the club in 1985 to not find that extra $5k a season. Of course they knew that the then <18 month old GAJ would be a 3 x AFLPA MVP winner.

Seriously though, if Diesel's departure even helped the club in the smallest possible way keep Senior, then it was worth it.

 

[Cohzee]

I read most of those posts with an old man's voice in my head. Sort of like the Colonel off MASH.