Prediction GWS THE FUTURE

[Land of the Giants]

It's a tricky one hey.
But it's not like you can say it's about 'education'. It's her religious values.

It's a bit of a bind. We want to engage with the communities in Western Sydney.
Well...this comes with that.

It will turn more people off than on.

The rest of society has come a long way on LGBTI issues. Her community doesn't want to.

 

[gee whiz giant]

I'm a bit dumb around all these trade machinations...
So if we're also open to moving on Haynes & Whitfield, is that because of one bad year they both had 2022, or because the club can't afford to have any future bad years for either of them?
If we're that desperate for salary cap space, it means presumably that there's a lot of younger players who think they're not on enough money.
And once cap space is cleared, via the GWS revolving door policy, what's to say that the younger crop are not overpaid, and after a bad year, become like Haynes and Whitfield, too expensive to keep.
Is the clubs high rotation policy sustainable?
Has the list manager stuffed up, or is it different for GWS than other teams?
Is money the only thing that keeps players @ Homebush?
Taranto and Hopper seemed firmly engaged in friendship groups at the club, and seemed on-board with the culture.
What happened?

 

[PaythePerryman]

I'm a bit dumb around all these trade machinations...
So if we're also open to moving on Haynes & Whitfield, is that because of one bad year they both had 2022, or because the club can't afford to have any future bad years for either of them?
If we're that desperate for salary cap space, it means presumably that there's a lot of younger players who think they're not on enough money.
And once cap space is cleared, via the GWS revolving door policy, what's to say that the younger crop are not overpaid, and after a bad year, become like Haynes and Whitfield, too expensive to keep.
Is the clubs high rotation policy sustainable?
Has the list manager stuffed up, or is it different for GWS than other teams?
Is money the only thing that keeps players @ Homebush?
Taranto and Hopper seemed firmly engaged in friendship groups at the club, and seemed on-board with the culture.
What happened?

What happened is we had a sustained period of success where we also traded out high quality players in exchange for high draft picks...
I guess if you look at it a different way, our development and drafting has been elite. We just are a small club with small crowds in a non-afl Heartland.
I think we just need to transition. I don't think Hopper/Taranto/Haynes want to leave...(credit to the culture) but neither did Shiel/Steele.
I think a lot gets talked about with nuffies saying send us to Tasmania after a couple of tough covid affected years.

Long term...we are trying to create a more sustainable list balance while also making ourselves more competitive.

Is money the only thing keeping players in Homebush?
Well...they don't live in Homebush. They live in Sydney. Inner West, eastern beaches, city. It's not that far.

 

[Giant Gutsache]

It has been the GWS way in recent years to make it harder for the kids to get in and then stay in the team. It has been openly spoken about at the club and demonstrated with the revolving door treatment of Ash and Green in their first couple of years when they were contributing as much or more than others who kept their spots. It frustrated Caldwell. It’s a strange approach for a club caught in a cycle of bringing in top talent every year.

That said, I‘d prefer the new coaching team pick the side each week in 2023 with a view to developing a premiership challenge in future years. That may mean Aleer plays ahead of Davis/Haynes, Fahey ahead of Kennedy and maybe a draftee ahead of Ward. I expect they’ll have been given a couple of years to drill down a game plan and sort out the list. Should be a fun watch.

 

[sydney_gws]

Backwards.
There is an article in the age about the megadeal.
We had agreed to trade 3,19 for 1 originally.
North rated at number 1 Sheazel, Wardlaw, Tsatis about the same.
I don't therefore understand why we needed pick 1.
It seems like our trading is amateur hour stuff.

 

[Danny88]

Backwards.
There is an article in the age about the megadeal.
We had agreed to trade 3,19 for 1 originally.
North rated at number 1 Sheazel, Wardlaw, Tsatis about the same.
I don't therefore understand why we needed pick 1.
It seems like our trading is amateur hour stuff.

From what I have read wardlaw Tsitas and sheezel were all strongly suggesting they would go home

If that’s the case we couldn’t risk missing cadman.

 

[sydney_gws]

We have to stand up to that mentality, the rot appears to have set in with the Vic Metro kids.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Backwards.
There is an article in the age about the megadeal.
We had agreed to trade 3,19 for 1 originally.
North rated at number 1 Sheazel, Wardlaw, Tsatis about the same.
I don't therefore understand why we needed pick 1.
It seems like our trading is amateur hour stuff.

Assuming that is Norths order there is no guarantee that come draft night that will still be the case especially with a club that has a drafting team that is still in a bit of flux.

 

[Giant Pete]

Generally speaking, VIC Country kids seem more resilient than metro.

 

[Giant Strides]

We have to stand up to that mentality, the rot appears to have set in with the Vic Metro kids.

I'm unsure how a single club (or even a small number of clubs) "stand up" against that. It needs AFL House to stop having a Vic-centric myopia and act across the whole league.

 

[Andre the Giant]

The trouble is the AFL is effectively run by the AFL Commission and the AFL Commission is heavily influenced by the big clubs and powerbrokers like Eddie Maguire.

It is not in the best interests of the big clubs to change the system. They know they have a sport that is unique and only popular in Australia, and where there is no threat to their talent leaving or going elsewhere.

In fact, if the AFL and the clubs wanted to get fair dinkum they could absolutely squash the Players Association. What would the PPA do? Cause a strike? Yeah see how that went for baseball.

Yet in spite of knowing the AFL PPA is effectively a flaccid penis, they bow to them routinely and never disrupt their wishes.

If the AFL wanted to mandate 3 or even 4 year contracts for draftees they could do it with ease, they just choose not to because the current system is very convenient for the bigger clubs.

There is no rational reason why the sport would not seek to make tenure longer and assist the smaller minnow clubs combat the threats they face to retain draftable talent.

The AFL could address this, but it’s just too inconvenient for it’s self-serving powerbrokers to bother.

 

[Giant Pete]

Sounding like the 3 year contract for draftees is gaining momentum.

 

[Giant Strides]

Sounding like the 3 year contract for draftees is gaining momentum.

Problem is, it's just one bit of help, it's not a complete solution.

But VFL House - if they actually adopt it - will see it as the complete solution, and we'll be back to the "it's your fault" finger pointing when it doesn't resolve the issues.

 

[Giant Pete]

Problem is, it's just one bit of help, it's not a complete solution.

But VFL House - if they actually adopt it - will see it as the complete solution, and we'll be back to the "it's your fault" finger pointing when it doesn't resolve the issues.

Hopefully it becomes one of several ideas to help clubs like us.
At least it’s recognition that there actually is a problem.

 

[Dangerousfield]

VFL too busy dreaming up AFLX and Magic Round than to make the effort to make equalisation measures actually work.

The power behind the VFL actually like the idea of GC & GWS being forever feeder clubs for the clubs that really matter down south!

 

[Del208273]

The power behind the VFL actually like the idea of GC & GWS being forever feeder clubs for the clubs that really matter down south!

It's probably hit me this post-season more than any other time, but I am questioning whether continuing to support the AFL through the Giants.

To put it bluntly, the competition is rigged.

Add to that all the gambling advertising, the crap effort that Ch7 and especially Fox Footy put into broadcasting.....

The enjoyment as a supporter is way down at the moment.

 

[bossman111]

Keen to get people's thoughts on where things are at, which I've seen talked about in various threads. Introduction of Tasmania and a new AFL CEO may now present the opportunity for a change of direction. A few issues I'd nominate are:

1. Overall strategic direction - I'm actually OK with a move toward being more of a 'second Sydney club' as opposed to a club that exclusively represents the Greater Western Sydney region. For example, the inner west seems like a good opportunity given proximity to Homebush, potentially by reallocating academy zoning and targeted local marketing. I don't mean to be classist, here but if we are honest about the Swans, they have killed it by converting people from higher disposable income areas in the east and north where people more more capacity to spend their dollars on memberships and tickets. building a club exclusively targeting the outer western suburbs seems like a tougher task.
2. Giants Stadium - great venue, terrible location and the six week lockout hurts us badly. I can't see a solution to this. You look at the atmosphere that is created at the SCG with great entertainment options before and after games, we are a poor cousin in that regard. We lose so much relevance in our home market because of the Easter Show, its hard to claw our way back, Possibly the new train station around 2030 may spur some further development in the area, but its pretty dire every time I go out there.
3. Canberra - feels like we aren't all in on Sydney if we continue this arrangement. Plus its a very hard sell to recruits when we are essentially playing only 8 home games and 1 at the SCG every year, and travelling 13 times vs Melbourne clubs who would travel maybe 6 or 7 times a year.
4. CEO - 10 years is way too long, he has to go. Would be keen on a Sydney local that actually understands the city, even if they don't have a footy background
5. Academy zoning - consider removing Southern NSW and pouring all the resources into Sydney and possibly Canberra as long as we are there. Don't really see what value is being added by recruiting players that have more connection to Victoria (e.g. Hopper and others going to Vic private schools) than Sydney.

Covid messed things up badly, probably added 5 years to the build. But overall, I don't actually think we are that far off, if we can average 12-13k at home games in non derby games, there'd be a real buzz around the team, would fit the profile of Giants Stadium nicely. We'll always exist in a niche in this city and aren't ever going to get consistent back pages and airtime on SEN Sydney but I don't think that's what we should be aiming for in a 10 year horizon

Keen to get others thoughts

 

[GWS Goose]

Keen to get people's thoughts on where things are at, which I've seen talked about in various threads. Introduction of Tasmania and a new AFL CEO may now present the opportunity for a change of direction. A few issues I'd nominate are:

1. Overall strategic direction - I'm actually OK with a move toward being more of a 'second Sydney club' as opposed to a club that exclusively represents the Greater Western Sydney region. For example, the inner west seems like a good opportunity given proximity to Homebush, potentially by reallocating academy zoning and targeted local marketing. I don't mean to be classist, here but if we are honest about the Swans, they have killed it by converting people from higher disposable income areas in the east and north where people more more capacity to spend their dollars on memberships and tickets. building a club exclusively targeting the outer western suburbs seems like a tougher task.
2. Giants Stadium - great venue, terrible location and the six week lockout hurts us badly. I can't see a solution to this. You look at the atmosphere that is created at the SCG with great entertainment options before and after games, we are a poor cousin in that regard. We lose so much relevance in our home market because of the Easter Show, its hard to claw our way back, Possibly the new train station around 2030 may spur some further development in the area, but its pretty dire every time I go out there.
3. Canberra - feels like we aren't all in on Sydney if we continue this arrangement. Plus its a very hard sell to recruits when we are essentially playing only 8 home games and 1 at the SCG every year, and travelling 13 times vs Melbourne clubs who would travel maybe 6 or 7 times a year.
4. CEO - 10 years is way too long, he has to go. Would be keen on a Sydney local that actually understands the city, even if they don't have a footy background
5. Academy zoning - consider removing Southern NSW and pouring all the resources into Sydney and possibly Canberra as long as we are there. Don't really see what value is being added by recruiting players that have more connection to Victoria (e.g. Hopper and others going to Vic private schools) than Sydney.

Covid messed things up badly, probably added 5 years to the build. But overall, I don't actually think we are that far off, if we can average 12-13k at home games in non derby games, there'd be a real buzz around the team, would fit the profile of Giants Stadium nicely. We'll always exist in a niche in this city and aren't ever going to get consistent back pages and airtime on SEN Sydney but I don't think that's what we should be aiming for in a 10 year horizon

Keen to get others thoughts

Disagree strongly with the comments in regards to the Giants stadium v SCG

I think that Homebush is very conveniently located and easy to get to. (the location was chosen for that reason) The options around the ground are more than enough and they able to have all the Game related entertainment on site.

The SCG and Moore park is the hardest place in the world to get to from almost anywhere. Paddington being next door is good, but it is actually quite painful getting out and getting into something after the game. Im in my 40's now and past the get on it after game phase and the SCG might appeal to that demographic.

I do however agree with the 6 week lock out being bad for momentum.

I also like to appeal to regional NSW and Canberra as part of our long term target group

 

[PaythePerryman]

Disagree strongly with the comments in regards to the Giants stadium v SCG

I think that Homebush is very conveniently located and easy to get to. (the location was chosen for that reason) The options around the ground are more than enough and they able to have all the Game related entertainment on site.

The SCG and Moore park is the hardest place in the world to get to from almost anywhere. Paddington being next door is good, but it is actually quite painful getting out and getting into something after the game. Im in my 40's now and past the get on it after game phase and the SCG might appeal to that demographic.

I do however agree with the 6 week lock out being bad for momentum.

I also like to appeal to regional NSW and Canberra as part of our long term target group

Just fix the bloody trains.

 

[Land of the Giants]

Canberra - feels like we aren't all in on Sydney if we continue this arrangement.

Is that you General Giant?

 

[Colonial]

Is that you General Giant?

 

[Colonial]

Is that you General Giant?

He ain’t wrong………

 

[Del208273]

Perhaps they should move all the Easter Show activities to Acer Arena and leave Giants Stadium for AFL.

Decent music stopped in the 80s so there would be no loss not having concerts for 6 weeks........

 

[Colonial]

Keen to get people's thoughts on where things are at, which I've seen talked about in various threads. Introduction of Tasmania and a new AFL CEO may now present the opportunity for a change of direction. A few issues I'd nominate are:

It does, It is needed.

1. Overall strategic direction - I'm actually OK with a move toward being more of a 'second Sydney club' as opposed to a club that exclusively represents the Greater Western Sydney region. For example, the inner west seems like a good opportunity given proximity to Homebush, potentially by reallocating academy zoning and targeted local marketing. I don't mean to be classist, here but if we are honest about the Swans, they have killed it by converting people from higher disposable income areas in the east and north where people more more capacity to spend their dollars on memberships and tickets. building a club exclusively targeting the outer western suburbs seems like a tougher task.

No, no no no no no. We aren't Melbourne and having a team with different colours and name doesn't make it a different team here.
You need a point of difference and represent a different location.
Being the Sydney Giants opposed to the Western Sydney Giants will kill the club quicker than the part time efforts we have at the moment.

2. Giants Stadium - great venue, terrible location and the six week lockout hurts us badly. I can't see a solution to this. You look at the atmosphere that is created at the SCG with great entertainment options before and after games, we are a poor cousin in that regard. We lose so much relevance in our home market because of the Easter Show, its hard to claw our way back, Possibly the new train station around 2030 may spur some further development in the area, but its pretty dire every time I go out there.

Disagree.
No stadium in the state, bar Campbelltown is closer to a train station, while also having taxi ranks, bus stops and a dozen car parks. Add to that the soon to be Light Rail from Strathfield to Parramatta and we have the best transport options in the state, hell most states.
Only issue is the lack of pubs, clubs, cafes etc.

3. Canberra - feels like we aren't all in on Sydney if we continue this arrangement. Plus its a very hard sell to recruits when we are essentially playing only 8 home games and 1 at the SCG every year, and travelling 13 times vs Melbourne clubs who would travel maybe 6 or 7 times a year.

I think I've written enough on my view of being in Canberra as well. I would also hope that they know its not disrespect to our capital brothers and sisters just that both regions should have their own club.

4. CEO - 10 years is way too long, he has to go. Would be keen on a Sydney local that actually understands the city, even if they don't have a footy background

Yep

5. Academy zoning - consider removing Southern NSW and pouring all the resources into Sydney and possibly Canberra as long as we are there. Don't really see what value is being added by recruiting players that have more connection to Victoria (e.g. Hopper and others going to Vic private schools) than Sydney.

Once we are no longer (in my dream world) in Canberra would put all the effort into WS and the Central West NSW as Academy Zones.

Covid messed things up badly, probably added 5 years to the build. But overall, I don't actually think we are that far off, if we can average 12-13k at home games in non derby games, there'd be a real buzz around the team, would fit the profile of Giants Stadium nicely. We'll always exist in a niche in this city and aren't ever going to get consistent back pages and airtime on SEN Sydney but I don't think that's what we should be aiming for in a 10 year horizon

Big time it did, cost us our biggest draw at the time in Cameron while also not allowing us to capitalise on our GF appearance.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

It does, It is needed.

No, no no no no no. We aren't Melbourne and having a team with different colours and name doesn't make it a different team here.
You need a point of difference and represent a different location.
Being the Sydney Giants opposed to the Western Sydney Giants will kill the club quicker than the part time efforts we have at the moment.

Disagree.
No stadium in the state, bar Campbelltown is closer to a train station, while also having taxi ranks, bus stops and a dozen car parks. Add to that the soon to be Light Rail from Strathfield to Parramatta and we have the best transport options in the state, hell most states.
Only issue is the lack of pubs, clubs, cafes etc.

I think I've written enough on my view of being in Canberra as well. I would also hope that they know its not disrespect to our capital brothers and sisters just that both regions should have their own club.

Yep

Once we are no longer (in my dream world) in Canberra would put all the effort into WS and the Central West NSW as Academy Zones.

Big time it did, cost us our biggest draw at the time in Cameron while also not allowing us to capitalise on our GF appearance.

Agree with General Giants’s thoughts, except in relation to Canberra.

Branding as Sydney Giants and being “Swans lite” and playing in SCG will I think be detrimental to the advance of our club, and Aussie Rules in general in Sydney, NSW and Canberra.

I found Giants Stadium easy to get to by public transport, and it’s great when we have close to capacity. I believe that over time we will get 15kish regularly.

As for Canberra, we have a deal till 2032 to play 3 mens game and 1 AFLW (or 2 if the AFLW schedule expands). 2 of these 3 games are during the times when the Easter show makes Giants Stadium unavailable anyway.