Hawkins

[Berserker26]

I had this thought/theory whilst watching the game at Etihad on Friday and then again last night when i watched a replay. Hawkins hadn't recovered from surgery and wasn't quite right.

Theory -
Cats knew Pods wouldn't play Friday night so were forced to name Hawkins.... Just watching him he was calling for it on his head all night, very limited work rate and leading for marks. Saw he did get a few up the ground in the end though. I really think he was just in there for a tall defender - he didn't seem to make much of his usual impact by attacking the ball at his usual new regularity.

Just a thought...anybody else notice this? Then again, maybe he just played like crap.

 

[SJ]

I was going to start a similar thread, however I don't think these things were new against Carlton. He's almost always like this, apart from the odd occasion where he gets his tail up and the confidence is high.

He refuses to lead/move before the ball is kicked in his area - only once it's in the air does he move. Also generally he positions himself near or at the drop of the ball before he starts to lead/move, so most of the time he ends up stationary and wrestling with his opponent, a sitting duck for the third man up to spoil.

It's amazing watching him. I have no idea why he does not come from 20 metres back and hit the ball in the air and at speed. He is at his best running and jumping at the footy, and in a one on one wrestle I would say he is a 1-in-20 chance.

 

[topic97]

I was really surprised to see Hawk line up after surgery last week - I was fully expecting him to have another week off and to have the bye off.

I dont know, I kinda agree with you SJ.
The main issue for me is, after last year when he took leaps and bounds in the later part of the year, he seems to have taken a bit of a backward step since they have been playing him as a backup ruck - I think he has really taken another confidence hit and he just doesnt seem to be able to regain his focus.
Its good to see them playing two proper dual rucks now and having Hawk just play forward - but having said that, its only been one or two games since they had done that so I really think him along with the rest of the team are trying to find that balance back.

Lets hope after the break he comes out all guns blazing!!

 

[Senatorguesty]

I agree with Tommy, I kinda think maybe he is one of the "the stick" players and Scotty needs to give him a spray.
There are concerns about his game (lack of movement on the lead, always trying to wrestle and take chest marks and his damn spraying in front of goal) and they really REALLY to need sort it out. IMO there's no doubt he has the talent and skill and body to become a top 3 forward, he just needs to work on those things.

 

[Senatorguesty]

I don't know how to edit posts with this forum so I'll just throw this up, is our gameplan strangling him? It seems to me that when we do go forward there's no space for him to work, especially with guys like Stevie J and Stokes cutting his leads by leading themselves, wouldn't we be better served playing either Pods of Hawk (whoever is the FF at the time) 1 out with a few smalls 30m in front of them to collect any crumbs that may come?
I dunno I'm not an AFL coach so I don't know but we seen to lack space forward lately....

 

[SJ]

I don't know how to edit posts with this forum so I'll just throw this up, is our gameplan strangling him? It seems to me that when we do go forward there's no space for him to work, especially with guys like Stevie J and Stokes cutting his leads by leading themselves, wouldn't we be better served playing either Pods of Hawk (whoever is the FF at the time) 1 out with a few smalls 30m in front of them to collect any crumbs that may come?
I dunno I'm not an AFL coach so I don't know but we seen to lack space forward lately....

I do find it bizarre we often end up using Johnson is our target inside 50 (not ideal), then if he doesn't mark (quite likely) obviously he isn't there to crumb and it gets whisked away. We don't play percentage footy anymore.

 

[Berserker26]

I do find it bizarre we often end up using Johnson is our target inside 50 (not ideal), then if he doesn't mark (quite likely) obviously he isn't there to crumb and it gets whisked away. We don't play percentage footy anymore.

Is this because Hawkins isn't leading tho? It's always second choice just bombing it on somebodies head.

 

[SJ]

Is this because Hawkins isn't leading tho? It's always second choice just bombing it on somebodies head.

Probably. Why doesn't he demand the ball?

I almost think the coaching staff must have told him to play that way, otherwise why isn't anything changing?

 

[Senatorguesty]

I wonder that myself and have commented that I wonder if the boys just dont like the Hawk lol. I dont know the reason, I dont know why the MC let it continue and I dont know how to fix it, especially if its just Hawks nature to want the long bomb on his head.
I wonder if its a catch 22 where Hawk doesnt lead because guys like Stevie lead because Hawk isnt leading??
He's probably the most powerful tall forward in the game bar Brown, why not play him in the goal square with 20m around him to play with and tell him to LEAD AT THE BALL??!? He can do the same when playing CHF.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

He's not in danger of getting Brownlow votes for his performance, but he did take some good grabs on an accomplished opponent. If he'd kicked the goal(s) he should have kicked, it wouldn't even be an issue.

 

[Berserker26]

I suppose at this point I'd like to reiterate that my suspicions for Tommy's performance were from his recovery from the knee surgery - I wasn't intending to turn this into a roast thread of any description.

 

[Senatorguesty]

Yep Ill stand by that and say it was due to his short recovery, cant really fault his last 8 months can we...

 

[James1970]

Hawkins is an old-fashioned footy guy. He plays at his best when his confidence is high and his gut-footy-instinct can take over.

Sadly, most games are now thought-out and played before the game even starts. The poor guy must have a dozen set plays runnuing through his brain each time the ball heads his way. By the time one of the plays is switched to 'go', his instinct is shot to pieces, culling any confidence.

It's no coincidence his best game this year by a country mile was played in the soaking wet, where set plays were minimized, and old-fashioned footy was the name of the game. Same in the second half of last years GF. He was left on his own and could just let rip.

I'd be keeping it simple with him, and just telling him to run, run, run and demand the ball, no matter who's in his way - Pods, SJ, Stokes, whoever. The others have to 'get around him', not the other way around.

 

[SJ]

Yep Ill stand by that and say it was due to his short recovery, cant really fault his last 8 months can we...

My comments weren't aimed at his performance, more his method (which is not limited to Friday night). I really don't know why he doesn't get on his bike and lead, or at least start from 20 metres back and hit the ball drop at pace and with height.

 

[Senatorguesty]

Hawkins is an old-fashioned footy guy. He plays at his best when his confidence is high and his gut-footy-instinct can take over.

Sadly, most games are now thought-out and played before the game even starts. The poor guy must have a dozen set plays runnuing through his brain each time the ball heads his way. By the time one of the plays is switched to 'go', his instinct is shot to pieces, culling any confidence.

It's no coincidence his best game this year by a country mile was played in the soaking wet, where set plays were minimized, and old-fashioned footy was the name of the game. Same in the second half of last years GF. He was left on his own and could just let rip.

I'd be keeping it simple with him, and just telling him to run, run, run and demand the ball, no matter who's in his way - Pods, SJ, Stokes, whoever. The others have to 'get around him', not the other way around.

Quality post!

 

[you pick one]

Probably. Why doesn't he demand the ball?

I almost think the coaching staff must have told him to play that way, otherwise why isn't anything changing?

Maybe to knackered,he works hard up and back thats what's required in todays football,I'm sure if he had the luxury of sitting back in the goal square like the FF of yesterday he would be on big long searching leads demanding the ball.
I'm happy the way he's going and will only get better,kicking for goal is still a work in progress.

 

[manboob]

My comments weren't aimed at his performance, more his method (which is not limited to Friday night). I really don't know why he doesn't get on his bike and lead, or at least start from 20 metres back and hit the ball drop at pace and with height.

I think it's as others have said there is no room in the forward line. Look at the GF, the 50 was wide open. I'm not sure if it's the opposition defence or our forwards, but the kid works best in space which he isn't getting at the moment. I think there is a lot to be said for clearing stokes etc out of the forward 50 and just having Hawkins, Pods and maybe chapman in there.

 

[AM]

Probably. Why doesn't he demand the ball?

I almost think the coaching staff must have told him to play that way, otherwise why isn't anything changing?

It’s a confidence thing with Tom. It’s never more apparent than when he’s kicking for goal. That said, I think he's more self-assured now than he was for most of last year.

If only he possessed a portion of Stevie Js self-assurance he’d be an 80 to 100 goal forward.

I don’t think running him the ruck did much to lift his confidence either, btw.

Agree with your comment , B26 , I doubt he would have played had Pods come up.

 

[you pick one]

I think it's as others have said there is no room in the forward line. Look at the GF, the 50 was wide open. I'm not sure if it's the opposition defence or our forwards, but the kid works best in space which he isn't getting at the moment. I think there is a lot to be said for clearing stokes etc out of the forward 50 and just having Hawkins, Pods and maybe chapman in there.

Hawkins and Pods are pushing right up the ground to the wings and beyond at times leaving a vacant forward line for Duncan, Stokes, Motlop, Johnson and even Selwood now to run back into we're not playing a traditional forward set up most times.
You should see your set up again rd19 v the Hawks I hope.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I do find it bizarre we often end up using Johnson is our target inside 50 (not ideal), then if he doesn't mark (quite likely) obviously he isn't there to crumb and it gets whisked away. We don't play percentage footy anymore.

That's why Podsiadly is so crucial to the structure though because when he doesn't play Johnson, out of necessity, is used as the second de facto tall forward and he's not good in that role. Johnson is much much better when he can move up the ground and turn his defender around rather than having to stay in the 50 (which is what he has to do if Hawk marks the ball on the wing and has no tall target then to kick long to, as we had on friday night) and calling for the ball to be kicked long to him.

On the OP, I didn't think Hawk was actually injured, I don't think they would risk playing him if he was (well I hope not) and I didn't see any signs of injury. However he does struggle for fitness at the best of times let alone when he's had knee surgery the week before so that may have something to do with it. I thought he was good on friday night albeit that his goakicking motion still needs a lot of work. The structure didn't work well but that wasn't Hawk's fault, it was due to Pods being a late out as Scott alluded to in the presser. I do agree with your other point though, Hawk has improved a lot but he would be even better if he hit the ball at speed and defenders would have to be giving away a free kick most times. Yes he's a big strong boy but being stationary and wrestling is not the optimal way to do it particularly against good defences.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Thought Hawk was good against Blues.

If he kicked straight we would be praising his performance, but that still is clearly his number 1 problem.

People need to understand that its not as simple as just run, run, run.....zoning structures prevent a lot of space being available and unless the ball is moved quickly (which if anyone actually watched the game you would note that we played boundary line more than any geelong game i have seen in 5 years) then forwards, including SJ, find it very hard to create space.

Given that Pods was out, Hawk was most likely rooted to the deeper positions under a structural arrangement. With Pods back this week I would suspect that Hawk will have more licence to lead up the flanks.

 

[AM]

Thought Hawk was good against Blues.

If he kicked straight we would be praising his performance, but that still is clearly his number 1 problem.

People need to understand that its not as simple as just run, run, run.....zoning structures prevent a lot of space being available and unless the ball is moved quickly (which if anyone actually watched the game you would note that we played boundary line more than any geelong game i have seen in 5 years) then forwards, including SJ, find it very hard to create space.

Given that Pods was out, Hawk was most likely rooted to the deeper positions under a structural arrangement. With Pods back this week I would suspect that Hawk will have more licence to lead up the flanks.

No Gaz! He needs to place himself in the most dangerous spots. Wide isn't one of them.

Agree though that unless the ball is moved quickly and efficiently into the forward half opposition teams congest and finding space becomes much more of an an issue.

 

[Jemaine]

Stokes dropped straight in front of him a couple of times the other night. Maybe Hawk needs to 'Toovey' him so that he stops dropping in the hole for good.

I think Hawk was fine the other night, Jesus it doesn't take much for some of you to get on his back.

Pathetic really.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

The delivery into the forward line is woeful. We just get the ball and bomb it high into the air.

I don't blame Hawkins for not leading at times. Even when he does lead, the ball is kicked on top of his head.

Our lack of outside runners on the spread is what's hurting our delivering into the forward half. We havn't got that pace to break away from contests and it's allowing opposition defenders to push back quickly in numbers.

We need to be a bit smarter with the ball. It happened in the last half where seemed to slow down the play and kick to a leading option along the wings, and Hawkins took a couple of marks on the lead.

I think you'll find when Varcoe and Christensen return and Wojcinski has another couple of games under his belt, we'll find a bit of space, break the lines and allow Hawkins and Pods a bit of room in the forward line with less opposition defenders to deal with.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

No Gaz! He needs to place himself in the most dangerous spots. Wide isn't one of them.

Agree though that unless the ball is moved quickly and efficiently into the forward half opposition teams congest and finding space becomes much more of an an issue.

I agree that hawk needs to play predominantly through the danger zone, but I don't have a problem with him leading into the wing once or twice to work himself into the game. When he combines both approaches you end up with the type of games he pulled off in the final series last year.

I wouldn't worry though, he has been excellent this season and even against Carlton managed to acquit himself well as a focal point. Getting better and better.