hawks v adelaide

[ant]

Yeah, and our talls have been our strength, our midfield has been okay but Stevens, Schell, Smart, Bassett, etc. have been the driving forces behind our 7-3 start....

 

[vanders]

well, i am not sure if we will win it or not, but i just hope to god we are competitive. A win would be nice

 

[Chris_23]

Originally posted by ok.crows
If you think that your midfield is your strength (heaven help you), check out how your midfield rates statistically against Adelaides. While you are at it, also check out how Adelaide is going in terms of things like hard ball gets, clearances, entries into forward 50 & stuff like that. I think you guys might be in heaps of trouble here. BTW your second best midfielder probably wouldn't rate against Adelaide's fifth best. And you best midfielder Crawford will probably get Stenglein.

I never said our midfield was as good as Adelaide's. The Crows have an excellent midfield, which they need considering their talls aren't as impressive as most teams. Hawthorn's midfield (generally) has been pretty good. We have plenty of improving to do statistically, but only the Lions have kicked more goals from midfield than Hawthorn.

I do hope Crawford gets Stenglein.

Originally posted by ok.crows
Hawks don't have any mortgage on desperation, you know, and Adelaide have set themselves a special target of winning as many as possible of their home games this year.

Hawthorn's desperation has been very questionable, thats why i said their approach had to be different. I'm not worried about Adelaide's special target. Most teams have aims, it usually means jack-sh|t once you run out on the field.

Originally posted by ok.crows

I think you might have trouble in the next couple of rounds, and I find it hard to see you getting to the top four from a 5-7 position. Good luck to you anyway, and I hope it is a good match.

5-7 would be very difficult. Thats why they'll be 7-5, hopefully. Or 6-6 at worst, with 10 of our final 11 games in Melbourne.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by Chris_23

Hawthorn's desperation has been very questionable, thats why i said their approach had to be different. I'm not worried about Adelaide's special target. Most teams have aims, it usually means jack-sh|t once you run out on the field.

5-7 would be very difficult. Thats why they'll be 7-5, hopefully. Or 6-6 at worst, with 10 of our final 11 games in Melbourne.

I'm just wondering if you are actually capable of seeing the reverse side of the coin here. In a despairing attempt to illustrate what I mean, perhaps I can put it this way ... as a Crows fan I'm not worried about Hawthorn's attempt to rev-up the players nor their attempt to manufacture some very lacking desperation this week, it usually means jack-sh|t once you run out on the field.

 

[Chris_23]

Originally posted by ok.crows


I'm just wondering if you are actually capable of seeing the reverse side of the coin here. In a despairing attempt to illustrate what I mean, perhaps I can put it this way ... as a Crows fan I'm not worried about Hawthorn's attempt to rev-up the players nor their attempt to manufacture some very lacking desperation this week, it usually means jack-sh|t once you run out on the field.

Uh huh. All i said was that Hawthorn need to be more desperate in order to win. Where have i mentioned Peter Schwab's attempts to stir up the players?

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by Chris_23


Uh huh. All i said was that Hawthorn need to be more desperate in order to win. Where have i mentioned Peter Schwab's attempts to stir up the players?

Sorry Chris, I recognise this is the Hawks board and all, but I guess I remain surprised at the attitude that still persists this season about Adelaide.

After the win last week according to media, Adelaide "snuck in to third" ... whereas Port & Collingwood apparently have made it to equal top ...

Crows have managed to satisfy the media pundits this week that they are "the real deal" in that they are potential finalists ... Port, Collingwood & Brisbane are however apparently top 4 contenders.

It is all a bit frustrating I guess. What on earth do Crows have to do to be rated by anybody?

But dismiss Crows at your peril is my real observation for this board. IMO Hawks will have to achieve a heck of a lot more improvement than just get a bit more desperate to be able to beat Crows at home.

Again I say ... I hope it is a good game.

 

[Chris_23]

Fair enough. I still don't see where people have been putting down the Crows though. I know i haven't. They're up near the top of the ladder because they deserve to be. I have no problem with the Crows football, they have the score on the board so far.

I do think we'll have to do more than be a 'little more desperate'. I did say earlier that our approach would have to be psychotic to win the game! I'm just hoping that if the players go harder than they have lately, things might start to happen, players may get some confidence etc etc. As it stands now, the Crows have us covered very easily. Hopefully (for Hawthorn's sake) a few of our more influtential players start to pull their finger out. We're knackered if they don't, but i have faith.

Have a good one.

 

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by ok.crows

I'm just wondering if you are actually capable of seeing the reverse side of the coin here.

Are you? You come here and ask us what we really think. I say that I expect Adelaide to win. Chris states the things that must happen for us to win or we'll be comfortably beaten, suggesting he fanices you guys. Isn't that enough, or do you need us to put money on you to win the flag or something?

Hawthorn's midfield has been it's strength this season. Anyone, even a South Australian like you can realise that. It has been our key position players like Hay, Rawlings, Barker, and Holland who have let us down.

You should win. But to write us off and dismiss everything we've said would be a mistake. I see you as MtC on the AFL Rant, and you're just as biased and one eyed. Perhaps you can look from the other side occasionally, it might stop you looking like the arrogant and ignorant fool you portray yourself as.

The Hitman

 

[Damp Squarie]

Originally posted by The Hitman


Hawthorn's midfield has been it's strength this season. Anyone, even a South Australian like you can realise that.
The Hitman

Should be a good battle in the midfield then...

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by The Hitman
Are you? You come here and ask us what we really think. I say that I expect Adelaide to win. Chris states the things that must happen for us to win or we'll be comfortably beaten, suggesting he fanices you guys. Isn't that enough, or do you need us to put money on you to win the flag or something?

Hawthorn's midfield has been it's strength this season. Anyone, even a South Australian like you can realise that. It has been our key position players like Hay, Rawlings, Barker, and Holland who have let us down.

You should win. But to write us off and dismiss everything we've said would be a mistake. I see you as MtC on the AFL Rant, and you're just as biased and one eyed. Perhaps you can look from the other side occasionally, it might stop you looking like the arrogant and ignorant fool you portray yourself as.

The Hitman [/B]

Your midfield got pasted today, as expected.

Crows forwards stuffed up the dominance somewhat by kicking 18 points, and that was the only thing that kept Hawks in the match to half time.

Sorry if that seems arrogant, but there it is. Reality bites, don't it?

I'm not ignorant of Hawks ability ... but I really did feel that preseason Hawks were over-rated and Crows under-rated, as many had Crows down as coming 12th to 14th, and Hawks making the GF.

Now it seems to me that the prevailing view that Hawks were flag contenders and Crows were going to slide to near the bottom 4 - that was the true arrogance & ignorance.

I saw the continuation of that view on this board before the match. Sorry about my poor judgement in stating the opposing view, that Hawks with injury & poor form were going to be really really hard pressed to make any impression on Crows at Footy Park - since as this is your board you are thouroughly entitled (on here) not to listen to reality, and keep your head firmly down there in the sand.

Good luck to you for the rest of the season. You will need it.

Sorry if all that is a bit too hard-hitting for you, Hitman.

 

[Chris_23]

Originally posted by ok.crows


Your midfield got pasted today, as expected.

Don't think anyone ever said otherwise. I know i only said that our midfield had been our strength during the year. We were awful in there today, the Crows can take full credit.

Originally posted by ok.crows

I saw the continuation of that view on this board before the match. Sorry about my poor judgement in stating the opposing view, that Hawks with injury & poor form were going to be really really hard pressed to make any impression on Crows at Footy Park - since as this is your board you are thouroughly entitled (on here) not to listen to reality, and keep your head firmly down there in the sand.

Pardon me, but you are the only one with your head in the sand. Not one Hawthorn poster on this thread predicted a Hawthorn victory. I said that if we were really desperate then we'd win, we weren't desperate, and we lost. The Crows were far too good and deserved to win by 8 goals. How we were in the match for three quarters still amazes me. You must love the old 'us against them' mentality. How you fabricated that crap i'll never know.

Originally posted by ok.crows

Good luck to you for the rest of the season. You will need it.

Lovely.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by Chris_23


Don't think anyone ever said otherwise. I know i only said that our midfield had been our strength during the year. We were awful in there today, the Crows can take full credit.



Pardon me, but you are the only one with your head in the sand. Not one Hawthorn poster on this thread predicted a Hawthorn victory. I said that if we were really desperate then we'd win, we weren't desperate, and we lost. The Crows were far too good and deserved to win by 8 goals. How we were in the match for three quarters still amazes me. You must love the old 'us against them' mentality. How you fabricated that crap i'll never know.



Lovely.

There were posters on this board saying things akin to "if Hawks get desperation back, they will win".

It was not even "they can win" ... it was "will win".

Now to my (probably one-eyed, but then again who isn't) view, Hawks had a very very tough ask in this match. It was Hawks third match in a row on the road. Hawks had injury problems. Important Hawks players were well down on form. Hawks made seven changes. Finally, FP has not been a happy hunting ground for visiting sides this year, nor has it been for Hawks recently.

Crows OTOH were in fairly hot form as shown by being in the top 4 and having just beaten the league leading side in Brisbane (at this same venue). Crows had a near-full list to pick from, and made no changes from the successful side the week before.

The odds were very heavily stacked against Hawks. This was reflected in the betting odds. This game was always going to be a very tough one for Hawks.

Then, on this board, I read that "Hawks will win" apparently just through the simple expedient of being a bit more determined.

Sorry for pointing it out that I thought that was just a tad unrealistic. Excuuuuuuuse me if I thought that was just a little too much ignoring and/or dismissing your opposition and underestimating the task you faced.

Nope. I stick by my "head in the sand" accusation.

And I'm sorry, but I simply fail to see how I have my "head in the sand" at all - Crows won after all, just as I said was the likely outcome.

 

[Chris_23]

Nope, i'm the only person who said they would win if they were very desperate (like the finals last year). In my biased opinion Hawthorn's best is better than the Crows best, i guess thats what i was hoping for. I was definitely too optimistic. But i love my club and i always think they'll turn it around.

I feel that we're just going to be banging our head against the wall if we continue this any further. And to be honest, i want to put the past 3 weeks well and truly behind me.

Crows won, and deserved it. Congratulations and good luck for the year.

 

[CyberKev]

Originally posted by ok.crows



Sorry if that seems arrogant, but there it is. Reality bites, don't it?

I'm not ignorant of Hawks ability ... but I really did feel that preseason Hawks were over-rated and Crows under-rated, as many had Crows down as coming 12th to 14th, and Hawks making the GF.

Now it seems to me that the prevailing view that Hawks were flag contenders and Crows were going to slide to near the bottom 4 - that was the true arrogance & ignorance.

It would certainly appear that the Crows were underrated preseason, but you can only crystal ball gaze in accordance with a sides past performances and projections of how the season may pan out for them. There was no arrogance or ignorance about it...Every season there are sides that defy predictions for any number of reasons.

Adelaide have been fab, but even ardent Crow supporters would have to concede that they've had a dream run (best in the comp, for mine) with injuries and the like and have been fortunate to have their top players in career best form. I'm not begrudging them that, you take whatever luck comes your way in footy and you need a good run to win a premiership.

Projections on Hawthorn came from identifying the side as the only team in the competition to improve its ladder position for each of the past five years. The Hawks are painfully close to being the youngest side in the comp (almost surely will be next season), but despite this have put in two fine finals series over the past two years. I've been tracking the Hawk's progress in line with developments at Essendon and Brisbane. Hawthorn entered this season at the same stage to Essendon (1997) & Brisbane (1998). Both sides had performed well in recent finals series and were expected to perform strongly over those respective years (both bombed badly for a variety of reasons). Both also went on to win flags 3 years later (after near misses in the lead-up). Obviously the view on Hawthorn for 2002 was guaged on the side having a solid injury-free run and having the majority of its key players in sound form. Neither scenario has transpired, but it is always easier to see things with the benefit of hindsight.

We never stood a chance yesterday, although it was good to give some younger players a run (I would have played a couple extra were it me). The Crows always play well against Hawthorn anyway, although there was little of note that could be gleaned from yesterday's contest. That being said, I'd still like to see a near full strength and in-form Hawks side get a crack at the Crows in Melbourne during September. Not likely to happen this year, however, as I don't think we'll recover in time to make it.

Good luck to the Crows regardless, as they'll be there for certain and there are worse outcomes (from my perspective) than a third Crows flag.

Kevin