Toast Heritier Lumumba pens heartfelt letter to ex-teammates, wants club to own up to mistreatment

[Finnishpie]

And I believe we are. Bucks stated publicly his desire to sit down with H and talk. That offer has been rejected because H wants to use Collingwood to shine a light on racism. I’m with his fight but he’s using the wrong source of light.

yeah, I bet your point, but he said he didn’t want a behind the scenes handshake but a public statement. And that is good I think. Clear the air.

btw - I edited my original post to clarify since I write it after a beer or two and on my iPad, which means I make mistakes

 

[Finnishpie]

When reading drivel like this try substituting Lumanba for Goodes and you'll realise you've heard it all before. "Attention seeking, relevance, spotlight, grandstanding" . Same old shite.

brilliant observation.

10 stars.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think this is very likely. It’s an awful nickname. I wonder if he said anything about it at the time. Maybe he didn’t feel confident.

He asked the club to stop and they immediately did.

 

[barrackers]

 

[Finnishpie]

H’s experience is very different to Goodes. Why do you group them together?

because it’s part of a general cultural problem, Jmac That works it’s way through both cases.

its like saying, all those black folk in the US who the police keep killing. Each situation is different. Well yes, on one level.

But there’s little doubt in my mind that H would have experienced casual racism at the club and overt racism from the crowds. And just plain racism in society everywhere.

then when they say something about it, the get vilified, called wingers and sooks, personally destroyed..

So the process is very similar and the broader context is the same.

What The club should say is: we’re trying to meet with H. If the nickname chimp was used it was inappropriate and hurtful. Leaders should have listened. The club was wrong for backing Eddie and not H over Goodes (Rewatch that Goodes documentary!) for this we’re sorry and it will never happen again at the club if we can help it. Please come and see us H, we need you to be part of the club again (in general).

I’ve me H and talked a bit to him about these issues (not the specifics) and he seeemed like a really thoughtful, nice guy.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

H’s experience is very different to Goodes. Why do you group them together?

His experience is far closer to Beams Shaw Wellingham and Thomas rather than Goodes. Players who became disengaged with the clubs direction and found themselves at new clubs.

 

[manicpie]

What a perfect time to drag up old stories about being a race victim, with all the BLM making the news, you never know, Harry might even make some money out of it, strange that. Didn't he admit to taking mushrooms and other drugs during his time at Collingwood? Why isn't he seen the same as any other druggie at the Pies? Did he tell anyone at the time or did he hide it and do it behind his team mates back? It is safe to admit your addictions after you retire.

 

[frizzle]

I feel like they have probably tried going by Buckley’s comments. H’s comments today were not helpful, all we have heard is his side of the story...I figure if you don’t want to sit down and discuss, then sit down and shut up.

yeah i agree. There were no reconciliation comments from H. Just demands for a public apology.
He certainly still seems bitter despite the olive branch being shown.
I hope the public apology & acceptance that he was humiliated isn’t a precursor to legal action as some of the comments on his tweet suggested.

 

[magpies42]

yeah i agree. There were no reconciliation comments from H. Just demands for a public apology.
He certainly still seems bitter despite the olive branch being shown.
I hope the public apology & acceptance that he was humiliated isn’t a precursor to legal action as some of the comments on his tweet suggested.

Yep, there are two sides to the story...hard to acknowledge something if you aren’t guilty. He was probably ostracised for being a tool, like Shae Mac his only other supporter. People don’t like me, they must be racist...great logic.

 

[JB007]

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Does anyone know what the side effects are from consuming psychedelic mushrooms?

8 hours of feeling like a piece of living plasticine, with all sorts of visual distortions e.g. the staccato movement of a ball. An inability to engage in an activity such as playing cards, chess or backgammon. Feeling damn sorry for yourself unless you get out and move about - go for a hike and a giggle with like affected friends and avoid socialising with straight people. Don't bother to try eating because the food takes on a life of its own and is difficult to swallow. Preferably use marijuana to help you enter and exit the experience. Wouldn't suggest a game of football or training for at least a couple of days because your body is going to feel tired and perhaps uncoordinated.

Lots of laughs if all goes well for you, but depression if it doesn't. Not a method I would choose to cope with my anger. Want to try it? You can readily find them in certain areas of the dandenongs when the seasons right. Caught a friend's 14 yr old son collecting them in a brown paper bag one afternoon. He had at least found the correct ones. Warning: coming down off them can be really depressing. Golden tops used to let you down easier than the blue meannies but I think the former type is found in warmer climates. They don't taste nice. People have them is soups and omelettes, or dried and boiled in tea. Drinking just the liquid from it was probably the most pleasant way to ingest.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

What a perfect time to drag up old stories about being a race victim, with all the BLM making the news, you never know, Harry might even make some money out of it, strange that. Didn't he admit to taking mushrooms and other drugs during his time at Collingwood? Why isn't he seen the same as any other druggie at the Pies? Did he tell anyone at the time or did he hide it and do it behind his team mates back? It is safe to admit your addictions after you retire.

Yeah when he admitted to drugs, made sense with all the pompous bullshit about his thinking chair.

 

[jmac70]

because it’s part of a general cultural problem, Jmac That works it’s way through both cases.

its like saying, all those black folk in the US who the police keep killing. Each situation is different. Well yes, on one level.

But there’s little doubt in my mind that H would have experienced casual racism at the club and overt racism from the crowds. And just plain racism in society everywhere.

then when they say something about it, the get vilified, called wingers and sooks, personally destroyed..

So the process is very similar and the broader context is the same.

What The club should say is: we’re trying to meet with H. If the nickname chimp was used it was inappropriate and hurtful. Leaders should have listened. The club was wrong for backing Eddie and not H over Goodes (Rewatch that Goodes documentary!) for this we’re sorry and it will never happen again at the club if we can help it. Please come and see us H, we need you to be part of the club again (in general).

I’ve me H and talked a bit to him about these issues (not the specifics) and he seeemed like a really thoughtful, nice guy.

I’m not denying H has experienced casual racism, and I’m not condoning people who called him chimp. We are not privy to conversations that took place between players and coaches. I suspect H has left plenty of stuff out, and has exaggerated other aspects.

Ultimately H was traded because his usefulness as a player to the club was expired. I do not believe he was traded because of his stance on Goodes. He got an excellent deal at Melbourne, far in excess of what he was worth as a player.

Our club has officially offered to sit down with him. He has declined. Nothing further is needed from the club.

 

[manicpie]

Yeah when he admitted to drugs, made sense with all the pompous bullshit about his thinking chair.

Turns out it was his tripping chair

 

[Markfs]

i saw a comment that if Heritier doesnt want to discuss the issue, he should shut up. If someone king hits me, I dont want to discuss it with him. I might want a statement acknowledging that he hit me.... and I might want an apology although I wouldnt really respect the guy so it would be worthless.... but I would definitely have no need to discuss it with him. There are people in life that I dont want to have anything to do with. I dont need to discuss our differences. If Heritier feels that way about Collingwood, then so be it.

 

[manicpie]

i saw a comment that if Heritier doesnt want to discuss the issue, he should shut up. If someone king hits me, I dont want to discuss it with him. I might want a statement acknowledging that he hit me.... and I might want an apology although I wouldnt really respect the guy so it would be worthless.... but I would definitely have no need to discuss it with him. There are people in life that I dont want to have anything to do with. I dont need to discuss our differences. If Heritier feels that way about Collingwood, then so be it.

 

[JB007]

You’re starting to lose me Heritier......

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I can't imagine anyone acting in a racist manner towards Lumumba. He was not indigenous but a Brazilian/African mix, and to many Australians this would have been an unusual combination, not associated with black people we generally see in the country. He was articulate, thoughtful and quirky and many of us liked him because he spoke his mind and seemed intelligent and meditative, even owning a thinking chair. I respected him as I am sure did many others, not only for his intelligence but the way in which he rose from the rookie list to become an exciting and important player.

Changing his name from Harry O'Brien to Heritier Lumumba seemed a bit of a stretch, particularly given his professed love and desire to preserve the memory of his step father, but even that was probably accepted as a bit of an oddity but understandable in a man wishing to honour his African heritage. Not until rumours surfaced of him having objected to some seemingly harmless jibes at the club did anyone begin to consider him perhaps a little odd in his views. His form fell away and he was traded in the wake of the Adam Goodes/King Kong incident, and he further alienated himself from the fans with that strange speech about being the prince. Then came the attacks on the club and the claims of racism.

Heritier doesn't fit the mould of the types of groups who were subject to racist or ethnic jokes. If anything, it's his actions and words that started to sow seeds of doubt in people's minds and a growing tendency to promote himself and his self perceived talents - his web site seems to have disappeared but his claims to various interpersonal and ambassadorial skills seemed pretentious. As a player he was given an official ambassadorial role working with young people and got to meet the Dalai Lama, but eyebrows were raised when he expressed a desire to meet President Obama.

When he left the club he had largely become a figure of ridicule for Collingwood fans, much of it due to his strange behaviour in his final year at the club and in particular his speech at the 2014 awards in which he referred to himself as the prince who will have the last laugh. Going through threads from the time it's difficult to find a single supporter who lamented him being traded to Melbourne. In the end he lost a lot of credibility.

Even in final speech he praised Collingwood and in particular Buckley:

'I know what side of history I stand on, and I am so grateful that the Collingwood Football Club has allowed me to define my character and find the true meaning of my true name ... which is the prince, the one who will hold the last laugh, and is gifted," Lumumba said.

"My first mentor at the club was arguably the greatest player in the club's history, Nathan Buckley, who guided me every step of the way, taught me what it took to be an AFL footballer, what standards you need to uphold in terms of discipline, relentless, excellence, and side by side," he said.

"I will be forever indebted to the teammates that I have played with.

It's strange that he has turned on Buckley the way he has. Given how he began and ended his time at the club, he went from having a huge groundswell of support to being seen as narcissistic and very precious in his views on homophobia and other issues. He is more a victim of himself, not other people.

 

[Maggie Greg]

He Doesn't criticise Malthouse but says he was called that name from 2006. Dont get resolution by giving ultimatums. Out racist players, Otherwise must assume all his team mates were racists. Or still want to attend reunions? And Malthouse shows what a terrible human being he is this morning. Turn his photo to the wall. I hate Malthouse.

 

[Albert Parker]

It's a nice sentiment and good in principle, but what if the club has investigated it and nearly everyone they spoke to outright denies the claims? What then?

It just becomes a messy fight where again it makes Heritier look like he's making false accusations. Maybe the club are trying to look after him by just staying silent on it? I'm just spit-balling here btw.

These allegations were raised 3 years ago and dealt with then to some degree. H is obviously not happy with the outcome and this has raised its head again because of the current events.

I guess a "general" apology could be made, but my feeling from reading that open letter is that Harry wants far more than that and wants ex team mates to call the club out and I presume each other. I'm not sure I understand his letter to be honest.

I indicated that Bucks and Ed needed to respond appropriately.
If there has been an investigation, then declare that to be the case.
I think there is enough smoke, with the public statements of others like McNamara etc, to suggest that there was some locker room talk toward Lumumba and possibly others that was culturally insensitive.
It's not easy to speak out against a much-loved organisation or revered, powerful individuals in society and call them out. For it to have been acknowledged by more than one player strongly suggests it has substance.
Even if the club statement addresses our history more broadly (without naming McAlister or Monkhorst as publically-known examples) and acknowledges that there have been times when Collingwood FC and its players and administrators have not met current community standards. We believe that the current Collingwood FC is a different place/inclusive etc etc.
I also don't think it would hurt for McGuire to acknowledge that he has made insensitive remarks in the past and that he has sought counsel on this issue. No-one is above scrutiny at Collingwood FC etc.
But I think there needs to be a public statement, and I don't think an apology would hurt from a public sentiment perspective nor for Lumumba's healing, because this stuff will hang around otherwise.

 

[JB007]

I am done now Heritier you‘re trying to become some sort of martyr at the expense of the Collingwood Football Club that I LOVE.

I was at the Winmar game at Victoria Park........that day I was ashamed to be a Collingwood Supporter.............it is obvious your journey now doesn’t align with mine. All the best to you and your family.

Cheers Jim

• 
  tegankruger
  
  Had to switch off Fox last night when, Eddie McGuire of all people, explained why players were taking a knee
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      hlumumba
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      @tegankruger it’s embarrassing. I’m actually on these streets and will not allow them to usurp this movement.

 

[Quicky]

How many players called him 'chimp' or 'slave'? Bob Skilton was called chimp. It was a nickname. Krakouer says there was nothing racist attached to Lumumba being called 'chimp'. This is the first time he has claimed he was called 'slave' and his complaints against the club and players are now well documented. I just see Lumumba's claims as political correctness gone mad, as Mick McGuane said in 2014 about his lesbian accusations. I used to really like Lumumba and respected his intellectual affectations, like his thinking chair. Now I just wish he would shut up.

I find this comment offensive. To claim that someone who has experienced racism, and who speaks out about that racism is being PC is really wrong. Speaking out against racism is not being PC. It's just another convenient way to discredit and shut down the discussion.

 

[Help My Club]

You’re starting to lose me Heritier......

Well his spelt out his issues over 10 pretty clear points. You can choose to believe him or not. You can choose to discredit him or not.

Given his supposed treatment behind closed doors, why would he accept a private handshake? Rightly or wrongly, he clearly doesn't trust the likes of McGuire and Buckley and feels that public comments from such people to understand/reconcile his position are staged/manufactured. He has put it back on the club - publicly acknowledge your wrongdoings/cultural insensitivities (if true) before we talk. If the club chooses not to, then that's its prerogative. If they choose not to, then in the current climate this issue will likely not go away.

If the club and those associated with it feel that Heritier's version is way off the mark, then refute it publicly with clear evidence supporting their version of events.

 

[jmac70]

I find this comment offensive. To claim that someone who has experienced racism, and who speaks out about that racism is being PC is really wrong. Speaking out against racism is not being PC. It's just another convenient way to discredit and shut down the discussion.

How do you know that the club haven’t tried to fix it?

 

[TradeDraft]

and the Idiots in the Media are loving this as they can keep Pot Shooting Collingwood.

be other Clubs have Simmlar Issues