Homesick Crows?

[PrideOf]

We were talking at work about Judd re-signing today and some bright spark said he thought we were weak for not being able to keep our talented interstate stars.

After thinking about it, the only ones we've lost to homesickness are:

Johnson (but after he contributed to two flags)
Angwin (head case anyway)

So we're not as bad as people might think, or have I missed some?

 

[DaveW]

We lost Vardy to boredom.

 

[Jars458]

What about Alan Nash, Tom Gilligan, Collins (special case), Brent Williams.

 

[marvin]

Originally posted by PrideOf
We were talking at work about Judd re-signing today and some bright spark said he thought we were weak for not being able to keep our talented interstate stars.

After thinking about it, the only ones we've lost to homesickness are:

Johnson (but after he contributed to two flags)
Angwin (head case anyway)

So we're not as bad as people might think, or have I missed some?

Tom Gilligan (draft pick 12)
Lance Picioane (draft pick 17)
Brent Williams (draft pick 18)
Matthew Collins (draft pick 38) (extenuating circumstances a la Begley / Welsh IIRC)
Andy Eccles (draft pick 60)
David Gallagher (draft pick 29 or thereabouts)

Add that to Angwin (pick 7) and Johnson (pick 27) and that's 6 top 30 picks who've packed their bags and headed home to mum's in the last 6 years - and of those, only Johnson really contributed to the team before he left.

Interestingly, of those players who went home, Gilligan and Williams never played another AFL game; Gallagher and Collins have now been delisted, and Eccles is about to join them; Picioane bounces up and down between the 1s and the 2s.
And Angwin is still awaiting the jury's verdict.

Make of that what you will.

 

[PrideOf]

The fact that the majority of these high draft picks never did much after they left us is interesting.

Were they:

* not the goods in the first place
* damaged from living away from home
* handled badly by the club (perhaps due to being allocated to yet another club in the SANFL)

??

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by PrideOf
The fact that the majority of these high draft picks never did much after they left us is interesting.

Were they:

* not the goods in the first place
* damaged from living away from home
* handled badly by the club (perhaps due to being allocated to yet another club in the SANFL)

??

Our did they just not have the mental toughness to:

1. Live away from home and therefore
2. Make the grade at the highest level.

 

[tribey]

What about the most mysterious man to ever make our list?

Ben Parker.

"Who?!" You ask - dig up the 1997 team photo from somewhere and he's there.

If I remember correctly - can't find my yearbook - I know he never played a game for us and was from Victoria. Quite strangely he only ever spent one season on our list and that was the end of him.

Anyone care to fill in the blanks?

Honourable mentions go to Ashley Fernee and Clint Kirey.

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by PrideOf
The fact that the majority of these high draft picks never did much after they left us is interesting.

Were they:

* not the goods in the first place
* damaged from living away from home
* handled badly by the club (perhaps due to being allocated to yet another club in the SANFL)

??

Probably a mixture of all 3,

maybe we need to change our head shrink that gets paid for looking into potential draft choices brains,

gonna take a while to get over the Angwin debacle.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I think its a combination of things. There is no doubt that we need to do more research into drafteees' phsychological toughnes. There is no point in draft a kid that will leave and you get nothing in return for him (ala Angwin). We definetly need to put in more time and resources into this aspect of recruiting.

Ten once they get here we also need to make sure that the system in place is perfect. We need to make sure that they fit in as soon as possible. The quicker they become comfortable the better it is for them personally and for the footy club.

 

[marvin]

Originally posted by PrideOf
The fact that the majority of these high draft picks never did much after they left us is interesting.

Were they:

* not the goods in the first place
* damaged from living away from home
* handled badly by the club (perhaps due to being allocated to yet another club in the SANFL)

??

I think it's a combination of 1 and 2 personally. Only because I know via a friend of a friend (so extremely reliably ) about one of the players on that list and the lengths the club went to to alleviate homesickness, so I think the club handles their interstate recruits as well as they can.

My suspicion is that if you are not mentally tough enough to cope with a "setback" like leaving home, other setbacks like poor form, injuries or whatever may also be more damaging to the psyche than they should and the player will fall short of the potential they appeared to have as a 17 year old.

Character is as important as talent in this game, and it's important that that's given suitable weighting when looking at draftees and recruits.

 

[PrideOf]

Ben Parker, 180cm, 83 kg from the Murray Bushrangers. Went to Sturt but I don't even think he played much for them.


I'd like to know if anyone's done a breakdown of each club's success with draft choices. We don't seem to do well with early choices, but seem to unearth regular players with late choices (like John****, Perrie & McGregor) or those who are overlooked completely and have to go through the preseason draft (Vardy, Edwards, Goodwin, Ellen, Ladhams).

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by PrideOf
Ben Parker, 180cm, 83 kg from the Murray Bushrangers. Went to Sturt but I don't even think he played much for them.


I'd like to know if anyone's done a breakdown of each club's success with draft choices. We don't seem to do well with early choices, but seem to unearth gems with late choices (like John****, Perrie & McGregor) or those who are overlooked completely and have to go through the preseason draft (Vardy, Edwards, Goodwin, Ellen, Ladhams).

We don't seem to have many problems with draft choices from WA only those from Victoria,

 

[napsyd]

Begs the question, say we have draft pick 13 (plucking a number out of the air here) at years end.

Should we set our sights on a VIC kid who is expected to be taken in the draft between 10 and 15, or an SA kid who we know is slightly less able and would probably go between 15 and 20?

In other words should we give up some potential (knowing that potential also does not equate to end result) for an SA kid who would more than likely want to stay with us for life?

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think its a combination of things. There is no doubt that we need to do more research into drafteees' phsychological toughnes.

Good point your Stiffness!! There's some nice soft basket cases in the lot mentioned so far.

You only get so many bites at the draft cherry each year - you can't afford to waste them.

 

[Leaping Lindner]

Originally posted by dyertribe
What about the most mysterious man to ever make our list?

Ben Parker.

"Who?!" You ask - dig up the 1997 team photo from somewhere and he's there.

If I remember correctly - can't find my yearbook - I know he never played a game for us and was from Victoria. Quite strangely he only ever spent one season on our list and that was the end of him.

Anyone care to fill in the blanks?

Honourable mentions go to Ashley Fernee and Clint Kirey.

Not 100% sure but I seem to remember he "quit"(?) the Crows 1/2 way or so during the season and said he'd be going home at the end of the season. He did make a commitment to Sturt to play out the rest of the season (as far as I know), but could be getting my facts muddled.

On the other subject(and as mentioned before)

DON'T PICK WEAK WILLED VICTORIAN TEENAGERS!!!!!!


And/or as Stiffy mentioned in a previous thread do some research into whether or not these guys are dinkum about playing footy interstate or they want to stay close to mummy.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Ashley Fernee

Ash was de-listed by the Crows and may have even played another season with South as he finished off his Uni in South Australia and he was going out with an SA girl.

Nice guy, but not quite up to it.

 

[PrideOf]

Drafted from WA
Logan (96 preseason) - 0 games
Rintoul (96) - 23 games (Premiership player)
Perrie (97) - 51 games (Still on list)
Stenglein (98) - 77 games (Still on list)
Kirey (98) - 0 games
5 players, 151 games

Drafted from Victoria
Geddes (92) - 0 games
Nash (94) - 0 games
Collins (94) - 13 games (but went home under 'Begley' conditions)
Williams (95) - 7 games
Johnson (95) - 104 games (premiership player)
Fernee (95) - 2 games
Ellen (96 preseason) - 27 games (premiership player)
Gilligan (96) - 3 games
Eccles (96) - 41 games
Parker (96) - 0 games
Piociane (97) - 4 games
D.Gallagher (98) - 26 games
Shir (99) - 11 games
Angwin (00) - 0 games
Handby (00) - 0 games
Smith (00) - 0 games (still on list - just)
Reilly (01) - 5 games (still on list)
Finnen (01) - 0 games
Schuback (01) - 0 games (still on list)
Begley (02) - 7 games (still on list)
20 players, 250 games

Take Johnson out and you have:
WA - 5 players, 151 games
Vic - 19 players, 146 games

Conclusion: unless they're a guaranteed superstar, don't bother drafting Vic kids.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by PrideOf
Conclusion: unless they're a guaranteed superstar, don't bother drafting Vic kids.

Perhaps another conclusion is that kids from outside Victoria are more accepting of the fact they will have to move than Victorian kids.

Take a WA kid. I know it's not random but he really only has a 1/8 chance of staying at home, whilst a VIC kid has better than 1/2.

The WA kid who puts his hand up for the draft would be mad to place all his hopes on Freo and West Coast and would probably be told so by friends and family. A Victorian kid could almost be excused for putting his hopes on a Victorian team.

Almost.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by napsyd
Begs the question, say we have draft pick 13 (plucking a number out of the air here) at years end.

Should we set our sights on a VIC kid who is expected to be taken in the draft between 10 and 15, or an SA kid who we know is slightly less able and would probably go between 15 and 20?

In other words should we give up some potential (knowing that potential also does not equate to end result) for an SA kid who would more than likely want to stay with us for life?

I am of belief that you draft the best available regardless of where they are from. However, you have to be as certain as possible that the kid that you are drafting can handle living away from home. There is no point in drafting mummy's boy whe he will leave you high and dry. Do a hell of a lot research into a draftee. If there are 2 players that are of eqaul potential and play the same position then there is no quaestion you go for the home grown talent.

I am of belief that kids from WA, NSW, QLD, SA and even VIC Country are generally more mature when it comes to moving that VIC Metro kids. I think Schuback is a good example. The fella is from the country and heis pretty happy in Adelaide and plans on staying here.

I also think the draft age is too low because of all these factors. I reckon that the age should be lifted. A 17 y.o. is less likely to settle away from home in a new city than a 19 y.o.

I don't see a problem in drafting non SA kids as long as we put in enough research into their mental toughness and their ability to adapt to new enviroment and ability to live away from home. There is no doubt that its hard to leave your family and comfort zone and embark on a new path as a 18 year old but its not the end of the world. If you put in enough effort in it you will suceed.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by PrideOf
Drafted from WA
Logan (96 preseason) - 0 games
Rintoul (96) - 23 games (Premiership player)
Perrie (97) - 51 games (Still on list)
Stenglein (98) - 77 games (Still on list)
Kirey (98) - 0 games
5 players, 151 games

Drafted from Victoria
Geddes (92) - 0 games
Nash (94) - 0 games
Collins (94) - 13 games (but went home under 'Begley' conditions)
Williams (95) - 7 games
Johnson (95) - 104 games (premiership player)
Fernee (95) - 2 games
Ellen (96 preseason) - 27 games (premiership player)
Gilligan (96) - 3 games
Eccles (96) - 41 games
Parker (96) - 0 games
Piociane (97) - 4 games
D.Gallagher (98) - 26 games
Shir (99) - 11 games
Angwin (00) - 0 games
Handby (00) - 0 games
Smith (00) - 0 games (still on list - just)
Reilly (01) - 5 games (still on list)
Finnen (01) - 0 games
Schuback (01) - 0 games (still on list)
Begley (02) - 7 games (still on list)
20 players, 250 games

Take Johnson out and you have:
WA - 5 players, 151 games
Vic - 19 players, 146 games

Conclusion: unless they're a guaranteed superstar, don't bother drafting Vic kids.

Geez, interesting reading but sad reading. With the handful of notable exceptions, what a parade of crocks!

Got the full list of interstaters we've traded for (Caven, Standfield, etc) handy? Or are they the only two?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by PrideOf
(Begley (02) - 7 games (still on list)

He is an SA boy so in reality he doesn't count

 

[Mong]

There are a lot of Vic draftees that haven't worked out but many of them were delisted simply because they weren't good enough. Even David Gallagher didn't go home because of homesickness. Gallagher's parents actually moved to Adelaide after he came over.

Johnson and Angwin are two that left when the club wanted them to stay. Gilligan may have been wanted by the club too I can't remember.

But with most of the others I doubt the club was too bothered, hence they were happy to trade them for players that they wanted. Sure, they may have left due to homesickness but it was probably due in part to their inabililty to get a game. And if they were any good I am sure the Crows would've tried to keep them and may well have kept them. We will never know, but I get the impression the Crows didn't try too hard to keep most of them.

The exceptions are Johnson, Angwin and perhaps Gilligan. And even with Johnson, we got a very good deal from him and looking at our list this year, Johnson was surplus to our needs and perfect to make a play for Carey. The Crows probably weren't too bothered about Johnson wanting to leave, meaning that we had the perfect player to offer for Wayne.

And look at the long list of Victorians from teams like West Coast, Fremantle, Sydney and Brisbane that have wanted to leave. Not to mention all the SA and WA players that want to leave Victorian clubs. We might seem like we've struggled in theis area but in reality we have fared better than most clubs.


****

 

[PrideOf]

Interstaters we've traded for (not from SA originally):

Stuart Wigney (Sydney)
Matt Connell (West Coast)
Jason McCartney (C'wood)
Peter Caven (Sydney)
Barry Standfield (Footscray)
Mark Stevens (North)
Evan Hewitt (North)
Kris Massie (Carlton)
Ronnie Burns (Geelong)

More hits than misses. A club champ, 3 premiership players in there. Get them a bit older and they'll play some good footy.

We actually trade far better than we draft.

 

[PrideOf]

Originally posted by napsyd
Perhaps another conclusion is that kids from outside Victoria are more accepting of the fact they will have to move than Victorian kids.

Plus, SA and WA players have known for 30 or 40 years that they'd probably have to move to play footy. Victorians are only really getting used to the idea now.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by PrideOf
Interstaters we've traded for (not from SA originally):

Stuart Wigney (Sydney)

More hits than misses. A club champ, 3 premiership players in there. Get them a bit older and they'll play some good footy.

We actually trade far better than we draft.

I thought Wigs was originally a South Aussie - his brother Brad played for the SA Cricket team too.