Strategy How do we fix the forward line?

[Lex22]

Dicko is done, man. He's just not athletically there and his durability has fallen off a cliff. It happens.

Mclean needs to spend max minutes in the middle. His delivery into the forward line and attack on the ball in the centre is more valuable.

I think people are writing off Tory a little soon. He’s only 30 and still showed plenty of toe to catch that biting little whippet when we played the Bombers this year.

Still our best forward and we’re a much better side when he’s there.

 

[cecil]

I think people are writing off Tory a little soon. He’s only 30 and still showed plenty of toe to catch that biting little whippet when we played the Bombers this year.

Still our best forward and we’re a much better side when he’s there.

He struggles to play through injury, and this is his second year in a row where he will have missed a huge chunk. I think he may get a year because of the amount of deadwood we have, but it's looking a bit iffy for him

 

[Mattdougie]

I think people are writing off Tory a little soon. He’s only 30 and still showed plenty of toe to catch that biting little whippet when we played the Bombers this year.

Still our best forward and we’re a much better side when he’s there.

Tory is done mate

He is cherry on the cake player, only useful in a decent team. Has no ability to win his own ball and now his deadeye kicking is gone he is of little use

 

[Lex22]

Tory is done mate

He is cherry on the cake player, only useful in a decent team. Has no ability to win his own ball and now his deadeye kicking is gone he is of little use

He struggles to play through injury, and this is his second year in a row where he will have missed a huge chunk. I think he may get a year because of the amount of deadwood we have, but it's looking a bit iffy for him

Deserves every chance to get back, he did a hamstring, not like he broke his leg or anything.

Yeah if he’s having continual soft tissue problems after this then it’s an issue but he has plenty of credits in the bank as far as I’m concerned.

Was still influential for the small time he has played this year.

 

[Mattdougie]

Deserves every chance to get back, he did a hamstring, not like he broke his leg or anything.

Yeah if he’s having continual soft tissue problems after this then it’s an issue but he has plenty of credits in the bank as far as I’m concerned.

Was still influential for the small time he has played this year.

Mate he is 30. We are 3-4 years away from finals footy what’s the point of playing him he isn’t part of the next finals tilt

 

[Lex22]

Mate he is 30. We are 3-4 years away from finals footy what’s the point of playing him he isn’t part of the next finals tilt

Cheer up, mate. We’re never as bad you think we are. How far off finals did you think we were after 2014?

Tory is still the best forward we have.

 

[Yojimbo]

Mate he is 30. We are 3-4 years away from finals footy what’s the point of playing him he isn’t part of the next finals tilt

They have to protect the younger players game time, some of them miles off physically.

 

[Mattdougie]

Cheer up, mate. We’re never as bad you think we are. How far off finals did you think we were after 2014?

Tory is still the best forward we have.

Lol I’m fine mate just think any team that is down like we are should be brutal with the guys who aren’t part of the next tilt.

Play the kids before the older guys, results don’t matter if you are not making finals finish as low as you can.

2014 like everyone I thought we were a long way off but the problem i see now is on 2016 the players bought into every single thing Bev said and did. Now they look lost and some have little interest

 

[Mattdougie]

They have to protect the younger players game time, some of them miles off physically.

They can rotate Lipinski Greene Dale Schache

 

[Lex22]

Lol I’m fine mate just think any team that is down like we are should be brutal with the guys who aren’t part of the next tilt.

Play the kids before the older guys, results don’t matter if you are not making finals finish as low as you can.

2014 like everyone I thought we were a long way off but the problem i see now is on 2016 the players bought into every single thing Bev said and did. Now they look lost and some have little interest

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying but in Tory’s case I think it’s far too soon to write him off.

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

Lol I’m fine mate just think any team that is down like we are should be brutal with the guys who aren’t part of the next tilt.

Play the kids before the older guys, results don’t matter if you are not making finals finish as low as you can.

2014 like everyone I thought we were a long way off but the problem i see now is on 2016 the players bought into every single thing Bev said and did. Now they look lost and some have little interest

Carlton, Melbourne and Brisbane have played the kids and gotten rid of the older/ dont fit our future plans players. WHAT HAS THAT DONE FOR THEM!?

The older players are as critical to a young developing team as much if not more than a first round pick.

You Personnaly seem to kick the club while its down nearly everytime in every thread. WHY MATE ?

 

[Mutt]

Carlton, Melbourne and Brisbane have played the kids and gotten rid of the older/ dont fit our future plans players. WHAT HAS THAT DONE FOR THEM!?

The older players are as critical to a young developing team as much if not more than a first round pick.

You Personnaly seem to kick the club while its down nearly everytime in every thread. WHY MATE ?

OK. Let's not get personal.

 

[Mattdougie]

Carlton, Melbourne and Brisbane have played the kids and gotten rid of the older/ dont fit our future plans players. WHAT HAS THAT DONE FOR THEM!?

The older players are as critical to a young developing team as much if not more than a first round pick.

You Personnaly seem to kick the club while its down nearly everytime in every thread. WHY MATE ?

Honesty isn’t popular

Brisbane will go past us next year

When your down admit it and rebuild properly. Don’t bs and pretend it’s all ok as Carlton have done.

Sorry but our club has been Down a lot more than it’s been up so telling the truth isn’t kicking the club it’s not talking rubbish

 

[Mattdougie]

OK. Let's not get personal.

‘‘Twas a fair question imo Mutt

 

[Next Waiting]

There was a very good illustration of the Weagles forward line in action on OTC tonight. Creating space (not clutter) and leading patterns I50 giving their good marking players one on one opportunities and reducing the opportunities for a spare to intercept or for another defender to come off their man to help. The eagles are a good kicking team, which helps, and they also have good marking and one on one players which also helps... a lot.

We fall short of their standards of kicking and the one on one players they have but regardless, our entries to a cluttered forward line is not helpful. Creating space and spread I50 and development/education re leading patterns would be beneficial IMO. Continuity in selection would help that and I think a fair bit weight should be given to those who are able and willing to compete in the air and at least halve the majority of contests...unless of course you are able to consistently hit up forwards on the lead (kicking I50 and leading patterns and then set shot conversion).

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

Honesty isn’t popular

Brisbane will go past us next year

When your down admit it and rebuild properly. Don’t bs and pretend it’s all ok as Carlton have done.

Sorry but our club has been Down a lot more than it’s been up so telling the truth isn’t kicking the club it’s not talking rubbish

OK, what makes you think Brisbane will go past as because the way I see it is

Martin (32) Is a very important player for them if not the most important, they have no up and commers to replace him.

Zorko ( same age as our dickson) is brisbanes best player.

Hodge (33) is doing a fine job down back leading the troops

Beams (28) Robinson (28) Rich (27) are all very important players at Brisbane.

On that alone and judging by the team we have been forced to feild this year due to injuries and players just simply out of form, Our list looks brighter in 2-3 years time because Brisbanes outs far outweighs our outs.

going off this year alone, we only might lose Suckling. all others have not even played yet

 

[Mattdougie]

OK, what makes you think Brisbane will go past as because the way I see it is

Martin (32) Is a very important player for them if not the most important, they have no up and commers to replace him.

Zorko ( same age as our dickson) is brisbanes best player.

Hodge (33) is doing a fine job down back leading the troops

Beams (28) Robinson (28) Rich (27) are all very important players at Brisbane.

On that alone and judging by the team we have been forced to feild this year due to injuries and players just simply out of form, Our list looks brighter in 2-3 years time because Brisbanes outs far outweighs our outs.

going off this year alone, we only might lose Suckling. all others have not even played yet

They simply have better young talent than us in my eyes.

Hodge is the only player they will lose and they will have another two very low picks this year.

They are coming up we are going down.

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

As for the coaching department. I agree it does need a shake up and a few members need to be moved on.

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

They simply have better young talent than us in my eyes.

Hodge is the only player they will lose and they will have another two very low picks this year.

They are coming up we are going down.

Martin not a big loss ?
If we had Martin this year we would have another 2 wins on the board, Yet we are stuck with stick figure English or Makeshift Roughy. one English comes on things should change but dont underestimate what a capable ruckman does for a midfeild/ team.

I beleive you undervalue our picks and over value brisbanes.

dont get me wrong they will be a good team however i genuinely beleive we jave more upside especially with an unstable coaching panel atm

 

[Mattdougie]

Martin not a big loss ?
If we had Martin this year we would have another 2 wins on the board, Yet we are stuck with stick figure English or Makeshift Roughy. one English comes on things should change but dont underestimate what a capable ruckman does for a midfeild/ team.

I beleive you undervalue our picks and over value brisbanes.

dont get me wrong they will be a good team however i genuinely beleive we jave more upside especially with an unstable coaching panel atm

Time will tell

 

[BrunswickDog]

My view on the forward line issues is largely due to the lack of player continuity in the area.

Forward lines, like the back line, are a team witin a team. They must play for each other, and know their roles.

Leading patterns, positioning, drawing defenders, isolating defenders, and structuting up, always with the aim of putting teammates in positions to maximize their strengths: this takes time, trust and continuity. Players have to trust that their teammates want them to succeed, trust their teammates to make the right decisions, trust their teammates to do the things required for team success and understand their teammates strengths and weaknesses. We don't appear to have any of this.

Due to the fact that we have seen no continuity for our forward line, no consistent voice on the field, and no real consistent forward system its no wonder we can't kick a score.

Mix in the poor kicking for goal, and we have what we have. Players leading in front of each other, players not creating space, with no understanding of players strengths and weaknesses. Players taking bad shots.

I agree with many have said that we should set our forward six and let them play together for as long as possible. Let them settle into their roles and positions and learn about each other.

I also see a role for Dickson. Keep him in the team to guide our young forwards and work with them in game to teach them basic forward craft.

Maybe a new forward line coach too.......

 

[_Mike_]

When English gets more games into him, builds a tank and a good 2 or so pre seasons under his belt, he'll be our best mobile ruck that we've had for a very long time - has a higher ceiling than Darcy did IMO (yes I know that's a big call to make).

As for Dicko, he's still useful but not whilst he's injured and I certainly wouldn't be cutting him loose at this stage. We have too many raw players to call this anything but a rebuild IMO and are another 2 years off (at least) from being serious contenders again. By the time that happens, Bont, Macrae, Hunter, Libba will be around the 24-26 year old mark (prime age) and our current crop of youngs will be in their early 20's.

 

[BRWB]

Injury has made it impossible for us to get consistent 'cohesion' to our fwd group.

Injury free:

Dahl Redpath Dickson
Picken Boyd/Rough Smith

Would be my fwd 6. Clearly impossible. We simply have to make some hard calls on seemingly chronically injured players and bring in some players who can play fwd.

Schache type recruitment was fine. Whether Schache stacks up remains to be seen.

With injuries, agree with others pick a fwd line for the future and stick with it.

For the next few weeks:

Dahl Boyd Lipinski
Webb/Dale Schache Gowers

All decent finishers bar Dahl and maybe Gowers. Dahl bring pressure. Boyd and Schache the height.

 

[DelRe]

Injury has made it impossible for us to get consistent 'cohesion' to our fwd group.

Injury free:

Dahl Redpath Dickson
Picken Boyd/Rough Smith

Would be my fwd 6. Clearly impossible. We simply have to make some hard calls on seemingly chronically injured players and bring in some players who can play fwd.

Schache type recruitment was fine. Whether Schache stacks up remains to be seen.

With injuries, agree with others pick a fwd line for the future and stick with it.

For the next few weeks:

Dahl Boyd Lipinski
Webb/Dale Schache Gowers

All decent finishers bar Dahl and maybe Gowers. Dahl bring pressure. Boyd and Schache the height.

Agree and compare it again to the round 1 fwd line of 2017 that has Crameri and Cloke in it. Doesn’t matter how good a senior or assistant coach you are that really undermines your ability to set a winning plan.

What’s also noticeable is that for defence we seemed to able to set a team based system that allowed some players to slip into a ‘role’ (much like Clarkson’s one soldier down).

The fwd lines above (which I’m not criticizing) have some fundamentally different players that means we end up playing multiple styles that will change again if the injured players com back later in the year.

Presumably that spills over to the mids who then also have to adjust to the different forward patterns. Wouldn’t it be great if you could have a series of games of Bont Libba Macrae feeding a forward line with Boyd Dickson Gowers leading at them and building that chemistry.

 

[dogwatch]

When English gets more games into him, builds a tank and a good 2 or so pre seasons under his belt, he'll be our best mobile ruck that we've had for a very long time - has a higher ceiling than Darcy did IMO (yes I know that's a big call to make).

As for Dicko, he's still useful but not whilst he's injured and I certainly wouldn't be cutting him loose at this stage. We have too many raw players to call this anything but a rebuild IMO and are another 2 years off (at least) from being serious contenders again. By the time that happens, Bont, Macrae, Hunter, Libba will be around the 24-26 year old mark (prime age) and our current crop of youngs will be in their early 20's.

FWIW Libba is already 26. Still young enough though.