How do we take the next step to a premiership?

[Section 5]

Not knowing our salary cap position or draft targets i won't suggest a wish list that's unattainable

Not expecting Hippy & Rayner to have big impact next year. See Rayner playing his usual role F/M until later in year
Hopefully Rayner gets back to good form around the bye and Hippy near finals time
Club will pick someone from our list to play KPF most likely Payne. Can see Payne playing the McStay previous few years role

Bailey & J Berry are the key. Bailey i am confident of, but Berry not so much
Bailey to have a breakout year in his 5th season to go close to elite level playing mostly mid. Shows signs just hope he will deliver
Berry to hopefully take that big bodied mid position we need on a regular basis.
However injuries and sickness over the past few seasons does not give me great confidence. Just hope all comes together for him
If Jack Redden

8

Jack Redden

Age

35

Ht

190cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.6

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

4.7

4star

T

5.7

5star

CL

3.9

5star

D

15.0

4star

K

7.3

3star

HB

7.8

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.3

3star

CL

1.5

4star

D

15.4

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.6

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

4.8

5star

was cheap to get i would bring him back for 2 years until Rayner or some youth are ready. They resigned Matho so that probably won't happen
Need big improvement from Cockatoo, Prior, Robertson & T Berry
Steady improvement from Fullarton assuming he is retained

Every year someone gets their break into best 22 hopefully they play well
I am sure we will hear about delisting's soon. That will give us a better understanding on what the club's intentions will be going into trade and draft time
I see us being top 6 again next year without having to improve much
Regarding the premiership you just need to be back to best form during finals. Easier said than done, But we should be a chance.

We have 4 ruck/forward/defender on the OOC list. Fullarton, Archie, Ballenden & Lane. I imagine Fullarton stays as he has been the preferred option.
Be interesting to see what the Club does with this list

OOC 2021
Tom Fullarton
Archie Smith

44

Archie Smith

Age

30

Ht

203cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

6.9

4star

CL

2.1

4star

HO

14.4

5star

D

4.7

1star

K

1.7

1star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

2.0

4star

HO

11.3

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

3.4

2star

HB

9.0

5star

CL

3.0

5star

HO

17.8

5star

(R)
Connor Ballenden (R)
Thomas Joyce
James Madden (R)
Brock Smith
Keidean Coleman
Kalin Lane (R)

 

[On the quiet]

I like this idea. I think it's important that we still get games into Payne, if it's as a forward so be it. Other clubs will continue to come after him if he's not getting selected. He'd be best 22 for plenty of other clubs.

I don't love the idea of moving Harris forward, but it could be a savvy move until Hipwood gets back. A backline of Adams, Gardiner and Payne is still solid. In fact, they're probably all more accountable 1 on 1 than Harris at the moment. Could always move the magnets around on game day if things get dire. I'd actually prefer this to playing Fullarton currently.

I agree we have to get games into Payne. But think whilst Hipwood is out he could play a role forward, obviously depends how, and if, he trains in the forwards in preseason and the trials. With his stress fractures don't think he should be doing any centre bounces. Just don't think Fullerton is ready yet, but a few added kilos in the off season might make some difference.

 

[lioninthesand]

The list we have now and the coach we have now is eminently capable of winning a flag, just need a little luck re timing of injuries.... IMO.

The only thing we are desperately short of is a capable mature backup ruck for Big O, heaven forbid if O went down.

Not many teams could cover 2 best 22 KPFs being out of a big final, you can cover 1 adequately, there are limits to how much good depth you can carry, no decent KPF is going to want to be at a club where he is 5th in line for a senior position.

Yeah I sit entirely comfortable with where we are at Jase. The eventual results showed we did well againts the odds againts 2 good teams.

All good with where we are placed.

Was just being a smart ass in relation to the 'we would be in a GF if X, Y, Z happened' talk - I just think it's a stretch and tbh, a waste of time.

We are a good young team who need to perform better in finals and I think we can, that's where we sit - dreaming and hypothesising about lost GF chances when we didn't actually do it in the real world, I just don't get it.

 

[lioninthesand]

Nobody is saying it was the one that got away more so that going out in straight sets looks worse than it actually was

And the finals records doesn't look so bad considering we've never played a final against a non-top 2 team

I 100% agree with this post. Straight sets looks much better now. Also Cats and Port take the heat off us. I am way more content after last night.

Just not going to then stretch that to, "we would be in a GF right now" - suppose that's the line for me.

 

[Some_guy]

I think we have the talent on the list to win it. The problem seems to be between the ears so to speak. We've shown we can match it with every team, its just a matter of sustaining that form over longer periods. Maybe that's the result of the game plan and that needs to be tweaked. I don't really know.

It just seems like you never really know which Lions team is going to show up on the day, especially in finals

 

[AFLQLD]

i think from this point on, improvement is going to need to come from inside the club and not from those we bring in, except possibly a backup ruck. Unless the club has some real surprises and more salary cap
than we think what we have is what we need to work with.

With that in mind here are the first three I would like to see improvement from:

Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

27

Ht

193cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

:hopefully gets back to his best and then some. Better awareness and disposal, more damaging around contests, more impact of his defensive game. He is capable of being a real mid/forward weapon. I would be happy if he got to a B+ dependable type of player. It feels like he missed a year of development and improvement this year and was showing some signs near the end of being the player he was previously. But the next step is needed from him. Hopefully he has a great preseason and is stronger next year.

Kiddy Coleman: it is easy to see that he is on the border of being something. What that something is remains to be seen. He could simply be a reliable best 22 defender with a bit of rebound, good read of the ball and some speed. Or, he could exceed that and become a genuine danger player who turns defence into attack and breaks opposition lines. His skills are good enough and he has some game nous but next season, with a decent run in his new position, he might have a breakout season and that would greatly improve our chances of scoring from our defensive half and reducing the fast breakaway goals by the opposition. His development might be one of the keys to the sort of season we have.

Callum Ah Chee

4

Callum Ah Chee

Age

28

Ht

182cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.5

3star

D

11.1

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.1

3star

D

9.4

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.8

4star

: something of a make or break season for him coming up I feel. I feel he will still play a role as a utility small defender/ wing/small forward on the edge of best 22. But if he can become a dangerous runner and good pressure player who can have the occasional game where he shuts down an opposition star while scoring a couple himself, I think we get the most value from him. He is probably a C+ player at the moment and we gain a lot if he can become a B grader with the occasional starring performance. If he is getting picked each week we need it to be because he is impossible to ignore, rather than because no young players have nabbed his spot.

 

[Dalions]

A bit of credit to Goodwin.

He's got them peaking at the right time and took the foot off the pedal in matches they didn't need to win. Circumstance or by design ? I think more by design.

Are you saying they deliberately lost those games?

 

[martinson]

Are you saying they deliberately lost those games?

Well no. Back in the day when I was more closely involved with people in the game a couple of now legendary coaches were masters at just easing up on the training pressure , not putting a whole lot of planning or intensity into the preparation of games , giving anyone carrying something a little less to do , all in all being prepared to drop a game for the sake of their team's overall prep for finals. It doesn't mean the players didn't try when they went out there , just that the build up and physical and mental prep wasn't there.

You can't go a whole season plus finals at 100% every game. The difference in intensity and the work put into opposition players in the Melbourne who lost those 2 or 3 games and the one that turned up this week was palpable. Good coaching . Has them cherry ripe at the right time.

 

[Sanchez365]

I felt like we really fell out of the Melbourne game once McStay went down and our forward structure was completely done. Does the game plan relying on three tall targets lead us to be more susceptible to injuries derailing our games? As mentioned KPF the hardest position on the ground and with our territory gameplan relying so much on these tall targets creating a contest it is a fair gamble, especially considering Danniher has not been known for his injury free run in previous years.

Perhaps with Hipwood out all year this is a good opportunity to experiment with a slightly smaller forward line. Get Danniher / McStay back into the ruck duties and look for a third tall type like a Gunston or Mcfayden. Maybe it's unrealistic to expect to have all 3 KPFs on the park each week anyways.

 

[lioninthesand]

I don't know how the team takes the next step, succsess in footy comes in strange ways these days.

But as fans, I know how we take the next steps (5 months) - it was just made a whole lot easier with the Cats and Port completely wetting the bed.

My footy mantra until the first bounce round 1.. "at least we arn't Port".

 

[Dalions]

Our average games experience for the best 22 without Birchall next year will drop to the low 100’s.
And average age will be back to around 25.8 maybe?
So pretty young, yet pretty talented group.
We will drop in experience and age without him, but I do think we will be better served particularly defensively and will hopefully have a bit more speed in the team which will help the dynamic in attack and speed of defence to be able to slow down other teams ball movement better.

I keep going back to the Geelong game this year in Round 15 where I thought we had the best balanced team of the year.

This was the team that day-
There would be a couple of changes like Bez for Prior, Kiddy to play back and Rayner in the team probably for Dev or AhChee and a toss up between Gardiner and Payne who played that day but the structure and the balance of the team remains pretty much the same.

 

[davemc_lions]

Watched both the prelims
Seems Melb and Dogs had 5 extra players on the ground as they all run hard both ways.
We have no pace off the backline or mids and take too long to move the ball when we get it
Go boundary too much looking for a ball in.

When we do play fast we look like a better team.
Although our mids are too small, do not work well defensively and they all ball hunt.
We do not spread well. When we play sides with bigger mids you see we need 2-3 to bring one player down
Which releases outside players to cut through us.
As good a players Neale and Lyon are they do not hurt teams.
Same as Tom Mitchell gets 30-40 disposals although do not hurt teams.
We do not have a mid that can open up the game if we need to.

Like the Cats can see us making finals next year.. We have a similar game plan which I do not think can win a GF

The Dogs game felt like the GWS semi a few years ago. We do not lower eyes too many hack kicks inside 50 that get cut off.
Both games we should of won by 3-4 goals umpires did not totally loose it for us.

We lost to both grand finalists twice this year. Which shows we off the pace.
Swans be a better side next year they beat us as well.

As my Cats mate said making finals after winning lots of home and away games
Then loosing finals each year can be worse as you had hope

 

[Toffee Lion]

I strongly believe we don't have to tweak too much.

Things certainly did not fall our way this year with injuries, the 1-3 start and then a form slump close to finals after a terrific mid portion of the season. Yet we pushed through the adversity and ended up being only 1 point off making a prelim, where I think we would have torched Port Adelaide as well.

We still have a large contingient of young players in our best 22 that will have gained invaluable experience and will improve heading into the next campaign. While I don't think any of our older guys will drop off a cliff yet either. We will be primed for a good tilt in 2022.

I'd like to see a bit more from guys like Berry, Cockatoo & Ah Chee, players who are on the bottom end of our 22. Otherwise we'll need guys like Dev Robbo, Prior, Madden & Answerth to have more of an impact to dislodge them.

Also fingers crossed we strike gold with our first rounders this year to further help our depth.

 

[dlanod]

My post specifically said after the arrivals of Lachie, Linc which I think when JL and Adams arrived.

Since then we have been relatively salary capped because of the commitments to Lachie and Lyons. We had cap space for another splashy recruitment and that obviously went to Joe.

 

[briztoon]

Since then we have been relatively salary capped because of the commitments to Lachie and Lyons. We had cap space for another splashy recruitment and that obviously went to Joe.

I don’t believe Lyons was on that much.

Whiting reported that Lyons wasn’t on as much as he was getting at Gold Coast per year, but he got a 3 with year deal which totaled more than what he would have got in his last year at GC.

 

[ForzaRoma]

It frustrates me that we've finished in the top 4 in the last 3 years and couldn't make a grand final, whereas Melbourne came from nowhere and have been able to do what we couldn't. Even if they don't win the flag, they would have already done better than us. The same for bulldogs. It must be genuinely hard to be a Brisbane, port or Geelong supporter. We're as bad as each other when it comes to capitalising on finals momentum.

However, I'm sure Fagan is well aware there is no more excuses now. We've had enough finals experience and 1 win in 6 games is appalling. No matter which way you look at it. Fagan's contract ends at the end of 2023, which I think is our premiership window and I'm sure he knows he doesn't want to leave the club without taking us to at least a grand final. These next two years will be interesting, and hopefully this time Fagan comes in with the no more excuses mantra and realise that our finals record must be fixed. Onwards and upwards.

 

[a mayes ing]

Think it is a little bit unlucky. 2019 *i think( and this year, we got knocked out by playing both the grand finalists in our first 2 games.
2019: Richmond, Was it GWS?
2021:Melbourne, Bulldogs

 

[bungalow_bill]

Melbourne didn't really come from nowhere they were top 4 in 2018.

Tigers also were a finals team for many years before they broke through in 2017

 

[ForzaRoma]

Melbourne didn't really come from nowhere they were top 4 in 2018.

Tigers also were a finals team for many years before they broke through in 2017

They didn't make the finals in 3 years? It's fair to say they did come out of nowhere. And Richmond finished 5th in 2016 and 8th the year before that, so it's not really the same at all.

I think we need to do a Melbourne here and take advantage of our off-field departures by bringing in a new coaching department. Not just in the midfield, but let's try to improve other areas at all. I think fresh ideas is a must, because what we're doing isn't working. Fagan needs to have different ideas around him, and who knows, maybe one of them will be the difference between failing another finals campaign and winning the flag?

 

[briztoon]

They didn't make the finals in 3 years? It's fair to say they did come out of nowhere. And Richmond finished 5th in 2016 and 8th the year before that, so it's not really the same at all.

I think we need to do a Melbourne here and take advantage of our off-field departures by bringing in a new coaching department. Not just in the midfield, but let's try to improve other areas at all. I think fresh ideas is a must, because what we're doing isn't working. Fagan needs to have different ideas around him, and who knows, maybe one of them will be the difference between failing another finals campaign and winning the flag?

You need to learn maths.

 

[Nunez]

You need to learn maths.

Quality post

 

[Paul Mac]

It frustrates me that we've finished in the top 4 in the last 3 years and couldn't make a grand final, whereas Melbourne came from nowhere and have been able to do what we couldn't. Even if they don't win the flag, they would have already done better than us. The same for bulldogs. It must be genuinely hard to be a Brisbane, port or Geelong supporter. We're as bad as each other when it comes to capitalising on finals momentum.

However, I'm sure Fagan is well aware there is no more excuses now. We've had enough finals experience and 1 win in 6 games is appalling. No matter which way you look at it. Fagan's contract ends at the end of 2023, which I think is our premiership window and I'm sure he knows he doesn't want to leave the club without taking us to at least a grand final. These next two years will be interesting, and hopefully this time Fagan comes in with the no more excuses mantra and realise that our finals record must be fixed. Onwards and upwards.

Have always said to people ( starting from last year) if we don't win a flag in the next 5 years ( starting from last year ) then you can say we have underachieved. I like to wait to see what happens in the future before saying whether we have wasted our opportunity or not just yet. We still have the opportunity so not throwing the baby out with the bathwater yet.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think we need to do a Melbourne here and take advantage of our off-field departures by bringing in a new coaching department. Not just in the midfield, but let's try to improve other areas at all. I think fresh ideas is a must, because what we're doing isn't working. Fagan needs to have different ideas around him, and who knows, maybe one of them will be the difference between failing another finals campaign and winning the flag?

We did bring in Mark Stone a year ago.

 

[Lazza16]

It is gunna be a long off seasonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

 

[RegionalLion]

We are definitely in a good place overall, but each year others move themselves into a better one. The Bulldogs added quality to a very deep midfield as well drafting great young talent and a no 1 development Kpp with another one coming. Melbourne has the key things we currently lack - petracca/ Oliver types, and a dominant ruck - with arguably the best choices (with some luck) from recent drafts.

We have a great midfield a good core of defenders and great forward line options but as identified we lacks the pace, big bodied crash types in the middle and X factor (we have some but not as much as others). We also have a good ruck in big O who brings effort and heart in swags but needs support to rival the ruck dept of other teams. The other thing we don’t really have is the tagging midfielder which is still underrated IMO. Trading in this kind of talent would be very expensive so hopefully we can get the draft right the next few years.

I haven’t seen much of Ashcroft and Fletcher but still some areas that if we can address we will be premiership contenders and have the advantage of longevity in the list to be up the top for a long time which is great.