How long do Kochie and Thomas wait?

[TeeKray]

There was nothing wrong with that speech from Koch. He told the players as a group after the game that if they are just happy to be playing AFL and aren't serious about winning premierships then ask for a trade because we don't want you here. That's literally straight out of the creed.

I know there have been some things Kochie could have done better over the years but tonight and this season isn't on him.

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

More like how long do the supporters wait before going for KT and Koch?

It's at that point. No more platitudes, no more empty bullshit. To think we trusted you all implicitly. If you fail to act, you will never gain that trust back and it will be all over.

Your move.

What?

 

[afl2004]

2 out of the last 4 years we had a golden opportunity to make a gf and failed and we have blown both opportunities the same way. Its not 2013 anymore we should not just be happy to have made the finals. Hinkley has done nothing as a coach. I'm sick of this shit . We exist to be nice thats it and while the crows could win a flag and they are the most pathetic and most evil people in this country and they could get everything they want while walk around with our hands up our ass. Pathetic waste of spaces we have become and to the people who say "I'm proud of our boys" go ****ing die

 

[TeeKray]

2 out of the last 4 years we had a golden opportunity to make a gf and failed and we have blown both opportunities the same way. Its not 2013 anymore we should not just be happy to have made the finals. Hinkley has done nothing as a coach. I'm sick of this shit . We exist to be nice thats it and while the crows could win a flag and they are the most pathetic and most evil people in this country and they could get everything they want while walk around with our hands up our ass. Pathetic waste of spaces we have become and to the people to say "I'm proud of our boys" go ******* die

We were never making the grand final this year, it's not at all comparable to 2014 in that sense.

 

[afl2004]

We were never making the grand final this year, it's not at all comparable to 2014 in that sense.

I think gws are very beatable and richmond well i just cant trust them and we play better at the mcg but you're properly right . Modern Pafc winning 6 in a row lmfao

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

There was nothing wrong with that speech from Koch. He told the players as a group after the game that if they are just happy to be playing AFL and aren't serious about winning premierships then ask for a trade because we don't want you here. That's literally straight out of the creed.

I know there have been some things Kochie could have done better over the years but tonight and this season isn't on him.

Is this any different from the 'you're a good bloke but you won't succeed' talk about the delistees last year?

 

[tribey]

We were never making the grand final this year, it's not at all comparable to 2014 in that sense.

From 5th at the end of 23 rounds, or if we'd taken just 1 of the 6 or 7 gilt-edged chances we had to make the top-4?

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Like seriously, which of our players would say they aren't willing to work for a premiership here?

It's the coaches and the list managers job to actually work out who can and can not do it.

We did the same spiel last year. The 'we know who you are' talk at the B&F. Followed by delisting of only fringe players. Like great, well done, premiership winning decision there.

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

spewing we kicked a bit poorly...

 

[tribey]

Like seriously, which of our players would say they aren't willing to work for a premiership here?

It's the coaches and the list managers job to actually work out who can and can not do it.

We did the same spiel last year. The 'we know who you are' talk at the B&F. Followed by delisting of only fringe players. Like great, well done, premiership winning decision there.

This.

3 years for one losing (home) final after the highwater mark.

Still content with talk? Righto.

 

[tribey]

spewing we kicked a bit poorly...

Are you being sarcastic, trolling or still in fantasyland?

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

I'd like someone to come out and say we no longer cannot trust you guys to get the job done. We'll give you every chance next season to win that trust but right now we have zero confidence in you guys as a playing group to take us to a premiership and that's why you need to accept whatever happens.

 

[tribey]

I'd like someone to come out and say we no longer cannot trust you guys to get the job done. We'll give you every chance next season to win that trust but right now we have zero confidence in you guys as a playing group to take us to a premiership and that's why you need to accept whatever happens.

At the end of the day, what has this group achieved really?

Limped into the 8 with a 12-10 record and a very young group in 2013, upset a highly-fancied Collingwood on the MCG and held a 4-goal HT lead against the Cats the week after before being overrun. Good start.

With natural and expected improvement, rocketed to a 10-1 start in 2014. Fell in a hole and blew top-2/4 to enter finals in 5th with a 14-8 record. Destroyed Richmond. Very good comeback over Freo. Just fell short against the dynastic Hawks in an away Prelim and were considered a genuine flag fancy in 2015. That late flurry clearly papered over what was a gilt-edged opportunity squandered, but hey, the only way is up.

2015. Jekyll & Hyde - did the double over Hawthorn but lost to Brisbane and Carlton. And missed the eight. Bad.

2016. Similar to 2015. Very bad.

2017. We're all well aware who we beat and who we couldn't. Qualified for finals sure, but cripes. Bad.

Gold Coast would kill for our last three years, but they're Gold Coast.

 

[Muunky Tuunk Man]

At the end of the day, what has this group achieved really?

Nothing - that is why so many of us are annoyed with the state of the club at the moment.

 

[tribey]

Nothing - that is why so many of us are annoyed with the state of the club at the moment.

For all the 'Live The Creed', 'WETWP' and other associated winning-is-everything romanticising of Portonian canon, we've developed a puzzling tendency to deify individuals who have achieved very little in the wider scheme of things.

The unflinching loyalty to Primus as a player and coach; Williams permitted to run the club like his personal fiefdom flag or no; the cult worship of Brett Ebert, Matt Thomas, David Rodan and Tom Logan (all as honest as the day was long, but we ceased winning an awful lot when they were frontliners and there was much wailing when they were phased out); and I'm seeing emotive defences of the likes of Trengove and Hinkley everywhere.

And that sort of thing is fine in isolation if that's what floats your boat, but somewhere along the way we stopped being true to who and what we are. Plenty of nice guys have walked through the door at Alberton in the past 147 years. A lot of those guys became reliable first teamers. Stars even. Others weren't much chop or reached their use-by date and found themselves shipped elsewhere. A few absolute legends even got tapped on the shoulder when circumstances required it.

But it almost invariably happened at the right time. Only very rarely did someone overstay their usefulness to the club and it served us well to the point where we became so successful we outgrew our regional confines.

Curiously, at AFL level we don't just show undue loyalty to those types, but put them on a pedestal, as if we're some clown car like Freo, who spent their first five or six years with the likes of Shaun McManus and Shane Parker as leading lights, which made the incoming Paul Haslebys and Peter Bells look like Russell Ebert and Craig Bradley in comparison.

Similarly, because we were such an impoverished, underfunded shitshow in 2011/12, and that changed in 2013/14 so we actually unlocked the supressed potential that was already here (Boak, Gray, Westhoff, Schulz, Wingard, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Kornes, Trengove, Pittard, Lobbe, Carlile, Broadbent, et al), Hinkley temporarily looked like a budding Jack Cahill.

But he's not.

And after the results of 2015-2017, three full years of underachievement, he shouldn't be here on Monday morning.

But he will be, because it's not about cleaning out the no-hopers and existing to win premierships anymore. It's hollow platitudes, empty threats and endless credits in the bank.

It's high time we cut the bullshit and decided who and what we want to be.

 

[OneGreatClub]

I couldn't believe the shit I read on there. Parallel universe.

The antithesis of our BF forum. Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in-between? Plenty of supporters from oppo clubs on social media praising our team, expressing their condolences etc and reckon we have a bright future but I can't even imagine what is going through our administration's heads right now because mine is completely muddled. We appear to have so many things that need fixing

Talented but they didn't necessarily deserve to win a premiership either.

Other than Robbie, our other talented players (Boak, Westhoff, Hartlett, Ryder) and younger players (Wines, Wingard) are far from having fulfilled their potential as superstars of the competition.
They don't deserve our sympathy.

I hardly noticed Robbie Gray. Where was he when we needed him?

There was nothing wrong with that speech from Koch. He told the players as a group after the game that if they are just happy to be playing AFL and aren't serious about winning premierships then ask for a trade because we don't want you here. That's literally straight out of the creed.

I know there have been some things Kochie could have done better over the years but tonight and this season isn't on him.

Judging by Houston's response post game, he wants to win Premierships. Poor kid looked utterly devastated

 

[*PAF]

The 2006 Geelong review is the Gold Standard for football club reviews.

Only because they went on to win. Had they not it would be seen as just another review.

Lets face it, with the players they had thanks to the old style FS rule, a drover's dog would have got them a premiership.

 

[*PAF]

For all the 'Live The Creed', 'WETWP' and other associated winning-is-everything romanticising of Portonian canon, we've developed a puzzling tendency to deify individuals who have achieved very little in the wider scheme of things.

The unflinching loyalty to Primus as a player and coach; Williams permitted to run the club like his personal fiefdom flag or no; the cult worship of Brett Ebert, Matt Thomas, David Rodan and Tom Logan (all as honest as the day was long, but we ceased winning an awful lot when they were frontliners and there was much wailing when they were phased out); and I'm seeing emotive defences of the likes of Trengove and Hinkley everywhere.

And that sort of thing is fine in isolation if that's what floats your boat, but somewhere along the way we stopped being true to who and what we are. Plenty of nice guys have walked through the door at Alberton in the past 147 years. A lot of those guys became reliable first teamers. Stars even. Others weren't much chop or reached their use-by date and found themselves shipped elsewhere. A few absolute legends even got tapped on the shoulder when circumstances required it.

But it almost invariably happened at the right time. Only very rarely did someone overstay their usefulness to the club and it served us well to the point where we became so successful we outgrew our regional confines.

Curiously, at AFL level we don't just show undue loyalty to those types, but put them on a pedestal, as if we're some clown car like Freo, who spent their first five or six years with the likes of Shaun McManus and Shane Parker as leading lights, which made the incoming Paul Haslebys and Peter Bells look like Russell Ebert and Craig Bradley in comparison.

Similarly, because we were such an impoverished, underfunded shitshow in 2011/12, and that changed in 2013/14 so we actually unlocked the supressed potential that was already here (Boak, Gray, Westhoff, Schulz, Wingard, Hartlett, Ebert, Jonas, Kornes, Trengove, Pittard, Lobbe, Carlile, Broadbent, et al), Hinkley temporarily looked like a budding Jack Cahill.

But he's not.

And after the results of 2015-2017, three full years of underachievement, he shouldn't be here on Monday morning.

But he will be, because it's not about cleaning out the no-hopers and existing to win premierships anymore. It's hollow platitudes, empty threats and endless credits in the bank.

It's high time we cut the bullshit and decided who and what we want to be.

Yep. And yep again.

We sure seem to be pre Blight Crow like.
I is good ... enough.

 

[thundercloud]

At the end of the day, what has this group achieved really?

Limped into the 8 with a 12-10 record and a very young group in 2013, upset a highly-fancied Collingwood on the MCG and held a 4-goal HT lead against the Cats the week after before being overrun. Good start.

With natural and expected improvement, rocketed to a 10-1 start in 2014. Fell in a hole and blew top-2/4 to enter finals in 5th with a 14-8 record. Destroyed Richmond. Very good comeback over Freo. Just fell short against the dynastic Hawks in an away Prelim and were considered a genuine flag fancy in 2015. That late flurry clearly papered over what was a gilt-edged opportunity squandered, but hey, the only way is up.

2015. Jekyll & Hyde - did the double over Hawthorn but lost to Brisbane and Carlton. And missed the eight. Bad.

2016. Similar to 2015. Very bad.

2017. We're all well aware who we beat and who we couldn't. Qualified for finals sure, but cripes. Bad.

Gold Coast would kill for our last three years, but they're Gold Coast.

Always look on the bright side of life is ob not your motto. Is your life that bad in retrospect

 

[thundercloud]

We tend to lionise 2014 but we blew that as well.

From 10-1 and a monty for top-2/4 to 14-8 and the hardest of roads that we inevitably fell on.

And we're still giving the coach the benefit of the doubt.

No doubt from me expert, extension of 2 years

 

[Needs Gravy]

There was nothing wrong with that speech from Koch. He told the players as a group after the game that if they are just happy to be playing AFL and aren't serious about winning premierships then ask for a trade because we don't want you here. That's literally straight out of the creed.

I know there have been some things Kochie could have done better over the years but tonight and this season isn't on him.

My only issue is he but it all on the players and excused Ken from the problem/s. No doubt from that speech there is already an extension for Ken in the works and management think the issue is the playing group. Did not need to single out Ken just talk about the group as a collective.

 

[TeeKray]

From 5th at the end of 23 rounds, or if we'd taken just 1 of the 6 or 7 gilt-edged chances we had to make the top-4?

I get that in ladder terms we were in it and that there aren't many strong teams, etc, but nobody could say we have at any stage this season played even close to the level that Adelaide, Richmond and Sydney regularly produce. We finished 7th after finals. Maybe we could have got 4th or 5th. But does it really matter? Last night hurts primarily because of the way that it unfolded. We didn't burn a shot at the flag because we were never in it.

 

[Pt Augusta Power]

It's going to be very hard to get pumped for next season. Groundhog Day.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

From 5th at the end of 23 rounds, or if we'd taken just 1 of the 6 or 7 gilt-edged chances we had to make the top-4?

Sliding doors question ... If we had taken one of those chances, let's say the Geelong game...

Would we have played Marshall, Howard, Johnson, Bonner? And which would be the better position to be in now?

Not singling you out, it was just your question prompted that thought in my still delirious brain.

 

[Needs Gravy]

It's going to be very hard to get pumped for next season. Groundhog Day.

I think that has been part of the issue this year. It feels like this has been one long season, starting in 2015