Society & Culture How old is 15 really?

[Power King]

[youtube]75XKGVwGEt4[/youtube]

We live in a society that has always viewed anyone under the age of 18 as entirely innocent angels that can never do any wrong, regardless of the situation. Apparently, once the second hand of the clock ticks over and your age turns into this magical figure, you suddenly become a mature person capable of making your own decisions. Right up until this second though, any teenager under this age is held as accountable for their decision-making ability as much as a three year old toddler.

Killed a person? Didn't know what they were doing. r*ped a victim? Didn't know what they were doing. Lying about their age in order to do activities that only adults can participate in? Didn't know what they were doing.

Dave Chappelle asks the socially minded question that has more merit than appears on the surface - how old is 15, really?

For the people that cannot comprehend the point of this thread/video, race is not the issue.

 

[Kipz]

15 is now the age that marks 2 years of having sexual intercourse for most teenage girls.

A very good age IMO

 

[Kahuna]

15 is now the age that marks 2 years of having sexual intercourse for most teenage girls.

A very good age IMO

Second this.

ripe age for picking.

 

[lewigie]

15 isn't "mature". It's a time for exploring, experimenting, etc. I guess that's why it marks 2 years of sexual intercourse..

But yeah, murder and such. It can be argued that they don't know what they're doing. The mind is juvenile and unable to make the correct decisions IMO.

 

[cmndstab]

15 isn't "mature". It's a time for exploring, experimenting, etc. I guess that's why it marks 2 years of sexual intercourse..

But yeah, murder and such. It can be argued that they don't know what they're doing. The mind is juvenile and unable to make the correct decisions IMO.

There is no way a 15 year old doesn't know that murdering someone is wrong. They're not able to make rational decision, but "don't kill/rape people" doesn't require exactly require a lot of rational thought.

 

[ClarkeM]

18 is perfect. Leave it at that. No more, no less.

 

[Power King]

18 is perfect. Leave it at that. No more, no less.

I'm not really arguing that there needs to be a change of 'legal age', but more so arguing that the way teenagers younger than 18 are viewed should change when it comes to responsibility for what I deem as relatively simple decision-making (which is a result of the aforementioned 'rational' thought process).

 

[ClarkeM]

I'm not arguing either

 

[lewigie]

There is no way a 15 year old doesn't know that murdering someone is wrong. They're not able to make rational decision, but "don't kill/rape people" doesn't require exactly require a lot of rational thought.

I agree. But, I don't think the brain/mind/whatever is developed enough to be able to make a completely rational decision - eg understand the consequences of their actions. I mean, a 4 year old can kill another child by holding their head underwater, and just think that they're playing. The kid doesn't know the consequences associated with what he's done, because his mind can't form a fully fledged rational thought.

IMO.

 

[cmndstab]

I agree. But, I don't think the brain/mind/whatever is developed enough to be able to make a completely rational decision - eg understand the consequences of their actions. I mean, a 4 year old can kill another child by holding their head underwater, and just think that they're playing. The kid doesn't know the consequences associated with what he's done, because his mind can't form a fully fledged rational thought.

IMO.

A four year old, sure. I can accept that.

By 15? I'm less convinced.

Where the magical "cut-off" point is, I'm not so sure.

 

[Histrionics]

too old

 

[lewigie]

A four year old, sure. I can accept that.

By 15? I'm less convinced.

Where the magical "cut-off" point is, I'm not so sure.

Mmm, 15 is pushing it. Still a juvenile though.

Turning 18 is definitely a turning point, I reckon.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

A four year old, sure. I can accept that.

By 15? I'm less convinced.

Where the magical "cut-off" point is, I'm not so sure.

Don't confuse "can't be tried as an adult" with "getting off scot free".
A 15 year old can still be charged with murder, and can still spend years in detention. The difference is they will go through children's courts, must be deemed capable of being culpable, if found guilty spend the first few years of detention in youth detention, and when they get out will have their record wiped.
I suspect that generally a 15 year old would be found capable of understanding that something like murder is both wrong and illegal, and proving mental capacity would not be a big issue in most cases. The age at which a person simply can not be tried is significantly younger. I think in some states it might be 12, or it may have dropped further.

 

[Caesar]

18 is an arbitrary cutoff for childhood/adulthood, but it's a convenient one. It's when most people finish school, perhaps join the workforce, maybe move away from home.

We live in a society that has always viewed anyone under the age of 18 as entirely innocent angels that can never do any wrong, regardless of the situation. Apparently, once the second hand of the clock ticks over and your age turns into this magical figure, you suddenly become a mature person capable of making your own decisions. Right up until this second though, any teenager under this age is held as accountable for their decision-making ability as much as a three year old toddler.

Killed a person? Didn't know what they were doing. r*ped a victim? Didn't know what they were doing. Lying about their age in order to do activities that only adults can participate in? Didn't know what they were doing.

One slight quibble - this isn't quite true. In Australia, under the doctrine of doli incapax a child under 10 is considered to have no mental capacity to commit a crime and thus cannot be charged.

Children from 10 to 14 are also subject to doli incapax, but on a presumed rather than absolute basis. This means the Prosecution can overturn that presumption by proving that the child did have the mental capacity (e.g. showing that they knew what they were doing was wrong, showing that they formed the requisite intent to act).

Once someone turns 14 they are presumed as fully mentally capable of committing crimes as any adult, but until 18 they are tried as a minor, which does involve some advantages over being tried as an adult (particularly with regards to sentencing).

/pedant

 

[Power King]

Good post, but what is admissible in a court of law doesn't always reflect the general view of society.

 

[Caesar]

Oh, that's definitely true.

 

[jallyward]

18 is pretty

 

[Ben the Gooner]

180 months.

 

[ClarkeM]

5,479 days

 

[The Shermanator]

131,487.192 hours...

 

[rocker_oz33]

5,479 days

what about leap years

bye the way 15 is still jail bait.

 

[indieswan96]

1 year old than me.

 

[c00lcat]

what about leap years

bye the way 15 is still jail bait.

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bye

 

[rofltown]

18 is perfect. Leave it at that. No more, no less.

only someone 18 or younger would say something like that

 

[lewigie]

you just mad cos you gotta go to big boy jail. rofltown.