I agree with McDermott - we are rebuilding.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Stevens led AFCcontested marks and overall marks. States aren't everything, but that is significant. Also he did some pretty good jobs on some key defenders and kicked a lot of sneaky goals with great consistency. He isn't a star, but he's definitely worth persisting with.

I reckon if he was 18-20 again, he would be the type of player you could develop into an oversized midfielder, although I'm sure many would dispute me on this.

I hope this is what they do with Greg Gallman (although he is a bit smaller than Stevens).

 

[Damp Squarie]

You are right, He does look comfortable at times. Then put him up against a Geelong or a West Coast where the pressure is on and he crumbles. The bloke really doesn't even look like a footballer against these types, and it's these types we need him to stand up against. Way too suspect for my liking

I think its a harsh call on Stevo- Whilst there may be better players around, until we have them, we're silly to get rid of him.

 

[UL NVR WLK ALN]

I think its a harsh call on Stevo- Whilst there may be better players around, until we have them, we're silly to get rid of him.

The same could be said for Torney. But the rebuild is on

 

[NikkiNoo]

The same could be said for Torney. But the rebuild is on

194cm > 187cm
25 yr old > 30 yr old

Ok if we take out Meesen and Hudson who we wanted to keep and consider that Mattner may still have been traded. That means that only players to go would have been

Riccuito - retire
Torney - delist
Hinge - not good enough
Perrie - too many others and age was against him
Bode - that fracture in his knee may mean he never plays again
Pfeiffer - most believe more to do with off field issues

That's only 6 players off the list.

Then I think that Gallman and Walker would have been upgraded still. So realistically we have only lost 4 players off the list.

4 - 5 draft picks are average for any team.

So I can't see that we call it a rebuild in light of that. Rebuild means that we decided this was the way to go but Messen and Hudson took those decisions out of our hands, if we had moved them on at our own instigation they I think you can call it a rebuild. To me it looks like normal list management.

 

[UL NVR WLK ALN]

Torney > Stevens

 

[macca23]

194cm > 187cm
25 yr old > 30 yr old

Ok if we take out Meesen and Hudson who we wanted to keep and consider that Mattner may still have been traded. That means that only players to go would have been

Riccuito - retire
Torney - delist
Hinge - not good enough
Perrie - too many others and age was against him
Bode - that fracture in his knee may mean he never plays again
Pfeiffer - most believe more to do with off field issues

That's only 6 players off the list.

Then I think that Gallman and Walker would have been upgraded still. So realistically we have only lost 4 players off the list.

4 - 5 draft picks are average for any team.

So I can't see that we call it a rebuild in light of that. Rebuild means that we decided this was the way to go but Messen and Hudson took those decisions out of our hands, if we had moved them on at our own instigation they I think you can call it a rebuild. To me it looks like normal list management.

With Roo's retirement Nikki, plus the trades and delists there are 9 players gone in one year.

When did we last do this number?

Torney's delistment speaks a thousand words.

IMO it's a rebuild - and one that we just had to have if we don't want to be the cellar dwellers from 2009 onwards.

 

[macca23]

A good article from Rucci in today's tiser on the same topic.

Believe me - we are re-building.


http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22575318-21543,00.html

Adelaide Crows sack seven
MICHELANGELO RUCCI
October 13, 2007 05:50pm

ADELAIDE is purging its list of dead wood, starting a long overdue youth policy to revive the AFL's oldest playing list.

The Crows last night sacked five senior-list players and two rookies:

JASON TORNEY, at 30, was the oldest of the seven players delisted - and the one whose popularity will create the greatest reaction from Adelaide's supporter base. He played 77 games for Adelaide after 118 with Richmond.

MATTHEW BODE, 28, was always at risk of being delisted after being cursed by injury. After a full season in 2002, the tenacious small forward has played just 53 of a possible 119 games.

IAN PERRIE, 28, who – while on holiday in his hometown in Perth – was told of his much-expected sacking by telephone yesterday.

He is unlikely to remain in Adelaide with SANFL football after playing 116 AFL games.

JOHN HINGE, 21, a tough defender who was elevated from the rookie list last year and played just one AFL game this year.

DARREN PFEIFFER, 20, who did not play an AFL game after being the No. 17 pick in the 2005 national draft from Norwood. Off-field issues worked against Pfeiffer's survival in the AFL.

Adelaide also dumped rookie-listed hopefuls Andrew McIntyre and James Turner. Fellow rookie, North Adelaide defender Greg Gallman, 19, and NSW scholarship holder, Broken Hill teenager Taylor Walker, 17, were promoted to the senior list.

Adelaide's decision to delist five senior list players overshadowed yesterday's finish to trading in which the Crows lost ruckmen Ben Hudson and John Meesen and defender Martin Mattner while claiming Port Adelaide half-back Brad Symes and key position player and part-time ruckman Brad Moran from the Kangaroos.



The sackings confirm – as detailed in The Advertiser on Wednesday – a major change in thinking at West Lakes.

Adelaide's list management committee has cast aside coach Neil Craig's policy of working with mature-age recruits to start a rebuilding policy with youth.

This was emphasised by Adelaide taking the long-term view in trade week when the Crows secured three top-30 draft picks – at No. 10, 27 and 30 – and the No. 38 call at next month's national draft.

Adelaide's list now has just five players aged 30 or older – impending captain Simon Goodwin (30), club champion Andrew McLeod (31), midfielder Tyson Edwards (31), defender Nathan Bassett (30) and ruckman Rhett Biglands (30) who is recuperating from major knee surgery which wiped out his participation in the past season.

Adelaide football operations manager John Reid last night anticipated Crows fans to react with bewilderment at the list management committee's decision, particularly with Torney. The club's challenge is to now sell its youth policy and rebuilding program.

"None of these were easy decisions," Reid said. "There was a lot of discussion at list management and you can make an argument for some of these players to stay on the list.

"Jason Torney had a good year. But if you look at how we're moving forward . . . if you forecast where we intend to take the list in two years' time . . . the decision had to be made. None of these decisions are ever made quickly or without a lot of thought.

"Some people will agree with our decisions. Some will not.

"We've lost nine players from our list (Torney, Bode, Perrie, Hinge, Pfeiffer, Meesen, Hudson, Mattner and captain Mark Ricciuto). We've gained four (Symes, Moran, Gallman and Walker). This gives us five picks in the national draft next month – and they are five picks which are better than any we have had before."

 

[Mong]

Stevens led AFCcontested marks and overall marks. States aren't everything, but that is significant. Also he did some pretty good jobs on some key defenders and kicked a lot of sneaky goals with great consistency. He isn't a star, but he's definitely worth persisting with.

And he is the successor to Nathan Bassett. I think he'd be seen as an important part of the team by the coaching staff.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I hear what you saying Macca23, 9 is a big number but i don't think the Torney decision speaks of a 'rebuild'...while he had a very solid season he is a 30yo HBF, not really a strange delisting (though i'd have given one more in view of who else stayed on list).

I'm with NN on this one, it's simply normal list management but it looks like a conscious decision to rebuild because a few blokes chose to leave, we made a 50:50 decision against a 30yo and our balance in previous years was slightly out of whack in terms of being conservative and keeping the squad together too much rather than a little more turnover.

 

[NikkiNoo]

With Roo's retirement Nikki, plus the trades and delists there are 9 players gone in one year.

When did we last do this number?

Torney's delistment speaks a thousand words.

IMO it's a rebuild - and one that we just had to have if we don't want to be the cellar dwellers from 2009 onwards.

9 went yes, but 4 came onto the list so that in reality it is only 5 player spots that need to be replaced via the draft. That is what I was getting at. If we did the 9 gone with no trading for like replacements and were just going to use the draft then that consitutes a rebuild in my mind.

But there is only 5 player spots to fill in the national and pre-season draft and if you look over the last two years we have not kept rookies past their 1st year, except Griffin.

Vaders post listing the draft spots available show that there are a couple of others clubs like us that also have a few spots available. The most being the Bulldogs with 8! Others with 5 or more are Melbourne and North Melbourne. With 4 places are brisbane, carlton, geelong, st kilda and west coast. Are people claiming that Bulldogs are rebuilding?

The Torney one I could see coming from his comments about thinking about whether he wants to play on and only being 50/50 about it. Plus once we drafted Symes in replace for Mattner who is more a defender than him and then Moran coming on and Gallman upgraded, then considering Torney's age, our policy in relation to 30 year olds and Massie's great form meant that I could see it coming.

Although I hoped like crazy that it wasn't going to happen, I was very sad when I heard JR as I was driving home, as I love my South boys, but I wasn't as shocked as are others around here.

 

[KUNG FU]

Torney > Stevens

I'd probably agree, but I also think Stevens will be delisted when he turns 30. In the mean time he'll be a very handy part of our list. Torney was a victim of circumstance. I'd still delist Jericho & Dogga every day of the week before Torney though. Probably Massie as well.

 

[Jars458]

A good article from Rucci in today's tiser on the same topic.

Believe me - we are re-building.

I prefer to see it as remodelling.

 

[relapse]

I'd probably agree, but I also think Stevens will be delisted when he turns 30. In the mean time he'll be a very handy part of our list. Torney was a victim of circumstance. I'd still delist Jericho & Dogga every day of the week before Torney though. Probably Massie as well.

I agree with you, but I think that Jericho, Massie and Doughty got saved by the fact that their contracts hadn't expired yet.

I would suggest that Massie and Doughty will be on the cut list already for next seaon

 

[Orange]

I agree Mcdermott's a tool

 

[out of order]

"This gives us five picks in the national draft next month – and they are five picks which are better than any we have had before."

and could of been even better if you had your head screwed on JR

 

[UL NVR WLK ALN]

I don't know, Maybe I see if differently to you all.

He may be handy for a little while but he'd have to be very expendable and I would hate for him to hold back the developement of a talented young defender.

Stevens that is.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Is this obsession with not saying we are rebuilding a little childish. Who cares. We are finally looking towards the future rather than stagnating in mediocrity.

Gutsy move by the AFC.

I'm excited.

 

[*PAF]

... This gives us five picks in the national draft next month – and they are five picks which are better than any we have had before."[/I]

Still have trouble understanding just what this quote is supposed to mean as it is something that seems to come up on a regular basis when talking Crows and drafting.
It sounds as if the AFC has been screwed by the AFL in the past when the reality is every team has been given the same number of picks in a draft apart from the perennial tankers getting a few more that is.
If the AFC has given away it's early picks then JR and Co should just put their hands up and say so for a change, not pass it off as if it was something beyond their control.

 

[out of order]

Still have trouble understanding just what this quote is supposed to mean as it is something that seems to come up on a regular basis when talking Crows and drafting.
It sounds as if the AFC has been screwed by the AFL in the past when the reality is every team has been given the same number of picks in a draft apart from the perennial tankers getting a few more that is.
If the AFC has given away it's early picks then JR and Co should just put their hands up and say so for a change, not pass it off as if it was something beyond their control.

all it means is we are a successful club and dont finish 12th much therefore dont get low picks and we happen to be excited to have them. not some angle u've put on it.

 

[*PAF]

all it means is we are a successful club and dont finish 12th much therefore dont get low picks and we happen to be excited to have them. not some angle u've put on it.

Well that is where it sound like whining for the sake of it.

Since 1997, ie 11 years, both the AFC and Port have received 11 first rounders each, AND 6 of those times the Crows have had better picks due to finishing lower as compared to 5 for Port, with neither team having ever received a priority pick.

Now the Crows have squandered their first rounders, fine shit happens, but nobody is willing to put their hands up and are trying to make it sound as if it wasn't their doing.

No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.

 

[out of order]

all he said is we're happy to have 5 picks in the top whatever it is. Nothing else.

You're the one who is whining for the sake of it

(on and i agree we've blown some picks but that wasnt his point)

 

[*PAF]

all he said is we're happy to have 5 picks in the top whatever it is. Nothing else.

You're the one who is whining for the sake of it

(on and i agree we've blown some picks but that wasnt his point)

Nah, run a search and see how many times the "not having had as many first round picks as other teams" comes up.
Fact is that is not the case and has never been the case.

 

[out of order]

so do u admit that wasnt his point this time though?

 

[*PAF]

so do u admit that wasnt his point this time though?

No, IMO it was just a continuation of the same theme and the same sort of stuff we are going to be forced to put up with over the next month with the politicians, spin doctoring.

 

[Mismatched]

Good article by Chris, and if true its good to see that JR is taking a hard stance, one that was needed. We had too many injuries last year to continue with older players who are injury prone, eg. Bode, Torney and Perrie.

Our list needed a little reinvigoration and I still think, whilst we are having some sort of a rebuild that we can challenge in 08. Craig got a few things wrong in his preparation and coaching this year and he will be burning to rectify it.

Last time we had a cull like this it was 96, that ended pretty well, this one is no where near as severe as that. Hopefully with a few new faces and a lot younger group a bit more enthusiasm can be found,

The crows have always been a dangerous side, with the ability to beat teams whilst being massive underdogs with a fairly regular occurance. Once again, like 05 and many other years, we will be underdogs going into this year and we will be hunters again after being hunted for 2 straight years.

Whilst we are rebuilding by the looks, I would still expect us to be challenging for a top 4 spot and if not definitely top 8.