I Really Think It's Time......

[Sainters08]

to move Rooey to the wing. That leaves Kosi to CHF and G-Train to FF.

he would be a very hard matchup for any team because of his size, engine etc.

I think Rossy should try it out against Essendon (don't think he will tho).

Lineup Vs. Essendon:

B: Brendon Goddard - Max Hudghton - Leigh Fisher

HB: Jason Gram - Matt Maguire - Sam Fisher

C: Nick Riewoldt - Nick Dal Santo - Leigh Montagna

HF: Charlie Gardiner - Justin Koschitzke - Adam Schneider

F: Stephen Milne - Fraser Gehrig - Xavier Clarke


FOLL: Steven King - Luke Ball - Lenny Hayes

INT: Michael Gardiner - David Armitage - Sam Gilbert - Robert Harvey

___________

INS: Michael Gardiner / Charlie Gardiner / David Armitage

OUTS: Aaron Fiora / Clint Jones / Jason Blake

If X doesn't come up, Geary/Fiora/Jones to come in.

If S.Fisher doesn't come up, R.Clarke/Blake to come in.

If Harvey doesn't come up, Geary/Fiora/Jones to come in.


Thoughts?

 

[WASaintsFan08]

why would clint jones be dropped? he did quite well on the weekend... his 1 percenters stopped a few goals..

they say it was our forward pressure that cost us the game... yet they werent paying marks in our forward.... or free kicks i screamed about 50 times in that game for free or mark... yet not paid.... then it streamed down too their forward line


i believe it was a good game and well contested by the boys but the dropped their heads around the ground when

1. umpires wouldnt do their bit
2. all we kick were behinds
3. we were playing injured players after cheap shots

 

[Sainters08]

why would clint jones be dropped? he did quite well on the weekend... his 1 percenters stopped a few goals..

they say it was our forward pressure that cost us the game... yet they werent paying marks in our forward.... or free kicks i screamed about 50 times in that game for free or mark... yet not paid.... then it streamed down too their forward line


i believe it was a good game and well contested by the boys but the dropped their heads around the ground when

1. umpires wouldnt do their bit
2. all we kick were behinds
3. we were playing injured players after cheap shots

ok thats fair enough..

but surely Fiora has to get dropped? he does absolutely nothing and its about time we bought a kid into the team.

 

[bubblegoose]

why would clint jones be dropped? he did quite well on the weekend...

He did ok. i was right behind his kick for goal, that was never going to go through the big sticks - but if it had - that would have been a big boost for him.

.... or free kicks i screamed about 50 times in that game for free or mark... yet not paid.... then it streamed down too their forward line

WASF - You obviously weren't screaming loud enough mate & I think it's about time you stood up and take some of the resonsibility here. It wasn't just the boys playing out there under natural light. We've all gotta accept some blame - you, me, the boot studder - OH MAN! DON"T START ME ON THE DAMN BOOT STUDDER!!!!

i believe it was a good game and well contested by the boys but the dropped their heads around the ground when

1. umpires wouldnt do their bit
2. all we kick were behinds
3. we were playing injured players after cheap shots

I'm not going to argue any of these points, but it wasn't just the cats that were putting pressure on us - we were putting ourselves under pressure situations, which is bloody disgraceful. Pressure > rushed disposal > turnover > cats capitalise. The cats have the skills that make the opposition pay for mistakes. It was not out of the Saints reach to really challenge the cats - but when we're kicking all those points or even - kicking it out on the full! we don't really give ourseleves a chance to even challenge for the win.

 

[Sir Robert]

Agree totally BBG.

Skills were shocking. Really hurt us. Plus umpire goals in the 2nd qtr as well as injured players from dirty pr!ck Geelong players... Where was our grunt? Am looking fwd to Bakes and M Gardiner coming back!

Birss I think should def be considered. Is a tough little nut and skills are not too bad.

Unfortunately for Blake, Dempster is really going to push him for his spot... I was pretty happy with Dempster Saturday (same can't be said for a few others). I think that 6 goal burst in the 3rd flattered Geelong... But it showed why they are premiers... They take games on!

Roo on a wing is a def winner tho. Double team him there... Lenny, Dal, Monty etc won't mind

Also Goddard or Gilbert fwd instead of Clarke... Essendons smalls are too quick for Goddard... Plus he can mark and can kick goals... No point having 3 quarter backs (S Fish and Gram)... Especially when one is in a back pocket chasing ppl all game.

 

[WASaintsFan08]

i agree there were alot of skill errors... we looked flat alot of the time

i shouldve screamed louder but its hard to hear me in Wa over there ^_^

the 1st quarter was worst for errors.. couldve put them on the ropes early but choked....

but atleast we didnt do as bad a fremantle.... and hopefully this time itll get lyon thinking of playing a better brand of footy.. changing the setup on ground completely maybe even resting either gehrig or kosi this week

stir the team up a bit...

 

[Qsaint]

why would clint jones be dropped? he did quite well on the weekend... his 1 percenters stopped a few goals..

they say it was our forward pressure that cost us the game... yet they werent paying marks in our forward.... or free kicks i screamed about 50 times in that game for free or mark... yet not paid.... then it streamed down too their forward line


i believe it was a good game and well contested by the boys but the dropped their heads around the ground when

1. umpires wouldnt do their bit
2. all we kick were behinds
3. we were playing injured players after cheap shots

He simply can't kick, our kicking efficency is woeful we simply can't carry anymore Jack Daniel types. Fiora can kick but he is just woeful

 

[WASaintsFan08]

niether can milne schnieder kosi atm yet theyre generally all in our forward line... riewoldt has had lots of kicking troubles in the last 2 years

but think he can kick... his only mistake was that shot at goal but milne did worse

what the team needs is more heart... not the ppl who give up when things dont go their way... like gehrig milnethey still make the cut... the only one that should be holding his spot out of them is riewoldt because he shows heart.... which is why i think jones shouldnt be dropped because ppl dont


if you keep giving it 100% good things will start happening
thats why harveys a legend in afl and st kilda

so like i said before mix up the team and tactics because what we're doing atm just isnt working

 

[ChrisL#12]

M Gardiner has just become extremely valuable for us. The two games he has missed we've lost the game. Both losses we've been in it early and then smashed in the middle when King gets tired. I think King had the better of Blake for the game overall but when Kosi was moved into the ruck Blake stepped up and the Cats got on top. Bulldogs did the same but the rucking wasn't as detrimental to us as it was this week.

We need M Gardiner back as soon as possible.

 

[bubblegoose]

M Gardiner has just become extremely valuable for us. The two games he has missed we've lost the game. Both losses we've been in it early and then smashed in the middle when King gets tired. I think King had the better of Blake for the game overall but when Kosi was moved into the ruck Blake stepped up and the Cats got on top. Bulldogs did the same but the rucking wasn't as detrimental to us as it was this week.

We need M Gardiner back as soon as possible.

In today's Age Chris ...

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/gardiner-out-again/2008/04/13/1208024993071.html

Gardiner out again

Carley Jellett | April 14, 2008

St Kilda ruckman Michael Gardiner will miss another match due to a calf injury and the Saints could also be without veteran Robert Harvey and pacy midfielder Adam Schneider when they take on Essendon at Telstra Dome on Friday night.

Gardiner has missed the Saints' past two matches and St Kilda football manager Matthew Drain said he needed another week's recovery.

Harvey sustained a corked thigh in a collision with teammate Justin Koschitzke and he is in some doubt. The 36-year-old returned to the field on Saturday against Geelong, but the club said he was restricted by the injury in the second half.

Schneider is a chance to play against the Bombers, but Drain said the club will not take any risks with the former Swan.

Essendon will be without midfielders Mark McVeigh and Sam Lonergan for about three weeks with hamstring injuries.

 

[Rough_Edges]

Riewoldt started on the wing vs. WB and we got spanked.

IT doesn't work.

As they play more often up forward, the better they will work together, it's round 4 girls...just relax.

It's a marathon, not a 100 meter sprint.

 

[sainter]

I can't understand why we would want to play him on a wing when the major criticism of his game is that he plays too far up the field. Opposition teams are almost prepared to allow him to mark the ball up the field because when he does that he's not doing any damage on the scoreboard.

I'd like to see Charlie come into the team and be that kind of forward and let Nick play as a key forward inside 50.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Riewoldt tore Tom Harley apart in the first quarter and a half. Was by far our most dangerous forward. Moving him would be doing Essendon a favour, just like when Freo played Pavlich in the midfield against Hawthorn.

Why do people continue to bag Clint Jones? He gives his all. His kicking is not the best but at least he gets the ball, unlike Fiora for example who can kick (yet missed a set shot he should have kicked) and fails to get the ball.

There were good patches on Saturday we just failed to take advantage of our opportunities.

I just hope the boys can get their goalkicking sorting out. We would have to be near the bottom of the ladder in terms of goalkicking efficiency which is pretty ordinary. Even players like Milne and Kosi who were both decent set shots previously are very hit or miss. This is a skill that needs to be addressed. Just imagine what people would have said about the Saints if we had kicked 16.13 instead of 13.16.

Does anyone know if the boys get out to Telstra Dome during the year and practice their goal kicking? If not...I would have thought it would have been mandatory. I know the AFL are tough on these things but c'mon surely they could get out there for an hour and get it sorted.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I am so with you on the Jones thing - I just don't get how you can criticise a young player playing with more fire in his belly than most of the veterans. Tackles and one-percenters were great, and c'mon, his disposal wasn't that bad by any stretch of the imagination. He missed a goal on a day when heaps do - and besides if he's a great player in many other ways except in front of goal, he'll remind me of another player, a Mister Robert Harvey, thank you very much.

Harvey will be rested this week, Schneider is still in doubt, and Fiora will be dropped, so looks like Jones, Birss and Armitage will all get a run - and may I say (with the exception of Harvey going) it's not before flipping time.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

IMO we have a really good list. The trouble with this is that sometimes a player who has done well will have to be dropped in favour of a player that has potential to do just a little bit better. I am very happy with the way that Jones is playing this year but I think that Schneider is more likely to produce a higher score at the end of the day.

 

[sauce_head]

Do not agree with moving him up the ground. His kicking is not great for that, he too often passes short to two on ones.

We need a lot of work on our forward line structure and the delivery of the ball - how and when. Fraser needs to lift his work rate and provide multiple leads. Working hard does not mean chasing down the ground, just chasing in the foward 50 and providing multile options.

 

[Squizz]

Do not agree with moving him up the ground. His kicking is not great for that, he too often passes short to two on ones.

We need a lot of work on our forward line structure and the delivery of the ball - how and when. Fraser needs to lift his work rate and provide multiple leads. Working hard does not mean chasing down the ground, just chasing in the foward 50 and providing multile options.

Totally agree with the Saucy-One.

Riewoldt is improving his set shots, but still can't kick the longer distances (yet) and watches the ball onto the boot (like a lot of the big blokes do)which doesn't allow him as much flexibility to adjust the kick (if someone is peeling off to make it a two-on-one).

I said last year that we have too many guys with technical flaws in their kicking for goal, and it is not evident that enough work is being done (aside from Riewoldt who is trying different things).

Gehrig was embarrasing on the weekend. It is one thing to be outplayed (again) by Scarlett, but he wasn't standing anywhere near him when Geelong had the ball. If he can't stand defensive side with touch on his man, then he will never be able to play well against the better teams. Inspector Gadget will shred his on Friday if he plays like that again.

 

[Sir Robert]

Riewoldt started on the wing vs. WB and we got spanked.

Weren't we up by 7 goals at quarter time? If he started on the wing as suggested it worked... And why was he moved forward to effectively see no more ball. Plus contra to a previous post his kicking in general play has always been class... It's just the jitters in front of goal letting him down.

2004 Riewoldt played up the ground and kicked into an open 50 with a leading G Train. Led the league in marks and won the players MVP. How is this forgotten?

I kind of hope he gets rested against Port so we don't see him struggling for the rest of the season like he was last week. Might make 1 J Koschitzke stand up as well.

 

[sauce_head]

Riewoldt started on the wing vs. WB and we got spanked.

Weren't we up by 7 goals at quarter time? If he started on the wing as suggested it worked... And why was he moved forward to effectively see no more ball. Plus contra to a previous post his kicking in general play has always been class... It's just the jitters in front of goal letting him down.

2004 Riewoldt played up the ground and kicked into an open 50 with a leading G Train. Led the league in marks and won the players MVP. How is this forgotten?

I kind of hope he gets rested against Port so we don't see him struggling for the rest of the season like he was last week. Might make 1 J Koschitzke stand up as well.

In 04 we had a totally different structure and he could put the ball into space. Now we have no space or swift movement forward.

Re my comment on his kicking. Watch the last quarter of teh Swans match for a few great examples in the last quarter of bad kicking. He plays his heart out but with his marking, lack of penetrating kick due to injury, he needs to get the ball close to goal or in a position to put it into space for a leading forward. This, again, requires better mid/forward structure. That is all that is stopping us getting it together.

 

[Kildonan]

Do not agree with moving him up the ground. His kicking is not great for that, he too often passes short to two on ones.

We need a lot of work on our forward line structure and the delivery of the ball - how and when. Fraser needs to lift his work rate and provide multiple leads. Working hard does not mean chasing down the ground, just chasing in the foward 50 and providing multile options.

Riewoldt is one of the hardest working CHF in the game. He plays using the advantage of his height when he can, but far more frequently he plays as a leading forward. His workrate will often wear out an opponent or two so the opposition clubs often rotate his direct opponent/s.

In order for Rewoldt to be most effective, he needs to be forward of the ball.
His ability to lose opponents and mark a low trajectory pass is lost if he is behind the ball and only effective for one quarter of the time if he is on a wing. He must go forward if we are to capitalise fully on his strength.

Well what can we do then when he is double / triple teamed?

Kick it to Kosi !! Kick it to Gehrig !!

Gehrig is a decent kick of the ball but Nick and Kosi have been disappointing.

Maybe we can counter the ordinary kicking skills of our key forwards by utilizing our better kicks from elsewhere. Maybe Dal, Schneider and Goddard can take turns in presenting as an option for goal.

Maybe our biggest problem has been that opponents force Nick outside his optimum kicking range. When he goes for extra yardage his accuracy suffers (as would anyone's) but Nick is the heart and soul of this club - if he misses a few then heads start to drop.

So far I reckon the Saints have been fairly good at getting shots at goal, but we're missing opportunities more frequently than our opponents.

Ignoring rushed points our scores v opponent scores

St K 06 15 Syd 06 12
St K 19 09 Car 12 11
St K 13 08 W B 19 10
St K 13 11 Gee 21 08
St K 51 43 Opp 58 41

which gives us 54% goals versus opposititions 59%

this doesn't sound too bad but the Carlton game inflates our stats and highlights our problem - against the other three opponents (good opponents who are all undefeated outside our match) our stats are poor.
__________________
St K 32 34 Opp 46 30

which gives us 48% versus good opponents 61%

Is it the superior defence of these good opponents that reduces our accuracy? Is it the overall superior intensity? Is it something else?

How can we compete with teams so even if our scoring accuracy is so low?

Why was our kicking superior against Carlton? Did we have more time? Was it confidence? or simply pressure?

 

[SAINTS 4 07 FLAG]

Clint Jones = Next Robert Harvey

 

[sauce_head]

I am very pro Roo, I just think we need him near goal. Yes, when he is against two or three, kick it to someone else. The forwards just need to instinctively understand where and when to run so that they may not interfere with each other, not be out of the play and know when to lead back, double back etc. This will benefit the crummers as well.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I really appreciate that analysis Kildonian - top notch work. In answer to your questions towards the end of the post, it can't be superior defense, because most of the time those shots are set-shots - short of waving their arms in a devastatingly effective manner, I can't see how the defender on the mark could affect our kicking for goal there. The fact is, set shots, particularly the ones 30m out only on a slight angle, etc, should be bread and butter for these professionals. And it has ceased to be Roo's problem alone (if it was, we could cite him as having a personal technique problem to fix) - now Kosi's got it too. The likelihood of two top-class players having the "yips" is highly unlikely, so it has to be something else. And that's why I keep coming back to John Barker. What is HE doing to fix this problem? It's a technical deficency with our forwards - it's his job to fix those kinds of problems.

 

[Squizz]

Watch on Friday - the Essendon players have become very clever at sneaking within 5m of a player having a set shot. Very often seem to be able to get away with it (if Milne tried it 50m would be instantaneous).

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Clint Jones = Next Robert Harvey

That's about as likely to eventuate as your user name.