Ibbotson

[Purple Lad]

Easts have the bye this week, so if Ibbo runs out anywhere it'll be for another reserves team. Or a fast track into the seniors.

I for one, am suspecting the latter. Harves has quoted previously that Ibbo 'comes up' quickly, whatever that means.

 

[Wizard]

Umm the whole Broughton / Ibbo discussion seems backwards to me, Ibbo is wasy more damaging with the ball and provides much better run.
Why do we want him shutting down to release an inferior runner?

 

[Avid_Avenger]

It's a pointless argument until we have our full backline in play. If we have Ibbo, Broughton, Mzungu and Duffield (possibly even Hayden) in the one side, someone is going to have to play a different position/role. Until then Broughton will be in the backline.

For everyone saying Broughton is average in the midfield check out the couple of games he played through there last year - was one of our best on ground, laying tackles, winning hard ball. He could clearly become another clever accumulator with a bit of grunt. That said, he's also a brilliant defender so that needs to be weighed up.

I'd firstly give Ibbo a go in the midfield and see how he goes. He's always going to be lazy at times but he appeared to turn the corner late last year so will reserve judgement until he plays. Said during preseason he'd been training to be an inside mid. I think the fastness/closeness of the midfield might actually help his awareness issues coz he mainly gets run down when he's in open space.

Finally, the reason we have Pav in the middle is becoz he provides grunt and clearances. Broughton can do this if Ibbo fails. Once we have Broughton, Mzungu, Duffield and Ibbo in the same team, I'd rather we robbed the backline of Broughton, than the forward line of Pav. The others can cover for Broughts adequately. None of our other forwards can cover for Pav.

And it's not like it has to be a permanent move! Anyone of Duff, Ibbo or Mzungu could swap with him if we need him to shut down a rampaging forward. And once Barlow's back up and running it won't be necessary anyway.

 

[creamygoodness]

I'm a big Ibbo fan, I think he comes straight in this week if he's fit. He's a good athlete and has a very good kick. Lacks awareness at times, but he's got a lot of talent. I thought he played really well last year off half back and I think his defensive skills improved a heap.

 

[Clay Davis]

I think this comes with people overrating offensive sides of the game versus defensive sides of the game.

Broughton is offensively better than Ibbo. Probably Duff as well. Both Ibbo and Duff provide more run, but their ball use and footy smarts aren't as good as Broughton's.

Broughton would be a good option to uses as an offensive mid - but you would be robbing one of our best defenders. To me, he could be as good as Corey Enright in defence.

I think it's similar to the McPharlin argument. Yes, McPharlin makes a decent key forward who can kick a bag occasionally, but he is so much better defensively that you're overall losing if you put him elsewhere.

 

[creamygoodness]

Duff is a better ball user than Broughton, there's a reason he takes every kick-in. Can kick precisely over 50 metres off either foot.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

I think this comes with people overrating offensive sides of the game versus defensive sides of the game.

Broughton is offensively better than Ibbo. Probably Duff as well. Both Ibbo and Duff provide more run, but their ball use and footy smarts aren't as good as Broughton's.

Broughton would be a good option to uses as an offensive mid - but you would be robbing one of our best defenders. To me, he could be as good as Corey Enright in defence.

I think it's similar to the McPharlin argument. Yes, McPharlin makes a decent key forward who can kick a bag occasionally, but he is so much better defensively that you're overall losing if you put him elsewhere.

I'm not saying do it permanently. Or even now. It can't happen until at least Ibbo is back in the side.

But IMO the team gains more overall in structural terms if we put Pav back in the forward line and Broughton into the midfield. Ibbo won't do the job of Broughton to the same level but that is a far smaller loss then Johnson/Kep replacing Pav as our number one KPF target. Especially if Broughts adopts a backward of centre mentality dropping back to help out defence and provide link up run, his defensive loss will be minimised and he would most probably offer more in the midfield than Pav does anyway.

Having said that, I don't think it will happen until Mzungu is back up and running, by which stage Barlow will hopefully be back and Pav can spend more time forward anyway. So like I said, due to players available, its a pointless argument.

 

[theGav56]

I think it's similar to the McPharlin argument. Yes, McPharlin makes a decent key forward who can kick a bag occasionally, but he is so much better defensively that you're overall losing if you put him elsewhere.

I agree with you about MacPharlin, except that I don't really think he makes a decent key forward. He is a decent pinch-hitter/swingman/mismatch-maker at best imo.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

I really think people are overrating tendai.... he hasnt even played a game yet. yes he played well in the practice matches, but that was against teams not playing at their strength. I mean we could only manage to be the chumps down the road, once our supposed form was horrible yet we are now 2-1 and shuold probably be 3-0... just shows that preseason form means absolutely zero.

I just think that people who think that mzungu is going to be some kind of saviour, given that he has never played a game of afl footy, and has been layed up for 12 weeks are out of their minds

 

[Avid_Avenger]

I really think people are overrating tendai.... he hasnt even played a game yet. yes he played well in the practice matches, but that was against teams not playing at their strength. I mean we could only manage to be the chumps down the road, once our supposed form was horrible yet we are now 2-1 and shuold probably be 3-0... just shows that preseason form means absolutely zero.

I just think that people who think that mzungu is going to be some kind of saviour, given that he has never played a game of afl footy, and has been layed up for 12 weeks are out of their minds

I wasn't saying he was a saviour (not sure anyone was?) but you don't recruit a 24-25 year old and not expect them to play. Whether he's a new Barlow or a new Lower, who knows. But he'll play (when fit) and he'll slot into that mix of half-back/mids which include Duff, Ibbo and Broughton. Possibly Hayden but big doubts with him.

Anyway, that's getting off point, my point was that if all four (or five) of them are in the same team they can't all play creative back flank/pocket roles, someone has to shift elsewhere. And Broughton is too good to simply play a lock down role.

 

[theGav56]

I really think people are overrating tendai.... he hasnt even played a game yet. yes he played well in the practice matches, but that was against teams not playing at their strength. I mean we could only manage to be the chumps down the road, once our supposed form was horrible yet we are now 2-1 and shuold probably be 3-0... just shows that preseason form means absolutely zero.

I just think that people who think that mzungu is going to be some kind of saviour, given that he has never played a game of afl footy, and has been layed up for 12 weeks are out of their minds

I don't know re Mzungu. We engineered an imaginative method to get him to the club for a reason. As a mature player I think it is our recruiting staff who have set the bench mark for rating him. And he has done nothing to show they were wrong.

 

[Clay Davis]

I agree with you about MacPharlin, except that I don't really think he makes a decent key forward. He is a decent pinch-hitter/swingman/mismatch-maker at best imo.

Yeah, true. He's good as a surprise key forward, take out that element, and he's quickly figured out.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

I wasn't saying he was a saviour (not sure anyone was?) but you don't recruit a 24-25 year old and not expect them to play. Whether he's a new Barlow or a new Lower, who knows. But he'll play (when fit) and he'll slot into that mix of half-back/mids which include Duff, Ibbo and Broughton. Possibly Hayden but big doubts with him.

saviour maybe not the right word, but the way people talk about him, he will win a brownlow this year in the second half of the year alone it seems a habit of many of ours on this board to build someone up and when they dont meet the unrealistic expectations everyone wants to jump on them..... i can almost garuantee that at some point this year, someone will call mzungu a flop. this minimalistic view shits me to tears, the same that has happened with palmer, and the same that will more than likely happen to barlow and morabito

Anyway, that's getting off point, my point was that if all four (or five) of them are in the same team they can't all play creative back flank/pocket roles, someone has to shift elsewhere. And Broughton is too good to simply play a lock down role.

I don't know re Mzungu. We engineered an imaginative method to get him to the club for a reason. As a mature player I think it is our recruiting staff who have set the bench mark for rating him. And he has done nothing to show they were wrong.

I agree gav, tendai looked great preseason, and the club worked hard to get him to the club for a reason, just wish people would stop talking as if he is a gun when he hasnt played an AFL game

 

[Avid_Avenger]

I agree gav, tendai looked great preseason, and the club worked hard to get him to the club for a reason, just wish people would stop talking as if he is a gun when he hasnt played an AFL game

Okay, fair enough. But Mzungu will play this year if he gets over his knee mid-season. Whether the injury inhibits his play or not is another thing. At some point, he'll get over it and you'd expect to see at least a Suban/Ibbo type output in terms of spread, run and stats. But he does have the potential to do much more than that.

When he does make it into the team we'll have plenty of similiar type players so I'm assuming they will chop and change roles/positions each week depending on the opposition.

But agree we should all wait and see before calling him a gun.

 

[yakamoto]

Ibbo's game is in one respect the antithesis of MJ's. Whereas MJ is often thinking about the next play before he takes possession,which sometimes causes him to mishandle, Ibbo most often takes possession and then decides what to do, which sometimes causes him to be run down. This gives one the impression that on occasions Ibbo has difficulty running and thinking at the same time. Has positives though, especially his athleticism and kicking depth. Coaches would in general want him in the team.

 

[kp junior]

Ibbo's game is in one respect the antithesis of MJ's. Whereas MJ is often thinking about the next play before he takes possession,which sometimes causes him to mishandle, Ibbo most often takes possession and then decides what to do, which sometimes causes him to be run down. This gives one the impression that on occasions Ibbo has difficulty running and thinking at the same time. Has positives though, especially his athleticism and kicking depth. Coaches would in general want him in the team.

Loved last week how Johnson was pointing at someone to go somewhere before taking possession in front of Adelaide's goal. Of course he managed to fall on his arse and hand them a goal, but the famous Johnson finger point was clearly evident.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

I'm not saying do it permanently. Or even now. It can't happen until at least Ibbo is back in the side.

But IMO the team gains more overall in structural terms if we put Pav back in the forward line and Broughton into the midfield. Ibbo won't do the job of Broughton to the same level but that is a far smaller loss then Johnson/Kep replacing Pav as our number one KPF target. Especially if Broughts adopts a backward of centre mentality dropping back to help out defence and provide link up run, his defensive loss will be minimised and he would most probably offer more in the midfield than Pav does anyway.

Having said that, I don't think it will happen until Mzungu is back up and running, by which stage Barlow will hopefully be back and Pav can spend more time forward anyway. So like I said, due to players available, its a pointless argument.

I agree. But, as you've said, a bit of a "hypothetical" until will get Silver, Zunga, Ibbo, Hayden and one of Barlow/Mora back...

I really think people are overrating tendai.... he hasnt even played a game yet. yes he played well in the practice matches, but that was against teams not playing at their strength. I mean we could only manage to be the chumps down the road, once our supposed form was horrible yet we are now 2-1 and shuold probably be 3-0... just shows that preseason form means absolutely zero.

I just think that people who think that mzungu is going to be some kind of saviour, given that he has never played a game of afl footy, and has been layed up for 12 weeks are out of their minds

No-one has said he will be a saviour, but by **** he is better than Schammer, Pearce, JVB or Hinkley... And, just quietly, I personally think Tendai will be our second or third best medium defender after Broughton and (maybe, but only if he kicks it up a gear) Duffman...

I don't know re Mzungu. We engineered an imaginative method to get him to the club for a reason. As a mature player I think it is our recruiting staff who have set the bench mark for rating him. And he has done nothing to show they were wrong.

Exactly. I have faith they know how good Tendai is.

Okay, fair enough. But Mzungu will play this year if he gets over his knee mid-season. Whether the injury inhibits his play or not is another thing. At some point, he'll get over it and you'd expect to see at least a Suban/Ibbo type output in terms of spread, run and stats. But he does have the potential to do much more than that.

When he does make it into the team we'll have plenty of similiar type players so I'm assuming they will chop and change roles/positions each week depending on the opposition.

But agree we should all wait and see before calling him a gun.

I just can't agree with the bit in purple.

Even if we had our entire squad fully fit and in stunning form, there are actually fairly few players who can genuinely play multiple positions around the ground against a range of opposition teams.

Yes, an Ibbo may occasionally be an option in a forward role against a Richmond or Norfs. That doesn't mean we have plenty of similar type players. If a Balla, Mayne, Barlow, Mora, Hill, Broughton, Pav, Sandi or Fyfe go down with injury, we just don't have anyone who can replace them.

One of the true wonders of our current developing squad is how our recruiters have managed to recruit a spread of different types of players who are each genuinely skilled at, and yet also ideally suited to, individual roles in a complimentary 22 man team structure. Sadly, we don't yet have the true depth to be able to "replace" any of our key 22, hence the impact of Mora and Barlow's loss.

Ibbo's game is in one respect the antithesis of MJ's. Whereas MJ is often thinking about the next play before he takes possession,which sometimes causes him to mishandle, Ibbo most often takes possession and then decides what to do, which sometimes causes him to be run down. This gives one the impression that on occasions Ibbo has difficulty running and thinking at the same time. Has positives though, especially his athleticism and kicking depth. Coaches would in general want him in the team.

You really do rate MJ, and by crikey you go to many lengths to make excuses for him. MJ is a great disappointment, and needs to pull his finger out and put in some effort over the next 20 weeks if he really wants a genuine AFL career. As opposed to Ibbo, who has less talent, but works his guts out every game and training session. And avoids laneways.

That said, Ibbo's current level of development is beautifully summed up by the conecpt of him being "unable to always run and think at the same time". Sometimes he has great vision, sometimes not. He will improve with continued AFL exposure, and I personally think he will actually get much better in the next two years.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

I agree. But, as you've said, a bit of a "hypothetical" until will get Silver, Zunga, Ibbo, Hayden and one of Barlow/Mora back...



I just can't agree with the bit in purple.

Even if we had our entire squad fully fit and in stunning form, there are actually fairly few players who can genuinely play multiple positions around the ground against a range of opposition teams.

Yes, an Ibbo may occasionally be an option in a forward role against a Richmond or Norfs. That doesn't mean we have plenty of similar type players. If a Balla, Mayne, Barlow, Mora, Hill, Broughton, Pav, Sandi or Fyfe go down with injury, we just don't have anyone who can replace them.

One of the true wonders of our current developing squad is how our recruiters have managed to recruit a spread of different types of players who are each genuinely skilled at, and yet also ideally suited to, individual roles in a complimentary 22 man team structure. Sadly, we don't yet have the true depth to be able to "replace" any of our key 22, hence the impact of Mora and Barlow's loss.

You've misunderstood my post. As I was saying higher in my post, once Ibbo, Duff, Broughton, Mzungu, even Suban and possibly Hayden are all in the same side, they can't all play the same position which up until this point in their careers as mainly been half-back. Given they are similar type players I assume that they'll chop and change between half back and midfield depending on opposition. Otherwise someone will be permanently shifting to another position.

I wasn't meaning we have a team full of similiar players, just that we will have too many half back/back pocket players when all fit (if that ever happens) and one or two of them will have to play different roles if they all want to play in the same team.

 

[samseenee]

Ibbo looks likely this weekend:

Star ruckman Aaron Sandilands is expected to face the Kangaroos on Sunday, while important utility Garrick Ibbotson, who joined Crowley at Bullcreek Leeming Junior Football Club for a clinic on Wednesday afternoon, is also expected to return from an ankle injury.

http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7009/newsid/111606/default.aspx

Good news!

 

[prattsta]

Ibbo looks likely this weekend

Ibbo will play for East Fremantle. Guaranteed. He hasn't played competitive a game of football since our final against Geelong in September...

 

[theGav56]

If a Balla, Mayne, Barlow, Mora, Hill, Broughton, Pav, Sandi or Fyfe go down with injury, we just don't have anyone who can replace them.

I see it differently; if they go down we have to replace them, so who is it going to be? Without saying we can replace their uniqueness as individual players;

Balla; son-son can replace him.

Mayne; deBoer can become the marking/defensive forward who struggles to kick goals.

Barlow; Tough, but given our recruiting we have a fair range of midfield contributors. Lower at the moment is replacing him and doing well in the side.

Mora; Pavlich has replaced him if the plan was as most posters expected for Pavlich to play forward. If Mzungu was available I think he would have replaced him and Pav forward. Or Mz back, and Broughton midfield combo.

Broughton; Mzungu or Lower.

Pavlich; He would only be replaced by a combo of players worked into a gameplan; JA, Morabitto, Lower, Mzungu.

Sandilands; Griffin.....gulp.

Fyfe; Pitt

But you are never going to have players waiting in the wafl or rookie list to cover your best players. Your B-graders get called on, and your next generation get opportunities.

 

[Belele]

Ibbo will play for East Fremantle. Guaranteed. He hasn't played competitive a game of football since our final against Geelong in September...

Didnt he come straight in last year after 8 or so weeks off with a collarbone? Won't be surpised if he plays WAFL though, as this time it's foot related so may have affected his fitness base more with less running during rehab.

 

[prattsta]

Didnt he come straight in last year after 8 or so weeks off with a collarbone? Won't be surpised if he plays WAFL though, as this time it's foot related so may have affected his fitness base more with less running during rehab.

Last season he played in rounds 1 & 2. It was only 6 weeks between games, not 7 months like it is now.

Just compare Hill/Mundy with de Boer. In terms of base fitness, de Boer completed far more of the pre-season work. However, given the time of his injury he wasn't able to play in any of the NAB Cup games. Whereas Hill/Mundy got back in time for the practice games. Who ended up playing in round 1 of the season proper, and who ended up having a week in the WAFL?

Ibbotson will be rusty as all buggery. He should be given a game in the WAFL to get some touch back. Fitness is not the issue IMO.

 

[SH Tracer Bullet]

I would be keen for IBBO to be used as the sub for the game. Sure he may be rusty, but the pace of the game is the big difference, bring him in the second half and the issues may not be as highlighted.

 

[Moo]

Ibbo looks likely this weekend:



http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7009/newsid/111606/default.aspx

Good news!

Wow - seems like Mundy was right on the money when we had lunch this week.