Ideas to better the AFL

Jul 2, 2010
37,953
36,136
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
I was explaining the WA model & comparing it with Vic footy - I am a real critic of the way the MCC management of the ground was extended, not going to public tender.

Is there nothing that can improve the AFL in your mind?

I understand the criticism of the lack of tender, but the MCC has an unbroken connection with the ground going back 160 years, with considerable investment of its own in the place, Im not opposed to it as long as they arent ripping off the clubs or the AFL. When nearly 70% of all match day income is returned back to the clubs and league, that strikes me as a reasonable arrangement.
 
Jan 26, 2006
40,446
31,699
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
East Fremantle
I reckon a correctly structured AFL commission is the right body to make that decision.

The AFL cares about the AFL.

The SANFL cares about the SANFL.

The WAFC is better because it is seperate to the WAFL.

If the AFL commission cared about the interests of the traditional football states than Tasmania would have an AFL team.

I trust the AFL about as much as I trust Canberra.
 
Jan 26, 2006
40,446
31,699
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
East Fremantle
Why are WA's grassroots players more important than NSW's, Vic's, Tas' etc?
Why should that matter at all?
This sort of partisan, barracking, stuff is exactly why the national body needs to control the game.

WAFC ain't gunna do jack for the good of the game past their borders.

Because I'm Western Australian?

Why should the WAFC do anything past its borders?
 
Mar 17, 2009
21,636
17,319
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Because I'm Western Australian?

Why should the WAFC do anything past its borders?

Quite right. The WAFC needs to monitor & protect footy in WA. The AFL Tas organisation are too close to the Victorian AFL. The local game is in serious decline & is constantly kicked around at the whim of administrators who only think of appeasing those in Head office, Victoria.
 
The AFL cares about the AFL.

The SANFL cares about the SANFL.

The WAFC is better because it is seperate to the WAFL.

If the AFL commission cared about the interests of the traditional football states than Tasmania would have an AFL team.

I trust the AFL about as much as I trust Canberra.

And here I think is representative of our fundamental disagreement.

The AFL, acting in the best interest of the game, elected to expand the game into larger markets which can in the long term make a greater return TO THE GAME than Tassie can.

It's not the romantic choice (a Tassie side), but it was the RIGHT CHOICE. So much so in fact, that no one with any real sense of the issue can truly make a solid argument FOR Tasmania at the expense of GC or GWS.

With all due respect to yourself (because I appreciate the passionate response and discussion); your responses which are very WA centred, and of the belief that only a WA commission can look after the game correctly in WA mean that you are the type of person I referred to when I said "even when a decision is unpopular". It might not be popular, but it is the right thing to do.

And only an all encompassing governing body not hindered by borders can make that sort of decision.

The WA and SA football authoritiesare not necessarily a hindrance to the game, but they CAN be; and thats why I think as independant bodies they need to go (incorporated is a better word).
 
May 30, 2006
17,516
10,292
Canberra
AFL Club
North Melbourne
The AFL cares about the AFL.

The SANFL cares about the SANFL.

The WAFC is better because it is seperate to the WAFL.

If the AFL commission cared about the interests of the traditional football states than Tasmania would have an AFL team.

I trust the AFL about as much as I trust Canberra.
I disagree on that point. My home state will not be in a position where it can support an AFL side unless the very fundamentals of the Australian economy are drastically reversed.
But if the AFL cared for the game and noy judst the AFL it would not have played a part in tearing down the old TFL, installing the Devils debacle, and would have long ago stepped in to get rid of the management team of AFL Tasmania. Instead, so long as Wade and his cronies do what the AFL tell them
If the AFL cared for anything beyond the AFL, the VFL would be its own league and not just a dumping ground for AFL players who can't make the main team, with proud clubs nothing more than reserves for other clubs.

While I wouldn't have a problem with a national oversight body, that body would have to be indepencdent from the AFL. WA and SA footy are strong precisely because they can manage their own affairs with minimal interference from the AFL. Tasmanian footy is dead for a number of reasons, the largest being that the state is a purely regional and impoverished economy; but also largely to do with mismanagement (at times seemingly deliberate and at AFL insistence) locally, and partly to do with the AFL having both supporting and encouraging the worst aspects of local management and also through their own interference.
 
Mar 17, 2009
21,636
17,319
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
And here I think is representative of our fundamental disagreement.

The AFL, acting in the best interest of the game, elected to expand the game into larger markets which can in the long term make a greater return TO THE GAME than Tassie can.

It's not the romantic choice (a Tassie side), but it was the RIGHT CHOICE. So much so in fact, that no one with any real sense of the issue can truly make a solid argument FOR Tasmania at the expense of GC or GWS.

With all due respect to yourself (because I appreciate the passionate response and discussion); your responses which are very WA centred, and of the belief that only a WA commission can look after the game correctly in WA mean that you are the type of person I referred to when I said "even when a decision is unpopular". It might not be popular, but it is the right thing to do.

And only an all encompassing governing body not hindered by borders can make that sort of decision.

The WA and SA football authoritiesare not necessarily a hindrance to the game, but they CAN be; and thats why I think as independant bodies they need to go (incorporated is a better word).

I am infavour of the strategy of expansion. I may have done it differently, but it is a correct strategy IMO. The problem for me is the obvious Victorian Bias in the league structure. I dont believe one should compare the GWS/GC as an alternative position to a Tasmanian team.
I believe the gross inequity comes from too many Victorian teams who are having to sell games to try to survive in an over saturated market for a so called national league.
As I've said it is an biased decision making process. Victorian dominated, at the expense of a proper national league.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
I understand the criticism of the lack of tender, but the MCC has an unbroken connection with the ground going back 160 years, with considerable investment of its own in the place, Im not opposed to it as long as they arent ripping off the clubs or the AFL. When nearly 70% of all match day income is returned back to the clubs and league, that strikes me as a reasonable arrangement.

A different argument for another time* BUT the AFL must not allow its powerful clubs to rip its poor cousins - when the current deals reach their use buy date, the sweetheart stadium deals for the Pies & the Bombers should come back under one deal done by the AFL in the absence of anyone representing Vic footy. This alone should cause fans of Vic footy to consider its relationship with the AFL.

* the Yarra Park deal brokered by the State Govt pays the extra $100k per game flowing to home games, not any largesse by the MCC even though its seeks the plaudits.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
Those who dont understand why WA needs its independence & wont give it up easily need to remember the only WA based AFL commissioner got the DCM for having views that were not acceptable to Messrs Elliot & McGuire. No rep from WA for nearly 10 years leads thinking people to question the Vic centric approach to the national comp.

How many Commissioners were appointed over those years?
 
Oct 3, 2007
16,084
17,344
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
West Perth
I think it would be welcomed by all if there was a seperate independent body that ran football the nation wide. And that includes the AFL.
The AFL are their own league and therefore can never run football nation wide when there first and only mandate is their own league.

An Independent commission represented by one person from all states, should look after football the country wide, handle all rule changes and game formats etc and every league under them would follow suit based on a real representative vote from all states. The state of Victoria would have like every other state one representative.

Until this happens I hope that the WAFC run football in WA forever.
 
Jan 26, 2006
40,446
31,699
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
East Fremantle
And here I think is representative of our fundamental disagreement.

The AFL, acting in the best interest of the AFL, elected to expand the game into larger markets which can in the long term make a greater return TO THE GAME than Tassie can.

It's not the romantic choice (a Tassie side), but it was the RIGHT CHOICE. So much so in fact, that no one with any real sense of the issue can truly make a solid argument FOR Tasmania at the expense of GC or GWS.

With all due respect to yourself (because I appreciate the passionate response and discussion); your responses which are very WA centred, and of the belief that only a WA commission can look after the game correctly in WA mean that you are the type of person I referred to when I said "even when a decision is unpopular". It might not be popular, but it is the right thing to do.

And only an all encompassing governing body not hindered by borders can make that sort of decision.

The WA and SA football authoritiesare not necessarily a hindrance to the game, but they CAN be; and thats why I think as independant bodies they need to go (incorporated is a better word).

If we get an independent body such as Australian Football Commission which was seperate and independent of the AFL then it would be a lot better.

Otherwise you are suggesting that the WAFC should just kill itself for no benefit to WA football.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,953
36,136
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
I think it would be welcomed by all if there was a seperate independent body that ran football the nation wide. And that includes the AFL.
The AFL are their own league and therefore can never run football nation wide when there first and only mandate is their own league.

An Independent commission represented by one person from all states, should look after football the country wide, handle all rule changes and game formats etc and every league under them would follow suit based on a real representative vote from all states. The state of Victoria would have like every other state one representative.

Until this happens I hope that the WAFC run football in WA forever.

Thats and all well and good, but who is going to fund this national football coouncil deal. It wont be the AFL - which already funds development and football in 5 of 7 states, and contributes to the others. The AFL isnt going to let a national council tell it what to do - its how we lost the council in the first place. Development funding is typically though AFL sponsors who benefit from the leagues television and media exposure. Things a national council would not have.
 
Jan 26, 2006
40,446
31,699
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
East Fremantle
Thats and all well and good, but who is going to fund this national football coouncil deal. It wont be the AFL - which already funds development and football in 5 of 7 states, and contributes to the others. The AFL isnt going to let a national council tell it what to do - its how we lost the council in the first place. Development funding is typically though AFL sponsors who benefit from the leagues television and media exposure. Things a national council would not have.

So I guess the WAFC and SANFL should remain independent.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
they should until its no longer viable for them to do so. That doesnt mean they - particularly the SANFL - get to screw over their AFL clubs. Sooner or later that will backfire on them

Got to agree re the SA situation - are the Croweaters in neutral because they believe Adelaide Oval will solve all their problems, 'fraid so.
They are going to have both the SANFL & SACA competing with the clubs for members *, freeloading on AFL footy.

* neither body have a stand alone product worth membership, just like the MCC.
 

footscore

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 1, 2012
9,168
4,222
AFL Club
Geelong
Kids play section allocated at each ground so us adults can get sloshed, swear and carry on while the kiddies enjoy life's simple pleasures under strenuous surveillance of course.

Introduce suburban footy into the VFL competition and we already have at least one team (Frankston Dolphins) who are not full-time professional athletes but seem to do alright.
Imagine a league like that of English soccer where your local footy club is part of the VFL and get the opportunity to play a Geelong, Box Hill, Collingwood or Bullants.

Construct a massive roof over the top of the MCG :D
Would cost a country but the long-term gains would be incredible with excessive crowd numbers during winter etc.

Every stadium should have those portable toilets congregated outside the grounds so it at least minimizes the ridiculous time it takes to queue up waiting to have a leak (can only imagine how frustrating it is for women).
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
they should until its no longer viable for them to do so. That doesnt mean they - particularly the SANFL - get to screw over their AFL clubs. Sooner or later that will backfire on them

Look at the 2nd tier comp in Vic - how many changes have occured over the past 10 years & its on again today. Those pushing total AFL control of footy need to look at this mess:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-tents-standoff-20120620-20oju.html

The AFL have done a lot right, but the 2nd tier in Vic remains a revolving door, flip/flop ... giving one club a reserves team & not addressing the issue even statewide is hardly the stuff of good management.
 
Aug 16, 2006
23,383
2,327
My house
AFL Club
Essendon
Those who dont understand why WA needs its independence & wont give it up easily need to remember the only WA based AFL commissioner got the DCM for having views that were not acceptable to Messrs Elliot & McGuire. No rep from WA for nearly 10 years leads thinking people to question the Vic centric approach to the national comp.

How many Commissioners were appointed over those years?
Apart from the current chairman, obviously. And Graeme John, who was there until last year.
 
Mar 17, 2009
21,636
17,319
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Thread is "ideas to better the AFL".
Given that rather obvious piece of information, I assumed you may have grasped it was about the national league, & game, rather than one state's interests.

Then the thread should be "ideas to better Australian rules football".
It is clear that what benefits the AFL is not necessarily to the benefit of the game as a whole. The total self interest of the AFL organisation is blatant.
The community level of the game that provides opportunity for health, fitness, social inclusion is clearly not in a good state. The AFL are only concerned with commercial opportunity, professional pathways, & encouraging people to sit & home & watch their product on the TV.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,953
36,136
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Look at the 2nd tier comp in Vic - how many changes have occured over the past 10 years & its on again today. Those pushing total AFL control of footy need to look at this mess:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-tents-standoff-20120620-20oju.html

The AFL have done a lot right, but the 2nd tier in Vic remains a revolving door, flip/flop ... giving one club a reserves team & not addressing the issue even statewide is hardly the stuff of good management.

The AFL didnt take ownership of AFL Victoria until last year. Its in their annual report for 2011.
 
Aug 16, 2006
23,383
2,327
My house
AFL Club
Essendon
Then the thread should be "ideas to better Australian rules football".
It is clear that what benefits the AFL is not necessarily to the benefit of the game as a whole. The total self interest of the AFL organisation is blatant.
How about people post about what the thread's about? And if they've something to say regarding a different topic, they contribute to a thread on that topic?
Is it that hard to scroll down half a page?
{Probably the AFL's fault}
 
Mar 17, 2009
21,636
17,319
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
How about people post about what the thread's about? And if they've something to say regarding a different topic, they contribute to a thread on that topic?
Is it that hard to scroll down half a page?
{Probably the AFL's fault}

My point is that the short sighted approach the AFL has adopted will ulimately affect them negatively.
I see the local community based game is under stress & threat like never before. The community level of Australian rules provides a critical mass of players, officials & volunteers that are a potential strength for the game & another pathway/resource for the professional game. Until only a few years ago that was the only pathway to the big leagues. The AFL tries to develop its own pathways & basically ignore the community game ( or pay lip service to it) Reducing the size & benefits the community game provides will undermine even the AFL in time.
Dont get me wrong, I believe in a strong vibrant professional game, but it shouldnt strangle the very roots it comes from.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,953
36,136
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
The AFL began appointing members to the board of the VFA/VFL when it began to derive most of its funding from the AFL, by the time VFL alignments with AFL clubs became common (after the VSFL was abolished) many VFA clubs were damn near broke or had folded due to AFL dominance in the Melbourne market but not due to its control.

Splitting the under 18s into a seperate competition (the TAC Cup) may have played a far bigger part in this than people realise. You take the best under 18 talent out of the former VFA/VFL clubs and theres no follow through in development.

SA and WA never had to compete with two big leagues. There was always the SANFL and the WAFL at the top of the tree until the late 80s and 90s, and even now due to limited AFL teams, there is still an undercurrent of popularity in the state leagues of those comps. In Victoria you had over a century of VFL v VFA competition, including legal protections enable to protect the VFA.

Market forces were always going to play a part when the AFL hit the big time and began to get better coverage in Melbourne, as well as the VFA losing its right to exclusivity on Sundays when the VFL expanded to Sydney. Sponsor dollars follow the best product. TV dollars followed the VFL. Crowds follow the best teams and players.

The VFL/AFL didnt kill the VFA through control. The VFA kind of imploded because of an inability to compete though.
 
Back