Ideas to better the AFL

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Slattery_20

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My point is that the short sighted approach the AFL has adopted will ulimately affect them negatively.
I see the local community based game is under stress & threat like never before. The community level of Australian rules provides a critical mass of players, officials & volunteers that are a potential strength for the game & another pathway/resource for the professional game. Until only a few years ago that was the only pathway to the big leagues. The AFL tries to develop its own pathways & basically ignore the community game ( or pay lip service to it) Reducing the size & benefits the community game provides will undermine even the AFL in time.
Dont get me wrong, I believe in a strong vibrant professional game, but it shouldnt strangle the very roots it comes from.
They basically bankroll every level of football in the country, provide development help, guidance, employ community engagement people to help, and so on.
There clearly is a pathway for guys to come from local/country leagues, to 2nd tier comps, to the AFL - judging off the numbers recruited, that pathway is as strong as it's been for 20+ years.
I appreciate that as a giant of the market, they have almost a monopoly, but I really do think they're doing as much as can be expected.
Comparing local footy club finances to equivalent local cricket, or any other sport, there's simply no comparing.

What the hell else are they meant to do?
 

pazza

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Love the idea on clash jumpers - put simply, Essendon's must be a red jumper with a black sash, red shorts and black socks with red trim - except when we play Sydney where our normal attire is sufficient for their matches.

I think the need for a countdown clock at the grounds might be the next move.

If we are to utilise goal line technology then we simply must put cameras in the goal and behind posts - let's utilise the knowledge that was gained by channel 9 and stumpcam - if a camera lens and feed can go in something that's an inch wide, it candefinitely go into a larger surface such as goal or behind post, as they are much wider.

We must bring back zoning. 1 pick in every draft is for a locally zoned player (say round 4). This pick cannot be traded away. Money from the AFL and clubs goes into local development, in those zones.
 

The_Reaper

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Love the idea on clash jumpers - put simply, Essendon's must be a red jumper with a black sash, red shorts and black socks with red trim - except when we play Sydney where our normal attire is sufficient for their matches.

I think the need for a countdown clock at the grounds might be the next move.

If we are to utilise goal line technology then we simply must put cameras in the goal and behind posts - let's utilise the knowledge that was gained by channel 9 and stumpcam - if a camera lens and feed can go in something that's an inch wide, it candefinitely go into a larger surface such as goal or behind post, as they are much wider.

We must bring back zoning. 1 pick in every draft is for a locally zoned player (say round 4). This pick cannot be traded away. Money from the AFL and clubs goes into local development, in those zones.
Give every club a zone. They can take one player from their zone each year and have bids like the current FS rule.

Does help the smaller clubs build support.
 

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pazza

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Give every club a zone. They can take one player from their zone each year and have bids like the current FS rule.

Does help the smaller clubs build support.
I'd do it this way under current teams:

Adelaide - Southern Suburbs of Adelaide/South-Eastern South Australia
Brisbane - Northern Queensland/Northern Territory
Carlton - North and North-Eastern Victoria
Collingwood - North-Eastern Melbourne Suburbs/Northern New South Wales
Essendon - Wimmera/Mallee
Fremantle - Kalgoorlie/South-west Coast/Southern Perth
Geelong - South Western Victoria/Geelong and Surf Coasts
Gold Coast - Suburban Brisbane/South-Eastern Queensland
Greater West Sydney - Western Sydney Suburbs/Canberra
Hawthorn - Gippsland/Yarra Ranges
Melbourne - Inner Melbourne Suburbs/Central Highlands
North Melbourne - North-Western Melbourne Suburbs/Western New South Wales
Port Adelaide - Northern and Eastern Adelaide Suburbs/Northern South Australia
Richmond - Eastern Melbourne Suburbs/Tasmania
St.Kilda - Southern Melbourne Suburbs/Mornington Peninsula
Sydney - Northern, Southern and Eastern Sydney Suburbs/Riverina
West Coast - Northern Perth/Northern Western Australia
Western Bulldogs - Western and South-Western Melbourne Suburbs/Ballarat-Goldfields
 

The_Reaper

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I'd do it this way under current teams:

Adelaide - Southern Suburbs of Adelaide/South-Eastern South Australia
Brisbane - Northern Queensland/Northern Territory
Carlton - North and North-Eastern Victoria
Collingwood - North-Eastern Melbourne Suburbs/Northern New South Wales
Essendon - Wimmera/Mallee
Fremantle - Kalgoorlie/South-west Coast/Southern Perth
Geelong - South Western Victoria/Geelong and Surf Coasts
Gold Coast - Suburban Brisbane/South-Eastern Queensland
Greater West Sydney - Western Sydney Suburbs/Canberra
Hawthorn - Gippsland/Yarra Ranges
Melbourne - Inner Melbourne Suburbs/Central Highlands
North Melbourne - North-Western Melbourne Suburbs/Western New South Wales
Port Adelaide - Northern and Eastern Adelaide Suburbs/Northern South Australia
Richmond - Eastern Melbourne Suburbs/Tasmania
St.Kilda - Southern Melbourne Suburbs/Mornington Peninsula
Sydney - Northern, Southern and Eastern Sydney Suburbs/Riverina
West Coast - Northern Perth/Northern Western Australia
Western Bulldogs - Western and South-Western Melbourne Suburbs/Ballarat-Goldfields
I would try to align clubs with the existing state league and TAC Cup systems.

For instance in WA, West Coast would be responsible for East Perth, Perth, Subiaco, Swan Districts and West Perth.
Fremantle would be responsible for Claremont, East Fremantle, Peel and South Fremantle (the East Fremantle zone is by far the best in WA. Both their metro zone and their country zone (Geraldton) were rated in the top 10 zones in Australia last year.
Possibly switch around with some metro zones to even up population.
 

pazza

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I would try to align clubs with the existing state league and TAC Cup systems.

For instance in WA, West Coast would be responsible for East Perth, Perth, Subiaco, Swan Districts and West Perth.
Fremantle would be responsible for Claremont, East Fremantle, Peel and South Fremantle (the East Fremantle zone is by far the best in WA. Both their metro zone and their country zone (Geraldton) were rated in the top 10 zones in Australia last year.
Possibly switch around with some metro zones to even up population.
That was a thought, but, I also took into account historical zones (Essendon with the Wimmera, Carlton with Bendigo, Melbourne with areas like Prahran), local zones (Bulldogs with Footscray, Williamstown, Sunshine and Werribee, Geelong with itself) and like you have with the WAFL too, to a point.
 

The_Reaper

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That was a thought, but, I also took into account historical zones (Essendon with the Wimmera, Carlton with Bendigo, Melbourne with areas like Prahran), local zones (Bulldogs with Footscray, Williamstown, Sunshine and Werribee, Geelong with itself) and like you have with the WAFL too, to a point.
Victoria should correspond to historical zones, adjusted to make them even.

I'd also suggest affiliating Hawthorn and North Melbourne with Tasmania given that they are playing games there.

Possibly let the murray go to one of the NSW teams to bolster their zones.
 

madmug

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They basically bankroll every level of football in the country, provide development help, guidance, employ community engagement people to help, and so on.
There clearly is a pathway for guys to come from local/country leagues, to 2nd tier comps, to the AFL - judging off the numbers recruited, that pathway is as strong as it's been for 20+ years.
I appreciate that as a giant of the market, they have almost a monopoly, but I really do think they're doing as much as can be expected.
Comparing local footy club finances to equivalent local cricket, or any other sport, there's simply no comparing.

What the hell else are they meant to do?
The AFL 'took' control of football, they eliminated other bodies such as the ANFC, & thus has set itself up as the keeper of the game. They hardly 'bankroll' every other level of football in the country.
I would expect the AFL to do a lot. Especially in the area of community football.
The Pathway through community football was nearly destroyed by the AFL when they spent millions to set up & run the u18 club system to the virtual exclusion of the traditional club system. Only recently have they begun to redress that mistake/imbalance. I think they have a long way to go.
Cricket clubs get assistance to run grade cricket through the state bodies under the Cricket Australia banner. They receive funds to develop players & help with administration. They have no where near the same resources but they do a fair job. They also allow state & test cricketers to play for their clubs when available.
I could'nt care less about other sports.
 

Kwality

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Apart from the current chairman, obviously. And Graeme John, who was there until last year.
Neither have lived in WA recently - Graeme John came East in the early 60s & I saw Fitz's last game for Subi in the mid 70s.

Are you serious suggesting they represent WA interests?

Ron Evans spent a few years in WA playing for West Perth - not relevant like Graeme John or Fitz.
 

Slattery_20

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Aug 16, 2006
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The AFL 'took' control of football, they eliminated other bodies such as the ANFC, & thus has set itself up as the keeper of the game. They hardly 'bankroll' every other level of football in the country.
I would expect the AFL to do a lot. Especially in the area of community football.
Lots of grants, for development, for juniors equipment, etc etc. As far as I know, more than cricket gets (and I assume other sports).

The Pathway through community football was nearly destroyed by the AFL when they spent millions to set up & run the u18 club system to the virtual exclusion of the traditional club system. Only recently have they begun to redress that mistake/imbalance. I think they have a long way to go.
I don't know that they did anything like that, at all.
There's been guys from "alternative pathways" - be that mature guys from state leagues, or from park footy or whatever - all the way through the draft era. Never anything stopping clubs from doing it, they just chose to go with 18s more often than not.
The rule that all rookies had to be under 21 (or whatever it was) was a poor one, I admit, and certainly put a cap on guys 'making it' at a later age, but that's been about the only major change in that area as far as I know.

Cricket clubs get assistance to run grade cricket through the state bodies under the Cricket Australia banner. They receive funds to develop players & help with administration. They have no where near the same resources but they do a fair job.
The budget for at least a few melbourne suburban footy clubs is 10-50 times that of their local cricket club.

There is plenty of money filtering down into grass roots football, at least in Melbourne (and I suspect the bigger country leagues are the same, not sure about out in the real sticks). If anything, too much money (unsustainable in the long run).
 

madmug

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Lots of grants, for development, for juniors equipment, etc etc. As far as I know, more than cricket gets (and I assume other sports).


I don't know that they did anything like that, at all.
There's been guys from "alternative pathways" - be that mature guys from state leagues, or from park footy or whatever - all the way through the draft era. Never anything stopping clubs from doing it, they just chose to go with 18s more often than not.
The rule that all rookies had to be under 21 (or whatever it was) was a poor one, I admit, and certainly put a cap on guys 'making it' at a later age, but that's been about the only major change in that area as far as I know.


The budget for at least a few melbourne suburban footy clubs is 10-50 times that of their local cricket club.

There is plenty of money filtering down into grass roots football, at least in Melbourne (and I suspect the bigger country leagues are the same, not sure about out in the real sticks). If anything, too much money (unsustainable in the long run).
When the AFL set up the u18's those kids were taken out Of community football & put into an elete stream.
It affected club football, especially where I come from. Many of them never kicked on in footy after the u18's. They thought they were special & would be drafted. A lot of them gave up. They were never part of a club & lost touch with club footy. It has changed a bit now. For the better I think (hope).
A lot of damage has been done to local footy by the dominance of the AFL machine. The AFL give money (I dont know, maybe a million or so) to the local AFL Tasmania. That money pays for office staff, cars, trips & accommodation & helps with the Elite u16 & u18's.
SFA goes into club footy operational costs. Most TSL clubs get 50k for development, community schools & junior programs. The AFL use to do it but now pay a lot less for clubs to do it now.
That is nothing compared to what the AFL actually take out of the state.
I see the AFL are now starting to cut loose from the VFL alignments. They once needed them, now they will kill them off like they did with the VFA.
Thats caring about grass roots isnt it!
 

The_Wookie

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Jul 2, 2010
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When the AFL set up the u18's those kids were taken out Of community football & put into an elete stream.
It affected club football, especially where I come from. Many of them never kicked on in footy after the u18's. They thought they were special & would be drafted. A lot of them gave up. They were never part of a club & lost touch with club footy. It has changed a bit now. For the better I think (hope).
A lot of damage has been done to local footy by the dominance of the AFL machine. The AFL give money (I dont know, maybe a million or so) to the local AFL Tasmania. That money pays for office staff, cars, trips & accommodation & helps with the Elite u16 & u18's.
SFA goes into club footy operational costs. Most TSL clubs get 50k for development, community schools & junior programs. The AFL use to do it but now pay a lot less for clubs to do it now.
That is nothing compared to what the AFL actually take out of the state.
I see the AFL are now starting to cut loose from the VFL alignments. They once needed them, now they will kill them off like they did with the VFA.
Thats caring about grass roots isnt it!
To be fair though, under the old system pre TAC CUp, these under 18s would likely have been playing for AFL clubs under 19s and reserves (those were the days).
 

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madmug

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To be fair though, under the old system pre TAC CUp, these under 18s would likely have been playing for AFL clubs under 19s and reserves (those were the days).
Yes Clubs in the VFL, SANFL, WAFL, TFL etc had u19's. Those young guys were associated with the reserves & Senior players & learned a lot from them, about footy, about life & being in a club with volunteers & supporters. The elite u18 kids have been cocooned away from those experiences. It was like they went to school all day & then went to footy school in the afternoon. Thats not necessarily the best way to grow up & mature.
Much of that learning experience was lost in the AFL's attempt to vertically integrate their recruiting & development programs. That is, to divorce them from community football.
I recon its taken them 15 years or so to wake up to the problem of isolating those kids & trying to pick winners out of 15-16 year olds.
I think the balance, at least in Tassie is better now, but elitism still exists & the money stays with it!!!
 

Kwality

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Happy to acknowledge the work done by the AFL generating the money, it doesnt follow that they are best group to oversee junior development & foster country footy.

I'm yet to see a case for the way footy is run in Vic that can justify it taking over WA footy.
It channels young footballers into the elite comp versus WA footballers of the same age that playing WAFL, seconds or U 18s, less opportunity for late developers? There are kids playing WAFL that cant get a gig in the U18 squad.

Many seem keen on zoning, its gone in the way of the steam roller in Vic, alive & well in WA.

Anyone got a case for the AFL?
& talking about the AFL, & given the demonstrable reluctance to appoint WA based Commissioners, when will it follow the WAFC example and appoint an indigenous Commissioner:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/wafl/12385499/footy-all-rounder-blazes-a-new-trail/

Good multicultural news story in the WAFL today:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/wafl/14018867/mugambwa-soars-to-100-as-murphy-quits/
& a bit of history
http://www.wafootball.com.au/news-archive/360-mugambwas-wow-factor-has-him-heading-for-league
 

The_Wookie

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Jul 2, 2010
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Happy to acknowledge the work done by the AFL generating the money, it doesnt follow that they are best group to oversee junior development & foster country footy.

I'm yet to see a case for the way footy is run in Vic that can justify it taking over WA footy.
It channels young footballers into the elite comp versus WA footballers of the same age that playing WAFL, seconds or U 18s, less opportunity for late developers? There are kids playing WAFL that cant get a gig in the U18 squad.

Many seem keen on zoning, its gone in the way of the steam roller in Vic, alive & well in WA.

Anyone got a case for the AFL?
& talking about the AFL, & given the demonstrable reluctance to appoint WA based Commissioners, when will it follow the WAFC example and appoint an indigenous Commissioner:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/wafl/12385499/footy-all-rounder-blazes-a-new-trail/

Good multicultural news story in the WAFL today:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/wafl/14018867/mugambwa-soars-to-100-as-murphy-quits/
& a bit of history
http://www.wafootball.com.au/news-archive/360-mugambwas-wow-factor-has-him-heading-for-league
The situation in Victoria is vastly different to anywhere else in Australia. The've effectively tried to meld not one but two state level leagues into one. Instead of Academies and Reserves AFL victoria effectively uses the TAC Cup and VFL for its development and backup. Because the VFL/VFL board wanted its own independence its primary source of revenue became the annual fees for AFL clubs to run reserves teams, until they agreed to an AFL funding model.

In SA and WA the systems was different, the SANFL and WAFL have always been dominant until the late 80s and 90s when AFL teams took some of the shine. SA has struggled with this ever since, while the WAFL has almost certainly struck a perfect balance. AFL teams - > WAFL - > WAFL teams -> metro and country zones. It helps that the WAFL salary caps are more realistic and affordable than the SA one.

The system the AFL uses elsewhere in ACT/NSW/QLD/NT is quite effective for development netween the state, NEAFL and various club and indigenous acadamies.

Ive always supported the idea that Victorian AFL teams should be levied in a way similar to the WA teams for the benefit of state football. In fact given Hawthorn and North Melbournes presence in Tasmania it makes it even better, since 8 Melbourne teams would adequately provide funds for support for AFL Victoria, while levies from the other two would quite happily support Tasmania.
 

The_Reaper

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The situation in Victoria is vastly different to anywhere else in Australia. The've effectively tried to meld not one but two state level leagues into one. Instead of Academies and Reserves AFL victoria effectively uses the TAC Cup and VFL for its development and backup. Because the VFL/VFL board wanted its own independence its primary source of revenue became the annual fees for AFL clubs to run reserves teams, until they agreed to an AFL funding model.

In SA and WA the systems was different, the SANFL and WAFL have always been dominant until the late 80s and 90s when AFL teams took some of the shine. SA has struggled with this ever since, while the WAFL has almost certainly struck a perfect balance. AFL teams - > WAFL - > WAFL teams -> metro and country zones. It helps that the WAFL salary caps are more realistic and affordable than the SA one.

The system the AFL uses elsewhere in ACT/NSW/QLD/NT is quite effective for development netween the state, NEAFL and various club and indigenous acadamies.

Ive always supported the idea that Victorian AFL teams should be levied in a way similar to the WA teams for the benefit of state football. In fact given Hawthorn and North Melbournes presence in Tasmania it makes it even better, since 8 Melbourne teams would adequately provide funds for support for AFL Victoria, while levies from the other two would quite happily support Tasmania.
An interesting point is that football in WA is run by the WAFC and not the WAFL whereas the SANFL runs football in SA.

The SANFL cares mainly about itself which is why it is driving Port Adelaide to death.
The WAFC as an independent body is more capable of finding a good balance.
 

Slattery_20

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I would try to align clubs with the existing state league and TAC Cup systems.

For instance in WA, West Coast would be responsible for East Perth, Perth, Subiaco, Swan Districts and West Perth.
Fremantle would be responsible for Claremont, East Fremantle, Peel and South Fremantle (the East Fremantle zone is by far the best in WA. Both their metro zone and their country zone (Geraldton) were rated in the top 10 zones in Australia last year.
Possibly switch around with some metro zones to even up population.
I don't like the idea that every area has to be a zone.
You'll end up with clubs having vast tracts. What you've said above for WCE & Freo would be something like 10-15% of the entire draft pool every year. Likewise I don't necessarily think it's 'right' that Ess had Essendon AND Wimmera AND Ringwood as zones.

WCE should have an area around Subiaco or Perth itself (or wherever they want to call home). Freo should have, obviously, Fremantle.
Adelaide one area of Adelaide. Port another. Etc etc.
Geelong would have Geelong or an area around there (certainly not the entire Geelong Falcons catchment)
The Melbourne clubs would each have a wedge of Melbourne's suburbs out in that direction.
Etc etc.
You'd work out the zone borders so each one would have a similar cut of draftees (based off the stats of the previous 5-10 years of drafting).


And you'd have to keep a pretty tight rein on the shenanigans that went on (guys suddenly moving to a different zone etc). Very hard to police. Draft has cleaned a lot of these things up. Not entirely sure we want to see them brought back.
 

pazza

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Match review panel and reporting changes.

I think we are all sick to death of the inconsistencies in reports. Not to mention how many match-day reports being thrown out.

So it is time to streamline the process.

If an umpire lays a report, then this report is not reviewed by the MRP and should be treated seruiously enough to be heard by the Tribunal.

If no match day reports are laid, then the MRP may choose to act if necessary.

Further, each report has a mandatory minimum sentence, with only a player's prior good or bad record then taken into account and not before hand. For example - striking is 2 weeks, kicking 6 weeks etc.

Injury reports are not to be used/considered in the laying or a report, but maybe used as weight in sentencing after deliberations.
 

Kwality

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I don't like the idea that every area has to be a zone.
You'll end up with clubs having vast tracts. What you've said above for WCE & Freo would be something like 10-15% of the entire draft pool every year. Likewise I don't necessarily think it's 'right' that Ess had Essendon AND Wimmera AND Ringwood as zones.

WCE should have an area around Subiaco or Perth itself (or wherever they want to call home). Freo should have, obviously, Fremantle.
Adelaide one area of Adelaide. Port another. Etc etc.
Geelong would have Geelong or an area around there (certainly not the entire Geelong Falcons catchment)
The Melbourne clubs would each have a wedge of Melbourne's suburbs out in that direction.
Etc etc.
You'd work out the zone borders so each one would have a similar cut of draftees (based off the stats of the previous 5-10 years of drafting).


And you'd have to keep a pretty tight rein on the shenanigans that went on (guys suddenly moving to a different zone etc). Very hard to police. Draft has cleaned a lot of these things up. Not entirely sure we want to see them brought back.
Have you checked out the Swans/Pilbara link ?
Did the sponsors attract your eye?
Its about the community, the development, diddly squatt with each one would have a similar cut of draftees - Slatts, zoning is much much more than what AFL clubs get out of it - & still we have people like you in denial, denial that leaving WA footy in its well managed hands, rather than centralising control for no gain.
 

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